Water Troubles

[Jeepers]

Well, I set up this land/water enclosure for my new baby caiman, and I've been having some feeder fish trouble which is a cause for concern since the caiman will be living in this water, too.

Here's my problem. I have a high quality filter for 50 - 75g(which, it's probably about 45g - 50g or so), and a 50g water heater that keeps the water roughly between 65F and 70F on the farthest edges of the 'aquarium' away from the heater, it's obviously warmer closer to the heater.

I have plants inside the aquarium to produce oxygen.

I don't really understand what's wrong. I adjust my feeders to the temps, no problem. They're all lively and happy swimming in their little baggie. I release them into the water, they all died within 10 - 15 minutes...

I really.. really don't understand why that happened, it's obviously an issue with the water, which I have dechlorinated it.

I set the tank up on Wednesday, dechlorinated it and everything. Water was crystal clear, no problems at all. Water started getting cloudy about... Friday night, Saturday morning.

I've bought pH and ammonia testers, pH seems perfectly fine, ammonia, I'm not so sure..

I was using Rosey Red Minnows, for the record. Very resilient fish, but they just keeled over.

Do I need to do a complete replace of my water or does any one have any suggestions?

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/Neutralized/IMAG3965_zpsb28c701d.jpg

[dinosaurdammit]

how do you introduce the fish? do you just pour them in?

[Corey209]

how do you introduce the fish? do you just pour them in?

This is what I was going to ask, I would introduce the fish in a big with their current water to let temps adjust.

[Jeepers]

how do you introduce the fish? do you just pour them in?

Well the people at the store said acclimate them to the temps, in their baggie, by placing the baggie in the water for 15 or so minutes, then they should be fine.

I never have been a fish person, so I just took their word for it.

[Jeepers]

This is what I was going to ask, I would introduce the fish in a big with their current water to let temps adjust.

Yeah, that's what I did. That's why it's obviously a problem with my water. They were fine with their own in a bag, sitting -in- my water, but the moment I released them it all went down hill despite sitting in the water in the bag for a while.

[KORBIN5895]

Yeah, that's what I did. That's why it's obviously a problem with my water. They were fine with their own in a bag, sitting -in- my water, but the moment I released them it all went down hill despite sitting in the water in the bag for a while.

Leave the bags in for an hour. I doubt it is the temperature but it could be. Do you have a charcoal filter and ammonia chips?

[Jeepers]

Leave the bags in for an hour. I doubt it is the temperature but it could be. Do you have a charcoal filter and ammonia chips?

Ah, ok then. I'm going to test it this time with just one minnow to be safe. I have a carbon filter and ammonia 'Remover', says the bottle.

[KORBIN5895]

When I had turtles I had these white chips that went into the filter and removed ammonia. What temp does the water need to be for the caiman? Also what temp do your feeders prefer?

[Jeepers]

When I had turtles I had these white chips that went into the filter and removed ammonia. What temp does the water need to be for the caiman? Also what temp do your feeders prefer?

Ours is a liquid ammonia remover. Rosey Reds can stand anywhere between 55F - 85F, the Dwarf Caiman, as I've read, is between 75F - 80F but can live in cooler waters, so 70F is also fine.

[Jeepers]

UPDATE:

Ok, so even adjusting in the baggie some have died... It may actually be the temperature afterall. I'll have to fiddle around a bit and see what I can do.

[DeadlyDesires]

i was told that minnows need cold cold temps like 60's ... umm.. i also know that they need running water too or they suffocate.. im not sure how your set up is can you post some pictures of it please?

[Jeepers]

i was told that minnows need cold cold temps like 60's ... umm.. i also know that they need running water too or they suffocate.. im not sure how your set up is can you post some pictures of it please?

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-enclosure-discussion/98340-how-does-look.html

It has a filter that produces a high flow so the water does have circulation. Dwarf Caimans are often found in rapid flowing rivers or waterfalls, hence why I chose a filter that produced high flow.

[DeadlyDesires]

hmm.. well i would go with the water temp then.. do a test run.. take some water out and make it cold.. put some circulation through the water and see if they still die.. with the water being colder if they still die that rules out the temp.

[bumblebat]

Pick up an API liquid test kit. Also pick up some seachem prime. It'll dechlorinate the water as well as detoxify nitrates and ammonia without removing it or locking it out and preventing it from being consumed by your beneficial bacteria.
Acclimating the fish to only the temperature is really only half of what should be done. Set up a drip acclimation with some airline tubing running from your tank in to a bucket. Tie a knot in the tubing and tighten or loosen it as needed.
Edit: leaving them in the bag for too long can kill them. They're very, very messy. Try to make it your last stop when you pick them up and get them out of the bag and acclimating as soon as possible.

[Jeepers]

hmm.. well i would go with the water temp then.. do a test run.. take some water out and make it cold.. put some circulation through the water and see if they still die.. with the water being colder if they still die that rules out the temp.

Running that test right now, they seem fine for now but it hasn't been an hour yet.

[Jeepers]

UPDATE: Ok, we only had a few dead this time around, so I'm confident that temperature was an issue. Previously it was at 65F - 68F, we've dropped it to 50F with a few dead, so I think we're going to raise the temperature to maybe 55F - 60F at most. It was smaller ones that died, so it may of been a little too cold for them.

I've released 5 into the water and I'm going to check back in an hour to see how they're doing.

[Jeepers]

UPDATE: Ok! They're all fine, so I released the rest of them. It's been about 20 or so minutes now and they're all just swimming around, skimming the bottom for food, I guess, darting all over the place, etc. I guess the problem was the temperature.

[GarterPython]

Ok also to acclimatize what we have always done and has always worked for salt and fresh water is to let them float for about 15 minutes then we put in a bit of our water and 10 minutes later we do the same thing and repeat this about 3 times

[Jeepers]

Ok also to acclimatize what we have always done and has always worked for salt and fresh water is to let them float for about 15 minutes then we put in a bit of our water and 10 minutes later we do the same thing and repeat this about 3 times

Ok, I'll keep that in mind next time. These guys are doing great now, though! It's been nearly an hour and they're all just swimming around in a group, some of 'em have strayed off and are exploring. Haven't seen any dead ones by far.

[GarterPython]

That's good. Hopefully it works out. When are you getting him?

[Aaron_S]

I bet a part of the problem was that they were adjusted to their water and your new water shocked them. It can be a problem when introducing new fish. It's why Corey recommended his method.

[Jeepers]

That's good. Hopefully it works out. When are you getting him?

He should be arriving at our local office Tuesday morning.~

I bet a part of the problem was that they were adjusted to their water and your new water shocked them. It can be a problem when introducing new fish. It's why Corey recommended his method.

Probably.. though I had them floating in their baggie of water for 15 - 20 minutes before introducing them to the water of the aquarium. Even in the baggie some of these fellows died after an hour of floating in their baggie in the current temps. They did much much better once we dropped the temperature.

[Aaron_S]

Doesn't the caimen need a higher temp?

I would just use a hardier feeder like guppies.

[GarterPython]

Yea that was the question I was having also. ^ if the Caimen ate them quickly then it wouldn't really matter if they died quickly would it?

[Jeepers]

Doesn't the caimen need a higher temp?

I would just use a hardier feeder like guppies.

What can guppies tolerate?

Yea that was the question I was having also. ^ if the Caimen ate them quickly then it wouldn't really matter if they died quickly would it?

They can live in cooler temps and some people argue that warm warm waters aren't necessary due to them being terrestial, but this one is a hatchling, so... That water is currently at about 55F. Also, if it did, then no, it wouldn't, but I'd prefer to try keeping fish in with it. Also, I had the fish and the caiman won't be here for a couple of days, so for now the temp needs to be lower to keep them alive until it arrives.

[GarterPython]

Ok I was just checking because I know nothing about these little guys. And I have some guppies and they can withstand a lot.

[Jeepers]

Ok I was just checking because I know nothing about these little guys. And I have some guppies and they can withstand a lot.

Ahhh, ok. I guess you get them at local bait shops? Our pet stores don't sell them as feeders.

[KORBIN5895]

That's just seems cold for the caiman.

[ilovemypets1988]

minnows are cold water fish and its there that your problem was, you can have them in higher temps but u need to be raising the temperature using a 5 hour period for them to adjust properly.

guppies are tropical fish and are live bearers so if done properly, you will have a supply of fish all the time as they breed like rabbits and they are very resilient fish, often the last fish in a tank to be alive in an ammonia outbreak.

you can also try neons or cardinals, both very resilient and are warm water fish and they are very cheap aswell, neons being the cheapest fish on the planet. ill get a list below for resilient and warm water fish that you could try;

guppies
mollies
platies
neon (tetra family)
cardinals (tetras)
swordtails

something larger (more expensive)

angels
silver dollars
parrot fish
any other member of the tetra family
siamese fighters
plectosamosus catfish (can grow to 30")
silver sharks
rainbow sharks (more than 1 at a time will fight)

hope this list helps you

[Jeepers]

minnows are cold water fish and its there that your problem was, you can have them in higher temps but u need to be raising the temperature using a 5 hour period for them to adjust properly.

guppies are tropical fish and are live bearers so if done properly, you will have a supply of fish all the time as they breed like rabbits and they are very resilient fish, often the last fish in a tank to be alive in an ammonia outbreak.

you can also try neons or cardinals, both very resilient and are warm water fish and they are very cheap aswell, neons being the cheapest fish on the planet. ill get a list below for resilient and warm water fish that you could try;

guppies
mollies
platies
neon (tetra family)
cardinals (tetras)
swordtails

something larger (more expensive)

angels
silver dollars
parrot fish
any other member of the tetra family
siamese fighters
plectosamosus catfish (can grow to 30")
silver sharks
rainbow sharks (more than 1 at a time will fight)

hope this list helps you

Oh thanks! I'll try guppies and maybe some neon tetras, though I wonder if they'd be a healthy food option... the Neons, I mean. I was thinking maybe mollies would be a good option but I wasn't sure.

[ilovemypets1988]

well what you could do is get a mixture of what you like and then the caiman can have a varied diet and eat what he wants, but thats just an idea :D