View Full Version : "Best trained Savannah monitor"
Corey209
03-28-13, 04:22 AM
s0FremXnnak
Do you think this Sav is actually trained?
Pirarucu
03-28-13, 06:07 AM
Not at all. It associated its owner and noise with food, most monitors do. The guy could say anything else and the Sav would have done exactly the same thing.
It is also dead now.. Surprise surprise.
smy_749
03-28-13, 06:19 AM
I had someone use him as proof that you can house different species together, (he had a blackthroat,savannah, and numerous iguanas in a shed system in his yard)...Curious as to how that works considering they are all from different environments. His blackthroat seemed very lethargic, and the only way to prove he responded to his own name would have been to show him NOT coming when you call "come on george" or something, and I'm sure he would have still came running because he doesnt understand the difference, its just an 'alarm' for food, and even if he did understand he would probably have came and stole georges food anyways hahaha
From what I've learned here, this guys husbandry practices are pretty horrible, especially in the vids where he lets his savannahs roam around in 40/50 degree weather/rain and thats actually how it died, because it was out in the cold and he forgot about it or something.
stephanbakir
03-28-13, 06:55 AM
I have a friend up in Canada with some odd husbandry for his trio of savs, they are about 9 years old though so I guess it works?
He has a 10X10X8 with at least 3 feet of that 8 being soil, heated enclosure in his garage, not what I'd call ideal but the hotspot reads around 160F, ambient ranges from 70 to 90 depending on where you go, he feeds them scraps of meat (hes a butcher) and bone meal + dubias.
The really odd part is that his enclosure is connected to the outside world (yes, we live in canada so we have have 5 feet of snow), the enclosure maintains its temp and during the winter they just dont go outside, but in the summer you see them in his yard all the time...
It's not what I'd call ideal, but some people truly believe their methods work. (his animals are not obese, like the one in this video)
Re-training. I agree with the above statements, I tested it with my sav last year, started singing random songs and included his name in the lyrics, he came running.
Corey209
03-28-13, 07:12 AM
This guy claims to be one of the first breeders of blackthroats and green iguanas in the US...
stephanbakir
03-28-13, 07:31 AM
Weren't iguanas Tom crutchfield? or was that albino iguanas?
smy_749
03-28-13, 07:47 AM
Weren't iguanas Tom crutchfield? or was that albino iguanas?
Yea I believe crutchfield was the first for albinos, I remember him having his breeding pair of adults up for something like 100 g's a few years ago.
Whats the big deal if you breed iggies though? They do just fine in floridas wilderness, so how hard could it be to breed them, you can just put a screen box around them if you live in miami and that would probably do the job...
Blackthroats I would imagine are a bit more difficult. About the savannahs, I can't explain it but yea, seems hes doing something right.
infernalis
03-28-13, 08:00 AM
Breeding animals is not "difficult", it's nature.
any bafoon can put a male and female animal in a box, once the female ovulates, nature takes over.
It's what happens next that requires some brains.
smy_749
03-28-13, 08:05 AM
Breeding animals is not "difficult", it's nature.
any bafoon can put a male and female animal in a box, once the female ovulates, nature takes over.
It's what happens next that requires some brains.
Yea when you put it like that it makes the whole word breeder sound funny, nobody is physically breeding the male to the female haha, I guess the proper thing to say is 'Successfully hatched healthy babies from captive animals'
Want to sell some SHHBFCA Ackies :smug:
infernalis
03-28-13, 08:48 AM
I have been on enough boards for some years now. The one that sticks in my mind the most was a young man who captured 2 wild garter snakes, he kept them in a 5 gallon bucket he got at work. The female had babies, and suddenly "bucket man" was posting on the breeder boards.
Didn't last long... a lot of people said exactly what I just did.
Ugh, I saw these videos awhile back when someone tried using them to 'prove' to me that multiple species of monitors could be kept together also. The videos are so annoying because he keeps repeating the animals names about a thousand times and still doesnt get the fact that they arent responding. I suppose if you keep the animals barely alive then they dont have the energy to kill each other. This is a great video to show people just how resilient reptiles are to terrible conditions.
Stephan, what you are describing seems perfectly logical. That keeper provides them with the gradient and they choose which part of it they use and when. Obviously they have access to much cooler temperatures than they would are adapted to, and the animals are smart enough to know not to use it. Now if he only gave them a single light bulb with a low basking temp like the guy in this video, that wouldnt work. However, your friend provides a high basking temp like they need, and deep humid soil that they need, and then leaves it up to the animal to regulate itself.
infernalis
03-28-13, 10:58 AM
Sadly, Dave seems to be a "celebrity" on youtube and facebook.
Maybe, I should make a video, I will open the cage and say "toyota" 35 times and see if my monitors come out looking for food.
Sadly, Dave seems to be a "celebrity" on youtube and facebook.
Maybe, I should make a video, I will open the cage and say "toyota" 35 times and see if my monitors come out looking for food.
hahaha, dont forget to put your hand out as if youre holding food. Oh I mean, that has nothing to do with it of course ;)
Squirtle
03-28-13, 12:51 PM
Although I fully agree that some of Dave's monitors attention is triggered by the food, I still believe that it has some training with going to Dave when it's called. I believe he has some videos of his lizards coming to him without using food.
R.I.P Gale :(
Gale was not his only lizard today in 2012. I believe that 2 iguanas also died back in December.
smy_749
03-28-13, 01:14 PM
They froze to death. Monitors are lizards of habit, whether he had food is irrelevant, they already associated the call with feeding. If they don't get fed once or twice, they won't erase the habit. What would happen if he called him persistently and never fed him. Thats the real question.
Another thing is to watch how slow and sluggish they are, that is anything but the normal. If you don't believe me just watch infernalis's videos and see how much thinner and energetic they are. Also his blackthroat barely moves in ALL of his videos. If he does, its in slow motion.
Squirtle
03-28-13, 03:24 PM
Also, Corey, I don't think he ever claimed to be "the best monitor and iguana keeper ever", I think he mentioned his iguana holding the world record for eggs laid, which was at about 55 or so eggs.
infernalis
03-28-13, 03:29 PM
They froze to death. Monitors are lizards of habit, whether he had food is irrelevant, they already associated the call with feeding. If they don't get fed once or twice, they won't erase the habit. What would happen if he called him persistently and never fed him. Thats the real question.
Another thing is to watch how slow and sluggish they are, that is anything but the normal. If you don't believe me just watch infernalis's videos and see how much thinner and energetic they are. Also his blackthroat barely moves in ALL of his videos. If he does, its in slow motion.
I couldn't agree with you more.....
When I try and tell people that a healthy monitor should not be keen on laying on a person while watching TV, I get flak for it.
My little beasties run all over exploring everything, yes sometimes the pace is casual, but the moment I pick one up, the squirming begins.
I think that seems more "normal" for a wild animal.
smy_749
03-28-13, 04:40 PM
I couldn't agree with you more.....
When I try and tell people that a healthy monitor should not be keen on laying on a person while watching TV, I get flak for it.
My little beasties run all over exploring everything, yes sometimes the pace is casual, but the moment I pick one up, the squirming begins.
I think that seems more "normal" for a wild animal.
Oh well, people won't understand that, and the ones with the skittish monitors are the bad keepers. The "tame" ones are much better kept, so we should all keep our monitors,iguanas,dogs and sheep in the same enclosure. Speaking of that, on "another" forum, someone recently posted that hes new and has a water monitor (which the youtube gale dude also had, which also died) and a green iguana in the same cage, and was hoping to cross breed them......
infernalis
03-28-13, 04:45 PM
http://www.thamnophis.co/forums/headbang.gif
Pirarucu
03-28-13, 05:23 PM
Sadly, Dave seems to be a "celebrity" on youtube and facebook.
Maybe, I should make a video, I will open the cage and say "toyota" 35 times and see if my monitors come out looking for food.Unfortunately, he does. People worship him..
That would actually be pretty interesting. (And eye opening to the less informed..) Just call them by their names to make it look like they're "trained" and then call them by ridiculous names to show that it's not a response to their names.
infernalis
03-28-13, 05:30 PM
next video session........
crocdoc
03-28-13, 09:19 PM
I had my male lace monitor trained to come for food at one stage. I'd feed the female in the enclosure first and would then call the male over. I had to delay the reward (the food) by adding steps between him coming to me and finally getting fed. Consequently I'd call him over, put him into the enclosure, go get the food and then feed him. If I didn't do that, he'd just run over biting and there would be blood everywhere. As it turns out, he started to short-cut anyway. He started off knowing he had to be in the enclosure before getting fed (and would usually look up at the enclosure, tongue flicking, waiting to be lifted up, or even trying to climb up the outside of the enclosure), but eventually he knew the routine well enough that he started getting food on his mind before I picked him up, so I had to pick him up very carefully to avoid getting bitten. Then I gave the whole idea up, as it was too dangerous.
Although he definitely knew he was being called for food (I'd clap my hands at the same time as calling him), it was more the tone of my voice than what I was saying and I could probably have said anything.
You can see this at 0:17 in this video:
7NIOeF2ICmo
Wayne, can you please fix this. The youtube link NEVER works for me.
I had my male lace monitor trained to come for food at one stage. I'd feed the female in the enclosure first and would then call the male over. I had to delay the reward (the food) by adding steps between him coming to me and finally getting fed. Consequently I'd call him over, put him into the enclosure, go get the food and then feed him. If I didn't do that, he'd just run over biting and there would be blood everywhere. As it turns out, he started to short-cut anyway. He started off knowing he had to be in the enclosure before getting fed (and would usually look up at the enclosure, tongue flicking, waiting to be lifted up, or even trying to climb up the outside of the enclosure), but eventually he knew the routine well enough that he started getting food on his mind before I picked him up, so I had to pick him up very carefully to avoid getting bitten. Then I gave the whole idea up, as it was too dangerous.
Although he definitely knew he was being called for food (I'd clap my hands at the same time as calling him), it was more the tone of my voice than what I was saying and I could probably have said anything.
You can see this at 0:17 in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NIOeF2ICmo
Wayne, can you please fix this. The youtube link NEVER works for me.
don't enter the web url just enter the 7NIOeF2ICmo
e.g.
7NIOeF2ICmo
Oh well, people won't understand that, and the ones with the skittish monitors are the bad keepers. The "tame" ones are much better kept, so we should all keep our monitors,iguanas,dogs and sheep in the same enclosure. Speaking of that, on "another" forum, someone recently posted that hes new and has a water monitor (which the youtube gale dude also had, which also died) and a green iguana in the same cage, and was hoping to cross breed them......
I keep getting crap from my family about why I don't touch my monitors. They think I'm a bad owner because I "neglect" them lol. I just enjoy watching them, I'm not looking for a dog.
crocdoc
03-28-13, 10:38 PM
don't enter the web url just enter the 7NIOeF2ICmo
Thanks for the tip! Why hasn't anyone explained this to me before. Let me try that out.
More monitor training (old video - they're much better at this now):
PxeB8kYPP0A
It works! You rock, nepoez!
DeadlyDesires
03-29-13, 01:50 AM
Sadly, Dave seems to be a "celebrity" on youtube and facebook.
Maybe, I should make a video, I will open the cage and say "toyota" 35 times and see if my monitors come out looking for food.
lol all i have to do is open my cage and my monitor can smell the air or something and comes running out of his borrow for some food
infernalis
03-29-13, 06:49 AM
lol all i have to do is open my cage and my monitor can smell the air or something and comes running out of his borrow for some food
Same here... I tried to make a video last night, but the moment I walked in and opened the door, they were waiting for me.
infernalis
03-29-13, 07:05 AM
I watched the whole video this morning, Wish I had not. Fillet and bacon??? who in the hell feeds fillet and smoked pork to a monitor??
I guess slim Jims and jerky snacks are on the menu too?
RyanReptile
03-29-13, 07:13 AM
I had my male lace monitor trained to come for food at one stage. I'd feed the female in the enclosure first and would then call the male over. I had to delay the reward (the food) by adding steps between him coming to me and finally getting fed. Consequently I'd call him over, put him into the enclosure, go get the food and then feed him. If I didn't do that, he'd just run over biting and there would be blood everywhere. As it turns out, he started to short-cut anyway. He started off knowing he had to be in the enclosure before getting fed (and would usually look up at the enclosure, tongue flicking, waiting to be lifted up, or even trying to climb up the outside of the enclosure), but eventually he knew the routine well enough that he started getting food on his mind before I picked him up, so I had to pick him up very carefully to avoid getting bitten. Then I gave the whole idea up, as it was too dangerous.
Although he definitely knew he was being called for food (I'd clap my hands at the same time as calling him), it was more the tone of my voice than what I was saying and I could probably have said anything.
You can see this at 0:17 in this video:
7NIOeF2ICmo
Wayne, can you please fix this. The youtube link NEVER works for me.
You are so fortunate to be able to work with lace monitor, they are such beautiful animals :)
Pirarucu
03-29-13, 09:05 AM
So that's how you embed.. Dave, I never get tired of seing videos of your two, what are the dimensions on that cage?
Super ugly monitors, as always David. ;)
Ya, thats how a healthy monitor moves when it sees food, not that sluggish overweight depressingly sick thing that Durham has.
infernalis
03-29-13, 10:45 AM
p2Fg-S1YuV4
Mark Taylor
03-29-13, 12:56 PM
That's brilliant but I think someone was trying to skype you :laugh:
Squirtle
03-29-13, 01:51 PM
p2Fg-S1YuV4
Are those yours? Wow, they've gotten huge! Last time I saw them was when you first got them, exactly a year ago. :shocked:
DeadlyDesires
03-29-13, 03:56 PM
wayne, how come your enclosure looks empty?
infernalis
03-29-13, 04:50 PM
wayne, how come your enclosure looks empty?
It's the vantage point, looking down on the dirt mound. Spring is almost here, they will have grass again soon. They dig it up, destroy and bury it.
DeadlyDesires
03-29-13, 06:18 PM
It's the vantage point, looking down on the dirt mound. Spring is almost here, they will have grass again soon. They dig it up, destroy and bury it.
aaahh ok, i was just wondering :D cause i have seen it with a lot more stuff lol
crocdoc
03-29-13, 08:46 PM
So that's how you embed.. Dave, I never get tired of seing videos of your two, what are the dimensions on that cage?
Thanks! It's 2.4 x 2.4 x 1.2m
It could be much larger and they'd still use all of it. :(
smy_749
03-29-13, 10:30 PM
This may be a stupid question, so just a warning :-P
Why can't you just keep your lacies in an outdoor enclosure? Not the right part of Australia? Also I know you guys don't get imports of reptile species from other countries generally, but what restrictions is there on catching wild caught native species and keeping them in captivity?
infernalis
03-30-13, 12:21 AM
It could be much larger and they'd still use all of it. :(
I feel the same exact way, every time I look in on my kids.
crocdoc
03-30-13, 06:08 PM
This may be a stupid question, so just a warning :-P
Why can't you just keep your lacies in an outdoor enclosure?
Oh gee, I'd never thought of that before ;)
Seriously, though, I'd LOVE to house them outdoors and will do so one day, but the place I own doesn't have a back yard.
what restrictions is there on catching wild caught native species and keeping them in captivity?
It's illegal in my state so the hobby is strictly supplied by CB animals, which I think is a good thing.
In other states, permits can be obtained to capture a limited number of animals from the wild to introduce into the hobby.
If you saw monitors in the wild and how active they are, the idea of putting one into captivity is abhorrent for it would be tantamount to torture. CB animals have never experienced the wild, so it's a bit less tortuous for them, but they still know they are locked up and will try to escape if they can. As they get older, though, and you let them out, they'll voluntarily return to their enclosures to bask.
smy_749
03-30-13, 06:23 PM
Ah gotcha.
So are you against WC in the hobby, if the option of CB is not available? Like most of the indo species in America.
crocdoc
03-30-13, 09:21 PM
So are you against WC in the hobby, if the option of CB is not available? Like most of the indo species in America.
If anything, I'm even more against WC in the hobby in places where the animals don't occur natively, such as America.
Here if WC were allowed it would just be the odd animal taken and it would only affect the individual animals (the extent of the effect would depend on the species), but when you have an import industry you are adding several other factors: It starts with people whose motivation to capture animals will be high enough that there may be some habitat destruction involved (breaking open rock crevices or hollow logs, cutting down small trees to get the animals down) and who aren't overly worried about overcollection, as their livelihood may be at stake. Then there's the death toll from transportation in substandard conditions, followed by languishing in a reptile importer's warehouse. The survivors end up in a pet store, where the staff don't know how to look after them and then, finally, most end up being bought by new keepers with no experience that buy them because they're inexpensive compared to other, CB, species. A huge percentage of them are dead before long.
Big death toll, no recruitment. I've been on these monitor forums for over 12 years and every year there's a dozen new keepers who post about how they are going to 'break the mould' and be the pioneers of producing CB Indo monitors of the indicus complex, particularly doreanus and melinus. Eventually they disappear from the forums without achieving that goal. The imports keep coming in. There's a reason CB aren't available: No one succeeds in breeding them and if they do, it's a one or two clutch run max.
I guess this was a long winded way of me saying 'yes, I'm against WC in the hobby'.
smy_749
03-30-13, 09:29 PM
If anything, I'm even more against WC in the hobby in places where the animals don't occur natively, such as America.
Here if WC were allowed it would just be the odd animal taken and it would only affect the individual animals (the extent of the effect would depend on the species), but when you have an import industry you are adding several other factors: It starts with people whose motivation to capture animals will be high enough that there may be some habitat destruction involved (breaking open rock crevices or hollow logs, cutting down small trees to get the animals down) and who aren't overly worried about overcollection, as their livelihood may be at stake. Then there's the death toll from transportation in substandard conditions, followed by languishing in a reptile importer's warehouse. The survivors end up in a pet store, where the staff don't know how to look after them and then, finally, most end up being bought by new keepers with no experience that buy them because they're inexpensive compared to other, CB, species. A huge percentage of them are dead before long.
Big death toll, no recruitment. I've been on these monitor forums for over 12 years and every year there's a dozen new keepers who post about how they are going to 'break the mould' and be the pioneers of producing CB Indo monitors of the indicus complex, particularly doreanus and melinus. Eventually they disappear from the forums without achieving that goal. The imports keep coming in. There's a reason CB aren't available: No one succeeds in breeding them and if they do, it's a one or two clutch run max.
I guess this was a long winded way of me saying 'yes, I'm against WC in the hobby'.
Yea I agree, But I think I will be different. I'm going to do everything to provide proper husbandry, money is not an issue. So I'm guessing they will breed in no time. I am going to break the mould and be the pioneer for sure...Oh. and I'm going to get rich as well because breeding reptiles is a sure fire way to get rich. :wacky:
But in all seriousness, for me its only more complicated because I live in an area where there is almost nothing besides a some snake species (no lizards except the 5 lined skink which I've never seen in 23 years). Plus captive bred has its roots in wild caught, so without wild caught we could never have captive bred. I suppose I would support wild caught if there was a permit required, and the permit required that you have a certain amount of income, neccessary knowledge in order to keep specific species. That would weed out the careless inexperienced keepers,and allow others to admire the species we would otherwise never be able to see.
crocdoc
03-30-13, 09:45 PM
Plus captive bred has its roots in wild caught, so without wild caught we could never have captive bred.
I've seen this lame argument used to support the WC industry before, but never from a reasonably educated person. I am, to be perfectly honest, shocked and surprised. Are you seriously unable to determine the difference between these two scenarios?
1. Remove half a dozen individuals from the wild, breed them and then continue to supply the hobby through generation after generation of hundreds (if not thousands) of CB offspring, without the need to remove more animals out of the wild.
2. Continue to remove thousands of animals out of the wild, year after year after year, with a large number dying in transport and few surviving after they reach the end user.
The other factor I haven't mentioned is that CB animals fare better in captivity, so there's a higher survival rate than with WC.
smy_749
03-30-13, 09:53 PM
I've seen this lame argument used to support the WC industry before, but never from a reasonably educated person. I am, to be perfectly honest, shocked and surprised. Are you seriously unable to determine the difference between these two scenarios?
1. Remove half a dozen individuals from the wild, breed them and then continue to supply the hobby through generation after generation of hundreds (if not thousands) of CB offspring, without the need to remove more animals out of the wild.
2. Continue to remove thousands of animals out of the wild, year after year after year, with a large number dying in transport and few surviving after they reach the end user.
The other factor I haven't mentioned is that CB animals fare better in captivity, so there's a higher survival rate than with WC.
Well I was actually implying number 1, not a full blown import/export industry to the pet trade , just that the CB has to start somewhere and not removing any wild animals wouldn't allow for it. (I tried to hint at that with the permit thing). I guess it also has application in zoo's for educational purposes, or for introducing variety into the gene pool, surely half a dozen would possibly show genetic defects after that much inbreeding. Again, I was didn't intend to use that as a reason to support a full blown WC trade, just the literal meaning of taking a wild caught animal into captivity.
crocdoc
03-30-13, 09:59 PM
Well I was actually implying number 1, not a full blown import/export industry to the pet trade , just that the CB has to start somewhere
You may have missed this bit from my earlier post:
I've been on these monitor forums for over 12 years and every year there's a dozen new keepers who post about how they are going to 'break the mould' and be the pioneers of producing CB Indo monitors of the indicus complex, particularly doreanus and melinus. Eventually they disappear from the forums without achieving that goal. The imports keep coming in. There's a reason CB aren't available: No one succeeds in breeding them and if they do, it's a one or two clutch run max.
They ALL say that they want to buy WC so they can start producing CB. They ALL fail.
At some point, someone has to say 'enough is enough'.
crocdoc
03-30-13, 10:04 PM
There's another factor here: As long as WC are available, there's less incentive to breed them in captivity. It's not a coincidence that so many Australian reptiles are available CB - Australia closed the doors to exports many years ago, so there's been strong incentive to breed the few that have been smuggled out.
If Indonesia banned exports, there'd be a lot of pressure on the remaining WC Indonesian monitors already in captivity in the US to be bred. If they failed, then people should accept that failure and those animals would no longer be available in the hobby. There is no universal law stating that every species has to be available to the hobby. Continued importation of WC animals that no one is able to breed is not the answer - I think we're beyond the disposable pet stage in our way of thinking. Or should be, anyway.
smy_749
03-30-13, 10:05 PM
I'm not referring to myself, I don't even think most of the animals being bred should be bred. So many people breeding, and no place for the animals to go because everyone has money on their mind. For me its about admiring the animals, not about producing the coolest morphs or making money. I don't breed anything just for the record, nor do I plan to. I don't even own an incubator :-P and if I had produced eggs unexpectedly, unless it was something rare which I don't own anyways, I wouldn't bother incubating the eggs so the babies could be sold to 15 year olds because I can't afford to feed/keep them all.
I see your point, but was referring to WC for people like yourself, not like me.
smy_749
03-30-13, 10:08 PM
There's another factor here: As long as WC are available, there's less incentive to breed them in captivity. It's not a coincidence that so many Australian reptiles are available CB - Australia closed the doors to exports many years ago, so there's been strong incentive to breed the few that have been smuggled out.
If Indonesia banned exports, there'd be a lot of pressure on the remaining WC Indonesian monitors already in captivity in the US to be bred. If they failed, then people should accept that failure and those animals would no longer be available in the hobby. There is no universal law stating that every species has to be available to the hobby. Continued importation of WC animals that no one is able to breed is not the answer - I think we're beyond the disposable pet stage in our way of thinking. Or should be, anyway.
Yea I guess. I guess I'm being subborn because some of the species I wish I could keep aren't available cb just yet :S
crocdoc
03-30-13, 10:24 PM
Yea I guess. I guess I'm being subborn because some of the species I wish I could keep aren't available cb just yet :S
I understand where you're coming from, but the problem is that 'just yet' assumes it will happen. If it hasn't happened yet, there's no guarantee it will. Not the way things are at the moment. People need incentive and a ban on imports would be just that.
smy_749
03-30-13, 10:35 PM
I understand where you're coming from, but the problem is that 'just yet' assumes it will happen. If it hasn't happened yet, there's no guarantee it will. Not the way things are at the moment. People need incentive and a ban on imports would be just that.
I'll admit, I'm guilty of buying imports occasionally, when I see something and can't resist the urge (I know I know) . HOWEVER, I would support a ban on imports 100%, because like you said, I think it would cause people to try really hard to provide proper conditions in order to captive breed them, instead of putting 2 of them on a paper towel on his book shelf and hoping the magic happens. 'This species lives in burrows in the wild, so this is optimal' really drives me nuts. If you can't afford it, or this is the most profitable efficient way to breed them, just say so. But in the wild they aren't trapped in that burrow forever.....
Back on topic, the other big reason is although I'd like to see all sorts of species in my home, I'd much rather have them exist in general.
SnakeyJay
04-04-13, 11:09 AM
Well I've been sucked into a conversation about training and "taming" reptiles... Varanids are a part if the conversation and this person believes all her animals are tame, come when called and are potty trained apparently.. All the while refusing to believe that it could be a food response etc... I've no experience with varanids so far but even I know that this is far fetched :)
stephanbakir
04-04-13, 11:32 AM
You can potty train them pretty easily. It's called having a big water bowl...
Regarding the taming... you aren't taming them, just like you aren't taming snakes. You are building trust, thats all it is. If it knows you aren't food, and it knows you aren't a threat... its more or less indifferent to your existence, the fact that you're bringing it food is a bonus, but it won't like you or be your friend.
smy_749
04-04-13, 12:12 PM
people love companionship, cats and dogs arent for everyone. So naturally some people turn to reptiles. Also, humans have a tendency to believe what they wish was reality as opposed to reality. Even the potty training can be debatable, some of the people here say its due to dehydration with some species. I dont think infernalis's use the waterbowl for bathroom purposes. However I know that roughnecks in general do. Hungry translates to coming when called out of love and desire for compassion, using the bathroom in a specific place translates to potty training as if youve done something (I guess leopard geckos are also potty trained seeing how they tend to defecate in one corner consistently), and sluggishness due to feeding garbage and probably chocolate to your savannah (because you love him and he probably enjoys the treat) translates to tame and enjoys watching tv with you. Its a damn lizard, there has not been thousands of years of domestication which is what was needed for dogs/cats/horses and so on. Dont waste your breath in argument with him/her.
SnakeyJay
04-04-13, 12:26 PM
Oh I've already given up... I don't mind a good debate on different views but I ain't take plain stubbornness. She keep them on Auboise anyway and preaches to all the newbs in the group about how it's best for them... So it's already a losing battle.. :(
infernalis
04-06-13, 06:18 PM
Here is the pattern as I see it.
The general public have seen nothing but poorly kept lethargic animals, Youtube reinforces this with a never ending sea of "chunky" animals walking around in apartments, and sleeping on the owner's chest, etc..
This is perpetuated further by countless pet shops that have also never seen a fit varanid behave when it's got heat.
To make things worse, so many (well intended, yet ignorant) actually DESIRE a slow monitor.
SnakeyJay
04-07-13, 04:07 AM
I think that's the issue.. People want a slow easy to care for animal... Not realising that this isn't a tame sav/monitor, it's a sick animal..
I think that's the issue.. People want a slow easy to care for animal... Not realising that this isn't a tame sav/monitor, it's a sick animal..
I'm just going to add to this convo by saying I've seen plenty of fit and healthy heated and no over weight monitors that are very tolerate of being out and handled by ther owners .....
Just saying
Also was meant to quote Wayne on this also .... Not just snakey
I have seen plenty of tolerant monitors not trained tolerant ... They are smart and learn if u find a good routine they can become tractable not all but some ....
smy_749
04-07-13, 06:49 AM
I'm just going to add to this convo by saying I've seen plenty of fit and healthy heated and no over weight monitors that are very tolerate of being out and handled by ther owners .....
Just saying
Also was meant to quote Wayne on this also .... Not just snakey
I have seen plenty of tolerant monitors not trained tolerant ... They are smart and learn if u find a good routine they can become tractable not all but some ....
Yea I agree, but I think the difference is level of activity while being tolerant. The real question is have you ever seen them sit on a mans lap and relax for long periods of time or something? Some of these 'tame' animals don't even squirm to get a proper footing or adjust their balance when being held. Would prob fall right out of a tree if you put him in one
stephanbakir
04-07-13, 07:02 AM
The sav I brought to glitch would sit in most people's arms and be fine with it, but the second something got his attention he'd be running off. At least a dozen times he was being held by people, saw a frog or something and practically ran off their shoulders after the thing.
He was "calm" and slow, but the second anything interested him he exploded after it.
smy_749
04-07-13, 07:13 AM
The sav I brought to glitch would sit in most people's arms and be fine with it, but the second something got his attention he'd be running off. At least a dozen times he was being held by people, saw a frog or something and practically ran off their shoulders after the thing.
He was "calm" and slow, but the second anything interested him he exploded after it.
Are you sure it wasn't a dog, sometimes the two can be confused.
lol I guess I stand corrected :-P
Yea I agree, but I think the difference is level of activity while being tolerant. The real question is have you ever seen them sit on a mans lap and relax for long periods of time or something? Some of these 'tame' animals don't even squirm to get a proper footing or adjust their balance when being held. Would prob fall right out of a tree if you put him in one
Sometime monitors arnt always active and will stay still for a short period of time .... Aslong as they are warm and feel safe they may just lay in people .... My old sac used to sit in my lap for a few minutes but then wud lose interest a wander off ...
All depends on the stimulus and animal in question
stephanbakir
04-07-13, 07:20 AM
Are you sure it wasn't a dog, sometimes the two can be confused.
lol I guess I stand corrected :-P
He was great with people, but that took time. When we got him he was frozen, and still wanted to bite us and get away.
infernalis
04-07-13, 08:18 AM
I noticed that he uses Mark Bayless as a reference, Hmmmm... Interesting that he choses to give a reference that can't be verified, since Mark passed away some years ago...
smy_749
04-07-13, 09:27 AM
I noticed that he uses Mark Bayless as a reference, Hmmmm... Interesting that he choses to give a reference that can't be verified, since Mark passed away some years ago...
Who is giving that reference? DD?
DeadlyDesires
04-07-13, 11:45 AM
Who is giving that reference? DD?
really? the only thing i have ever referenced was wayne's website, the information i give is all stuff that i have experienced myself, i dont even know who that guy is..
smy_749
04-07-13, 12:05 PM
really? the only thing i have ever referenced was wayne's website, the information i give is all stuff that i have experienced myself, i dont even know who that guy is..
Woops sorry, DD is in reference to the guy who posted the original video not you. :)
DeadlyDesires
04-07-13, 01:41 PM
Woops sorry, DD is in reference to the guy who posted the original video not you. :)
Oh ok, lol.. i was confused for a min like ummm.... lol
infernalis
04-08-13, 04:48 AM
DD = Dave Durham ;)
What reference of Marks did he use? I must have missed it; I stopped watching after awhile as the animals are so obviously in horrible condition. (and that constant repetitive name calling is torture to listen to)
Don't knw wot u guys are on about his care and husbandry is amazing .... And the voice of an angel ...:rolleyes:
smy_749
04-08-13, 09:36 AM
Don't knw wot u guys are on about his care and husbandry is amazing .... And the voice of an angel ...:rolleyes:
If you say so V! Brb, gonna go feed my monitor bacon and let him outside for the night. Its high 40's he should be alright for a few.
:laugh:
If you say so V! Brb, gonna go feed my monitor bacon and let him outside for the night. Its high 40's he should be alright for a few.
:laugh:
Cool cool ... Just call his name and the moni will come running ...:laugh:
I've heard burritos are very good for monis also ...:rolleyes:
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.