moldy log problem

[RedRaven]

Hello all,

For Christmas my BRB got a nice big piece of grape wood to climb on. She lives in a habitat with peat moss substrate and a 75-85 degree temperature gradient. The soil holds humidity well, so it usually stays around 80% in there. Being a natural climber, she spends a lot of time wrapped around it.

However, the log is covered with at least three types of mold. White circular patches, green patches with frilly edges, and tiny black stems with round tips.
(how scientific, my descriptions are. My mycologist brother would be disappointed.)
Anyhoo, the log gets moldy pretty fast (~5 days) after I clean it. So, I take the log out and clean it with hot water and dish soap. Then rinse it. Then another scrub down with reptile cleaner. Then a final rinse. I was hoping that the wood would stabilize in time, but this is a losing battle.

Is there anything I can do to permanently keep the mold from growing back? I am debating leaving the log out in the Canadian winter cold to freeze the little blighters to death, but even that, I fear is a temporary fix. I have no pics of the offending growths to post because I just cleaned it again. Any suggestions or discussion you could provide would be most appreciated.

[Corey209]

I would personally bleach it sun dry it then bake it.

[RedRaven]

Unfortunately its too big to fit in my oven.

[Corey209]

Then bleach and sun dry

[erichillkeast]

You could try sealing it with some polyurethane or some epoxy. Another way (that someone with so excited experience will hopefully chime in about), would be using a bioactive substrate with fauna what will eat the mold. I am pretty sure jerich does it.

[jarich]

Hello all,

For Christmas my BRB got a nice big piece of grape wood to climb on. She lives in a habitat with peat moss substrate and a 75-85 degree temperature gradient. The soil holds humidity well, so it usually stays around 80% in there. Being a natural climber, she spends a lot of time wrapped around it.

However, the log is covered with at least three types of mold. White circular patches, green patches with frilly edges, and tiny black stems with round tips.
(how scientific, my descriptions are. My mycologist brother would be disappointed.)
Anyhoo, the log gets moldy pretty fast (~5 days) after I clean it. So, I take the log out and clean it with hot water and dish soap. Then rinse it. Then another scrub down with reptile cleaner. Then a final rinse. I was hoping that the wood would stabilize in time, but this is a losing battle.

Is there anything I can do to permanently keep the mold from growing back? I am debating leaving the log out in the Canadian winter cold to freeze the little blighters to death, but even that, I fear is a temporary fix. I have no pics of the offending growths to post because I just cleaned it again. Any suggestions or discussion you could provide would be most appreciated.

Unfortunately the cold will do you no good and the bottom line is that grape wood is just not a good one to use in moist environments. Probably not what you wanted to hear though after already spending money on it. ;)

You can do one of two things. The first thing I would recommend is simply sealing it with a polyurethane sealant or epoxy. Give it a few coats of sealant at least, like 3 or 4 (the epoxy just needs one coating). Let that off-gas for a few days and then you should be good to go.

The other thing you can do is set up a biological system within your enclosure and add small insects like springtails and isopods to it. With other kinds of wood (hard woods) meant for high humidity environments, this would be my first choice hands down. I always prefer a stabilized biological system over adding a foreign chemical compound, if possible. Since its grape wood that you are talking about, I would actually go for the first option as you may just have so much mold growth (including slime molds, which grape wood seems particularly susceptible to) that the biological agents will simply not be able to keep up.

[ilovemypets1988]

something else you can do to bake it, get some coal and some foil to do this.

dig a ditch in ur garden big enough to fit the log in, cover the log with normal kitchen foil, half fill the ditch with red/white hot coals and then sit the log on top of the coal, then poor in more hot coal so that it covers the log completely, leave it for a few days and by the time you go back to it, the coal will be ash and the log (protected by the foil) will be sterilized :D

[Chu'Wuti]

I would DEFINITELY bleach thoroughly BEFORE sealing with polyurethane or any other sealer. Easy ways to bleach something that size: mix bleach with water in a spray bottle to spray it on, or mix bleach with water in a stainless steel or glass bowl and paint it on. As chlorine is quite toxic, it will still kill the mold even when mixed with water.

As others have said, you will want to air/sun-dry the wood quite thoroughly after bleaching so that ALL chlorine fumes have outgassed completely--chlorine will kill your BRB if any remains. However, it outgasses very nicely. Air for at least 24 hours beyond the time YOU can't smell any of the chlorine, as your nose isn't as good as your snake's.

The UV in sunlight also will help kill whatever is living in the outer surface of the wood, while the bleach will soak into the wood and kill stuff down in the pores.

As for baking--some banquet halls, such as at a local golf course, have large warming ovens. A few years back we were allowed to bake a four-foot long tree branch in the local golf course's oven for several hours on a day they didn't have any banquet occurring. You might ask around. Warming ovens can be set to the perfect temp for killing stuff without causing a fire.

Good luck!

[jarich]

Ok easy now, its just a piece of wood. There is no need to bake it or bleach it or anything else. Just make sure its dry first and then all that you need to do is seal it.

[Chu'Wuti]

I personally wouldn't want to try to paint sealant over mold. In addition, a number of authorities recommend bleaching branches due to the variety of very small and/or microscopic critters that can live inside of them, some of which can be dangerous to one's herp (e.g., tiny biting ants). Further, if another snake has ever crawled on that branch, it could potentially leave viruses or snake mites behind that I would rather my snake didn't get.
In Vivaria Designs (2007), Jerry G. Walls recommends: Be sure that you thoroughly clean every branch before adding it to the vivarium . . . . Soak all branches in bleach for at least an hour, rinse them under running water, and then let them sit in a container of clean water for half a day. (p. 41)

I failed to suggest the follow-up rinsing and soaking to help remove excess chlorine, and it's an excellent recommendation.

RedRaven, you now have multiple suggestions and opinions to help you decide what to do. Good luck!

[erichillkeast]

I personally wouldn't want to try to paint sealant over mold. In addition, a number of sources recommend bleaching branches due to the variety of very small and/or microscopic critters that can live inside of them, some of which can be dangerous to one's herp (e.g., tiny biting ants). Further, if another snake has ever crawled on that branch, it could potentially leave viruses or snake mites behind that I would rather my snake didn't get.
In Vivaria Designs (2007), Jerry G. Walls recommends:

I failed to suggest the follow-up rinsing and soaking to help remove excess chlorine, and it's an excellent recommendation.

RedRaven, you now have multiple suggestions and opinions to help you decide what to do. Good luck!

Can you find me an example of someone getting snake mites from a peice of wood taken from outside? I didn't know that there were snake mite in Canada (in the wild)

[ilovemypets1988]

i think he means a second hand piece of wood thats already been in a snake viv.

[Chu'Wuti]

Hey, erichillkeast, I hadn't noticed that RedRaven is from Canada, but neither is grape wood, is it? I'm assuming he bought the grape wood. I've been told that anything purchased from a store should be sterilized to the extent possible on the off chance that someone bought it previously, tried it out with their snake, then returned it to the store. So there's a faint possibility that another snake could have dropped mites on it, among other things.

Also, as there are many people on this forum who are not from Canada but from places farther south (as well as places around the world), providing information about appropriate precautionary acts for wood taken from the local environment could be very helpful. I live in Oklahoma, where there are many indigenous snakes, so I'm careful.

I may be overly cautious in some people's eyes; I quarantine new snakes as much as I can in my home, wash my hands between snakes, etc. But I've had many fewer problems than some people I know, so perhaps my caution is worth the "extra" time it takes me. The one time I wasn't cautious--when showing my snakes at a youth summer camp--I ended up with snake mites, and it took a lot of work/time to get rid of them (thank you, Mykee, for your excellent information on getting rid of mites!). So I think I'll continue to be cautious.

But that's MY choice. Each of us has the right to make our own choices.

[RedRaven]

While I am a fan of the KILL IT WITH FIRE approach, it probably won't work. I can try and find some isopods- the monitor lizard has a very good ecosystem going in her enclosure. She has grape wood in her habitat too, and its even warmer (and the same humidity as my girl). And her grape wood has no mold! So micro-ecosystem is definitely a good suggestion. Speaking of girls, my name is Catherine. I can definitely find some critters in the backyard come spring, but right now all the isopods are buried under two feet of snow.
Sealing the log definitely sounds like the most conclusive solution.
The room that she is in has three other snakes in it. So I can definitely respect proper quarantine procedure.

[Herpophiliac972]

Those "Molds" actually sound like natural fungi to me. I use them in some of my invert enclosures and it doesn't hurt them. I am not a hundred percent sure about you situation, but if you don't want them, I would follow the instructions the other guys are putting up. Also, if it is too big for your oven, maybe try putting it on a pan over an open fire? I had some wild caught stuff that wouldn't stop growing, so I put it in a tied, sealed trash bag and left it outside for two days. That left the fungi that was already there dry and it has not grown any more since. Hope this helped and good luck!

[Chu'Wuti]

Nice to meet you, Catherine; sorry for labeling you "he"!

If it's mold, it'll be powdery or smeary and come off on your fingers. Other, tougher fungi might be just fine, I'll agree, but I personally wouldn't want a mold because when it releases its spores, they'll spread into the atmosphere, and I have allergies to molds. But that's just me.

Also, if it's powdery/smeary mold, it will be difficult to seal without cleaning it first, I think.

Good luck resolving the problem however you decide to do it!