Rainbow not eating right

[sulferhead]

hey guys i have a brazilian rainbow boa thats not eating right. he is about 28 inches long almost 6 months old. i feed him every two weeks or a little earlier. he is eating frozen fuzzies or whatever the stage above pinkies is. i thaw them out well and he usually takes them within a minute of throwing them in the tank. now i have to dangle them in front of his face and even thats not working this time. he has just been lying there sticking his tongue out at it for about ten minutes. he is right up next to it but not doing anything. the tank runs about 76-79 during the night and 78- 82 during the day.

Any help would be much appreciated!!

[Gluttony]

Sometimes they just go on hunger strikes, photo period seems to affect them also. If possible raise the temp up to 84-85 since this is the ideal temp for the species, I would also try braining and see if that garners a response. I wouldnt worry unless you start to see it become emaciated or lethargic, just keep trying until it eats.

[sulferhead]

I'll get a bigger heat pad tomorrow. currently i have two medium zilla heat pads one on top and one on bottom. He is very active and looking good as of now. Is braining exactly what it sounds like???

[Valvaren]

I would absolutely not get another heat pad,your temps are fine i keep my brbs at no hotter then 82, 85 is very very extreme as far as temperatures for them and bordering on dangerous. I would check the rest of your husbandry and attempt different ways of offering food. We have two very experienced brb breeders on here and i highly reccomend waiting on their input.

[sulferhead]

I would absolutely not get another heat pad,your temps are fine i keep my brbs at no hotter then 82, 85 is very very extreme as far as temperatures for them and bordering on dangerous. I would check the rest of your husbandry and attempt different ways of offering food. We have two very experienced brb breeders on here and i highly reccomend waiting on their input.


Thanks for the info. I'll wait and see what they have to say.

[Gluttony]

What would I know? I have only had my 8 brbs for 7 yrs, but I have kept them at temps of 82-85 without issue, if you google their requirements those are the temps recomended....I dont think you need the extra heat mat, and I only suggested raising the hotter part of the enclosure to 84- 85 which is standard for brbs. Anything higher than that would be extreme and dangerous. Braining is splitting the head or just piercing it to expose brain fluid......Also with raising the temp comment I did not take into consideration the size of the enclosure....forget I said anything, since everyone else seems to know better on this site...good luck

[sulferhead]

What would I know? I have only had my 8 brbs for 7 yrs, but I have kept them at temps of 82-85 without issue, if you google their requirements those are the temps recomended....I dont think you need the extra heat mat, and I only suggested raising the hotter part of the enclosure to 84- 85 which is standard for brbs. Anything higher than that would be extreme and dangerous. Braining is splitting the head or just piercing it to expose brain fluid......Also with raising the temp comment I did not take into consideration the size of the enclosure....forget I said anything, since everyone else seems to know better on this site...good luck


Uh I didn't mean to make you mad just wanted to get some other opinions too. How can I raise the temp without getting another heat pad? Just throw a towel over it?

[Gluttony]

I am not mad, Its good that you want other opinions. Im just annoyed that every keeper thinks there are steadfast rules and that the way they do things is the way it should be....i have posted a few times on here only to be discredited by some know it alls from canada or eourope....No one can just give their 2 cents without trashing someone elses methods....the answer is simple, google the care sheet,& contact a breeder directly(the best imo). Save yourself from people opinions.

[Mark Taylor]

What is you humidity like?

[SnakeyJay]

I am not mad, Its good that you want other opinions. Im just annoyed that every keeper thinks there are steadfast rules and that the way they do things is the way it should be....i have posted a few times on here only to be discredited by some know it alls from canada or eourope....No one can just give their 2 cents without trashing someone elses methods....the answer is simple, google the care sheet,& contact a breeder directly(the best imo). Save yourself from people opinions.


Your right... there are no steadfast rules so if someone thinks your temps are too high then they're entitled to disagree...

85 is advised but anything over 85 can be dangerous to Epicrates, so if the OP is a noob it may not be the best idea for them too bump it up that far incase they mess up n over heat the viv..

To the OP- make sure the rat is nice and hot on the head and I find that BRB's tend to feed better at night or when the rooms dark. They're quite a shy species and some won't feed if they don't feel secure...

What's your humidity at and how are you measuring your temps and humidity? ..... Goodluck.

[Gluttony]

"Your right... there are no steadfast rules so if someone thinks your temps are too high then they're entitled to disagree... "
I am not the op so why should my husbandry be questioned, thank you captain obvious

[SnakeyJay]

"Your right... there are no steadfast rules so if someone thinks your temps are too high then they're entitled to disagree... "
I am not the op so why should my husbandry be questioned, thank you captain obvious

All husbandry should be questioned.. That's how we make improvements on what we do already.. If you post husbandry advice on this forum then we are all entitled to question it. Just because you've kept 8 brb's for seven years doesn't mean your beyond reproach..

If you read my post carefully, I agreed with your temperatures In theory .. But I highlighted the risk of a noob over compensating and raising it above 85 by accident. That's why I asked how the OP was measuring heat/humidity...

Don't turn this thread into a pissing contest when all the op wants is a number of opinions, and that's what your advice is, your opinion.. (As stated by you, there's no steadfast rule)

[Gluttony]

Idk about you, but when I post on a thread on any site, I make sure that I do not knock or question another persons husbandry, nor do I quote a person and use them as an example of what to do or not do. I simply relay what the standard is, and what I do..
At no point did i say I was beyond reproach, I just do not care for PEOPLES opinions on how I care for my animals. And that seems to be the general approach here.
As for your post, did you really have to quote me? ....I didnt think so
You couldnt just say what you had to say without stepping on toes....
"all husbandry should be questioned" yes when something is going wrong. I am no expert but if I ask for help I want advice not opinions.
Dont be so sensitive....your post did state the obvious!

[SnakeyJay]

From your replies it's obvious that you got upset over the OP waiting for others to reply and are now turning that on me because i dared to quote/discuss your advice.. No I didn't have to quote you, but I chose to as it was relative to the points I was making. I at no time said you were wrong, just pointed out the issues that could arise.

I'll back out of this thread now because I'm not here to argue with you, but if you don't like the way I reply then your going to have a great time here as I'm one of the polite ones.. Have fun.

[Gluttony]

Twice in 24 hours my posts have been questioned and scrutinized, and I was just trying to be helpful.I am not upset at the op. what set me off was that it was stated that 85 is very very dangerous. Could have fooled me, I guess I have been keeping them wrong all along. Good luck to you sufurhead

[SnakeyJay]

what set me off was that it was stated that 85 is very very dangerous.

Thought I'd join back in to quote you again.. ;) Actually valvaren said "very very extreme bordering on dangerous"...

[infernalis]

I would absolutely not get another heat pad,your temps are fine i keep my brbs at no hotter then 82, 85 is very very extreme as far as temperatures for them and bordering on dangerous. I would check the rest of your husbandry and attempt different ways of offering food. We have two very experienced brb breeders on here and i highly reccomend waiting on their input.

No offense intended to anyone, but can someone please explain to me how a difference of 3 degrees is going to cause harm?

I have personally been to Brasil (Tudo Bem?) and I can attest that I experienced temperatures soaring well into the 100's while in the coastal hamlet of Uba Tuba (4 hours south of Rio by car), an area rich in forest canopy and coastal atolls with a humidity index that felt like it was off the charts.

The fauna there was thriving and doing wonderfully, so please for the sake of this thread, someone explain to me how a silly three degrees is going to kill a snake that is from an area such as what I just described??

[SnakeyJay]

Stop making us envious of your travels Wayne.. lol :D

In those forests wouldn't they (and I'm guessing here) have sufficient area to find a good spot to escape the heat? But in a viv this may be harder to do.. Just my thoughts.

[Gluttony]

"In those forests wouldn't they (and I'm guessing here) have sufficient area to find a good spot to escape the heat? But in a viv this may be harder to do.. Just my thoughts.[/QUOTE]"

So you are assuming all brb keepers and the op, keep the entire enclosure at 1 temp.
The op did state he has a night time drop, which is excellent, I don't see anything wrong with bumping up the hot spot to 85 if it will aid in digestion and encourage a feeding response. If it doesnt work, it doesnt work.
I highly doubt that it will kill the snake.

[SnakeyJay]

No, I'm saying that if the hot end was 100f then unless the viv was huge the cold end and ambient temps may possibly be above what is desired..

Perhaps read my previous quote to see what my reply is in reference to. ;)

[Gluttony]

Clearly you have an answer for everything.
I will just ask you for advice from now on.
"Lets not turn this into a pissing contest" you win my bitter friend.
"I'll back out of this thread now" well done! Cant help yourself either huh? lmfao

[SnakeyJay]

No I couldn't help myself, your snotty replies just seem to attract me.... I joined back in as I thought the thread would take a better turn once I saw Wayne's reply... You know, DISCUSSING opposing ideas and having a good old debate in the subject at hand..

Instead I seem to have been sucked into an argument with a fool just because your having a cry over someone making a point in reference to the advice you have given... The funny thing is, I never once said you were wrong...

Oh well, get the thread back on track for the OP's sake if nothing else.

[Gluttony]

And he reverts to name calling now... lol mighty mature of you kid, All this time I thought my points were relevant to the op's subject, Its funny I never said you were wrong either, but since neither of us has any clue as to what size enclosure the op has we are both grasping at straws bickering back and forth...
I enjoyed discussing the facts, thanks for keeping me entertained this afternoon.:nerd::

[SnakeyJay]

No problems lol, I enjoy it too kiddo ;)

[Mark Taylor]

What is you humidity like?


Am I invisible? :no:






:)

[Gluttony]

Brazilian Rainbow Boa (http://www.reptilechannel.com/snakes/snake-care/brazilian-rainbow-boa.aspx)
This is a great care sheet for brbs and the author is the breeder that produced 2 of my het hypo brbs . I have followed this info for years.

Oh wait his temps are all wrong hahhahahhahaha

[Lankyrob]

Am I invisible? :no:






:)

Who said that?? :eek::confused::eek::confused:

[SnakeyJay]

Am I invisible? :no:






:)

No doubt me and gluttony ruined the thread for the OP... Sorry for that, would a mod please delete our arguments and get this back on track please.

(Gluttony, cheer up ;) )

[Gluttony]

I think we both actually agree on something jay, theres no need for our posts to muck up this thread.

[Mark Taylor]

No doubt me and gluttony ruined the thread for the OP... Sorry for that, would a mod please delete our arguments and get this back on track please.

(Gluttony, cheer up ;) )

Well said That's why I waited till you both sorted it out well done to both of you nothing like a good old debate.

So how is the humidity?:)

[sulferhead]

Dang this thread got long quick. I check temps with one of those digital thermometers that have the sensor in the Viv and display outside. I don't have anything to check for humidity but when i change substrate aspen shavings i spray it down with a spray bottle because it sucks all of the moisture out of the air. His last sheds were very good all in one big piece. Also i would consider myself a noob. This is the first snake i have ever taken care of. I'll post pics of the Viv and Sunny tonight.

[SnakeyJay]

Lol I actually agree with your temps Gluttony, I keep mine with an 85f hotspot.. I just tried to point out that a noob may make the mistake of overheating as over 85 stresses them out. :)

[SnakeyJay]

Dang this thread got long quick. I check temps with one of those digital thermometers that have the sensor in the Viv and display outside. I don't have anything to check for humidity but when i change substrate aspen shavings i spray it down with a spray bottle because it sucks all of the moisture out of the air. His last sheds were very good all in one big piece. Also i would consider myself a noob. This is the first snake i have ever taken care of. I'll post pics of the Viv and Sunny tonight.

My advice is to get rid of that aspen as when you spray it, it tends to grow mould. Cypress mulch is good for humidity, as is spagnum moss or just plain old paper towels do the job fine..

As for temps, you can't beat an infra red temp gun.. If you have spare cash sometime it's something you won't regret buying. Goodluck :)

[Gluttony]

Jay-Its cool brother, I am not worried about it, I was the one being sensitive since I caught heat over me feeding in separate tubs yesterday. But that issue is neither here nor there.

Sulfur-I am unsure as to keeping brbs on aspen though. I have never tried or have seen it recomended. Not to say that it cant be done. But it does not hold humidity well. The younger the boa the more humidity it needs. I use orchid bark, mixed with nature bark and coconut husk. along with lots of different mosses in the hides and out.

[Mark Taylor]

Raise temps a little and offer it food again in a couple of days so don't stress it out.

[sulferhead]

Ok so should I just buy a bag of cypress mulch from Lowe's?? I think my local pet store sells coconut husk and some other odd substrates. If I change to cypress mulch how often should it be changed? Right now I'm using a shop vac to clean ever 2-3 weeks and spot clean poop and such.

[Gluttony]

Im afraid of mites from buying at lowes or home depot, but I know of people who buy it at lowes, and they take a preventative measure as to not introduce mites, by spraying it with p.a.m..I would go with the coconut husk, I think and dont quote me on this, its cheaper and less risky.
How often you change it depends on how big the enclosure is and frequency of the snakes bowel movements, I use a shop vac also.

[infernalis]

May I ask again what everyone has against using good old fashion dirt as a substrate?

Throw down some grass seed, and watch that humidity stay up, bury a hide, and offer a small tunnel hole leading into it.

Rainbow boas are tropical, like I said in my post, the humidity index made it feel more like it was the inside of an oven, and when the humidity is that high, even the jungle is sweltering.

I don't keep rainbows, but I know that tropical animals do so much better inside tropical cages.

Besides that, bio active micro climates inside your chosen vivarium never require cleaning, as the bacteria will digest the feces in 24 hours and never leave a smell.

[BryanB]

I cant figure out why no body asked if you heat the food after it is thawed. if not just heat it up a bit in a cup of really hot water.

[Mark Taylor]

Think the most important come first like housing. Get it settled then feed.

[SnakeyJay]

I cant figure out why no body asked if you heat the food after it is thawed. if not just heat it up a bit in a cup of really hot water.

You are right, my female will turn away from her food if its not nice n hot...

[sulferhead]

I cant figure out why no body asked if you heat the food after it is thawed. if not just heat it up a bit in a cup of really hot water.


I let it thaw in warm water and it is plenty warm when I give it to him. I'm not that stupid if a noob haha.

[Aaron_S]

May I ask again what everyone has against using good old fashion dirt as a substrate?

Throw down some grass seed, and watch that humidity stay up, bury a hide, and offer a small tunnel hole leading into it.

Rainbow boas are tropical, like I said in my post, the humidity index made it feel more like it was the inside of an oven, and when the humidity is that high, even the jungle is sweltering.

I don't keep rainbows, but I know that tropical animals do so much better inside tropical cages.

Besides that, bio active micro climates inside your chosen vivarium never require cleaning, as the bacteria will digest the feces in 24 hours and never leave a smell.

Blasphemy! We need to always, ALWAYS re-invent the wheel Wayne. Don't you know that already? ;)

[sulferhead]

Here's some pics of sunny's viv. It's a twenty long tipped on its side with a sheet of polyethylene on siliconed on the bottom. On the front theres a 3 inch sheet of acrylic siliconed to the tank and the swing down door attaches to it via aquarium hinges. There is about 50 1/4 inch holes drilled in the door for circulation. The medium sized heat pads are on the left side on the top and bottom. I made 2, because at some point i know i'll want another snake.

[KORBIN5895]

Im afraid of mites from buying at lowes or home depot, but I know of people who buy it at lowes, and they take a preventative measure as to not introduce mites, by spraying it with p.a.m..I would go with the coconut husk, I think and dont quote me on this, its cheaper and less risky.
How often you change it depends on how big the enclosure is and frequency of the snakes bowel movements, I use a shop vac also.

May I ask why you are worried about mites from Lowes?

@op

Very nice conversion! You really did a great job.

[SnakeyJay]

Vivs looking good mate... Better than most conversions :)

[sulferhead]

Vivs looking good mate... Better than most conversions :)

Thanks man!

[Snakesitter]

Woah, huge thread for only two days!

Let me see if I can help....

I would absolutely not get another heat pad, your temps are fine i keep my brbs at no hotter then 82, 85 is very very extreme as far as temperatures for them and bordering on dangerous.
Valvaren is correct. I generally keep my Brazilian Rainbows at a gradient of 72F (cool end) to 82F (hot end), and they do fine. Sustained exposure to temps of 85F or over can prove fatal. As for Lockwood using 85F as his warm end…one, that care sheet is older; two, he’s an expert so can read a snake’s behavior and adjust if needed; and three -- and most important to me -- using a temp below 85F as your hot end leaves you a small margin of safety in case something goes wrong.

Wayne, to answer your question about temps during your trip…rainbows are mostly nocturnal. During the heat of the day they are holed up below ground or in the leaf litter or even in water, so they never probably see those high temps.


I would check the rest of your husbandry and attempt different ways of offering food.
Again, an excellent suggestion.

In addition to moderate temps, this species depends on having very high humidity. At age six months, these levels should still be over 90%. There are four key tools to meet this goal: a moist moss hide, a humidity-retaining substrate, a water bowl large enough to soak in, and limited ventilation. Humidity that is too low for too long can cause respiratory issues. Looking at your setup, you may have too many holes, and that can make it hard to keep the humidity up. If you have no way to easily check the level, a good low-tech solution is to look for condensation on the warm end of the viv. My rainbows’ hides always have water droplets on their sides, letting me know all is well. A higher-tech solution would be a digital temp-humidity gauge, of which there are several manufacturers.

Another issue with this particular setup may be the visibility. While it looks *amazing*, Brazilians are notoriously secretive snakes, and an all-glass life can make them nervous -- particularly if there is lighting in the viv. You might try covering a few sides with decorative backgrounds and adding an additional hiding spot.



Once your environment factors are set, hopefully he will start eating for you again.

However, you can stack the cards in your favor by offering the prey piping hot (not just warm), at dusk which is when rainbows are the most active, and dancing from tongs. Make sure all the room lights are out, and leave after offering the meal. You can even leave it in overnight if not taken right away.

Good luck!

[sulferhead]

Ok I just took some temps. the cold side with the water dish is at 76.2 and the hot spot with the hide is at 81.4. I still have not switched substrates. I was at lowes and looked at cypress mulch but i could not find anything on the bags that said if it was treated or not. My local pet store has some moss and i think ill toss that under his hide away rock.

[Snakesitter]

Temps should be fine then.

Be careful buying moss from pet stores if they sell reptiles. I've heard of more than one case of mites being transferred that way. I always buy from specialist garden supply stores and check to make sure it is as untreated as possible. New Zealand spaghnum is the best, if you can find it.

For best results, soak the moss in water, then wring out it like a towel, then place it under the hide. Check it once a week it make sure it is still moist enough.

Another trick to boost humidity is to place the water bowl partly over the heat, as this encourages more evaporation.