Causes for differing amounts of dirt staining

[Pirarucu]

Obviously the dirt itself and what it's composed of is a part of it, and most of the time is not within the keeper's control, if they only have one option. I think it would be interesting to see what other more controllable factors we can think of for those keepers who would like to see more of their monitor's real colors. To most of us, it isn't a big issue, but at lets say a zoological facility, where appearance is a big part of caging, many monitors are kept in sub-par conditions because housing them properly would get them covered in dirt.

I have thought of two major solutions so far, though both require considerable funding.

Large, running water features:
The application is obvious. The monitor gets in, dirt and dust comes off and is filtered out of the water. Water areas which the monitor keeps dirty or that do not allow the monitor to fully submerge would not allow for this as easily. Larger water features have added benefit of allowing the monitor to excercise.
The Croc Monitor at Moody gardens has a large waterfall and pond which he can submerge and even swim in. He doesn't get dirty on the level that burrowing monitors do, but he does eventually get dusty and a bit dulled down. Once he goes for a swim though, he glows when he gets out. I will also use Aja Michelle's Savs as an example, as she has a large filtered water area and both of hers are quite clean.
This is the best example I have of the Croc at Moody, but as always, cameras don't do justice to a monitor's colors.
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy75/Agigas/P1020933.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy75/Agigas/DSC_0569.jpg

Now, on to the second. Live plants:
Obviously, this one is even harder to achieve, though it is doable. You simply need a large enough cage and smart plant selection. I noticed that while monitors in captivity vary in their dirtiness depending on the dirt, wild monitors are almost never dirty, and so I looked for a reason. The conclusion I have come to is the abundance of live plants in wild habitats, or rather, the abundance of roots. It's reasonable to assume that not all dirt throughout their range is "clean", and they don't all have running water to wash up in. (And when they do, it's usually filthy.) Therefore, the only real possibility is plants. Sure enough, when looking at captive monitors, those with plants are cleaner:
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/attachments/varanid/23119d1363744767-my-rudi-303.jpg

When Wayne's plants started disappearing, so did LF and Cera's spots: (Yes, less frequent shedding is another cause.)
http://www.varanid.us/july/bask.jpg
http://www.varanid.us/LF/limb2.jpg

Nessie Eating Some Live Crickets - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiYgaj3bqu0)

BiYgaj3bqu0

So, why does this have such a marked effect? The answer has to do with erosion. One of the chief things preventing erosion in many areas is the abundance of plant life, and when it is taken away, erosive forces go to town. This is because the plant's roots hold the dirt together very well. On a smaller scale, dust, grit, and the small stuff does not escape from the larger particles, and does not get on your monitor, where it dries and cements to the skin when the monitor basks. Here is a perfect example of the effect I am talking about:
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/484212_10151473354582436_2055669807_n.png
On another note, less dust is probably a plus for the monitor's respiratory system.

So, thoughts? Anyone else have other ideas how a nice display could be set up while the monitor's needs are still being met?

[smy_749]

Last pic is very cool, and its a good topic. This may be stupid, honestly, I dont see how plants is really applicable without causing destruction, due to the limitation on enclosure sizes they will inevitably trample/tear them out. Ok here is the first stupid thing that came to my mind, what if you could some how keep plants in a part of the enclosure, where the greenery was not accessible, but the roots had access to the substrate? If you could find a species with elaborate rooting systems, and keep the actual plant in a closed off section? Put some sort of fencing underground so the roots can climb through but the monitor cannot (and not large enough holes in fencing to cause entanglement). Thats my first stupid idea, and the second one, is to do what you said about filtered water area, but instead of waiting for him to go into the water in order to "rinse off" which may not always happen, what if you had a privacy area like a back room they often have in zoos, with the proper substrate, and the outdoor observable area to guests, with a substrate that will not cause them to get all dirty (not sure what that could be, you may have an idea), and here is the trick. To get him to come out, just keep his basking spot outside, and put the water area infront of the entrance, so he has to take a swim in order to get to his basking area. :) hahaha

[Pirarucu]

Last pic is very cool, and its a good topic. This may be stupid, honestly, I dont see how plants is really applicable without causing destruction, due to the limitation on enclosure sizes they will inevitably trample/tear them out. Ok here is the first stupid thing that came to my mind, what if you could some how keep plants in a part of the enclosure, where the greenery was not accessible, but the roots had access to the substrate? If you could find a species with elaborate rooting systems, and keep the actual plant in a closed off section? Put some sort of fencing underground so the roots can climb through but the monitor cannot (and not large enough holes in fencing to cause entanglement). Thats my first stupid idea, and the second one, is to do what you said about filtered water area, but instead of waiting for him to go into the water in order to "rinse off" which may not always happen, what if you had a privacy area like a back room they often have in zoos, with the proper substrate, and the outdoor observable area to guests, with a substrate that will not cause them to get all dirty (not sure what that could be, you may have an idea), and here is the trick. To get him to come out, just keep his basking spot outside, and put the water area infront of the entrance, so he has to take a swim in order to get to his basking area. :) hahahaThe plants are actually not too hard, you just have to be smart with your choices and placement. Moody Gardens has plants in the Croc Monitor cage, I know of an Ackie cage with a thriving pothos, and I linked a nicely planted Sav cage.

Ackie Cage:
Ackies eating and hole drilling. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3eOkevzYe8)

n3eOkevzYe8

Actually not very bad ideas..

[smy_749]

The plants are actually not too hard, you just have to be smart with your choices and placement. Moody Gardens has plants in the Croc Monitor cage, I know of an Ackie cage with a thriving pothos, and I linked a nicely planted Sav cage.

Ackie Cage:
Ackies eating and hole drilling. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3eOkevzYe8)

Actually not very bad ideas..

That is a very nice looking cage, and the drilling of holes in the logs is a nice idea as well. I would imagine the plants help with moisture as well and managing of waste right?

[Pirarucu]

That is a very nice looking cage, and the drilling of holes in the logs is a nice idea as well. I would imagine the plants help with moisture as well and managing of waste right?Yup. The key with plants is to place them out of the high traffic areas, and to use either of two kinds of plants. Either they are very spread out like the pothos, so a monitor going over a part of them is inconsequential to the plant as a whole, or they are compact and strong enough that the monitor can't do a thing to them.

[Pirarucu]

Wayne, can you go back and embed both of the videos?

[smy_749]

Has anyone tried planting clover? Apparently it spreads quickly and is good in high traffic areas. Also, although it wouldn't necessarily provide any cover, what about getting a very thin small tree that a chubby Savannah or larger species wouldn't be able to climb (like an inch or 2 diameter only like a single stem ficus ? ) to maintain the soil? Or would extensive root systems from a tree prevent the ability to burrow?

I'm going to get my hand some griseus, then all I need is sand! Was bored the other day and came across a faunaclassifieds member named anthony saintz or sainz, he had a few of them, along with a nice mertensi. Looking at his older posts, the mertensi was like 3k, and alot the stuff he had posted only a few years ago (3 or 4) is double the price now, are prices on monitors really going up this quickly???

[Pirarucu]

I've never heard of clover being used, though I think I remember hearing a reason why not somewhere.. I have a Dwarf Umbrella Tree that is quite sturdy and may be used in a future cage. I have some Chinese Evergreens as well that I really like.

[smy_749]

I've never heard of clover being used, though I think I remember hearing a reason why not somewhere.. I have a Dwarf Umbrella Tree that is quite sturdy and may be used in a future cage. I have some Chinese Evergreens as well that I really like.

Now I'm getting all excited about making a viv that my wife would enjoy (she likes plants) and it would be so much more visually appealing/ possibily less maintenance if done right. But I would like to get a species that would destory everything. I have to admit, probably to the displeasure of many, that I do not like the look of ackies...at all. Kimberlys on the other hand, I really like the long streamline neck/head and grey/black on them. What do kimberlys typically go for in the U.S.? sexed male or a pair? and which month do you typically see them for sale (I haven't seen in a while)

[monitorlizard]

You would probably never think that this sav was on dirt:
Monitors - Update on Sav (http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Monitors/messages/2283299.html)

Adam uses many plants(Spider, millet, grass, and aloe).

[smy_749]

Nice thread, thats a very pretty sav he has, very light coloration (I dont like the way savs look, but the very light ones are pretty good looking) and the enclosure is nice as well. I'm really curious how much it weighs?

[Pirarucu]

Now I'm getting all excited about making a viv that my wife would enjoy (she likes plants) and it would be so much more visually appealing/ possibily less maintenance if done right. But I would like to get a species that would destory everything. I have to admit, probably to the displeasure of many, that I do not like the look of ackies...at all. Kimberlys on the other hand, I really like the long streamline neck/head and grey/black on them. What do kimberlys typically go for in the U.S.? sexed male or a pair? and which month do you typically see them for sale (I haven't seen in a while)They are all captive bred, so there isn't really a "season" for them. They're pricey, but honestly I can't remember what they usually run at. A little voice in my head is saying I saw them around $1,300, but that sounds a bit high to me.. Maybe Gregg can help out here.