feeding question

[puffinluffin]

Second attempt at feeding stitch since I got him 2weeka ago. Previous owner used a tote to feed him in.

Do I feed in the enclosure or in the tote?
THe enclosure right?

[Gluttony]

Its all up to you, everyone will chime in their opinion based on what they have read or practiced themselves. In the end you must make an informed decision and do what is best for you and the snake or snakes.
I myself feed the majority of my snakes in a tote, others I feed in their enclosure. This varies with MY routine. Sometimes I have a whole day to dedicate to their feeding and general maintenence of their enclosures, other times I have an hour or so.
It is my belief that feeding in a tote promotes the handling of the snake, even if its for a minute or so and there is no chance of substrate being ingested. being that I clean their enclosures and disinfect when they are eating this works for me. But this is not the case every time, I have one snake that is aggresive and I would rather not take her out unless I have to, so she is cage fed. I also have 40 snakes and counting...regardless good luck

[puffinluffin]

Its all up to you, everyone will chime in their opinion based on what they have read or practiced themselves. In the end you must make an informed decision and do what is best for you and the snake or snakes.
I myself feed the majority of my snakes in a tote, others I feed in their enclosure. This varies with MY routine. Sometimes I have a whole day to dedicate to their feeding and general maintenence of their enclosures, other times I have an hour or so.
It is my belief that feeding in a tote promotes the handling of the snake, even if its for a minute or so and there is no chance of substrate being ingested. being that I clean their enclosures and disinfect when they are eating this works for me. But this is not the case every time, I have one snake that is aggresive and I would rather not take her out unless I have to, so she is cage fed. I also have 40 snakes and counting...regardless good luck

Awesome . okay I think I may do it in the tote. When you transfer back to the enclosure when is best? When they are done eating, mid swallow? That's mainly what concerns me.

[alessia55]

Awesome . okay I think I may do it in the tote. When you transfer back to the enclosure when is best? When they are done eating, mid swallow? That's mainly what concerns me.
Just feed inside the enclosure. Less stress for the snake. This way you won't have to worry about moving the snake while in feeding mode and/or digesting. Don't worry about substrate sticking to the prey. I feed mine rats dripping wet on reptibark, and besides the occasional piece that goes down with it, nothing happens. My snakes are happy and docile.

[exwizard]

All of my snakes get fed in their enclosures. It's easier, both on the snakes and on the keeper, is less time consuming and is less likely the snake will go into feed mode when he's still "in transit" to the feeding tote resulting in getting tagged. As stated before, you do what is best for you and your snakes but this is what I have found that works best for me. :)

[SKYlord]

Its all up to you, everyone will chime in their opinion based on what they have read or practiced themselves. In the end you must make an informed decision and do what is best for you and the snake or snakes.
I myself feed the majority of my snakes in a tote, others I feed in their enclosure. This varies with MY routine. Sometimes I have a whole day to dedicate to their feeding and general maintenence of their enclosures, other times I have an hour or so.
It is my belief that feeding in a tote promotes the handling of the snake, even if its for a minute or so and there is no chance of substrate being ingested. being that I clean their enclosures and disinfect when they are eating this works for me. But this is not the case every time, I have one snake that is aggresive and I would rather not take her out unless I have to, so she is cage fed. I also have 40 snakes and counting...regardless good luck

Wow! You own forty snakes and this is the advice you give? This is terrible advice. Please disregard this advice, op. Unless you want to get bit that is.

Just feed in the enclosure as it is less stressful for the snake and a way safer habit for you to get in if you get larger snakes.

[Gluttony]

I defrost their prey, and put all the snakes in their totes, then I feed them all in one shot, while they eat I change out their water dishes and spot clean or break down the entire cage if needed. When I am done, since the totes are clear I examine them ,which I do before they go in the tote anyway & then I put them back in their enclosures.( as carefully as holding a newborn)
As for them ingesting substrate...I would rather not risk them eating ANY at all, since getting impacted CAN kill smaller snakes. Imagine eating your food whole with pieces of bark or particulate fecal matter stuck to it, I am positive this would cause you some discomfort, so why should it be okay for the snake.
99 percent of my snakes are neither cage aggressive nor are they aggressive after their meal.. I have never been bitten while tote feeding, I have however been bitten while cage feeding.

[Gluttony]

Wow! You own forty snakes and this is the advice you give? This is terrible advice. Please disregard this advice, op. Unless you want to get bit that is.

Just feed in the enclosure as it is less stressful for the snake and a way safer habit for you to get in if you get larger snakes.

Since the op mentioned that the previous owner fed in a tote, I just explained what I do....I am not saying this is what everyone should do, ITS WHAT I DO.

Take it easy on your approach to posting, you might come across as smug to some people:laugh:

[Revenant]

Awesome . okay I think I may do it in the tote. When you transfer back to the enclosure when is best? When they are done eating, mid swallow? That's mainly what concerns me.

I would say definitely not mid-swallow! I would wait until the meal was down and give them a moment to settle, at least.

I used to be very strict about feeding my snakes in separate bins to make them easier to handle. For multiple reasons, I slowly switched over to feeding them in their homes and I have not noticed any effects on their temperament or amenability to handling.

If you're nervous about substrate and it doesn't seem to put the snakes off, I wouldn't say it was wrong to feed them in separate bin. In my own experience, the benefits I was led to believe that came from doing so were simply not there.

[Revenant]

Oh, also, if you're worried about substrate I know a lot of people will put down a paper plate or plastic lid first. They may drag it off, but it could give you some peace of mind.

[Ms. Medusa]

Its funny to me how something as simple as feeding can always prompt a high energy discussion. I tend to agree with Gluttony that everyone WILL chime in on what they have read, practiced themselves or been told by Uncle Joe the Herp Lord...

The reality is--- some snakes may be aggressive in their enclosure, some may not. Some may do fine being fed in a tote (I'm assuming this is something like a plastic container?)

Sure fire thing is? What works for one keeper will not work for another---

When I first started working with snakes I was told 2 hard and fast rules by 2 mentors.

Number one Mentor's advice was: NEVER feed in an enclosure.

Number two Mentor's advice was: ALWAYS feed in an enclosure.

Faced with this excellent contradictory advice....I decided that all other snake keepers should be treated like the In Laws. Nod nicely and thank 'em for their advice, take the bits and pieces that might work for you and use it and do whatever it is that is safe, sound and logical in caring for the snake itself. And in addition 'get to know your snakes behavior, and cues' and watch their reactions...they will tell you what they like and don't like.


I have well over 150 snakes at the moment. I can't pull each and every one out every time I do feedings. So they are mostly fed in their racks. However when I started working with snakes I took every snake out, put it in a 'tote' and fed it there. I have some now I just feed on top of the table while I clean their enclosure....but I've known them for several years and they will eat anyplace.

"Cage Aggression" Some snakes have it and other don't. I've been bitten feeding both ways. Every time it has been my own blessed fault because I wasn't watching what I was doing. I have had some snakes that wouldn't feed well there---so guess what? I changed it up the next time.

Based on what you are saying in this case.... the snake is used to being fed in a tote.. then feed in a tote. If that doesn't work, then you can always try out of the enclosure later. I'd stick to what the snake is used to honestly. Nothing wrong with that at all. And if you don't like this advice...just nod and say think you and do what you want :bouncy:

Good luck with it all! And keep us posted?

[infernalis]

Wow! You own forty snakes and this is the advice you give? This is terrible advice. Please disregard this advice, op. Unless you want to get bit that is.

Just feed in the enclosure as it is less stressful for the snake and a way safer habit for you to get in if you get larger snakes.

This post is very abrasive in nature, please refrain from being judgemental.

It's perfectly acceptable to state your point of view, but not in a berating fashion.

Thanks.

I feed about half of my snakes in totes, it works for me, and has for years.

[shaunyboy]

your snake will feel more secure feeding in his enclosure,so thats where i'd feed him

imo taking him out to feed will only stress him out more and reduce the chance of him feeding

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

I defrost their prey, and put all the snakes in their totes, then I feed them all in one shot, while they eat I change out their water dishes and spot clean or break down the entire cage if needed. When I am done, since the totes are clear I examine them ,which I do before they go in the tote anyway & then I put them back in their enclosures.( as carefully as holding a newborn)
As for them ingesting substrate...I would rather not risk them eating ANY at all, since getting impacted CAN kill smaller snakes. Imagine eating your food whole with pieces of bark or particulate fecal matter stuck to it, I am positive this would cause you some discomfort, so why should it be okay for the snake.
99 percent of my snakes are neither cage aggressive nor are they aggressive after their meal.. I have never been bitten while tote feeding, I have however been bitten while cage feeding.

snakes stomach acid can deal with teeth and bone,imo a bit of substrate will not cause any issues mate

also it's stomach acid remains in the stomach until the prey is fully digested,snakes are completely different to humans,so it's not any use compairing snakes to humans

a snake only starts to produce stomach acid once they take their prey

cheers shaun

[Gluttony]

[QUOTE=shaunyboy;814536]snakes stomach acid can deal with teeth and bone,imo a bit of substrate will not cause any issues mate

also it's stomach acid remains in the stomach until the prey is fully digested,snakes are completely different to humans,so it's not any use compairing snakes to humans

For the sake of argument,I beg to differ, there is a difference between wood and a mouse & rats organic compounds, teeth and bone get digested and wood comes out the same & CAN cause a blockage, I have seen this first hand in my own collection and is an unnecessary risk. For the tenth time THAT IS MY OPINION dammit & I am not pushing it on the op unlike some others are pushing what works for them.
Why cant people just share what works for them without discrediting others. SMH

[exwizard]

Sure fire thing is? What works for one keeper will not work for another---

When I first started working with snakes I was told 2 hard and fast rules by 2 mentors.

Number one Mentor's advice was: NEVER feed in an enclosure.

Number two Mentor's advice was: ALWAYS feed in an enclosure....


...I have well over 150 snakes at the moment. I can't pull each and every one out every time I do feedings. So they are mostly fed in their racks. However when I started working with snakes I took every snake out, put it in a 'tote' and fed it there. I have some now I just feed on top of the table while I clean their enclosure....but I've known them for several years and they will eat anyplace...I like you. That's pretty sound advice and a great way to make your points! Thank you.

[Aaron_S]

[QUOTE=shaunyboy;814536]snakes stomach acid can deal with teeth and bone,imo a bit of substrate will not cause any issues mate

also it's stomach acid remains in the stomach until the prey is fully digested,snakes are completely different to humans,so it's not any use compairing snakes to humans

For the sake of argument,I beg to differ, there is a difference between wood and a mouse & rats organic compounds, teeth and bone get digested and wood comes out the same & CAN cause a blockage, I have seen this first hand in my own collection and is an unnecessary risk. For the tenth time THAT IS MY OPINION dammit & I am not pushing it on the op unlike some others are pushing what works for them.
Why cant people just share what works for them without discrediting others. SMH

What species of snake was impacted that you've seen in your collection?

I've never seen impaction by any means in the years I've worked with various different species.

I ask because I'm curious if there's an underlying reason for it. Keeper's are now realizing temperatures are too low for some lizards to eat and digest all prey items properly and I'm wondering if it's true for snake species as well. I know Western Hognose snakes were kept far too cool and now that people are used warmer temperatures they have great eaters all the time, out of the egg as well as better breeding animals.

[jarich]

[QUOTE=shaunyboy;814536]snakes stomach acid can deal with teeth and bone,imo a bit of substrate will not cause any issues mate

also it's stomach acid remains in the stomach until the prey is fully digested,snakes are completely different to humans,so it's not any use compairing snakes to humans

For the sake of argument,I beg to differ, there is a difference between wood and a mouse & rats organic compounds, teeth and bone get digested and wood comes out the same & CAN cause a blockage, I have seen this first hand in my own collection and is an unnecessary risk. For the tenth time THAT IS MY OPINION dammit & I am not pushing it on the op unlike some others are pushing what works for them.
Why cant people just share what works for them without discrediting others. SMH

Easy tiger! I agree with you on the digestion of plant versus animal matter. Plant cells are very difficult to break down versus animal cell walls and require different enzymes and gut fauna. Obligate carnivores will generally not be able to digest plant matter at all.

However, with that said Gluttony, you seem to be quite sensitive to people merely disagreeing with you. Shawn wasnt berating you at all but rather very casually stating his own opinion, which was different than yours. It seems like you are suggesting that if you put an opinion down that no one is allowed to question it. However, that is basically the scientific method. Someone states a hypothesis and then it gets tested, argued about, beat up and hopefully through this collective means, comes out better at the other end. We try to keep the personal judgement out of it, like Wayne said, and any name calling or bashing is against the rules, but merely disagreeing and then giving opinions on why should be something you look forward to. We are all, from new keepers to experienced breeders, hopefully always learning through this community process.

[Aaron_S]

..Why cant people just share what works for them without discrediting others. SMH

Just so you can sleep better at night as well.

Because sometimes, what people post isn't right, in the least, no matter what.

[Gluttony]

[QUOTE=Gluttony;814560]

Easy tiger! I agree with you on the digestion of plant versus animal matter. Plant cells are very difficult to break down versus animal cell walls and require different enzymes and gut fauna. Obligate carnivores will generally not be able to digest plant matter at all.

However, with that said Gluttony, you seem to be quite sensitive to people merely disagreeing with you. Shawn wasnt berating you at all but rather very casually stating his own opinion, which was different than yours. It seems like you are suggesting that if you put an opinion down that no one is allowed to question it. However, that is basically the scientific method. Someone states a hypothesis and then it gets tested, argued about, beat up and hopefully through this collective means, comes out better at the other end. We try to keep the personal judgement out of it, like Wayne said, and any name calling or bashing is against the rules, but merely disagreeing and then giving opinions on why should be something you look forward to. We are all, from new keepers to experienced breeders, hopefully always learning through this community process.

Is this thread about me or the op's question? I was casually stating what I do and was singled out for feeding outside the enclosure.

"What species of snake was impacted that you've seen in your collection?"

I had a juvenille high white cal king die from swallowing a piece of nature bark...the necropsy found a few pieces were ingested, one with a sharp edge/point

Please stay on the topic that the op posted, disregard anything that I have posted, i will not post again on any topic, don't worry. Thanks and I meant no offense

[mykee]

Wow, why are you guys attacking Glutton? He's entitled to his own opinion as are the rest of you. I disagree 100% with his feeding methods, but I'm not going to rip him a new poopchute for his methods.
Jeez people!
Members are getting dickier and dickier on here.

[jarich]

Wow, why are you guys attacking Glutton? He's entitled to his own opinion as are the rest of you. I disagree 100% with his feeding methods, but I'm not going to rip him a new poopchute for his methods.
Jeez people!
Members are getting dickier and dickier on here.

I think this day needs to be recorded in the history of the forum. Mykee has officially gotten soft in his old age. ;)

Just kidding and back to the discussion at hand. I normally recommend to new people that they feed within their enclosure as new snakes or snakes that have not been handled or acclimated can have stress levels increased by handling, especially during feeding. This can lead to the snake not eating or later regurgitating. Since the OP stated that she just got the snake about a week ago, and it refused its first feeding attempt, Id recommend not feeding it outside the enclosure just yet. Give it a few weeks to get used to its new home and then if you would like to feed in a separate tub there seems little harm in it. Studies have shown that BPs, once acclimated to human contact, are not stressed out at all by being held.

Sorry to hear that you lost a snake to impaction Gluttony, that sucks.

[Aaron_S]

[QUOTE=jarich;814728]

Is this thread about me or the op's question? I was casually stating what I do and was singled out for feeding outside the enclosure.

"What species of snake was impacted that you've seen in your collection?"

I had a juvenille high white cal king die from swallowing a piece of nature bark...the necropsy found a few pieces were ingested, one with a sharp edge/point

Please stay on the topic that the op posted, disregard anything that I have posted, i will not post again on any topic, don't worry. Thanks and I meant no offense

Wait? What? I can't question for more details of a case of feeding inside the enclosure (which is on topic of Puff) because YOU wrote it?

I don't see how the few pieces ingested are the cause of death (unless the sharp piece pierced organs).

Regularly, snakes ingest substrate and it passed through. I'd question the death again because it sounds more like that the animal died with some pieces that hadn't passed yet. It's how stomach contents are examined in dead animals, they are there from before the animal passed them. (Again the sharp piece could be the cause if it punctured organs or something)

[Aaron_S]

Wow, why are you guys attacking Glutton? He's entitled to his own opinion as are the rest of you. I disagree 100% with his feeding methods, but I'm not going to rip him a new poopchute for his methods.
Jeez people!
Members are getting dickier and dickier on here.

Nobody cares about you old man!

[puffinluffin]

Wow! You own forty snakes and this is the advice you give? This is terrible advice. Please disregard this advice, op. Unless you want to get bit that is.

Just feed in the enclosure as it is less stressful for the snake and a way safer habit for you to get in if you get larger snakes.

Lol. No problem. I'm pretty new to this.however my common sense nagged, and told be to leave him where he's most comfortable. I have decided to change things to what works best for me. I do majority of his care.

He ended up taking it no problem in the enclosure. Worked out fine.
Something in my head just said leave him alone Hah.

[puffinluffin]

Can't we all just get along.

*Backs away*

[Ms. Medusa]

I like you. That's pretty sound advice and a great way to make your points! Thank you.


Thanks much! I try to keep it as real as possible :Wow:

[Ms. Medusa]

Lol. No problem. I'm pretty new to this.however my common sense nagged, and told be to leave him where he's most comfortable. I have decided to change things to what works best for me. I do majority of his care.

He ended up taking it no problem in the enclosure. Worked out fine.
Something in my head just said leave him alone Hah.


Perfect! Listening to the voices in my head works for me too! I think you did a fantastic job of sorting through all the many viewpoints and coming up with your own!

[KORBIN5895]

This thread has almost left me speechless.....i will keep my opinions to myself as they are irrelevant to the op.

Congrats on getting him to eat puffin. He was probably just stressed.

[SKYlord]

This post is very abrasive in nature, please refrain from being judgemental.

It's perfectly acceptable to state your point of view, but not in a berating fashion.

Thanks.

I feed about half of my snakes in totes, it works for me, and has for years.

So after doing a little bit of background checking I have noticed a few things.

First gluttony doesn't like to be questioned (or quoted) let alone proven wrong. I am not the only one he has gotten his panties in a twist from.

Secondly I read the rules and am not sure what exactly I broke unless it the disrespect Part. Please clarify.

Finally it seems that you keep mostly garters. Do you Cohab them? Is that why you have to feed half of them in totes?

Co habituating is the only legit reason to feed in a separate enclosure.

[Aaron_S]

So after doing a little bit of background checking I have noticed a few things.

First gluttony doesn't like to be questioned (or quoted) let alone proven wrong. I am not the only one he has gotten his panties in a twist from.

Secondly I read the rules and am not sure what exactly I broke unless it the disrespect Part. Please clarify.

Finally it seems that you keep mostly garters. Do you Cohab them? Is that why you have to feed half of them in totes?

Co habituating is the only legit reason to feed in a separate enclosure.

If you want to question breaking rules I think a private message to Wayne would be more ideal than airing that kind of thing openly on the forum.

Yes, Wayne openly admits to co-habitating his garters, as many garter keepers do.