what would you be willing to pay?

[Terranaut]

For the perfect enclosure.
Let say you have an adult BCI. What would you pay for a 4x2x2 complete with built in heat-thermostat, humidity control, background, fake plants and lighting. All you add is substrate, waterbowl hides and of course the snake.
Also this viv would be fully insulated and the best viv available.
So what would you be willing to pay?
I have a figure in mind but don't want to curve any answers.
I see quite a few people on here spending lots of cash and not getting a fool proof setup. I have been drawing up plans for a be all and end all enclosure for my own snakes and the more I figure it all out the more I think I may build 10 of them and see if there is a valid buisness idea BUT would people be willing to pay for "the best" enclosure available? Well I am hoping to find out now before shelling out a ton of cash to get started.
I built a couple vivs this past summer and learned a lot so I researched high end controlled eviroments for industry and have a great design that is unique to anything available now.
So do I start my own buisness?
Your answers please? How much is too much?
Thanks all!

[Lankyrob]

Personally i would expect to pay about £300 ($480)

[infernalis]

whatever it takes...... My animals mean more to me than money.

[Mark Taylor]

I would want to see it first.

[DeesBalls]

whatever it takes...... My animals mean more to me than money.

kudos to you!

same as wayne, if they need it, i find a way to get it :)

but if its an actual answer you need, i would say around $400 or so

[Aaron_S]

People are willing to pay for such things, just not really in Canada I find.

The price also depends on what kind of thermostat and humidity control is in the enclosure. What kind of heating and other materials are. Could you give me more information like the material and such?

For me personally, when I owned borneo short-tails I would have considered $200 - $250 for "bare bones" and $300 - $500 for the stuff you've added. Again, depends on the quality. If I'm spending good money on caging then I want it to last and be awesome for a really long time.

You seem to have a solid idea Dan but just remember to keep it super functional. That will always sell enclosures if it functions easily.

[DeesBalls]

try and think-

how much will my materials cost? $x.xx
how long will they take to make? xx days or weeks
when its all said and done, how much do i need to sell them for, to be able to make them worth my time?

sure you can sell the for say $500, but if it costs you $400 to make, thats $100 profit, but how long does it take to make the cage...

hope this made sence,if not, i will try and clarify, running on 4 hrs sleep, and 10 hrs at school lol.

[Terranaut]

People are willing to pay for such things, just not really in Canada I find.

The price also depends on what kind of thermostat and humidity control is in the enclosure. What kind of heating and other materials are. Could you give me more information like the material and such?

For me personally, when I owned borneo short-tails I would have considered $200 - $250 for "bare bones" and $300 - $500 for the stuff you've added. Again, depends on the quality. If I'm spending good money on caging then I want it to last and be awesome for a really long time.

You seem to have a solid idea Dan but just remember to keep it super functional. That will always sell enclosures if it functions easily.

These will be without a doubt the best thing anyone has made yet. These will make all other viv (even the popular plastic ones I own) look bad both astheticaly and functionally. It would also have a full warranty and be a single plug. Stackable and available up to a 8x4x4 . I have a truly "out of the box" plan. I wish I could elaborate more but my design has to stay mine.
I might even need a patent :)

[cossiecraig]

Here's my 4x2x16 $220
2 x hides $30 each
1x RHP $120
1x 11" heatape $25

bedding i buy bulk bags 8.0 cu ft $38 ( lasts me atleast a yr )
water bowl $8
2X thermostats $ 220
total $ 691 or very close i may've missed a little GST ! ,that bieng said money really didn't come into it as i researched prior to purchasing the Boa.....no-one was gonna accuse me of putting "the cart before the horse" :p

to add to this it is by far the best enclosure i have owned ,no covering it with foil and wet towels or bricks.....it's all clean looking ,very easy to maintain but most importantly it's working very well for my Boa regarding heat and the humidity is great aswell ......very impressed !

[Donnie]

Personally i would expect to pay about £300 ($480)

It think this is about the right money maybe a bit more. Over here you are looking about £100 for a 4x2x2 melamine (most common type of viv over here) viv, ceramic bulb £15, guard £12, thermostat between £30 - £130 (depending on the type), plants about £20 - £30 (depends on qty) not sure of the price on humidity systems but I would guess at least £50, lighting £45 (again depending on type). I am sure there is a market for it but it would have to be enough to have the essentials but leave enough for each individual to modify to their own taste.

[Terranaut]

Very nice. This is why I want to do 10. I can get my materials for less if I buy that amount.

[Aaron_S]

These will be without a doubt the best thing anyone has made yet. These will make all other viv (even the popular plastic ones I own) look bad both astheticaly and functionally. It would also have a full warranty and be a single plug. Stackable and available up to a 8x4x4 . I have a truly "out of the box" plan. I wish I could elaborate more but my design has to stay mine.
I might even need a patent :)

Shoot me a PM if you want to discuss it in greater detail. I can give you my number. I honestly have no reason or desire to get into that market. I'd just like to hear about it.

Sounds like a solid plan though. I'd consider the weight though too. Not only for ease of moving while it's my home but for shipping costs as well.

[cossiecraig]

Very nice. This is why I want to do 10. I can get my materials for less if I buy that amount.

buying bedding in bulk can save you a lot from what i've learnt ,for example today i was passing "pisces pet emporium" they had coco-husk bricks ,s/moss , plantation soil all on half price......i bought 4 of each for my Blood i don't need the bedding yet as i make up a brick of each at a time and dry it and store it for future ( just moisten when it's needed ) you'll be suprised what you can save just sneaking around and picking up offers as you see them......money permitting of course :)

EDIT ,should you decide to go down the road with your design i wish you all the best okay mate :)

[Gungirl]

We built our 4 x 2 x 2 out of nice oak fully loaded with thermostat and an RHP for under $200... Buying one built I can see $350 ish.

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/KAMacie/Vivs/DSCF0512.jpg

This one is also under $200 when all said and done..

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/KAMacie/Vivs/DSCF0314.jpg

As well as this one.. This one is a 3 x 2 x 3

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/KAMacie/Blitz/DSCF1202.jpg

[red ink]

What's the enclosure material?

$350 for a plug and play 4x2x2 sounds fair....

[MM1]

Question: for something as big as 8x4x4' are you assuming some assembly required after delivery? Something that wouldn't get through most doorways. Since I have zero building experience I would l would love it if there was a high quality option available in the larger sizes. Currently I only have a 6ft Haitian Boa who utilizes every inch of his 5x2x2.5 plastic enclosure, but in the future I would be interested in a slightly larger (not giant) snake and/or medium to large lizard. Given what you see out there currently, a BIG enclosure suitable for a large snake or tegu/monitor that is truly high quality would be worth high hundreds of dollars to someone like me who wants to give maximal space and do it right but workspace/skill to self construct.

[Terranaut]

Great question!!
Yes it would be shipped needing a bit of assembly.
As far as material it will be a plastic with a wood option in parts.
Also, it will be at the higher end of what has been said so far. But I promise when you guys see it you will totaly understand why the extra cost. This will be more plug and play than anything thus far.Seriously just plug it in and set your temp/humidity ,wait a few hours for it to level out and then add your snake or monitor. Will be available for all reptiles. Options for thermostat and humidity controls, all electronics right on the face of the unit. I am also going to test it thoroughly for bith strength and functionality. I think I am going into buisness.
Thanks everyone for your very valuable input.

[KORBIN5895]

One thing to keep in mind from a business perspective is that having too many options will cost you money. You will need to keep a certain level of inventory on hand so you can produce these as quickly as possible. So if you offer several different brands of thermostats then you will be sinking a lot of cash into inventory you will have sitting around for awhile. I would recommend touching base with a brand you like and try hammering out a contract so you can get them at wholesale prices.

[Gungirl]

Ahh a Plastic one.. I would be willing to pay less for. Maybe $150-200 but that is just me.

[Corey209]

Great question!!
Yes it would be shipped needing a bit of assembly.
As far as material it will be a plastic with a wood option in parts.
Also, it will be at the higher end of what has been said so far. But I promise when you guys see it you will totaly understand why the extra cost. This will be more plug and play than anything thus far.Seriously just plug it in and set your temp/humidity ,wait a few hours for it to level out and then add your snake or monitor. Will be available for all reptiles. Options for thermostat and humidity controls, all electronics right on the face of the unit. I am also going to test it thoroughly for bith strength and functionality. I think I am going into buisness.
Thanks everyone for your very valuable input.

If the cage itself had good aesthetic and came with a full set up of heat / humidity management that like you said was on the face of the unit I would pay $300-500.

[Lankyrob]

If it was delivered assembled and i literally just had to plug it in i would pay an extra £100 - £150 easily :)

[Aaron_S]

Ahh a Plastic one.. I would be willing to pay less for. Maybe $150-200 but that is just me.

Interesting...

It costs more to make plastic than wood due to the moulds that need to be purchased and made every so often.

Plastic also allows for a lighter product as well as something that will last longer than wood. It is a superior product overall.

I think your price point is a little low at $150 but I don't know of any that reach the $500 mark either that I mentioned so it would have to fall somewhere in the middle.

[Corey209]

Ahh a Plastic one.. I would be willing to pay less for. Maybe $150-200 but that is just me.

$150-200 for a complete set up plastic cage? It would cost that much in materials to make a nice wooden cage bare bone.

[Gungirl]

Corey I make my own wooden vivs for less than that. If you know what you are doing and how to find deals its not hard at all. I posted pics of a few simple vivs I made for far less than $200.

Maybe it's just me but I really dislike the look of plastic cages and I would never spend much on them regardless of the quality. Also if I didn't know how to make them myself maybe I would be willing to spend more on a plastic one. I don't know...

[Terranaut]

Ahh a Plastic one.. I would be willing to pay less for. Maybe $150-200 but that is just me.
No need to insult me here.
Well a descent thermostat,rhp and a basic light would cost more than that so you are a bit off. These aren't some cheap plastic boxes either. These are going to be the best thing available. A basic empty pvc cage costs $150-$200 so how on earth would a full setup only cost that? Your viv you posted is nice but good luck ever finding one like it for sale complete with heat and light for $300 brand new.

[Little Wise Owl]

I'd be willing to pay within the $400-$500 range but then again, I'd have to see it first.

[Will0W783]

For the kinds of animals I like display cages for (viperids), I've found that I can put together a very awesome set up for under $200 for a large snake, under $100 for a small snake.

I use PM Herps caging. 16"H x 12"W x 12"D = $65 with screen; 20 x 20 x 24 = $120 . Water bowl = $2-5. Fake vines, decorations, etc = $20-25

[Terranaut]

For the kinds of animals I like display cages for (viperids), I've found that I can put together a very awesome set up for under $200 for a large snake, under $100 for a small snake.

I use PM Herps caging. 16"H x 12"W x 12"D = $65 with screen; 20 x 20 x 24 = $120 . Water bowl = $2-5. Fake vines, decorations, etc = $20-25


This comparing apple to appartment buildings. In my first post I clearly said 4x2x2 and with heat ,thermostat,lights,background,decorations ect.
Both you and gungirl have just stated what you build and what it costs but left out all the expensive stuff. Glad you guys can meet your needs for cheap but my question clearly was whay would you pay for the best available viv. If buying the best isn't in your nature that's fine but this thread is not about that. If you have snakes that need their micro climate to be similar to the inside of your home or don't mind misting or manually adjusting settings then this viv will not be for you. Why spend the extra right? But if you want a truly set and forget setup or have tropical snakes but live somewhere very dry or the reverse and live somewhere tropical but have desert reptiles then this is for you. This will be the same jump in quality and functionality as going from an old used fish tank with a hunk of wood on top to a nice pvc viv. It will be expensive but light,functional,complete and inexpensive to maintain plus your snakes will be in perfect conditions all the time and not just for an hour or 2 after misting.
Just trying to keep my thread on topic. Sorry.

[TragicTaste]

Taking into account that you say it would look fantastic and be plug and play, i would assume paying closer to $500 for that size. What would the reliability be like possibly 10-15 yrs from now? Would you be able to offer some peace of mind for somone shelling out a large sum of money?

[Terranaut]

Taking into account that you say it would look fantastic and be plug and play, i would assume paying closer to $500 for that size. What would the reliability be like possibly 10-15 yrs from now? Would you be able to offer some peace of mind for somone shelling out a large sum of money?


I am thinking standard manufacturers warranty on the electronics and 10 yrs on the cage itself. I am going to number the cages and make the warranty fully transferable. Great question.

[TragicTaste]

I am thinking standard manufacturers warranty on the electronics and 10 yrs on the cage itself. I am going to number the cages and make the warranty fully transferable. Great question.

10 yrs certainly sounds reasonable. Im interested to see your final product with this.

[DOBERMAN]

Before I viewed the other responses in this thread, I had figured between 400 and 500. Then as I read on in the posts, it seems this price range has cropped up a few times with other people so maybe this is your answer? If you can build what you are proposing for less than that and still make a decent profit (dont forget your time involved of course) it sounds viable. To sell any number of units, you would of course need to tap into the U.S. market as well. I have been thinking about viv builds for a while now, but I just don't have the time to get into it, so good luck to you.

[Donnie]

I am thinking standard manufacturers warranty on the electronics and 10 yrs on the cage itself. I am going to number the cages and make the warranty fully transferable. Great question.

What is the standard warranty on a plastic viv?

[Corey209]

Even if you can make the best enclosure out there, if you're charging more than $500 for a 4x2x2 no one will buy them especially if the bigger ones go up to $1000. There's no way you'd even be competition to the other plastic cages with very high prices.

[Terranaut]

Even if you can make the best enclosure out there, if you're charging more than $500 for a 4x2x2 no one will buy them especially if the bigger ones go up to $1000. There's no way you'd even be competition to the other plastic cages with very high prices.

Unless mine do something theirs do not.
Gimme a few weeks to get a prototype built and I will pose the same question.

[Corey209]

Unless mine do something theirs do not.
Gimme a few weeks to get a prototype built and I will pose the same question.

What would you be able to do that others can not? You can get a 4x2x2 from most plastic caging retailers fully set up for less than $500.

[Terranaut]

What would you be able to do that others can not? You can get a 4x2x2 from most plastic caging retailers fully set up for less than $500.

Well seeing as that is the million dollar question so to speak you will have to wait to see my prototype. I am not to good at using solidworks so I will be a few weeks. Like I have said this will be the best cage you can buy. It might be too expensive to market but thats why I asked. If I can make it for cheap enouhh to make a proffit then I am going into buisness. If not I am making a few fir ny snakes and thats it.

[Corey209]

Well seeing as that is the million dollar question so to speak you will have to wait to see my prototype. I am not to good at using solidworks so I will be a few weeks. Like I have said this will be the best cage you can buy. It might be too expensive to market but thats why I asked. If I can make it for cheap enouhh to make a proffit then I am going into buisness. If not I am making a few fir ny snakes and thats it.

I would still sell them, but I would only make like 5-10 and see if they sell.

[KORBIN5895]

What is the standard warranty on a plastic viv?

I'm not sure bit I have seen many posts where the manufacturer wouldn't fix problems.

Even if you can make the best enclosure out there, if you're charging more than $500 for a 4x2x2 no one will buy them especially if the bigger ones go up to $1000. There's no way you'd even be competition to the other plastic cages with very high prices.

I actually know a company in Michigan that sells a two 6'x2'x2' stacked for $3800. All of their cages run for over $1000 and they are still in business. I'll post a pic of one I have.

[Terranaut]

I'm not sure bit I have seen many posts where the manufacturer wouldn't fix problems.



I actually know a company in Michigan that sells a two 6'x2'x2' stacked for $3800. All of their cages run for over $1000 and they are still in business. I'll post a pic of one I have.

This I need to see. I looked for vivs like that and found nothing.
Mine will be considerably cheaper :)

[KORBIN5895]

I'll get a link when I get home.

[KORBIN5895]

I finally got home......

Here is the link (http://www.cagesbydesign.com/t-hybridreptile.aspx). I have one of these in a 5'x2.5'x2.5' size.

[Terranaut]

Wow those are pretty amazing. Thanks for the link. Although those are awesome. Wait until you see mine. I have 2 pattents I am working on before I show my design. I have addressed the issue of energy consumption and the ones in the link have not. I see 1500 watts of lights in the one enclosure. The electric co. would think your growing dope.

[KORBIN5895]

Did you see the wooden ones?

[stephanbakir]

Have you checked out Jworlds.net?
Where are you located? I'll be looking for some cages when I get my zoological garden license.

[Terranaut]

I am in Kitchener.

[stephanbakir]

Might hit you up for some cages if I succeed and get the liscense.

[TheSuppishOne]

Gimme a few weeks to get a prototype built and I will pose the same question.

Well, it's been almost 2 months since this post... Any prototypes yet?? =D

I'm extremely interested to hear about these... Especially if they're made from HDPE like the Pro-Line Cages.

[Aaron_S]

Have you checked out Jworlds.net?
Where are you located? I'll be looking for some cages when I get my zoological garden license.

How do you go about getting that?

[Terranaut]

Well I am working on building my prototype, buisness lisence, pattents and renovating a bathroom so things are slow. As far as materials there will be options. You will be able to change colours and materials to your liking when you order.

[stephanbakir]

How do you go about getting that?

Duno if you read french or not, I'll PM you a google translated version.
I'm getting the quebec version, might be different for ON

[TheSuppishOne]

I'm still curious about this. What's your projected time frame?

[stephanbakir]

Turns out I can't have hots here without opening a zoo... Farewell Canada...
Now, to get a TN visa or get married ;)

[smy_749]

Blah blah blah disregard :P

[stephanbakir]

I've already got a great friend in the states I want to know better, long way from marriage though ;)

[smy_749]

Blah blah blah disregard :P

[Terranaut]

Turns out I can't have hots here without opening a zoo... Farewell Canada...
Now, to get a TN visa or get married ;)
So what is the official government definition of a zoo?

[DeadlyDesires]

i was told that a 4x2x2 is too small for an adult BCI?

[Terranaut]

Well it's not. A BCI will climb if you put a branch in there. Many people keep their BCI's in 4x2x16" enclosures. I prefer larger enclosures myself if possible. A 4x2x2 is great but I would go bigger on a bigger snake. I have a 7' male but most top out at 6' and change and would never need a larger enclosure than a 4x2x2 . A big female might need a 6x2x2 so there are many variables but for the most part saying a 4x2x2 is too small is wrong.

[DeadlyDesires]

Well it's not. A BCI will climb if you put a branch in there. Many people keep their BCI's in 4x2x16" enclosures. I prefer larger enclosures myself if possible. A 4x2x2 is great but I would go bigger on a bigger snake. I have a 7' male but most top out at 6' and change and would never need a larger enclosure than a 4x2x2 . A big female might need a 6x2x2 so there are many variables but for the most part saying a 4x2x2 is too small is wrong.


thats what i thought when i was drawing up the plans for my BCI enclosure, me and my man were going to convert a cabinet that is 6'tall 4'wide and almost 3'ft deep and the bottom half would go to his BP and top half to my BCI but everyone was telling me somewhere else that I needed an enclosure that was atleast 6x2x3deep for my BCI.

[Brently]

Gungirl how are you able to build such an enclosure and have an rhp and thermostat for under $200? I am getting ready to build a 6-8ft enclosure for my boa and I am figuring on spending more than that on the rhp and thermostat alone. Am I just finding the most expensive units out there or do you have some sort of connection? We built our 4 x 2 x 2 out of nice oak fully loaded with thermostat and an RHP for under $200... Buying one built I can see $350 ish.

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/KAMacie/Vivs/DSCF0512.jpg

This one is also under $200 when all said and done..

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/KAMacie/Vivs/DSCF0314.jpg

As well as this one.. This one is a 3 x 2 x 3

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/KAMacie/Blitz/DSCF1202.jpg

[Terranaut]

In fact it will cost more for a rhp and thermostat even if you buy cheap stuff. So I have no idea either.

[smy_749]

In fact it will cost more for a rhp and thermostat even if you buy cheap stuff. So I have no idea either.

I've noticed alot of the time when people state costs for enclosures, they tend to forget all the stuff they had lying around, that they didn't have to go out and buy so they don't include it in the costs.

[alexknott]

I've made plans for an enclosure that were less than $250 altogether. For a stack. Priced at Lowes

[Terranaut]

Just an update. I have a prototype in solidworks ;) but my patent application isn't going well. A walk in refridgerator company has a similar pattent now. I have changed my verbage a couple times with no luck. I may go forward and start producing anyway. I will post pics of the first one when and if I give up. Can't wait to show everyone. Unfortunately if you want the best it will cost you. But worth it?? I think so :)

[DOBERMAN]

Looking forward to your big reveal and wishing you the best of luck

[DOBERMAN]

Any updates Terranaut?

[Terranaut]

Yes and no. I have a new position at work and have been putting in crazy hours for a while now. It will taper off a bit in November. I can tell you this. Available in any size you like even if you want a 20' tank. You will be able to adjust cool side temps as well as hot. I also have to purchase some expensive tools. I thought my table saw would do the trick but some of my materials don't cut so well, like glass is one. All equipment is inside the unit so it uses a single plug for power. I am also looking at using a single touch screen control panel. My brother is a software developer manager. He has some very cool ideas as well. I want to make these the best but cost will be reflective of that. Most will complain about the price and potential shipping expense but for those that opt for it will have the ultimate set-up.

[Mikoh4792]

Yes and no. I have a new position at work and have been putting in crazy hours for a while now. It will taper off a bit in November. I can tell you this. Available in any size you like even if you want a 20' tank. You will be able to adjust cool side temps as well as hot. I also have to purchase some expensive tools. I thought my table saw would do the trick but some of my materials don't cut so well, like glass is one. All equipment is inside the unit so it uses a single plug for power. I am also looking at using a single touch screen control panel. My brother is a software developer manager. He has some very cool ideas as well. I want to make these the best but cost will be reflective of that. Most will complain about the price and potential shipping expense but for those that opt for it will have the ultimate set-up.

Touch Screen control panel? That sounds awesome. Wish I lived in Canada.

[Terranaut]

Well I just hope it all works as good as I hope it does.

[Mikoh4792]

Well I just hope it all works as good as I hope it does.

Would you ship to the usa? lol

[Terranaut]

If your willing to pay for it I will ship to anywhere.

[LarryS]

Wishing you the best of luck Terranaut. Looking forward to seeing your product.

As pointed out, the high end cages can go into the thousands, so don't sell yourself short. Even plastic cages can be quite expensive, just look at Habitat Systems prices.
A friend of mine got a quote on a 24" cube from them and if I remember correctly it was over $1000.

Sounds like you have an awesome product in the works!

[Mikoh4792]

If your willing to pay for it I will ship to anywhere.

Better start saving up then..

How soon do you think you'll start? Maybe in a year or two I will need several 4x2 cages.

[erichillkeast]

I have a thought, since the touch input/controller will most likely be a significant cost, maybe you could have two types of units, one with the controller that could be seen as a "master" enclosure, and other "slave" enclosures without. You could then connect the "slaves" to the "masters", provided that you are able to control multiple heat sources from the controller. This would not only help reduce the overall cost of multiple units, but it could potentially make a stack of units more simple to use, because you would have the controls for the whole stack all in one place.

[formica]

some peoples costing for a good plastic enclosure with full setup are wildly optimistic lol i think £500 is far more reasonable for this kind of setup, considering all the parts included

my suggestions regarding the controllers, would be to first offer setups without these features, get some business going with the enclosure itself, this will reduce the potential problems you may face, espcially with software and hardware which is new, offer the controllers seperatly, its much easier and cheaper to replace/repair/send than a hole enclosure - once the controllers have some milage on them, and most of the bugs ironed out and solved, then its worth offering the full package...there will be bugs, no matter how good your brother and his software engineers are! all it will take is a few problems with a few units and u will have significant damage control to do for your brand

[Terranaut]

Great advice. I have found a supplier for a touch screen controller at less than $60/unit and coupled with some of the other control devices I havesourced I should be able to offer high quality temp/humidity control for a very good price. My goal is to make it so the customer gets it home, adds some substrate, sets day/night lihhting,hot side/cool side temps as well as humidity, waits 24hrs and then adds the snake. The only adjustments after initial setup will be where to set up decor or plants.

[formica]

Great advice. I have found a supplier for a touch screen controller at less than $60/unit and coupled with some of the other control devices I havesourced I should be able to offer high quality temp/humidity control for a very good price. My goal is to make it so the customer gets it home, adds some substrate, sets day/night lihhting,hot side/cool side temps as well as humidity, waits 24hrs and then adds the snake. The only adjustments after initial setup will be where to set up decor or plants.

as you are going down the software root, you could add (adjustable) presets for all the major species, make it even simpler to use

[Terranaut]

as you are going down the software root, you could add (adjustable) presets for all the major species, make it even simpler to use

I had even considered having the environment set by area of theworld you are mimicking. Including winter average temp drops.

[B_Aller]

Just a quick heads up from someone who has gone down this road many times and owned two separate reptile enclosure businesses.
You will never cover your costs and make a profit unless you can charge 3X what it costs you in time and materials. The public will not buy enclosures that are priced this way, you will lose money.
Patents are worthless for this type of product, minimum cost for acquiring a patent is $8 K USD. all anyone has to do to copy you is change one color or angle, not worth it.
I set up large scale environmental controls for large and small zoo exhibits and am very familiar with the products and cost associated, I'd suggest that you re-think your approach and costs.
Don't forget that to sell products in the U.S you will need a barrage of permits, licenses and insurance. Any product sold in the U.S that has a plug needs to be UL listed, this is NOT cheap, think thousands of dollars. You will also need E and O insurance (errors and omissions) if you are designing and selling your product in the U.S
I'd suggest building one prototype for yourself and then seeing what the market will bear.
I'd love to see some new innovative enclosure designs hit the market, but I can tell you that it is near impossible to make a living building reptile enclosures, herpers just don't care about husbandry that much, the market is driven by novelty, not care.
I now make my living working for zoo's as they aren't spending their own money, they have a budget for enclosures/exhibits. The herp trade is a minefield for any cage building company.
Cages by design sucks the big one. Check out one in person and give the panels a little push and you will see what I mean.
Good luck.
Ben Aller

[LarryS]

Is it really required that an electrical product have UL listing? I don't think RBI has this on their RHP do they?

Just curious.

[C5Chris]

Yes it is. In Canada you need either UL or CSA approval.

The design sounds pretty cool though. I have been thinking of building my own custom enclosure for my two BRB's (although in the form of a nice wooden cabinet with two enclosures on top of one another) and have been pondering the same variables. Custom heat/humidity control, day/night control, large water reservoir, etc.

I am curious on your energy consumption claims though, as that is a big question mark (and bonus!!) in my mind, and a pretty sweet option if you can do it. I assume it has to do with how the cages are insulated.

However, I realize I won't really be able to program any of that stuff so would probably end up going with decent store bought control packages and just re wiring everything into one plug.

I hope you prototype works out, I am really interested to see it. As far as the whole business model of it goes I think it would be a nightmare jumping through legal hoops to sell them legitimately as a business.

Now as to answer the original question, I spent $250 on my enclosure alone, and that was on sale. Heating pads or heat tape, plus thermostats either store bought or home made would be probably another $100, plus your humidity control, light control.. I would say in Canada, you couldn't find anything like that for $450 or less. Personally, I happen to have a bit more money than most young people with pets and don't mind spending the money to provide the best for my pets.
So myself I would say anywhere between $4-700 is reasonable for a retail price on a fully plug and play enclosure, one stop shop enclosure with a decent warranty and top notch looks and quality all around. However, I don't see them being a big seller at that price, enough to make a living off anyways.

[Terranaut]

Anyone who has a Pro Products RHP....is there a CSA or UL sticker on it? No there is not. Why not? Because they do not come with the male plug end attached. Not an electrical device until this part is added. Same with Flexwatt. You make the connection and not the manufacturer. I have seen people wiring up Flexwatt for people at expos and wondered if they ever realized the potential liability. I have been looking at modifying my design slightly to make it a "kit" for ease of shipping but this may also be the only way to avoid expensive safety approvals.

[B_Aller]

Anyone who has a Pro Products RHP....is there a CSA or UL sticker on it? No there is not. Why not? Because they do not come with the male plug end attached. Not an electrical device until this part is added. Same with Flexwatt. You make the connection and not the manufacturer. I have seen people wiring up Flexwatt for people at expos and wondered if they ever realized the potential liability. I have been looking at modifying my design slightly to make it a "kit" for ease of shipping but this may also be the only way to avoid expensive safety approvals.

You said you were designing and building a "plug and Play" type enclosure, that suggests you will be providing a plug.
You are in for a lot of heartache if you are trying to sell enclosures for $400-$700, you will lose your shirt. Sorry, but I've been there, done that, the reptile trade is fueled by novelty, not husbandry.
I think a reasonable cost for a real set up would be around $2,000-$7,000. USD. Personally I don't touch anything for less than $5,000. effectively scarring off 99.9% of hobbyists (thank god!)
Best of luck.
Ben

[Mikoh4792]

You said you were designing and building a "plug and Play" type enclosure, that suggests you will be providing a plug.
You are in for a lot of heartache if you are trying to sell enclosures for $400-$700, you will lose your shirt. Sorry, but I've been there, done that, the reptile trade is fueled by novelty, not husbandry.
I think a reasonable cost for a real set up would be around $2,000-$7,000. USD. Personally I don't touch anything for less than $5,000. effectively scarring off 99.9% of hobbyists (thank god!)
Best of luck.
Ben

Your enclosures are 5k+?? Do you have any pics of these enclosures? What takes up most of the cost? And are these only for your monitors or do you spend just as much on your snakes?

[Terranaut]

You said you were designing and building a "plug and Play" type enclosure, that suggests you will be providing a plug.
You are in for a lot of heartache if you are trying to sell enclosures for $400-$700, you will lose your shirt. Sorry, but I've been there, done that, the reptile trade is fueled by novelty, not husbandry.
I think a reasonable cost for a real set up would be around $2,000-$7,000. USD. Personally I don't touch anything for less than $5,000. effectively scarring off 99.9% of hobbyists (thank god!)
Best of luck.
Ben

I appreciate your honesty here. Thanks.

[B_Aller]

Your enclosures are 5k+?? Do you have any pics of these enclosures? What takes up most of the cost? And are these only for your monitors or do you spend just as much on your snakes?

I own a naturalistic fabrication company that specializes in animal exhibits and enclosures. I design and build enclosures for all types of animals, from Aardvarks to varanids.
We work in Zoo's and aquariums all over the country.
I generally don't deal with the public and don't advertise to them or hobbyists, and don't want to be seen as trying to advertise my company here, but I'm sure if you tried you could figure out my company name, website, facebook, twitter feeds etc. I have lot's of galleries and posts about my work. In fact I'm launching our newly redone website tonight.
Perhaps you could ask Wayne, he follows me and my company.
Best.

[B_Aller]

I appreciate your honesty here. Thanks.
Thanks, really not trying to be discouraging, I applaud your drive and effort, just ended up penniless several times trying to sell to the hobby.
I wish you all the best.
B

[formica]

A good business plan is the key to making a profit, without it you are just throwing time and money into the wind, esp when the product is available in so many different forms, to suit virtually every budget. The reptile enclosure market is huge, but saturated, which makes it doubly important to plan and research properly

[LarryS]

Terranaut, can't wait to see your prototype.

I build cages as well, but it is more of a hobby than a business. I can't tell you how much enjoyment I get working in the shop making things that other people can enjoy.

To tell the truth, at this point I have spent a lot more money than I have made but every dollar was worth it. I will be in the black eventually.
If you are not doing this as a main source of income, and you can afford the initial outlay, then why not. Many small but important advances have been made by people out working in the garage.

If you are planning on quitting your day job to make a living off of cage building then yes, I would have a well thought out business plan in place and written goals withing reach. And have a back up plan or two. Or three.....

Ben your stuff is amazing.