Surface and Air Temps

[Calihusker]

Now, we shortly discussed this topic in a thread I posted awhile back, because I thought my PE-2 was a bit off.

This is more focused on the actual subject, but if needed, feel free to merge it back into the other post.

So basically, if I want my air temps to be at 89 degrees Fahrenheit, I set my thermostat to 89 degrees. My probe is right where the heat pad conducts its heat. The probe reads 89 no problem, and my thermostat is proportional. Only problem is that the surface temps become 105 or so... Is this suitable for my boa? Thanks guys.

Cheers.

[poison123]

105 is perfectly fine. He may not use is but it wont hurt to offer it.

[dshin963]

I do not own a boa but I was under the impression that Boas required a 90-95 hot spot... not 105.... and an ambient of 80-85 not 89...(only boa I own is my BRB and they require a slightly lower temp with higher humidity...)

[Calihusker]

I do not own a boa but I was under the impression that Boas required a 90-95 hot spot... not 105.... and an ambient of 80-85 not 89...(only boa I own is my BRB and they require a slightly lower temp with higher humidity...)

I do not want the hotspot to be 105, but it's the only way for my ambient temp to reach 86 :/

(I've had my thermostat set to 86 instead of 89 for the past three days because I don't want to risk the hotspot getting wayyy to hot)

[poison123]

What exactly is the risk if you have a high basking spot if you have a cool spot? I know people who have 100+ basking for there boas and it is used constantly. Anyway have you sealed the enclosure?

[Calihusker]

What exactly is the risk if you have a high basking spot if you have a cool spot? I know people who have 100+ basking for there boas and it is used constantly. Anyway have you sealed the enclosure?

I use bins.

[poison123]

Ah ok i see. And your using a heat pad?

[EmbraceCalamity]

I do not want the hotspot to be 105, but it's the only way for my ambient temp to reach 86 :/

(I've had my thermostat set to 86 instead of 89 for the past three days because I don't want to risk the hotspot getting wayyy to hot)If the ambient is supposed to be 80-85 (just going by what that person said), then why keep it at 86 if you're concerned it's too hot?

~Maggot

[KORBIN5895]

I do not want the hotspot to be 105, but it's the only way for my ambient temp to reach 86 :/

(I've had my thermostat set to 86 instead of 89 for the past three days because I don't want to risk the hotspot getting wayyy to hot)

This is why I prefer radiant heat panels.

[infernalis]

As politely as possible, it's commonly 100+ in those jungles.

I spent 3 weeks in Brasil and it was sweltering there, when I stepped off the first plane in Rio, it felt exactly like it does when I open my monitor cage.

The herps in Ubatuba were quick, they could get out the way fast.

Now, think this through a little, when we see boas and pythons in nature documentaries, we see them moving about hunting and exploring, moving right along.

Why is it considered standard practice to keep them cooler?? is this like the magic number where they slow down enough to be manageable without being low enough to cause harm??

I'm just confused why folks are so concerned about one or two or even 20 degrees.

[Corey209]

As politely as possible, it's commonly 100+ in those jungles.

I spent 3 weeks in Brasil and it was sweltering there, when I stepped off the first plane in Rio, it felt exactly like it does when I open my monitor cage.

The herps in Ubatuba were quick, they could get out the way fast.

Now, think this through a little, when we see boas and pythons in nature documentaries, we see them moving about hunting and exploring, moving right along.

Why is it considered standard practice to keep them cooler?? is this like the magic number where they slow down enough to be manageable without being low enough to cause harm??

I'm just confused why folks are so concerned about one or two or even 20 degrees.

When I had my ATB I had one basking point that was always around 100-105 which was his perch that he enjoyed being by, while the lower end was around 80. He grew at a good rate, ate weekly and shed properly. Reminds me I need to send a message to the guy and find out how the ATB is doing.

I agree with you that temperatures really shouldn't matter for a few degrees but only if you supply a cold side for them to cool off.

Some snakes I think are more sensitive to it though, Al or Viperkeeper on youtube lost a few snakes when one of his devices to control temperatures failed on him.

[infernalis]

Al or Viperkeeper on youtube lost a few snakes when one of his devices to control temperatures failed on him.

Ugh... He posted a video on youtube of a Savannah Monitor tethered to a chair with a dog water bowl.

when I contacted him he went postal, called me an armchair expert and blocked me.

arrogant would be an understatement.

[Corey209]

Ugh... He posted a video on youtube of a Savannah Monitor tethered to a chair with a dog water bowl.

when I contacted him he went postal, called me an armchair expert and blocked me.

arrogant would be an understatement.

I saw that but I had known literally nothing about monitors at the time. He always seemed to know what he's doing but in almost every video does something that seems like it wouldn't be in protocol but I never deal with hots so I wouldn't know.

He seems to be well respected though.

[KORBIN5895]

As politely as possible, it's commonly 100+ in those jungles.

I spent 3 weeks in Brasil and it was sweltering there, when I stepped off the first plane in Rio, it felt exactly like it does when I open my monitor cage.

The herps in Ubatuba were quick, they could get out the way fast.

Now, think this through a little, when we see boas and pythons in nature documentaries, we see them moving about hunting and exploring, moving right along.

Why is it considered standard practice to keep them cooler?? is this like the magic number where they slow down enough to be manageable without being low enough to cause harm??

I'm just confused why folks are so concerned about one or two or even 20 degrees.

The main reason I think we use lower temps is because these snakes don't have 105°f all year long. Yeah it was like that for three weeks but not for the whole year. Most keepers are looking to set a temperature and to leave it.

Another reason why you don't want high temps all of the time is that a snakes metabolism is affected by temperature. So a higher temp will keep a snakes metabolism running at full tilt all the time which isn't healthy for them.

[SSSSnakes]

I saw that but I had known literally nothing about monitors at the time. He always seemed to know what he's doing but in almost every video does something that seems like it wouldn't be in protocol but I never deal with hots so I wouldn't know.

He seems to be well respected though.

So was the Crocodile Hunter and he was the most careless snake handler I have seen. People like to watch careless handlers and call handlers that are cautious sissy for following safety precautions.

[Corey209]

So was the Crocodile Hunter and he was the most careless snake handler I have seen. People like to watch careless handlers and call handlers that are cautious sissy for following safety precautions.

Putting the most venomous snake in the world on your head... but yeah I guess that's true if you can show entertainment without dying people will keep watching.

I'd personally never film while working with snakes that could easily end my life unless someone else was doing it. It appears as if he's doing it from his house and never really shows a whole lot of room to work with because every corner is stacked with cages which also seems unsafe. From what he says he was only tagged once messing with a rattler when he was 18 so I'm assuming he's "safe enough".

[SSSSnakes]

I'm assuming he's "safe enough".

Lucky and safety and two different things. I drive like a maniac most of the time and have never had an accident. I'm lucky, not a safe driver.

[EmbraceCalamity]

The main reason I think we use lower temps is because these snakes don't have 105°f all year long. Yeah it was like that for three weeks but not for the whole year. Most keepers are looking to set a temperature and to leave it.

Another reason why you don't want high temps all of the time is that a snakes metabolism is affected by temperature. So a higher temp will keep a snakes metabolism running at full tilt all the time which isn't healthy for them.That's the joy of temp gradients, though, isn't it? They might rarely use it, but at least it's there in case they need to. I keep my leo's hot side hotter than is usually suggested, and she spends most of her time halfway between cool and hot sides, but sometimes she still does utilise the high temps of the hot side. If it's too hot, they can just move. I'd be inclined to think it'd only be a real issue if there was no temp gradient or it was so hot, it would burn the snake.

~Maggot

[infernalis]

So was the Crocodile Hunter and he was the most careless snake handler I have seen. People like to watch careless handlers and call handlers that are cautious sissy for following safety precautions.


Strong emphasis on WAS.......

Gee, I wonder what happened to him? could it be that reckless behavior finally caught up with him.

[Aaron_S]

That's the joy of temp gradients, though, isn't it? They might rarely use it, but at least it's there in case they need to. I keep my leo's hot side hotter than is usually suggested, and she spends most of her time halfway between cool and hot sides, but sometimes she still does utilise the high temps of the hot side. If it's too hot, they can just move. I'd be inclined to think it'd only be a real issue if there was no temp gradient or it was so hot, it would burn the snake.

~Maggot

I believe people use lower temps because they suck at keeping their reptiles properly.

Reptiles usually put security before temperature and a lot of people weren't using two hides. One on the cool and one on the hot. Just one on the hot or cold. It eventually killed their animal. If the enclosure is set up right with a couple hides and even high temps on one end, I don't see a problem with it. The key (which you've obviously used) is to keep the animals secure anywhere in the enclosure.

Also, I'm biased here, but Mr. Irwin was huge 10 or so years ago. I was but a teen working in a pet store as my first real job. I had a lot of people say they now know how to deal with venomous by tailing the snake. I would correct them that they shouldn't ever do it anyway because Steve was an 'expert'. He did a lot of good for our hobby and community and even though we know better than he did it's up to us to dispell his myths a bit more.

I like to believe his positives outweighed the negatives. He brought lots of new people to the hobby, young and old and I don't mind doing a bit of extra work teaching someone what he did right or wrong because it's just one more passion filled person for our niche place.

Viperkeeper, I've seen his videos. He's bad news. The typical "The rules don't apply to me" mentality because "he's more skilled" than anyone else. As Jerry stated, everyone looks upto him and anyone who goes by all protocols looks like a wimp. Except BWSmith. That guy was a champ of protocol.

[KORBIN5895]

I would love to see the average keeper give their boa a 105°f hot end while providing an adequate cool end.

@ Aaron

How many hides do you provides your snakes?

[infernalis]

I would love to see the average keeper give their boa a 105°f hot end while providing an adequate cool end.

Aren't we supposed to be above the average ;)

It's easy to do Kev, just put a UTH on one end and not the other.

These boa keepers who keep them in fish tanks with big heat lights are not doing it right.

Not only does it make the air parched dry, but turns the whole thing into an "EZ Bake" oven.

[KORBIN5895]

Aren't we supposed to be above the average ;)

It's easy to do Kev, just put a UTH on one end and not the other.

These boa keepers who keep them in fish tanks with big heat lights are not doing it right.

Not only does it make the air parched dry, but turns the whole thing into an "EZ Bake" oven.

Then you wouldn't have enough floor space which means that you would need to invest into some heavy duty climbing branches and or a bigger tank. With everyone trying to keep snakes in tubs I don't see either of those being a valid option.

[Aaron_S]

I would love to see the average keeper give their boa a 105°f hot end while providing an adequate cool end.

@ Aaron

How many hides do you provides your snakes?

0 hides. My bin/racks are hides in themselves. Comfortable yet good temps on both ends.

I get what you're saying but I mean a slightly higher temp isn't going to kill your snake. It's the too low temps or too high all around that will kill them.

[KORBIN5895]

0 hides. My bin/racks are hides in themselves. Comfortable yet good temps on both ends.

I get what you're saying but I mean a slightly higher temp isn't going to kill your snake. It's the too low temps or too high all around that will kill them.

I keep my hot end between 90-93 in the summer which is about 5°f over what most recommend. My snakes are fit and active so I am not worried but to take a third of your floor space and put it at 105°f will really eat up the floor space. Now let's also look at the fact that most people use a tank that's only 12"-18" and that snake is screwed and will roast.

I honestly feel people are doing great harm to their snakes by keeping them at a consistent temperature all year long. I feel all snakes need a cooling down time to give their metabolism a break. When an animal is capable of going months on end without food (and would naturally do that in the wild) that should tell us how their bodies naturally work. When a wild boa takes roughly five years to hit sexual maturity yet in captivity we can hit that in 18- 36 months doesn't that say we might just he rushing their life along too fast?

[Terranaut]

I keep all of my snakes with an area that is slightly excessive. It's a gradient. It should ultimately go from too hot to too cool and the snake can regulate to whatever temp they like at whatever time they like. If they need a boost in digestion or imune system function they can add a bit of extra heat. Wild snakes commonly sit on rocks that are well above the accepted temperature norms for those species so why not provide it in captivity?

[infernalis]

I keep all of my snakes with an area that is slightly excessive. It's a gradient. It should ultimately go from too hot to too cool and the snake can regulate to whatever temp they like at whatever time they like. If they need a boost in digestion or imune system function they can add a bit of extra heat. Wild snakes commonly sit on rocks that are well above the accepted temperature norms for those species so why not provide it in captivity?

Thank you for that....

[Calihusker]

If the ambient is supposed to be 80-85 (just going by what that person said), then why keep it at 86 if you're concerned it's too hot?

~Maggot

I was concerned about the hotspot being too hot, not the ambient air temps, and that it what the thermostat measures.

But, thanks for all the info guys!

I'll just keep it how it is. :p

[Terranaut]

If your hotspot is too hot the snake will move. As long as you have a gradient your fine.

[KORBIN5895]

I was concerned about the hotspot being too hot, not the ambient air temps, and that it what the thermostat measures.

But, thanks for all the info guys!

I'll just keep it how it is. :p

Can we get a picture of your setup and the dimensions? Also can we get the surface area of your heat source?

[red ink]

Now, we shortly discussed this topic in a thread I posted awhile back, because I thought my PE-2 was a bit off.

This is more focused on the actual subject, but if needed, feel free to merge it back into the other post.

So basically, if I want my air temps to be at 89 degrees Fahrenheit, I set my thermostat to 89 degrees. My probe is right where the heat pad conducts its heat. The probe reads 89 no problem, and my thermostat is proportional. Only problem is that the surface temps become 105 or so... Is this suitable for my boa? Thanks guys.

Cheers.


You will not be able to achieve the air temps you want in your setup...
A UTH is designed to heat a surface area for a specimen to lay on.

If you want to affect the air temps from a heat source what you want is a source that has radiant heat emission... like a CHE or a heat panel. They will heat a spot directly under them (a basking spot) as well as affecting air temps through heat radiance.

[Calihusker]

You will not be able to achieve the air temps you want in your setup...
A UTH is designed to heat a surface area for a specimen to lay on.

If you want to affect the air temps from a heat source what you want is a source that has radiant heat emission... like a CHE or a heat panel. They will heat a spot directly under them (a basking spot) as well as affecting air temps through heat radiance.

I'm moving my smaller boa into a rack system soon so I wont be using a RHP or anything like that until she gets larger.

I'm putting the rack into my closet area (It's fairly large but not too large) then adding my personal heater to keep the ambient temps up..

And I'll take some photos tonight if I can get to it.

[red ink]

I'm moving my smaller boa into a rack system soon so I wont be using a RHP or anything like that until she gets larger.

I'm putting the rack into my closet area (It's fairly large but not too large) then adding my personal heater to keep the ambient temps up..

And I'll take some photos tonight if I can get to it.

Why not just tape a 15W heat cord on the roof/wall of the tub and piggyback it onto the thermostat... that'll heat the roof/wall acting like a mini panel?

Putting a heater in a closet sounds dangerous....

[Calihusker]

Why not just tape a 15W heat cord on the roof/wall of the tub and piggyback it onto the thermostat... that'll heat the roof/wall acting like a mini panel?

Putting a heater in a closet sounds dangerous....

I can do that. Thanks for letting me know.

Also the pad I have at the moment is approximately 7"long 6"wide.