should i be concerned?

[nick654377]

So i know snakes know when to use the hot and cold side. My dums does very well. My bcc i just got his first meal he regerged because i thought 2 days was long enough to wait to handle. So i waited till his next feeding day. 10 days later, and offered a smaller meal. He has been in his cool side hide since he ate on sunday. should i be concerned? or just let it go and continue with handling after 4 days?

[lady_bug87]

Double check all your temperatures. Something could be up. If he is going to regurge 2 days after a meal something is wrong with the husbandry.

Remember BCCs are more sensitive to stuff like that.

[nick654377]

ambient is 80 across the board. hot spot is 92, cool floor is 78, humidity is 35-40% on hot side and cool side is 50-55%. my husbandry is spot on but it is a new snake. i got him the second weekend in feb the 9th and fed him on the 15th. i shouldnt of handled him. it was too soon and he was stressed.

I am just wondering about him hanging out on the cool side.

i forgot with this site you have to post your husbandry in every post you have.

[lady_bug87]

...
Remind me never to answer another one of your questions.

If he doesn't regurge again don't worry about him hanging on the cool side. My BCI does that time to time without puking.

So long as they eat poop and shed fine I tend not to worry

[ilovemypets1988]

trouble is that when you ask for help with advice, the first place to look is at your husbandry, fact is, how can anyone answer you without knowing your husbandry and then you moan when your are asked, do you want peoples help or not.

frankly regurgitation can happen for a number of reasons, handling to soon, stressed animal, husbandry problems, etc.

i used to handle my BCI minutes after he swallowed a meal as i fed him in a tub and after he ate, put him straight back into his viv and he never regurgitated.

[Mark Taylor]

I don't see a problem with him being on the cool side that is why its there, hold back on handling till you are sure he has digested it.

What size pray are you feeding then and now?

[nick654377]

he is 4 foot. i didnt get an exact weight on him when i got him home. i fed him a 28g weened rat. he is on the thiner side.

i have made many posts in the bci/bcc about his husbandry.

[Mark Taylor]

I don't go by weight I just go by how big it is so its hard for me to visualize. Have you got any pics of pray and snake?

[nick654377]

no i did not take pictures. there was no food lump at all. if i would of went to a 45g there would of been a small lump.

[Mark Taylor]

Then the 45g sounds the better option. I would just keep an eye on him over the next few days. Hope he keeps this one down for you.

[nick654377]

i am keeping it small for a few feedings since he is new and regerged but he will be on a 10 day feed. i am new to the bcc since they are so touchy everyone says.

[Jendee]

Don't feed him for at LEAST 3 wks after a gurge..they lose stomach acids when this happens and need time to build them back up otherwise he wont be able to digest is food and will keep regurging until death of starvation. Many reasons a snake will regurge I find husbandry and large prey items to be number one.
if animal is hanging on one side more then the other to me that would mean its too hot or too cold. the animal being cold if he is always hugging the heat, the animal being to hot if he is always hugging the cold....

[nick654377]

he is on the hot side now wrapped all up under his tree. I have read and have been told both jendee. i have read some people feeding 4 days after a regurge. I asummed he would know when to take the food when he was ready. i set it in there and after 2 minutes he had it in his mouth. if he wouldnt of taken it i would of pulled it out and tossed it. i am not saying you are wrong and sorry if it came off that way.

[Jendee]

a boa will continue to eat till it bursts at the seams, boas will also eat animals to big for them and die from it. They don't "know" whats best for them when it comes to eating..that boa doesn't know how much stomach acids he has in him lol how does that make sense. Boas are opportunistic feeders not smart calculated eaters... He needs a lot to digest the bones and such of a prey animal a lot was soaked in that prey he threw up.. good luck with him

[DeadlyDesires]

your humidity is a little low.. bump it up by 15%

[Aaron_S]

Don't feed him for at LEAST 3 wks after a gurge..they lose stomach acids when this happens and need time to build them back up otherwise he wont be able to digest is food and will keep regurging until death of starvation. Many reasons a snake will regurge I find husbandry and large prey items to be number one.
if animal is hanging on one side more then the other to me that would mean its too hot or too cold. the animal being cold if he is always hugging the heat, the animal being to hot if he is always hugging the cold....

You're wrong about the stomach acid.

Snakes stomachs aren't like mammals. They continually produce digestive juices aslong as they need to. They don't need to recover anything as they can produce it at will forever.

[Aaron_S]

a boa will continue to eat till it bursts at the seams, boas will also eat animals to big for them and die from it. They don't "know" whats best for them when it comes to eating..that boa doesn't know how much stomach acids he has in him lol how does that make sense. Boas are opportunistic feeders not smart calculated eaters... He needs a lot to digest the bones and such of a prey animal a lot was soaked in that prey he threw up.. good luck with him

What are you talking about? You're saying that a snake doesn't know how to survive on it's own without us telling them what size to eat or being careful of their infinite stomach acids?

I've never seen a snake overeat itself to death. I don't think it's possible. I think people lost their snakes to other reasons and blamed it on the food item size.

However, I do know that BCC tend to have more finicky stomachs and that they don't do well with larger items. I don't see how they'd kill themselves though!

I may just be not sensing the sarcasm here....

[Jendee]

how is that different from any other animal/person tho all our bodies produce stomach acid when needed. Im just saying they need time to recover..if something is so wrong with an animal that it vomits the last thing you want to do is shove food down its throat again. Ive learned through having neonates in litters that if fed again too soon itll create a pattern and they will die from regurging. in animals that I waited a few wks to try again they were able to keep it down and go about life as normal

[nick654377]

i read that before aaron about the stomach acids. thank you for confirming that.

[Jendee]

What are you talking about? You're saying that a snake doesn't know how to survive on it's own without us telling them what size to eat or being careful of their infinite stomach acids?

I've never seen a snake overeat itself to death. I don't think it's possible. I think people lost their snakes to other reasons and blamed it on the food item size.

However, I do know that BCC tend to have more finicky stomachs and that they don't do well with larger items. I don't see how they'd kill themselves though!

I may just be not sensing the sarcasm here....

not sarcastic at all, snakes do die in the wild on there own accord. there are documented times animals(snakes) that have take on too much to eat and sufer the conquences from it. not saying they cant survive at all, but snakes die daily as we do and every other species. They can eat larger prey items then people like to feed in captivity but most certainly have an eyes bigger then stomach issue lol either hoof, horn, or being to large snakes suffer internal injuries, as well as eating something so big they can no longer move until they digest..falling prey to predators or regurging to escape. A lot..infact Im willing to say most animals don't come back after a regurge that's why its such a serious issue and keepers fear it the most I rather get an animal with a ri then a regurge lol . Many animals die from that and if its not a stomach acid issue then what is it??

[jarich]

Its due to the damage of the stomach acids on the esophageal lining. Those are highly acidic juices coating that regurged prey, and that burns all the way up as it comes out. Some snakes seem to get over it and can eat again soon, for others the irritation is too much and they can regurge again if not enough time has transpired to heal.

Aaron is right in saying that there is no time needing for stomach acids to 'build up'. Snakes, unlike humans or warm blooded animals, go through periods of fasting and feeding. Their bodies are highly evolved for it. Therefore, when there is no food actively being digested, there is no acid being produced or stored in their stomachs. Its actually a very costly thing, energetically, for snakes to digest food, in the sense that while they are not digesting they are so adept at conserving energy. The process of digestion starting up again consumes about 1/3 of the energy gained from the meal.

[Jendee]

don't know if I can do that lol but you can google these people each one is a boa breeder...and they all say wait at least 2 wks for stomach acid/bacteria
Jendee Campbell (http://www.facebook.com/jendeec)


so Im in a debate on a forum, about regurging if a boa regurges how long after do you offer it more food and why?? isn't it a stomach acid thing


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Dean Dumbell (http://www.facebook.com/dean.dumbell) It is indeed!
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Tim Slotke's Select Serpents (http://www.facebook.com/SSSerpents) me personally would wait about two weeks adn go with a smaller meal. its hard on the stomach acids and also with the inside lining IMO.
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Dean Dumbell (http://www.facebook.com/dean.dumbell) Depending on the boa and what size prey its on etc.. I leave mine anything from two weeks to a month... Then as tim says, feed a considerably smaller prey item :)
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Jendee Campbell (http://www.facebook.com/jendeec) thank you this guy says you can feed them immeditaly after bc snakes produce constant stomach acids
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Vinnie Caruso (http://www.facebook.com/vinnie.caruso.9) More of a stomach bacteria thing really. With boas I would wait at least two weeks and start with really small meals.
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Jendee Campbell (http://www.facebook.com/jendeec) full on challenging me about it too :/ and its a bcc on top of that
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Keith Basiliko (http://www.facebook.com/keith.basiliko) Yes about two weeks minimum. It's not only just stomach acid. Sometimes it's a bacteria imbalance in them. I use two different meds on baby boas to aid in rebalancing them
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Kevin Manning (http://www.facebook.com/kevin.manning.566) I wait 10 days.
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Scott MuraMorphs (http://www.facebook.com/murascott) two weeks and smaller prey is what I was always told
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Jendee Campbell (http://www.facebook.com/jendeec) he waited 4 days..and tells me basically that Im wrong lol
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but I know nothing and neither do these people....this was after a few seconds I have 300 boa people on my page there will be more opinions....

[Aaron_S]

not sarcastic at all, snakes do die in the wild on there own accord. there are documented times animals(snakes) that have take on too much to eat and sufer the conquences from it. not saying they cant survive at all, but snakes die daily as we do and every other species. They can eat larger prey items then people like to feed in captivity but most certainly have an eyes bigger then stomach issue lol either hoof, horn, or being to large snakes suffer internal injuries, as well as eating something so big they can no longer move until they digest..falling prey to predators or regurging to escape. A lot..infact Im willing to say most animals don't come back after a regurge that's why its such a serious issue and keepers fear it the most I rather get an animal with a ri then a regurge lol . Many animals die from that and if its not a stomach acid issue then what is it??


Many animals don't die from stomach acid issues. I have yet to ever see it.

You said an animal strictly dies from eating too large a prey size. From it being a predator, or some internal injury has nothing to the with the actual size. The way you said it seemed like you were saying it's PURELY from the large size. I have yet to see it happen as any snake that can't eat it, will just regurge it.

Regurge isn't as big a deal as you're making it out to be. It's just a clear sign of something is wrong.

Gregg M has mentioned many times now that he feeds his hognoses the day after a regurge.

[Aaron_S]

lol...one guy uses meds. Wtf?

Have any of them tried anything else other than waiting 10 days? It isn't "hard on the stomach acids". They just aren't there! They make it at will! In humans, it's constantly there, in snakes it is and then isn't.

I don't care if they are "breeders" or not since that word is thrown around pretty willy nilly these days.

Due note, I did say I know a BCC tends to have a more finicky stomach where I'd personally wait a few days. I guess you missed that part.

[Jendee]

ok not breeders..Vinnie is but the rest are hobbiest that have been doing it for yrs/decades. This is my favorite forum..the people are but I hate that there are not enough boa people to help out with threads like this so people can get accurate opinions/help. Ive been trying to bring people here but no one will come!! Nicole is her now but she hasn't posted yet lol I was strictly commenting to the op saying his "boa wouldn't eat again is she wasn't ready too"...that what brought up the whole snakes die from eating things to big in the wild thing meaning they don't always do know whats best everything makes a self safety mistake and sometimes it cost them there life that was my only point in that

[nick654377]

jendee i did not wait 4 days. i waited 10 days to feed him again

[nick654377]

So i know snakes know when to use the hot and cold side. My dums does very well. My bcc i just got his first meal he regerged because i thought 2 days was long enough to wait to handle. So i waited till his next feeding day. 10 days later, and offered a smaller meal. He has been in his cool side hide since he ate on sunday. should i be concerned? or just let it go and continue with handling after 4 days?

i waited 10 days and im saying 4 days after he eats to handle him again.

[jarich]

Jendee, Im not wanting to get into a big argument about this, but you stated something incorrectly regarding the stomach acids, and Aaron disagreed with you. You apparently weren't, and still arent, aware of the actual biology of what you are arguing so trying to trash someone on another forum over the details is a little odd. I can provide you and those breeders with scientific articles showing that your assessment of a snake's stomach acid needing time to 'build up' is incorrect if you wish.

Now what they further state about stomach flora needing to recover is an entirely different thing. That I am aware of, there is no scientific studies showing that stomach flora would be decreased by regurgitation in snakes. The flora in the stomach are adapted to that acidic environment, and regurges like this do not come from the intestine, so that is inconsequential. Therefore, there are both no studies to show this, nor is there any conjectural sense in it. There may be something to the idea that a disturbance in the stomach flora caused the regurge in the first place, but that is different than saying it needs time to 'build up' again due to a regurge.

Now, arguing the length of time recommended after a regurgitation before feeding again is a different thing. That you have experience with, and can use that experience to make an informed decision. I think you are right in saying that you should give a boa time to let its esophageal lining heal before trying to feed again. Especially with a larger snake like a boa, there is no harm in it waiting a few extra days, so why try to feed again so quickly anyway?

[Jendee]

Jendee, Im not wanting to get into a big argument about this, but you stated something incorrectly regarding the stomach acids, and Aaron disagreed with you. You apparently weren't, and still arent, aware of the actual biology of what you are arguing so trying to trash someone on another forum over the details is a little odd. I can provide you and those breeders with scientific articles showing that your assessment of a snake's stomach acid needing time to 'build up' is incorrect if you wish.

Now what they further state about stomach flora needing to recover is an entirely different thing. That I am aware of, there is no scientific studies showing that stomach flora would be decreased by regurgitation in snakes. The flora in the stomach are adapted to that acidic environment, and regurges like this do not come from the intestine, so that is inconsequential. Therefore, there are both no studies to show this, nor is there any conjectural sense in it. There may be something to the idea that a disturbance in the stomach flora caused the regurge in the first place, but that is different than saying it needs time to 'build up' again due to a regurge.

Now, arguing the length of time recommended after a regurgitation before feeding again is a different thing. That you have experience with, and can use that experience to make an informed decision. I think you are right in saying that you should give a boa time to let its esophageal lining heal before trying to feed again. Especially with a larger snake like a boa, there is no harm in it waiting a few extra days, so why try to feed again so quickly anyway?

I didn't realize that they don't keep stomach acids in there stomach unless there is food there. but I do know that boas will regurge again if fed to soon after one so my natural logic assumed stomach acids. its very interesting that you guys are stating that boas produce those as they need them. but all in all it is true that they will continue to have feeding issues if not allowed time to recoup for whatever reason

[Jendee]

he is on the hot side now wrapped all up under his tree. I have read and have been told both jendee. i have read some people feeding 4 days after a regurge. I asummed he would know when to take the food when he was ready. i set it in there and after 2 minutes he had it in his mouth. if he wouldnt of taken it i would of pulled it out and tossed it. i am not saying you are wrong and sorry if it came off that way.


I was responding to this ^^^ and this only lol

[jarich]

Cool, I think we can all agree with that! ;)

[Jendee]

Cool, I think we can all agree with that! ;)

yes!! Im not trying to make an *** of myself or have this huge argument over it. Im opening to learning new stuff myself it doesn't matter how long you've been doing something you can still learn new things but I do know feeding an animal after a regurge is bad if someone did so...and I also know snakes aren't the sharpest tool in the shed.
the op has pmed me pics her body condition has seemed to improved, so we can all just hope for the best. Sorry guys if I came off bitchy just trying to prove my side(and what I see as right) not trying to down anyone....

[Aaron_S]

I didn't realize that they don't keep stomach acids in there stomach unless there is food there. but I do know that boas will regurge again if fed to soon after one so my natural logic assumed stomach acids. its very interesting that you guys are stating that boas produce those as they need them. but all in all it is true that they will continue to have feeding issues if not allowed time to recoup for whatever reason

As I said already in regards to BCC's rather sensitive stomach for the third time now. You seem to disregard my actual knowledge.

Anyway, BCI or ball python. There isn't a need for the wait. I'd like to know if these people have tried it on any sooner date than 10 days. If they are just following "what others do" then they really have no say. This is why it's so hard to get actual new information out there in this hobby. Too many people refute the actual truth because "they know".

Don't disregard that for saying I would feed the next day. Boids don't need food all the time so I'd wait but not due to any bodily reasons.

Also, they don't die from too large food items. The wild has a multitude of factors that captivity doesn't so no point in worrying about the wild. Also, don't think I'm condoning too large food items as I think they are unhealthy but that they can take them without dying.

Jarich, save me the search and could you PM a study or two for my own records?

[Jendee]

Ive always said bcc are more sensitive stomach so no argument there or disregarding your "knowledge"

Ive stated also that Ive made the mistake of feeding right after regurges and have lost several neonates through trial and error of dealing with a regurge..so yes I have tried it with poor outcomes.

and Im still sticking to my guns that yes they can die from items being to big to consume and they consumed anyway speaking mainly from animals like antelope and such

And for some reason you like to try and make me look like Im just a "know it all" coming from your boa constrictor constrictor (which by the way is the same as boa constrictor common Ill stick to that one as well) comment in another thread. I think you enjoy trying to find my hiccups and proving me wrong....

[Aaron_S]

Ive always said bcc are more sensitive stomach so no argument there or disregarding your "knowledge"

Ive stated also that Ive made the mistake of feeding right after regurges and have lost several neonates through trial and error of dealing with a regurge..so yes I have tried it with poor outcomes.

and Im still sticking to my guns that yes they can die from items being to big to consume and they consumed anyway speaking mainly from animals like antelope and such

And for some reason you like to try and make me look like Im just a "know it all" coming from your boa constrictor constrictor (which by the way is the same as boa constrictor common Ill stick to that one as well) comment in another thread. I think you enjoy trying to find my hiccups and proving me wrong....

Jendee, I don't find you wrong usually. It's this instance that you were passing on poor information on snakes as a whole about their digestive system.

[jarich]

Ya, I can send you some articles tomorrow Aaron. Im at home already and keep most of my stuff at the office.

[Jendee]

Lol just did my nightly boa check...one of the boas that i recieved in shipment today regurged something..very digested but obviously not poop. Must be from the hub bub of shipping such...bummer :/

[nick654377]

ill take the snake off your hands if your afraid he wont make it :p

[Aaron_S]

Lol just did my nightly boa check...one of the boas that i recieved in shipment today regurged something..very digested but obviously not poop. Must be from the hub bub of shipping such...bummer :/

People shouldn't ship with full stomachs. That's stupid. If it's not digested how will the lack of proper temps and the stress of shipping help it?

Sucks you had to smell that when opening the shipment!

[Jendee]

He didnt regurge in the box he must have just done it now was in there a few hrs ago and didnt notice a smell...but just contacted him and he said last meal was 2/19 idk what a bummer on a 4 figure animal. *sighs* guess Ill give him a few wks and try again. :( sucks!!

[moshirimon]

Ahh regurge smell is the worst smell I've ever smelt lol. Especially wen its an 8 foot bci throwing up a half digested rabbit.

Anyway I'd wait maybe a week before offering another meal. Not for stomach acids or any of that but just for the snake to settle. I think it makes sense, that's just my opinion and way of doing things.

OP how's the bcc? Has the stuck shed on the nose came off yet? Post some pics!

[NBLADE]

Just to chime in on the regurge debate, i always feed a week after, they don't need time to readjust the stomach acids, i tend to feed a meal slightly smaller than usual, as if the reason of the regurge is unknown, and they regurge again, a smaller meal is easier to bring up than a larger, but i've never had repeat regurges, and very rarely have them anyway. I have fed a day after regurging with no issues at all though. I've also never lost a snake due to regurging and have taken on quite a few that have had consecutive regurges. It is normally an easy fix problem and once sorted wont cause any lasting effects.

Most species i will feed a decent sized meal to leaving a real large lump, bccs are one of the few species i feed smaller prey too, as they can be more prone to regurging, and do better on smaller food.