Rescued BP. Need Advice.

[Vegasarah]

Got a frantic call from a friend last night saying that she just took a ball python out of a terrible situation. I'm the go-to person for anything with scales, I guess. Her boyfriend does odd jobs and was asked to help a guy move. When he got there, he saw the snake in a tank and thought it was dead. It didn't move, and he inquired about it. The man moving was forced to move because his 'dumb bee-word fiancé' dumped him. The snake belonged to her, and she has been gone for ALMOST TWO MONTHS. He had no idea where she went or if she was coming back for the snake. The guy moving said that he hated it and that they could have it. My friend drove over and took it out of the house and brought it home. She called me on her way home, in tears over the state of the neglect this animal was in.

I asked her to send me some pictures and started asking questions about temps, tank size, substrate etc.

Sex: Was told female, not sure if it's true.
Age: Totally unknown, can't even take a guess.
Tank: 30 gal long with screen tank.
Heat: a little bulb (halogen?) and medium UTH.
Temps: Both light and mat on at all times for it's whole life. Not sure other than that info.
Furniture: Calcium sand and one large log hide and a water dish that was dried up and crusted over. Oh, and probably 3 sheds worth of skin and a lot of poop.

I filled a bag up with aspen shavings (all I had at the time), grabbed a mister water bottle, and bagged two fuzzies from the freezer and sped over to her house.

To be honest, I'm a little shocked that she is still alive after seeing her. She's very thin, and had stuck shed over her face, eyes, and top half of her body. So dehydrated she wears her skin like a costume. God only knows last time she ate or drank.

The one good thing was that she was still very active and curious, taking handling okay when we moved her to fix up her tank.

Now she's on aspen shavings, and has her log hide plus another smaller one on the cool side of the tank. We covered the top of the screen with foil except for where the light is to hold in humidity better. Temps now are 95 with the light and UTH on, about 85 with just the UTH on hot side. Cool side has water dish and is 75 with light, 70 without. We have the humidity between 60%-80% and mist to try and keep it closer to that 80.

She refused the f/t but she could have been fed live in the past or might just be too stressed. I know even snakes in 100% health can refuse food for a week after moving somewhere new.

We put a larger plastic tub filled with water and put it in with her and she sat there and drank out of it for at least 5 minutes straight. I got some tears in my eyes, not going to lie. That poor animal was so thirsty, I couldn't believe it.

We got the shower on full blast and got the bathroom hot and steamy, and I very very gently took a soft damp cloth and ran it over her face a few times from her nose down to her body. Her eye caps both came loose, but I didn't want to pull them off, I didn't want to hurt her. So we just let her sit in the steamy room for half an hour in some towels and most of her stuck shed came off, even the eye caps.

We will probably take her to the vet if anyone thinks that it would serve any purpose. I can't get a fecal to do a parasite check till she eats, which I will as soon as that happens. Should we just go straight for tube feeding knowing she has not eaten in 2 months or so? Do we give it a few more days? I think this is just neglect and wrong husbandry plain and simple. I'm afraid a vet visit might stress her more than help, but I'm looking for advice from the experienced keepers on here! I know you guys probably have more insight than the vet, she's competent and very smart, but right out of school and hasn't done much hands-on experience. She works with me and my rescues for close to free, so even if you guys think I should bring the snake in for vitamin injections or fluids I can do so.

Any and all advice is very much appreciated, my friends said that the snake is still active and is moving around, basking, sitting in the water dish, hiding etc. Her skin is already starting to not look so dehydrated. This is only day one so I can only hope this sweet snake pulls through.

[dinosaurdammit]

dont tube feed until you see a vet! this can do more harm than good!!!

[aaron_cg]

Wow, the snake doesn't even look the same from the first picture to the last! Hope she does well with her rehab!

[Vegasarah]

I was just seeing if you guys think she is at that stage yet as far as tube feeding goes. If she won't take f/t by like tuesday night I will try live. I'll do the bucket with the hole in it, that has worked for me I the past with picky snakes. If that doesn't work I'm going to have to try tube. But I'll bring her in regardless if she gets to that point. My vet said she can see her on friday if worst comes to worse.

Anything I should change about this set up?

[Aaron_S]

Other than being super thin it looks to be in good health outwardly. That is of course just from your description and pictures.

Personally, I'd skip the fuzzy mice and goto a hopper mouse. You can try f/t or go straight to live within a couple days.

[Aaron_S]

I was just seeing if you guys think she is at that stage yet as far as tube feeding goes. If she won't take f/t by like tuesday night I will try live. I'll do the bucket with the hole in it, that has worked for me I the past with picky snakes. If that doesn't work I'm going to have to try tube. But I'll bring her in regardless if she gets to that point. My vet said she can see her on friday if worst comes to worse.

Anything I should change about this set up?

Change your attitude with feedings is my suggestion.

You don't need to tube feed at all. Especially if you try feeding twice in a week and this bucket with a hole in it.

It's a ball python, obviously getting over a stressful move. Feed it in it's enclosure. Don't just try something once either...it's about consistency. Even then assist feed BEFORE tube feed. I've never seen a snake survive after it's been tube fed. I believe the tube feeding kills more than help.

I had a baby out of the egg go 3 months without ever taking a meal with no ill effects.

[bcr226]

First off OP, good on you for helping with the rescue. We rescued a male ball python a few weeks back that was in bad shape. He had multiple retained eye caps on one eye and it was infected. We're slowing bringing him back to full health now.

As others have said, don't rush to force feeding. Given that the snake hasn't eaten in a while and may be seriously stressed, I'd lean towards undersized morsels for a couple of feedings. It may be a live feeder. Two of our balls refuse frozen. Lord knows we've tried with them. Don't try to rush the recovery. It's drinking and that's the important thing at the moment.

[Vegasarah]

I've never dealt with a ball python before, glad to know that I won't have to resort to force feeding her. She's just so thin and her skin just feels like saggy and has no elasticity to it. I haven't seen her today, but last night I wasn't too hopeful. Today does look better as you can see from those pictures. And the drinking on her own is great as well. I'll try the live fuzzies if we can't get the f/t to work by Tuesday night. Hoppers I'm afraid might get away from her, she might be too weak to chase anything down or really wrestle with anything. I'm really hoping she is just hungry enough to take those f/t so that she can at least get something in her system because I can't get live till Wednesday.

Thanks for the encouraging words, everyone. I'm just trying to do what I think is right for this little girl. I'll just give her some time before I do anything drastic or bring her to the vet.

[Vegasarah]

And literally right as I post that I get this picture from my friend.

That is a wonderful sight for a worried heart and mind, let me tell you ;)

Just one fuzzie, refused the second one.

When should we offer food again? I heard that ball pythons won't/ shouldn't eat until after they poop? Should I try and give her a hopper next time?

[infernalis]

super awesome!

[SnakeyJay]

It's good that your helping the royal get sorted... One thing I will say is watch that aspen doesn't mold. Aspen has a tendency to grow mold once it gets wet from spraying and these moods are no good for your snake :)

[sws]

also when i got my smaller BP she(say she dont really know =p) was that then and pulled through and was treated in simlier conditions from what i got and she pulled through. Also took me 2 weeks to get her to eat so your doing better then me, good luck hun hope she does as well as ebony did or better.

[Lankyrob]

GIve it a week before feeding again, them not eating til the poop it rubbish :)

Hope it continues to recover - being in ideal conditions is the best thing for it imo :)

[dinosaurdammit]

It's good that your helping the royal get sorted... One thing I will say is watch that aspen doesn't mold. Aspen has a tendency to grow mold once it gets wet from spraying and these moods are no good for your snake :)

its also very dusty! ive had more problems out of that stuff and dust than ANYTHING, my boas always would sneeze with aspon bedding.

[puffinluffin]

Thats so nice of you. Sad to see animals suffer like that. Least she's somewhere to be properly looked after! Sounds like she's in proper care/conditions now. Keep it up and she should make a full recovery.

Kudos

[Will0W783]

You might want to look into a bedding called Keepers Choice. It's a finely shredded cypress mulch. Cypress holds humidity wonderfully, doesn't mold, and is soft for the snake to crawl on. It also doesn't produce dust like aspen does. I keep my carpet pythons on aspen, since they prefer the lower humidity, but my ball python lives on cypress. He has troublesome sheds when he's on aspen.

[Loucifer]

You might want to look into a bedding called Keepers Choice. It's a finely shredded cypress mulch. Cypress holds humidity wonderfully, doesn't mold, and is soft for the snake to crawl on. It also doesn't produce dust like aspen does. I keep my carpet pythons on aspen, since they prefer the lower humidity, but my ball python lives on cypress. He has troublesome sheds when he's on aspen.
I was wondering about the Keepers Choice, myself. Have you ever noticed spring-tais or any other lil critters in that stuff?

[Aaron_S]

5 days. Feed it a bigger meal since it won't take multiples in a single sitting.

[Will0W783]

No I haven't noticed any little critters in Keeper's Choice. THere's another brand of Cypress too...I think its' Forest Blend or Forest Floor? It's also pure cypress mulch. Both are quite good, but expensive.

I did once buy plain cypress mulch from Home Depot...it had these awful fly larvae in it though, and it took about 3 months and throwing out all of the mulch and cleaning cages, putting up fly paper, setting traps, etc. to get rid of them all. They were like fruit flies, except the eyes were smaller.

[Corey209]

No I haven't noticed any little critters in Keeper's Choice. THere's another brand of Cypress too...I think its' Forest Blend or Forest Floor? It's also pure cypress mulch. Both are quite good, but expensive.

I did once buy plain cypress mulch from Home Depot...it had these awful fly larvae in it though, and it took about 3 months and throwing out all of the mulch and cleaning cages, putting up fly paper, setting traps, etc. to get rid of them all. They were like fruit flies, except the eyes were smaller.

Baking the stuff from home depot would get rid of the flys wouldn't it?

[Gungirl]

Most Home Depot mulch is exposed to chemicals.. I know of a few home depots that spray their mulch with insect repellent.

[Philmul]

Just feed it once a week. Give it time to digest. That theory about waiting until it poops is rubbish. They poop every 7 to 10 days. Well done for rescuing it. Looks a lot better on later pics. What reptiles are you used to looking after?

[Vegasarah]

I just thought that cypress would be too sharp since she is so saggy and her scales are dry and stuff. Cloud it poke at her if it's just the regular forest floor stuff? I will try to look for the more finely shredded stuff, that sounds a little better. I need to go to the pet store to get more mice so I will see what they have there.

I will try another mouse, like a hopper, in 5 days.

I own Leopard Geckos, a Crested Gecko, a Golden Gecko, Blue Tongue Lizards, Bearded Dragons, a Sulcata Tortoise, a Tarantula, and a Nile Monitor. I work with a Reptile Rescue and have fostered corn snakes, iguanas, toads, turtles, all kinds of stuff. And I used to live in Australia where I rehabbed lots of injured or orphaned wildlife. But this is my first ball python rescue!

Thanks everyone for the advice, I am really much more hopeful about her recovery. She seems to be more active today. Thanks everyone for the advice.

[Aaron_S]

Cypress won't be too sharp considering the fact that her scales are all still in tact. It's only underweight it seems and it's eating. Should make a full recovery barring anything we can't see.

[Vegasarah]

Would this be better than the aspen? I know this stuff holds humidity pretty well and I've never seen it mold. If it stays moist it doesn't get dusty. I use this in part of my tortoise's enclosure and I think it works pretty well. I have a big bag of this stuff, but should I still go out and get the cypress? Has anyone tried this stuff with ball pythons?

[Aaron_S]

I've never used it but it looks similar to stuff I've seen. Lots of small particles though. I'd just ensure it doesn't have any oils or anything like that.

[SpOoKy]

I've never used it but it looks similar to stuff I've seen. Lots of small particles though. I'd just ensure it doesn't have any oils or anything like that.

I seem to remember Kim (Willow) and a few other people here suggesting this bedding. I have never used it myself but I am sure if an experienced keeper such as Kim uses it then it should be fine.

[Vegasarah]

It's not fragrant or anything. Pretty absorbent, doesn't get too mushy when wet. The little bits go to the bottom after some patting down and shaking around of the tank. I use it in my tort's enclosure with peat moss for a base and that stuff on top. Keeps in the humidity very well. Should I try and keep the humidity at 80 or have it more like at 60?

[Vegasarah]

And also, is the 20 gallon tank an okay size for her? Should I put in like some grape vines for her to crawl on? Does she need the light on top at all? It's not a heat lamp, just a little light in a big plastic fixture. If we could seal up the top a little more I'm sure that would also raise the temp in their a little more, maybe closer to 90 on the hot side and 85 on the cool.

[Aaron_S]

1. Humidity at 60
2. No need for a light. Place it there if you just like the look of it.
3. Cover the lid.

[Vegasarah]

She's pretty small for a ball python, but she doesn't have too much room with that big hide in only a 20 gallon. Do they need more aboreal space and places to climb? Or would I help her my changing her to like a 30 gallon long instead?

[Aaron_S]

She's pretty small for a ball python, but she doesn't have too much room with that big hide in only a 20 gallon. Do they need more aboreal space and places to climb? Or would I help her my changing her to like a 30 gallon long instead?

Put more stuff in there but she doesn't need to climb. Hides don't take up space to them, only to our eyes. It's just a slight incline to them. You should have two hides anyway. Nothing too big. Cozy.

Ball pythons don't like large areas so the 30 gallon will be a bad idea right now.

Honestly, just get the animal to a healthy size and then worry about luxury.

[Vegasarah]

Okay, I just don't want her to stress if she isn't getting what she needs. She only uses the hide on the warm side so far, but I think it's because that is the hide she is used to. I'll just leave it how it is for now as far as that goes, thanks for the advice.

[Aaron_S]

Okay, I just don't want her to stress if she isn't getting what she needs. She only uses the hide on the warm side so far, but I think it's because that is the hide she is used to. I'll just leave it how it is for now as far as that goes, thanks for the advice.

She'll use both eventually. Even then, who cares aslong as she's eating and has the right temps/humidity.

They don't need us to baby them. She'll regulate when she needs. She isn't stressed either, because she's eating ;)

[Vegasarah]

She seems to be doing well so far. The friend that has her is not sure that she can keep her due to her mom being terrified of snakes. (I just don't get it lol) So it's a waiting game right now to see if she will come stay with me till she is at a good weight and can be adopted by someone trusted. Poor dear, she's so nice. Put your hand in her tank and she comes right over and wraps herself right around your hand and wrist. She's probably just glad to be in good healthy conditions for probably the first time in her life.

[Vegasarah]

Turns out her mom couldn't take it any more, so "Voldemort" is now living with me as of last night. I do have another question to anyone still paying attention to this thread:

Is there such thing as feeding her too often? She's taking 2-3 fuzzies a week. I don't have any hoppers, but should I change to those once a week?

[Lankyrob]

I would try to get her onto rats as soon as poss. Something slightly larger than her girth should do it. I prefer teh single larger prey item rather than multiple small items :)

[Vegasarah]

Thanks rob. She's so small that a hopper would already be larger than get girth by a bit. Even a large fuzzie has me a bit worried. But she's just so thin that I think I'm over-worrying. I'm guessing that if she was at a healthy weight she would be a lot bigger girth-wise. I just don't know what to do....

[Aaron_S]

Thanks rob. She's so small that a hopper would already be larger than get girth by a bit. Even a large fuzzie has me a bit worried. But she's just so thin that I think I'm over-worrying. I'm guessing that if she was at a healthy weight she would be a lot bigger girth-wise. I just don't know what to do....

Feed her the bigger meal. She's fine.

[Vegasarah]

Okay, I'll bump her up asap. Could I still offer more than one meal a week? She's seriously starved. Is there a risk of over-feeding even if she is so malnourished?

[Aaron_S]

She's not starved any longer. Just because she eats often doesn't make it starved. Opportunisitic snakes will generally eat frequently because they don't really know when it's coming again.

Feed her the bigger meal once ever 7 days. You can't rush her weight back on. Slow and steady. Honestly, barring anything unseen, she'll be fine in a few months with proper sized meals. Fuzzies, even frequent meals, won't do much.

[Vegasarah]

Okay, you just answered my biggest questions Aaron. Thanks for the help!

[Philmul]

Like Aaron said, she not starved now and just feeding her the right meal once a week will soon get her to the right weight.

[guyabano]

I'm glad someone like you got to her before anything worse happened. Hey, free python!! :)

[Vegasarah]

She is doing well, still active and putting on a little weight at a time. She's eating adult mice every 5 days. She seems pretty happy and a little more feisty, which is a good thing. I'm really glad that she's going to pull through and probably be a very fat healthy snake in no time! :)

[Philmul]

Feeding every 7 days would be sufficient.

[NBLADE]

good job on rescuing him, feeding weekly will be fine, now he has had one meal you can offer larger, as that food is way too small for him, but it is better to get a smaller feed in first if it hasn't eaten in a while, next feed it will happily take something over double that size.

[Aaron_S]

good job on rescuing him, feeding weekly will be fine, now he has had one meal you can offer larger, as that food is way too small for him, but it is better to get a smaller feed in first if it hasn't eaten in a while, next feed it will happily take something over double that size.

You don't read other posts do you?

[NBLADE]

You don't read other posts do you?

I actually did read them, but seems i clicked page 4 instead of 3, so i missed page 3, yet what i posted was relevant to the topic of food sizes and weekly feedings, which was still going on

[Vegasarah]

Probably another silly question, but is handling beneficial or stressful for ball pythons? I only take her out when she starts nose rubbing the glass and moving around a lot in her tank. I think she may be sort of bored in there? Or maybe her tank is just really boring and I should add some branches or something to it? She's plumping up nicely, she is growing into her skin and is alert and active. She shed about 2 weeks ago, one perfect piece. I also feed her in a separate bin, and handling her doesn't seem to cause her any stress. Of course, she is a snake, so one can never be too sure. But as soon as I take her out she either curls up on my chest in a ball or she is slithering all around my arms and torso and anywhere else she can get to.

[Aaron_S]

Probably another silly question, but is handling beneficial or stressful for ball pythons? I only take her out when she starts nose rubbing the glass and moving around a lot in her tank. I think she may be sort of bored in there? Or maybe her tank is just really boring and I should add some branches or something to it? She's plumping up nicely, she is growing into her skin and is alert and active. She shed about 2 weeks ago, one perfect piece. I also feed her in a separate bin, and handling her doesn't seem to cause her any stress. Of course, she is a snake, so one can never be too sure. But as soon as I take her out she either curls up on my chest in a ball or she is slithering all around my arms and torso and anywhere else she can get to.

It's not beneficial. She doesn't seem overly stressed from your description but she probably is on some level. Like all reptiles.

She isn't bored. She doesn't know what that is. She may use her branches but to her it's just terrain and I don't believe snakes "play". Just find a suitable place to be.

I'd feed her in the enclosure but that's just my choice.