Chillin' Like a Villain

[Jeepers]

So, I've given Ammit a while to acclimate. I'd say he's really cozy in his enclosure, as I've caught him just dozing off in the open on several occasions. He's already chosen two favorite hiding spots, and one spot he frequents to catch some fish.

He loves to hide under his 'bridge'. There's plantation underneath it that he also hides in while under there. All you can really see if you look back there is his snout. Many a fish died back there, LOL! He also loves to hide in the fake vines. The place he frequensts for fish hunting, besides his hides, is by the water filter. The fish seem to be attracted to the heavy current it produces and he uses that to his advantage.

I've also started spending some time with him to get him used to handling. He gets a little calmer each time, so I think that's a good sign. I'm well aware, though, that he needs to always be watched because, no matter how tame, he is a wild animal with instincts.

Here's some pictures!

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/Neutralized/caiman/IMAG4107_zpsf3a62401.jpg

Sittin' in our bed.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/Neutralized/caiman/IMAG4109_zpsad315dd5.jpg

Crawled up and fell asleep on me.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/Neutralized/caiman/IMAG4126_zps04e31fad.jpg

Fell asleep on the bed, LOL, so cute!

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/Neutralized/caiman/IMAG4118_zps10dc598f.jpg

Lounging on a fake bark decoration.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/Neutralized/caiman/IMAG4091_zpsa7d65800.jpg

Gobblin' up a Black Molly.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/Neutralized/caiman/IMAG4092_zps503bac0e.jpg

Take 2 of the gobbles.

Trying to offer him thawed out shrimp, as I've seen some owners successfully feed this along with other items in their diet, but he's being a bit stubborn on being offered food. Here's a picture of him with a shrimp, but he didn't eat the whole thing. I've tried cutting it up, too, but I think he just needs to learn to get into the habit of being offered food. He's still young.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/Neutralized/caiman/IMAG4036_zps81f223d4.jpg

[Aaron_S]

It's good that it's doing well so far.

I doubt it's a good sign that it's falling asleep on you or the bed. I bet it's due to stress and nothing else. I think you should build an actual relationship with it through just proper feedings and mainentance.

If you're looking to make it easier on you in the future to deal with it, then I think you should sell it now. No one should consider owning something that is by nature pretty aggressive and making it "tame" or "docile". I strongly believe people shouldn't get an animal to cram into their lifestyle but one that already meets someone's lifestyle. I believe a bearded dragon is for you.

[Jeepers]

It's good that it's doing well so far.

I doubt it's a good sign that it's falling asleep on you or the bed. I bet it's due to stress and nothing else. I think you should build an actual relationship with it through just proper feedings and mainentance.

If you're looking to make it easier on you in the future to deal with it, then I think you should sell it now. No one should consider owning something that is by nature pretty aggressive and making it "tame" or "docile". I strongly believe people shouldn't get an animal to cram into their lifestyle but one that already meets someone's lifestyle. I believe a bearded dragon is for you.

Stress would cause it to fall asleep?

Anyways, I'm not looking to tame it or make it docile, I'm fine with it being the way it is, but everyone needs to work with their reptiles on a daily basis after they've settled in for a while, otherwise you're going to wind up with a problem. If I never ever EVER worked with this crocodilian in my future years of owning it, I'd reckon the first time I did need to pick it up for whatever reason, I'd get the living crap bitten out of me, and it wouldn't be pretty at future sizes, I can guarantee you that. It'd be better for me to WORK WITH IT, and GET TO KNOW IT, than to be dealing with something I don't know crap about because I didn't take the time to learn its queues, its personality, etc. I wouldn't know jack crap about how mine, in particular, behaves, and that's BAD. For that reason, that's EXACTLY why everyone should work with their reptiles DAILY. Big or small, it doesn't matter.

I'd mentioned daily handling prior but did anyone complain about it? No. All they said was let it acclimate first then work with it daily, which is exactly what I'm doing.

Secondly, I don't like bearded dragons. I don't like them. I don't mind looking at them, but they do not appeal to me in the least.

Also, Cuvier's Dwarf Caimans have a nicer demeanor than others.

[Corey209]

It's good that it's doing well so far.

I doubt it's a good sign that it's falling asleep on you or the bed. I bet it's due to stress and nothing else. I think you should build an actual relationship with it through just proper feedings and mainentance.

If you're looking to make it easier on you in the future to deal with it, then I think you should sell it now. No one should consider owning something that is by nature pretty aggressive and making it "tame" or "docile". I strongly believe people shouldn't get an animal to cram into their lifestyle but one that already meets someone's lifestyle. I believe a bearded dragon is for you.

0WAjc7nwyZs

What's wrong with taming it down? It's not like she's giving it drugs to act placid.

[Jeepers]

0WAjc7nwyZs

What's wrong with taming it down? It's not like she's giving it drugs to act placid.

Personally, watching the video, I'd say it's definitely a risk to be in their natural element(in the water) at that size, but as my statement above says, if you know your reptile well enough and know when enough is enough to them, you know when you're about to have trouble and need to remove yourself asap. If ya don't work with 'em.. well, as I said, you could be in for an ugly surprise. I'd rather know my reptile than know nothing about -them-, specifically.

[lady_bug87]

Stress would cause it to fall asleep?

Anyways, I'm not looking to tame it or make it docile, I'm fine with it being the way it is, but everyone needs to work with their reptiles on a daily basis after they've settled in for a while, otherwise you're going to wind up with a problem. If I never ever EVER worked with this crocodilian in my future years of owning it, I'd reckon the first time I did need to pick it up for whatever reason, I'd get the living crap bitten out of me, and it wouldn't be pretty at future sizes, I can guarantee you that. It'd be better for me to WORK WITH IT, and GET TO KNOW IT, than to be dealing with something I don't know crap about because I didn't take the time to learn its queues, its personality, etc. I wouldn't know jack crap about how mine, in particular, behaves, and that's BAD. For that reason, that's EXACTLY why everyone should work with their reptiles DAILY. Big or small, it doesn't matter.

I'd mentioned daily handling prior but did anyone complain about it? No. All they said was let it acclimate first then work with it daily, which is exactly what I'm doing.

Secondly, I don't like bearded dragons. I don't like them. I don't mind looking at them, but they do not appeal to me in the least.

Also, Cuvier's Dwarf Caimans have a nicer demeanor than others.


I think you have misunderstood what Aaron is saying so let me try.

He isn't saying 'not' to work with it. He's saying to approach working with it on the caiman's terms. So not like you would work with a dog by training. For example: if you really look at the way Wayne and other varanid keepers work with their monitors they are not building trusting relationships by pulling them put and having them crawl on them. They are using tong feeding regimens and an over all hands off approach.

There is more than one way to learn the ques this animal will give you. Though some do in fact involve physical handling others involve close observation while the animal is in its own enclosure.

I personally feel that these animals have no business in private collection for the reasons you have stated in the part I quoted. I think you're a fine keeper and are really doing a decent job. I just don't think there are benefits to keeping them in private collection

Also, not sure about caimans but I know that a lot of lizards will close their eyes and 'sleep' when they are stressed.

Pet a bearded dragon on the head and they will 'sleep' in reality its a grimace which means 'stop touching me'

[Aaron_S]

Lady Bug put it better than I did.

Yes, reptiles 'sleep' when stressed.

I have learned all my animals cues but I never had to handle them or take them out to learn it. Not a single animal ever in my life.

[Pirarucu]

Stress would cause it to fall asleep?

Anyways, I'm not looking to tame it or make it docile, I'm fine with it being the way it is, but everyone needs to work with their reptiles on a daily basis after they've settled in for a while, otherwise you're going to wind up with a problem. If I never ever EVER worked with this crocodilian in my future years of owning it, I'd reckon the first time I did need to pick it up for whatever reason, I'd get the living crap bitten out of me, and it wouldn't be pretty at future sizes, I can guarantee you that. It'd be better for me to WORK WITH IT, and GET TO KNOW IT, than to be dealing with something I don't know crap about because I didn't take the time to learn its queues, its personality, etc. I wouldn't know jack crap about how mine, in particular, behaves, and that's BAD. For that reason, that's EXACTLY why everyone should work with their reptiles DAILY. Big or small, it doesn't matter.

I'd mentioned daily handling prior but did anyone complain about it? No. All they said was let it acclimate first then work with it daily, which is exactly what I'm doing.

Secondly, I don't like bearded dragons. I don't like them. I don't mind looking at them, but they do not appeal to me in the least.

Also, Cuvier's Dwarf Caimans have a nicer demeanor than others.Stress will cause it to pretend to be asleep. Essentially it is giving up and pretending to be a bump on a log in the hopes that you won't eat it. You see it with monitors all the time when they are forcefully handled. I would recommend the same treatment you would give a monitor, which is to simply leave it alone and let it come to trust you on its own terms. Treat it like a feral cat. Forcefully handling it will just lead to a Nile Monitor Syndrome. Someone buys a Nile and forcibly handles it all the time as a baby, in the hopes that it won't turn mean. Sure enough, it soon realizes that it can't fight back and simply gives up, and the keeper is put under the impression that they have succeeded. Then the Nile gets bigger. Suddenly it has large teeth and claws, plus a bullwhip for a tail, and it realizes now it can fight back, and it does, since all the handling only built resentment towards its keeper. This probably happens with a lot of reptiles, the only reason many are "tame" is that they simply aren't big enough to fight back.

I am friends with a man who owns a Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman, who simply put it in a large cage and left it alone. It is a very tractable animal most of the time.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=877483&d=1360079538&thumb=1
http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa369/Lepplat69/5-7-12/8-7-12/IMG_2734.jpg


I do not forcibly handle any of my animals, except if I need them out to clean the cage. If my snakes display any sign of not wanting to come out, I leave them be. Excepting cleaning and such, I only handle my snakes maybe once every other month. They are very calm animals, and are not at all defensive. My retic will come out of the cage on his own to explore, and will go back in when he wants. So no, you do not have to force your animals to like you, and you certainly don't have to handle them every day. In my experience, you really have better results if you don't.

[Aaron_S]

What's wrong with taming it down? It's not like she's giving it drugs to act placid.

You're cute when you try to act smart.

Just because someone has a video of them doing something doesn't mean they are right. There's lots of videos of savannah monitors kept "properly" to the people who take them. We all know differently though, don't we?

[Lankyrob]

You're cute when you try to act smart.

Just because someone has a video of them doing something doesn't mean they are right. There's lots of videos of savannah monitors kept "properly" to the people who take them. We all know differently though, don't we?

And just because one animal of a species does something doesnt mean every other animal of that species will be the same.

Look at Tank. I wouldnt want to get that close to any other snapper!

[SpOoKy]

He is not sleeping he is closing his eyes in hopes that you will not be interested in him. Kind of like "if I can't see you, you aren't there"

[Jeepers]

Stress will cause it to pretend to be asleep. Essentially it is giving up and pretending to be a bump on a log in the hopes that you won't eat it. You see it with monitors all the time when they are forcefully handled. I would recommend the same treatment you would give a monitor, which is to simply leave it alone and let it come to trust you on its own terms. Treat it like a feral cat. Forcefully handling it will just lead to a Nile Monitor Syndrome. Someone buys a Nile and forcibly handles it all the time as a baby, in the hopes that it won't turn mean. Sure enough, it soon realizes that it can't fight back and simply gives up, and the keeper is put under the impression that they have succeeded. Then the Nile gets bigger. Suddenly it has large teeth and claws, plus a bullwhip for a tail, and it realizes now it can fight back, and it does, since all the handling only built resentment towards its keeper. This probably happens with a lot of reptiles, the only reason many are "tame" is that they simply aren't big enough to fight back.

I am friends with a man who owns a Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman, who simply put it in a large cage and left it alone. It is a very tractable animal most of the time.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=877483&d=1360079538&thumb=1
http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa369/Lepplat69/5-7-12/8-7-12/IMG_2734.jpg


I do not forcibly handle any of my animals, except if I need them out to clean the cage. If my snakes display any sign of not wanting to come out, I leave them be. Excepting cleaning and such, I only handle my snakes maybe once every other month. They are very calm animals, and are not at all defensive. My retic will come out of the cage on his own to explore, and will go back in when he wants. So no, you do not have to force your animals to like you, and you certainly don't have to handle them every day. In my experience, you really have better results if you don't.

Wow, is that his set up? Those are the kind of enclosures I -dream- of, I love realism and trying to replicate a natural environment as close as possible. He should really tell people how he managed such a beautiful mini-biome.

Anywho, well, ok then. As far as tong feeding, as I said, he doesn't really get it. Would removing feeder fish help the training process because then he would learn that I'm the one that offers food to him and so that he'd be hungry when I do offer it? Usually he has no interest in whatever I offer him, I assume because he's in there sucking up the fish whenever he wants. That's why I think not having feeders in there may improve the tong training process, so he'd be hungry when presented with food.

Also, I think some handling may be necessary, just not on a really frequent basis... Maybe once a week, once every two weeks, etc. I mean, I say this because everyone needs to take their animals to the vet if absolutely necessary(since vet trips stress reptiles a lot, sometimes does more harm than good depending on the situation), and need to pick them up or physically interact with them to clean their habitat. I know one day I'll physically be IN his habitat when he's older, but,(in light of what you and Ladybug said) by feeding regularly I'm sure he'd know I'm not some form of intruder that he needs to wipe out. At best he'd probably think I have food. Even then, he could still get territorial.

Also, Ladybug, if that were the case, what benefit would there be in people keeping things like corns, ball pythons, etc? It's a collection, plain and simple. Plus, you had no clue I would, one day, like to use him for education purposes. I'd love to teach people about animals, especially the ones that are seen as pests/vermin/what have you. Education is important, especially in the reptile business.

[lady_bug87]

I put my personal opinions aside to try and 'soften' what Aaron said. The fact remains that ball pythons and corns can be kept in private captivity having all of their needs met. I don't believe alligators fall under this category. This is why Aaron said you shouldn't cram an animal into your lifestyle but instead opt to find an animal that already complements it.

You went from being an advocate of daily handling to one of occasional handling within the span of 2 responses. That along with the fact that you ignored the stress issue makes me think you bit off more than you can chew.

On the education argument since you brought it up...

Just because you own something doesn't make you qualified to educate others. As a parent I would be uncomfortable having someone who owns a small private collection of animals, with no other training (provided that is the case) teach him and expose him to a potentially dangerous situation.

[Jeepers]

I put my personal opinions aside to try and 'soften' what Aaron said. The fact remains that ball pythons and corns can be kept in private captivity having all of their needs met. I don't believe alligators fall under this category. This is why Aaron said you shouldn't cram an animal into your lifestyle but instead opt to find an animal that already complements it.

You went from being an advocate of daily handling to one of occasional handling within the span of 2 responses. That along with the fact that you ignored the stress issue makes me think you bit off more than you can chew.

On the education argument since you brought it up...

Just because you own something doesn't make you qualified to educate others. As a parent I would be uncomfortable having someone who owns a small private collection of animals, with no other training (provided that is the case) teach him and expose him to a potentially dangerous situation.

So I'm assuming you're calling all alligator/crocodile owners wrong, even the zoos that own them?

And no, I did not bite off more than I can chew. I've heard positives from daily handling and I know Wayne knows what he's doing, so if he finds more success with the feeding method(with the LARGE reptiles), then who am I to say it's wrong and I shouldn't try it? I can understand the thought process of,"I'm too small to do anything now." and then,"Now I can defend myself." It makes sense to me and after seeing it in that light, I'd be willing to try the feeding method. Plus, I did take stress into account, that's why I also decided to toss the daily handling and go with frequent handling to still get him used to the idea in case I ever do -need- to handle him. Why would I want to continue handling him and stressing him out? That'd be stupid and an atrocity for me to knowingly continue to stress him out.

Also, I'd intended to get training for public wildlife teaching when I was ready. You think I'm some sort of idiot that just takes my animals out without any form of professional training or license and show them off to small children? No, I do not, thanks for assuming crap of me. It takes more than just years of experience to teach the public about wildlife, as in professional training. I happen to have a friend in this business that can help me, so, once again, thanks for assuming things.

Jeez louis, this used to be a friendly community that assisted people as best as possible, but you people are just shooting down people trying to learn. First you want me to try the feeding method, and the moment I say,"Fine, I'll give it a shot," after looking at everybody's remarks on it and thinking on it, you flipping shoot me in the foot. It's a wonder that a lot of the newer members don't just walk out the door with people like you.

[Jeepers]

PS: Probably going to ignore you from now on unless you actually have something helpful to say instead of throwing crap at me. People come here to learn, if they didn't know something. They don't come here to be spat on.

[ilovemypets1988]

hi jeepers, i dont know if you should take the feeders out tbh, simply because he currently has fish on tap upon which he hunts, like he would in the wild.

have you tried "wriggling" tonged food items in the water to simulate a struggling or injured fish, he might get attracted to the vibrations created, id suggest trying that tbh

[Jeepers]

hi jeepers, i dont know if you should take the feeders out tbh, simply because he currently has fish on tap upon which he hunts, like he would in the wild.

have you tried "wriggling" tonged food items in the water to simulate a struggling or injured fish, he might get attracted to the vibrations created, id suggest trying that tbh

True true... They do need to hunt...

I did try wiggling it, but he didn't really seem overly interested. He eats really healthily on the fish, they disappear quite frequently with a large SPLASH in the water as he snaps them up. I'm thinking he's full even when I try to entice him with a wiggling item.

[ilovemypets1988]

(before i say this, this is gunna sound cruel and wrong but its the only way i think tongs will work), try this:

catch a feeder fish in a net, grab it with the tongs on the tail. this will stress out the fish enough to try to wriggle free and as its his usual food, he should go for it quickly, seeing it as an injured food source

[Jeepers]

(before i say this, this is gunna sound cruel and wrong but its the only way i think tongs will work), try this:

catch a feeder fish in a net, grab it with the tongs on the tail. this will stress out the fish enough to try to wriggle free and as its his usual food, he should go for it quickly, seeing it as an injured food source

I suppose that could work... The tongs I have shouldn't injure the fish, should he not take it, but it would cause it to squirm a lot, obviously, which may better fit his interests.

[Azrael]

Just because you own something doesn't make you qualified to educate others.

Education in this field, as with many other areas, is a matter of telling people what works for you and praying it works for them too. It's not a case of "this is what I do, so this is what you should do". It's, "this is what I do, and it works for me, maybe you should give it a shot". What works for one animal may not work for another, and helping people with their own should always take this into account.

This is a place for the education and general discussion of reptile ownership and care. Not a place for biased and/or opinionated mudslinging. Can we please maintain a professional, educational environment, and leave the silly schoolchild's picking and poking to our personal lives? What one person does with their reptile does not necessarily make them wrong, unless of course the animal suffers somehow from it. So long as the animal is healthy and appears to be generally pleased with their life, as is the case with our Ammit, I fail to see where the problem lies.

Please keep in mind as you read this that I have absolutely no experience with reptiles, and I am not about to try to educate anybody. I am a mechanic, not a vet. I am simply stating that in my eyes, it appears that some of the members of this forum are more content to simply shove their opinion down someone's throat than to try to help them in a friendly, non-opinionated manner. We get enough of that from religious extremists.

I came to this forum to learn about reptiles, but all I have taken away so far is that there are two kinds of reptile owners: the truly helpful and the truly arrogant. I have learned plenty about people, but nothing about reptiles.

[ilovemypets1988]

thats what i was thinking, this way, your doing the feeding and "training" around him and his usual diet and using that to your advantage in the sameway he uses the filter flow to his advantage, kind of, beating him at his own game. if that makes any sense

[Aaron_S]

So I'm assuming you're calling all alligator/crocodile owners wrong, even the zoos that own them?

Zoos are known to not keep reptiles correctly all the time. So I wouldn't use them as a definite source of knowledge.

I think I just call you wrong.

And no, I did not bite off more than I can chew. I've heard positives from daily handling and I know Wayne knows what he's doing, so if he finds more success with the feeding method(with the LARGE reptiles), then who am I to say it's wrong and I shouldn't try it? I can understand the thought process of,"I'm too small to do anything now." and then,"Now I can defend myself." It makes sense to me and after seeing it in that light, I'd be willing to try the feeding method. Plus, I did take stress into account, that's why I also decided to toss the daily handling and go with frequent handling to still get him used to the idea in case I ever do -need- to handle him. Why would I want to continue handling him and stressing him out? That'd be stupid and an atrocity for me to knowingly continue to stress him out.

Well you definitely did bite off more then you could chew. You have no exerience in how to handle this animal with complete hands off. Maybe you should have learned that so you don't need to handle it ever? I don't handle any animals of mine, never need to. You're lucky you've got a crocodillian who happen to be hardy creatures to keep.

P.S. if you consider savannah monitors large and not a dwarf caimen of same size I would re-check your information....

Also, I'd intended to get training for public wildlife teaching when I was ready. You think I'm some sort of idiot that just takes my animals out without any form of professional training or license and show them off to small children? No, I do not, thanks for assuming crap of me. It takes more than just years of experience to teach the public about wildlife, as in professional training. I happen to have a friend in this business that can help me, so, once again, thanks for assuming things.

Until you actually do it then yes, I'll happily assume you're 'some sort of idiot'. Of course everyone has a "friend in the business to help." Maybe they should have helped you learn how to deal with wild animals with keeping complete hands off?
Again, a caimen isn't for you. Maybe a blue tongue skink. Oh, you probably don't like them either and prefer the "uncommon" and "weird" and "cool" animal to be "different".

Jeez louis, this used to be a friendly community that assisted people as best as possible, but you people are just shooting down people trying to learn. First you want me to try the feeding method, and the moment I say,"Fine, I'll give it a shot," after looking at everybody's remarks on it and thinking on it, you flipping shoot me in the foot. It's a wonder that a lot of the newer members don't just walk out the door with people like you.

You've been here 3 minutes. How do you know what happens around here? If you read enough threads you'll see a lot of people learn things. Most of them just sit back and read first instead of jumping in with both feet then crying when someone points out their foolhardy ways.

[Azrael]

Zoos are known to not keep reptiles correctly all the time. So I wouldn't use them as a definite source of knowledge.

I think I just call you wrong.



Well you definitely did bite off more then you could chew. You have no exerience in how to handle this animal with complete hands off. Maybe you should have learned that so you don't need to handle it ever? I don't handle any animals of mine, never need to. You're lucky you've got a crocodillian who happen to be hardy creatures to keep.

P.S. if you consider savannah monitors large and not a dwarf caimen of same size I would re-check your information....



Until you actually do it then yes, I'll happily assume you're 'some sort of idiot'. Of course everyone has a "friend in the business to help." Maybe they should have helped you learn how to deal with wild animals with keeping complete hands off?
Again, a caimen isn't for you. Maybe a blue tongue skink. Oh, you probably don't like them either and prefer the "uncommon" and "weird" and "cool" animal to be "different".



You've been here 3 minutes. How do you know what happens around here? If you read enough threads you'll see a lot of people learn things. Most of them just sit back and read first instead of jumping in with both feet then crying when someone points out their foolhardy ways.

She's been a member for quite some time, she has just been inactive.

And if you must know, she does like blue-tongued skinks.

And who are you to say a caiman isn't for us? I suppose you'd be more than willing to tell us what kind of car to drive, what brand of clothes to wear, and what colour paint we should use for our house too, hmm?

You're nothing more than an arrogant fool whose head is too far in the clouds to see the people you're stepping on. A good day to you, you have caused me to despise this forum.

[Jendee]

I now you just got this animal. handling it often is a bad idea, handling a baby often is a bad idea as well. I agree with the sleeping being stress/fear bc animals especially baby/vulnerable ones "play dead" so they don't get eaten!! your never going to have a "relationship" with your caiman l have this discussion with boa people all the time. they will never enjoy your company or trust you. I see people getting caiman/alligators as the equalivant of people getting tigers and lions lol not pet type animals..professional type animals only.

and P.S a healthy, happy predatory animal will be active and always always feisty!!

[Aaron_S]

Education in this field, as with many other areas, is a matter of telling people what works for you and praying it works for them too. It's not a case of "this is what I do, so this is what you should do". It's, "this is what I do, and it works for me, maybe you should give it a shot". What works for one animal may not work for another, and helping people with their own should always take this into account.

This is a place for the education and general discussion of reptile ownership and care. Not a place for biased and/or opinionated mudslinging. Can we please maintain a professional, educational environment, and leave the silly schoolchild's picking and poking to our personal lives? What one person does with their reptile does not necessarily make them wrong, unless of course the animal suffers somehow from it. So long as the animal is healthy and appears to be generally pleased with their life, as is the case with our Ammit, I fail to see where the problem lies.

Please keep in mind as you read this that I have absolutely no experience with reptiles, and I am not about to try to educate anybody. I am a mechanic, not a vet. I am simply stating that in my eyes, it appears that some of the members of this forum are more content to simply shove their opinion down someone's throat than to try to help them in a friendly, non-opinionated manner. We get enough of that from religious extremists.

I came to this forum to learn about reptiles, but all I have taken away so far is that there are two kinds of reptile owners: the truly helpful and the truly arrogant. I have learned plenty about people, but nothing about reptiles.

Go read most of my posts. You'll see a lot about reptiles. Clearly you read the wrong threads if you aren't learning.

I've got a lot of experience, as do others here. I say things my way and a lot of people have learned from it. I say my piece because I try to stop people who think they are so clever trying to re-invent the wheel when there's CLEAR ways of doing things in a simple, healthy and SAFE way for the animals.

[Jeepers]

Well you definitely did bite off more then you could chew. You have no exerience in how to handle this animal with complete hands off. Maybe you should have learned that so you don't need to handle it ever? I don't handle any animals of mine, never need to. You're lucky you've got a crocodillian who happen to be hardy creatures to keep.

Oh, so I guess you refuse to touch yours whenever it would best to take it to the vet? Nice job. And I guess you never inspect them for any kind of problems, either? Wonderful.

As I recall, you don't keep reptiles that get large enough where it would be a problem to put them into your car, so butt out. I can't just transport a huge honking enclosure in the back of my car to the vet.

P.S. if you consider savannah monitors large and not a dwarf caimen of same size I would re-check your information....

They're a larger lizard than most people keep, so in generalization they are considered large, yes, but not as large as some others can get. As I recall, some dwarf caimans can get larger than a savannah.

Oh, you probably don't like them either and prefer the "uncommon" and "weird" and "cool" animal to be "different".

Congratulations on making a complete jerk of yourself and assuming more crap. I totally want to be a weird, different person. That's so what I aimed for in getting him. I'm glad you know so much about me.

You've been here 3 minutes. How do you know what happens around here? If you read enough threads you'll see a lot of people learn things. Most of them just sit back and read first instead of jumping in with both feet then crying when someone points out their foolhardy ways.

Pardon? I've been here since 2011 and read most threads, thanks.

[Aaron_S]

She's been a member for quite some time, she has just been inactive.

And if you must know, she does like blue-tongued skinks.

And who are you to say a caiman isn't for us? I suppose you'd be more than willing to tell us what kind of car to drive, what brand of clothes to wear, and what colour paint we should use for our house too, hmm?

You're nothing more than an arrogant fool whose head is too far in the clouds to see the people you're stepping on. A good day to you, you have caused me to despise this forum.

lol you despise a whole forum because someone doesn't blow smoke up your butt about a bad decision?

You clearly want an animal that you WANT to interact with and that may enjoy it. Caimen are NOT the answer to that. I don't even think you know what you're doing based on the fact you prefer to make a large enclosure more land space than water space. That's a joke and a half. Do some research.

Again, go get a blue tongue skink. I think you'd be happier.

[ilovemypets1988]

hey jeepers, let me know how the tongs on the fish tail works as im interested in the out come.

there are a few people on this planet that interact with larger animals, take lions for example and go look up the name Craig Busch or even just " the lion man" in New Zealand and ull see what i mean.

[Aaron_S]

Oh, so I guess you refuse to touch yours whenever it would best to take it to the vet? Nice job. And I guess you never inspect them for any kind of problems, either? Wonderful.

As I recall, you don't keep reptiles that get large enough where it would be a problem to put them into your car, so butt out. I can't just transport a huge honking enclosure in the back of my car to the vet.



They're a larger lizard than most people keep, so in generalization they are considered large, yes, but not as large as some others can get. As I recall, some dwarf caimans can get larger than a savannah.



Congratulations on making a complete jerk of yourself and assuming more crap. I totally want to be a weird, different person. That's so what I aimed for in getting him. I'm glad you know so much about me.



Pardon? I've been here since 2011 and read most threads, thanks.

You're a joke.

I don't need to take mine to the vet because I don't have improper husbandry.

No, your animal won't die if you grab it, wrap it's mouth and cover it's eyes and take it the vet in a proper transport carrier. Again, nice try. Do some research.

I used to keep large animals but they no longer fit my lifestyle so I chose a better fit. What a freakin' concept? Actually thinking more about the animal than my own wants!

SOME dawf caimen. I said my piece because it was mentioned that if he wants to use tongs with "LARGE lizards" then it's his decision. I took that as meaning that a caimen isn't a large lizard.

I like making assumptions. I've been here forever and I've seen your kind come and go. It's always the same. "I need to be cool."

Lastly, again, you never read the right threads. Plenty to learn from and if you haven't learned an iota from this forum yet then there's something wrong.

[Jeepers]

I now you just got this animal. handling it often is a bad idea, handling a baby often is a bad idea as well. I agree with the sleeping being stress/fear bc animals especially baby/vulnerable ones "play dead" so they don't get eaten!! your never going to have a "relationship" with your caiman l have this discussion with boa people all the time. they will never enjoy your company or trust you. I see people getting caiman/alligators as the equalivant of people getting tigers and lions lol not pet type animals..professional type animals only.

and P.S a healthy, happy predatory animal will be active and always always feisty!!

Ok then. See, after other people had mentioned the sleeping thing, I'd decided against handling unless necessary and maybe just a unfrequent short one every now and then, should there ever be a time when I need to, but I won't be handling him frequently anymore, I'll leave him to his habitat, maybe get some form of cover for the tank sides facing outwards, because the only time that I catch him sleeping in his tank is after I've been standing around for a moment, trying to find him and check on him, so he's probably just playing dead 'cause he saw me. Otherwise he's always alert and active.

[Corey209]

You're cute when you try to act smart.

Just because someone has a video of them doing something doesn't mean they are right. There's lots of videos of savannah monitors kept "properly" to the people who take them. We all know differently though, don't we?

That's completely irrelevant to Zoo's and wild life reserves that train their animals... There's no reason to always turn a discussion into an attack of negative remarks.

I don't agree with holding a reptile on your chest for efforts of taming because as you said it's most likely stressed but I doubt the gators living in the zoos and reserves with massive enclosures and no threats to their life are stressed out when they get their training.

[Aaron_S]

hey jeepers, let me know how the tongs on the fish tail works as im interested in the out come.

there are a few people on this planet that interact with larger animals, take lions for example and go look up the name Craig Busch or even just " the lion man" in New Zealand and ull see what i mean.

This is stupid. Take ONE person in the ENTIRE world and apply it to a completely different kind of animal.

So all the people who say their snakes bond with them would be correct even though the vast majority prove otherwise?

[Jeepers]

I don't even think you know what you're doing based on the fact you prefer to make a large enclosure more land space than water space. That's a joke and a half. Do some research.

Excuse me? Maybe YOU need to do your research. Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman, AS ADULTS, prefer MORE LAND OVER WATER. Right now, as a HATCHLING, he has MORE WATER than land.

[ilovemypets1988]

fine, ill make it very relevant, i wasnt gunna say his name as i thought it was disrespectful in this situation but go look at Steve Irwin and what he done, its that simple

[Jendee]

good to hear!! :) I think it would be fun to have a caiman, I was joking about it to my family the other night. But its personally not for me. I look forward to watching him grow with you :)

[ilovemypets1988]

and i said interact not bond

[Aaron_S]

That's completely irrelevant to Zoo's and wild life reserves that train their animals... There's no reason to always turn a discussion into an attack of negative remarks.

I don't agree with holding a reptile on your chest for efforts of taming because as you said it's most likely stressed but I doubt the gators living in the zoos and reserves with massive enclosures and no threats to their life are stressed out when they get their training.

I think they are still fools. I have yet to see many of these places actually train crocs.

They use the animal's natural instinct to seem like they are trained. Nice try though.

Again, a lot of zoos and places keep other reptiles improperly so why would they be infalliable here?

[Aaron_S]

fine, ill make it very relevant, i wasnt gunna say his name as i thought it was disrespectful in this situation but go look at Steve Irwin and what he done, its that simple

Yeah? He certainly played with his gators. All those handling sessions and allowing them to sleep in his bed.

We're not talking about MAINTENANCE and FEEDINGS that he did. You're still wrong.

[Aaron_S]

Excuse me? Maybe YOU need to do your research. Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman, AS ADULTS, prefer MORE LAND OVER WATER. Right now, as a HATCHLING, he has MORE WATER than land.

Pick out the one part I may be wrong on. ONE part...good try. Guess you can't respond to anything else I said. Sad really.

[Jeepers]

good to hear!! :) I think it would be fun to have a caiman, I was joking about it to my family the other night. But its personally not for me. I look forward to watching him grow with you :)

Thanks! And, in this sort of situation, I really have to thank you for being helpful. I'll continue to do my research. I already had a large respect for alligators and crocs growing up, thought they were beauties, and I had no idea about the dwarves until a while back, so I figured this would be good starting grounds. I think I'll read everything I can(well, more than I've already read), watch everything, talk with other keepers, etc. Maybe dedicate my life to 'em. I know I probably won't ever be anything close to a huge biome that a zoo can offer(you know, large enclosures that probably cost hundreds of thousands of dollars), but I think working in a zoo program with these wonderful real life dinosaurs would be an amazing experience in my later years!

[Jeepers]

Really, I think it boils down to Aaron abhors the thought of absolutely ANYBODY that owns a crocodilian or alligator and they're all WRONG no matter what they do. This being said, just stop blabbering off negativity in my thread. Go somewhere else. If you're so mad about people owning them, go to the forum rants section and leave me alone.

[ilovemypets1988]

hey jeepers, id suggest looking into people who have experience in these creatures, both dwarf and full sized animals, id suggest Steve Irwin, Steve Austins, etc, watch some videos and take notes on how they handled everyday situations and the not so everyday situations.

also go to a local zoo or wildlife park and talk to the keepers, they will be very interested in what you have to say and may even allow you to learn from them.

[lady_bug87]

PS: Probably going to ignore you from now on unless you actually have something helpful to say instead of throwing crap at me. People come here to learn, if they didn't know something. They don't come here to be spat on.

Please go back and re-read what I wrote. Then tell me where exactly I was 'crapping' on you since I'm pretty sure I wasn't the least bit judgmental. However *if* you're expecting people who slightly disagree with you to humor you then I'm afraid you'll find yourself wanting

[Akuma223]

Hey jeepers, try not to get too irritated with people here. They all mean the best for the animal but some sound like jerks as they go about it. This Caimen is new to you and you have seemed to have done a lot of good research on it. Do what I do and take a breather from the forum when you need to, but still heed any advice given. I understand exactly how irritating it is when one says "you have bitten of more than you can chew". I had a similar attitude as you with handling my Black roughneck monitor, new animals are a learning experience. You clearly don't seem like the kind of person who will toss their animal when they figure its too much for them and maybe thats where everyones bad attitude is coming from.

Just ignore the insults and pay attention to any advice.

[Pirarucu]

Wow, is that his set up? Those are the kind of enclosures I -dream- of, I love realism and trying to replicate a natural environment as close as possible. He should really tell people how he managed such a beautiful mini-biome.Without getting into the rest of this thread.. Wish granted.
The ]v[onster has begun!! (http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?284318-The-v-onster-has-begun)!!

[Jeepers]

Without getting into the rest of this thread.. Wish granted.
The ]v[onster has begun!! (http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?284318-The-v-onster-has-begun)!!

Thanks!

All I have to say, reading all the pages and everything, is -wow-. Simply amazing. I'll be sure to study his design front and back when I'm building Ammit's enclosure and come up with some personal implications I can do. I've already got some alterations in mind!

[KORBIN5895]

Wow. I guess my work here is done.

As for your caiman just remember this , when/if you get tired of it remember they taste delicious!

[Jeepers]

Wow. I guess my work here is done.

As for your caiman just remember this , when/if you get tired of it remember they taste delicious!

Haaa... Funny thing, I've actually had gator. Not bad, but nah, I wouldn't do that to the lil' guy... make boots, right?! Lol~