Identify this rat snake please!

[hackersid]

Hello,

Can someone please help me identify this rat snake? which breed is this? Its around 7ft.

Also what should I feed it? I don't have access to mouse/rats as there are no reptiles shop here in Pakistan. Previous owner told me that he will eat chicks or small birds after 20 days gap.

Also, which bedding should I use? I can't find aspen shaving here.

Currently housing this snake in aquarium!

View image: IMAG1635 (http://www.postimage.org/image/p746k17ix/)

[UwabamiReptiles]

I have two guesses what he could be: either a ptyas korros (indo-chinese rat snake) or ptyas mucosus (oriental rat snake). I'm leaning towards the oriental rat snake from that pic. As far as food, mice and rats would be the best diet but if you have to feed birds I would try to feed older birds. Chicks have little nutritional value and are high in fat. I would fed him more than once every twenty days. I would go with a feeding schedule of every 10-14 days since he's an adult.

For substrate I would go with aspen, cypress, or newspaper. If he's on the gravel in the pic I would change that as soon as you can. If you need something easy and simple I'd go with newspaper. Its cheap and its easier to keep clean.

I've read these guys can be a handful, just for my own curiosity, how is his temperament and behavior. I've heard they have some cool defense behaviors.

[hackersid]

At-last someone replied. Thank you.

I am too guessing that its oriental rat snake but have my doubts.

So which bird should I feed him? I mean he can't eat any large birds like chicken etc...should I try sparrows?

Yes, I will be shifting him to newspaper substrate soon.

Well, actually I am kinda scared of him as he looks like he is going to attack but hasn't so far. I have been his owner for 2 days now so haven't handled him that much.

btw, how can we identify genders in snake? Is mine male or female?

[BarelyBreathing]

Quail. Beautiful snake. These guys are tropical, and need a lot of humidity. A much larger enclosure with live plants would benefit it.

[hackersid]

Quail. Beautiful snake. These guys are tropical, and need a lot of humidity. A much larger enclosure with live plants would benefit it.


Quail? won't it be too big for him? he is not that huge in width.

Yes, I am planning to get a bigger enclosure. I don't have any idea on humidity...what should I do?

[UwabamiReptiles]

I know here in the states we can get quail at any age. You probably wouldn't be able to give him a full grown adult quail. He does need a bigger cage, there isn't enough floor space for him. You won't be able to keep the humidity up in a cage like that. Is there any way you could build a cage? That would most likely be the easiest thing to do since there aren't any reptile shop there.

[Ms. Medusa]

Until you get a better enclosure you can put moist towels over the top (not too close to the heat lamp) and just remist them several times a day- You want to get them pretty wet, but not running water down onto the snake. As long as you've covered a good bit of that mesh/wire it should increase the humidity. Also putting a larger water bowl in the enclosure will increase evaporation to the environment and help with humidity too.

Have you seen if any feeder companies deliver frozen items to Pakistan... I have no clue if there are any, but you can't be the only person in the area to have a need for rats.

[hackersid]

I know here in the states we can get quail at any age. You probably wouldn't be able to give him a full grown adult quail. He does need a bigger cage, there isn't enough floor space for him. You won't be able to keep the humidity up in a cage like that. Is there any way you could build a cage? That would most likely be the easiest thing to do since there aren't any reptile shop there.


Well I think I can get adult quail but I think its too big for him. Quail will be larger than his width.
Yes, I am going to make 6ft enclosure. Hopefully that will solve the space issue.

Until you get a better enclosure you can put moist towels over the top (not too close to the heat lamp) and just remist them several times a day- You want to get them pretty wet, but not running water down onto the snake. As long as you've covered a good bit of that mesh/wire it should increase the humidity. Also putting a larger water bowl in the enclosure will increase evaporation to the environment and help with humidity too.

Have you seen if any feeder companies deliver frozen items to Pakistan... I have no clue if there are any, but you can't be the only person in the area to have a need for rats.

Thank you for the towel suggest, I will implement it.

Believe me! I have looked for frozen rats but can't find any. Importing them on my own will cost me loads as 1$ = 97 PKR (My currency) so if a bag costs me around $100 including shipment - it will be like 8k in my currency, which I can't afford.

btw do these rat snakes require heat source? the previous owner told me they don't need any heat source and will do fine at room temp.

Also, he doesn't move at all in his enclosure - just hides beneath his hide all day long :hmm:

[Will0W783]

From the braided appearance of the scales on the tail, and the bit of face I could see in the first picture, that doesn't look like a rat snake at all to me...it looks like a Coachwhip snake (Masticophis flagellum).

Can you get us a better picture of the head and face?

[Will0W783]

Coachwhip | Trapping and Taxidermy, LLC (http://www.trappingandtaxidermy.com/trapping/animals/controlled/snakes/coachwhip/)

[CrestieKatie]

Well I think I can get adult quail but I think its too big for him. Quail will be larger than his width.


For most snakes, this isn't a problem. You may be surprised by what they can cram down! And just remember, snakes have been around for millenia; if they bite off more than they can chew, so to speak, they just leave it be :)

[BarelyBreathing]

Button quail are very small.

[hackersid]

From the braided appearance of the scales on the tail, and the bit of face I could see in the first picture, that doesn't look like a rat snake at all to me...it looks like a Coachwhip snake (Masticophis flagellum).

Can you get us a better picture of the head and face?


Lol! now I am more confused!

Will try to snap some more pictures of him!

For most snakes, this isn't a problem. You may be surprised by what they can cram down! And just remember, snakes have been around for millenia; if they bite off more than they can chew, so to speak, they just leave it be :)

Okay! next time will try quail !

Button quail are very small.

These are the quails that are available here.

http://images03.olx.com.pk/ui/13/16/06/1300272060_177951006_3-SHAHBAZ-POLUTRY-BATAIR-SERVICES-Animals.jpg

[dinosaurdammit]

Lol! now I am more confused!

Will try to snap some more pictures of him!



Okay! next time will try quail !



These are the quails that are available here.

http://images03.olx.com.pk/ui/13/16/06/1300272060_177951006_3-SHAHBAZ-POLUTRY-BATAIR-SERVICES-Animals.jpg



you can cut the wings off if you think the bird is too big, the wings dont have much meat and the feathers just get in the way and make it more difficult to swallow

[hackersid]

Just remembered I had some pics ! These pics were taken the day I acquired the snake.

[Will0W783]

Nice pictures! Now that I can see the head better, it's not a coachwhip. I looked up oriental rat snake, and it's almost dead-on to your snake. That's a neat species; enjoy him/her! :)

[hackersid]

Nice pictures! Now that I can see the head better, it's not a coachwhip. I looked up oriental rat snake, and it's almost dead-on to your snake. That's a neat species; enjoy him/her! :)


Woaa...thats a relief!!! Thanks for your replies - much appreciated.

btw how do I sex it? any chance that I can tell by looking at him/her?

[UwabamiReptiles]

To sex it you would have to probe him. As far as I know you cant sex these just by looking at them. Thats a beautiful snake man.

[concinnusman]

Quail? won't it be too big for him?

I sometimes feed quail chicks (hatchlings) to garter snakes as small as 2.5 feet. You said this is a 7 foot snake. Should be able to handle adult quail, depending on the type of quail. If not, then newly hatched chickens,ducks,geese, whatever, will due just fine I'm sure.

And I have to agree, that sure looks like a Dhaman , a.k.a. Oriental Ratsnake (Ptyas mucosus) Oriental Rat Snake « Reptiles and Amphibians of Bangkok (http://bangkokherps.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/oriental-rat-snake/)

The tank looks too small. Needs more floor space. Measure the length of the tank, plus the width. If the snake is longer than that, it's too small. Ideally the enclosure should be at least as long as the snake unless it's a sedentary "sit and wait predator" snake such as a python. I think the tank needs to be about twice as long as it is now.


Well I think I can get adult quail but I think its too big for him. Quail will be larger than his width

That doesn't matter one bit. They can dislocate their jaw and swallow items much bigger than their heads and certainly much wider than their body. If you can't get rodents most rat snakes will take small birds too. Don't underestimate their ability to swallow large prey. Food for a snake like that can be larger than you might think. That snake could easily swallow something as large as your fist. Maybe even a bit bigger than that.

Here's an American yellow rat snake (they can get 6-7 feet) eating a full grown squirrel so I think your snake could handle a quail just fine.

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/103/4/7/snake_eating_squirrel_2_by_allisonbrowning-d3dy2zk.jpg

[dinosaurdammit]

I sometimes feed quail chicks (hatchlings) to garter snakes as small as 2.5 feet. You said this is a 7 foot snake. Should be able to handle adult quail, depending on the type of quail. If not, then newly hatched chickens,ducks,geese, whatever, will due just fine I'm sure.

And I have to agree, that sure looks like a Dhaman , a.k.a. Oriental Ratsnake (Ptyas mucosus) Oriental Rat Snake « Reptiles and Amphibians of Bangkok (http://bangkokherps.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/oriental-rat-snake/)

The tank looks too small. Needs more floor space. Measure the length of the tank, plus the width. If the snake is longer than that, it's too small. Ideally the enclosure should be at least as long as the snake unless it's a sedentary "sit and wait predator" snake such as a python. I think the tank needs to be about twice as long as it is now.




That doesn't matter one bit. They can dislocate their jaw and swallow items much bigger than their heads and certainly much wider than their body. If you can't get rodents most rat snakes will take small birds too. Don't underestimate their ability to swallow large prey. Food for a snake like that can be larger than you might think. That snake could easily swallow something as large as your fist. Maybe even a bit bigger than that.

Here's an American yellow rat snake (they can get 6-7 feet) eating a full grown squirrel so I think your snake could handle a quail just fine.

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/103/4/7/snake_eating_squirrel_2_by_allisonbrowning-d3dy2zk.jpg


my boa is 6 foot something and can eat a large pigeon

Just look at that dislocation
http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii538/dinosaurdammit/20130208_145518_zps82658445.jpg


i wouldnt worry about a quail, they are rather small birds and i agree with the user above me, snakes can eat LARGE prey compared to their jaw size

[concinnusman]

Yeah there's gotta be something he can get at local market that the snake can eat. I think he's underestimating the size of prey the snake can eat. There's also a pretty good chance he might take livestock heart or butchered lamb/poultry/rabbit meat.

[dinosaurdammit]

Yeah there's gotta be something he can get at local market that the snake can eat. I think he's underestimating the size of prey the snake can eat. There's also a pretty good chance he might take livestock heart or butchered lamb/poultry/rabbit meat.

why would you feed a snake meat by products?

[hackersid]

To sex it you would have to probe him. As far as I know you cant sex these just by looking at them. Thats a beautiful snake man.

Oh, well I can't probe him as I don't know what am looking for :sad:

Thank you for the compliment!

I sometimes feed quail chicks (hatchlings) to garter snakes as small as 2.5 feet. You said this is a 7 foot snake. Should be able to handle adult quail, depending on the type of quail. If not, then newly hatched chickens,ducks,geese, whatever, will due just fine I'm sure.

And I have to agree, that sure looks like a Dhaman , a.k.a. Oriental Ratsnake (Ptyas mucosus) Oriental Rat Snake « Reptiles and Amphibians of Bangkok (http://bangkokherps.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/oriental-rat-snake/)

The tank looks too small. Needs more floor space. Measure the length of the tank, plus the width. If the snake is longer than that, it's too small. Ideally the enclosure should be at least as long as the snake unless it's a sedentary "sit and wait predator" snake such as a python. I think the tank needs to be about twice as long as it is now.




That doesn't matter one bit. They can dislocate their jaw and swallow items much bigger than their heads and certainly much wider than their body. If you can't get rodents most rat snakes will take small birds too. Don't underestimate their ability to swallow large prey. Food for a snake like that can be larger than you might think. That snake could easily swallow something as large as your fist. Maybe even a bit bigger than that.

Here's an American yellow rat snake (they can get 6-7 feet) eating a full grown squirrel so I think your snake could handle a quail just fine.

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/103/4/7/snake_eating_squirrel_2_by_allisonbrowning-d3dy2zk.jpg

Thank you for your detailed reply - much appreciated.
Thanks for the pic reference - now I know he can eat quail just fine. Even if he doesn't - it wont hurt to try...

I know my enclosure suxx atm, making a new one.

my boa is 6 foot something and can eat a large pigeon

Just look at that dislocation
http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii538/dinosaurdammit/20130208_145518_zps82658445.jpg


i wouldnt worry about a quail, they are rather small birds and i agree with the user above me, snakes can eat LARGE prey compared to their jaw size

WoW! your snake is amazing :P

Yeah there's gotta be something he can get at local market that the snake can eat. I think he's underestimating the size of prey the snake can eat. There's also a pretty good chance he might take livestock heart or butchered lamb/poultry/rabbit meat.

Well yeah but I will try to feed him quail first.

[Lankyrob]

You want to stick with Whole prey items and not bits of meat. Snakes have evolved to digest and use all parts of the prey they eat :)

[concinnusman]

why would you feed a snake meat by products?

The items I mentioned are not meat by-products. They are meat.:cool:

I'm trying to offer alternatives to starving. At this point is sounds like he wants to feed his snake and is looking for suggestions that are readily available to him. I do give my snakes whole prey but I also give them fish fillet, chicken thigh meat, heart, liver, etc. It's food. Nothing wrong with it. In fact, they thrive on it.

Too many people get stuck on the idea that the snake must eat whole prey or live prey only. And just because it's a rat snake doesn't mean it must eat only rodents. The suggestions I made are reasonable alternatives which might be more readily available in markets in Pakistan. If the diet is varied and nutritious, they don't necessarily have to have whole prey. If whole prey of the right size is available it's preferred, but not absolutely necessary.

[concinnusman]

Snakes have evolved to digest and use all parts of the prey they eat

Actually, they haven't. Keratin (hair, feathers, claws, beaks) is not easily digested. Most of it comes out just as it went in. And if a snake has a blockage, infection, injury to the digestive system, this undigested material can back up and cause problems.

[KORBIN5895]

Actually, they haven't. Keratin (hair, feathers, claws, beaks) is not easily digested. Most of it comes out just as it went in. And if a snake has a blockage, infection, injury to the digestive system, this undigested material can back up and cause problems.

Honestly I have never seen any of the aforementioned items in my boas feces. I have fed all of them chicks, chicken and guinea jeans and not once have I seen a feather in the poop.

[concinnusman]

And I've never seen a rodent eater that didn't regularly have feces consisting almost entirely of rodent hair/feathers which look much like an owl pellet. It's not that keratin is totally indigestible though, it's just not easy to digest. It's a very tough material. I have seen pythons that went years without passing the material, and then ended up having to go to a vet to have feet of the stuff taken out of them. Every time I fed my pueblan milk a mouse, like clockwork, a hair plug would come out a week later. I would worry if it didn't.

Perhaps some snakes are just better at digesting it than others but in any case, it's not easy. It's the kind of material that dissolves easier in a caustic solution but resists acid.