throwing up mice!!

[ericschuh00]

My columbian red tail boa who is fairly new keeps throwing up the mice i feed him about a week after she eats. Shes about 1.5 ft. Yesterday was the 3rd time its happened now and since I bought her she hasnt completely eaten a mouse.

I think it is most likely stress induced or maybe the tank is getting to cold at night?

I handled her 2 days after feeding and she threw up the first time but this thrid time i left her a week and then changed out the water so i was messing in the tank and that night she ended up puking up a mouse from a weeek before.

Any thoughts?!

Thanks!!

EDIT- I should add that she is acting completely normal and not doing anything out of the ordinary for a snake (ie. stargazing, skinny ect.)

[Lankyrob]

If you can provide the temperatures of your hot and cold end, how the enclosure is set up (hides etc) theboa keepers should be able to help you :)

[infernalis]

this is usually a sign that it's not warm enough to digest the food.

[Will0W783]

...or that it's TOO warm.


Once you have corrected any/all husbandry errors (temperature, humidity, etc) you will need to go about helping the snake to slowly build back up its stomach acids and intestinal flora. Regurgitating is very stressful to a snake, and they lose a LOT of stomach acids and intestinal flora-- much more than we do from vomiting. There is also a risk of intestinal damage if the snake regurges too many times. Many viperids do not recover once they've regurged 2-3 times, and some pythons as well. I'm not sure of the chances for a baby boa, but they should be fairly good if you take your time with the recovery.
Your best bet is to let the snake go longer than a usual gap between meals. I would say wait at least two weeks if the snake is a weekly eater..or even 2.5 weeks, then offer a SMALLER meal (i.e. if the snake normally eats adult mice, give a mouse hopper). If the snake eats frozen/thawed, inject some probiotics dissolved in Pedialyte into the mouse. Do not handle or stress the snake at all after it eats....wait and see if it can hold the food down.

If the snake keeps that meal down, wait another 2 weeks, then offer another hopper/probiotic meal.

Wait another 2 weeks, then try a slightly larger meal.

Again, the wait time is an example for a snake that would eat once a week. If the snake has been fed normally every 2 weeks, wait 3-4 weeks before the first recovery feeding and between each recovery feeding. If the snake will not take f/t you can't inject probiotics into the mouse.

I've had a lot of luck with this slow reintroduction of food regimen with tree vipers that had repeated regurgitation as well as rattlesnakes that had been starved.

[ericschuh00]

yes i agree that it is to cold after doing research so im going to buy a heating pad to help raise the temperature up a little bit. Temp at day is about 80 then at night it drops down to 70's. I live in wisconsin and its really cold right now so its tough keeping up the temps. Hummidity is really hard to keep steady as well in the winter but im trying to keep it above 40. He has a hide and uses it but is really active mostly. I will wait 2 weeks like stated but im afraid he hasnt actually eaten in over 3 weeks now. Will that be ok?

Thanks alot!

[mykee]

If it is in fact a regurge (which usually happens ion a day or two) then your temps are way too low. A regurge is either a sign of an internal parasite or terrible husbandry.

[Will0W783]

Those temperatures are definitely too cold. The snake is regurging days after eating, because its body is trying to digest, but when it cannot digest the food before rotting sets in, the snake expels it.

Fix the temps, then try the recovery plan I suggested and your little boa should bounce back.

[marvelfreak]

If your having trouble with keeping the temp and humidity up you could move it to a tub or totes with a UTH. Could we see pictures of your set up and what are you using right now for a heat source?

[ericschuh00]

Right now for heating i have 1 white light and a night time red light that are both at 75 watts so I think i am going to upgrade those tomorrow to about 125 watts. If UTH means under tank heater then i just installed one of those today. I also increased the temp of the actuall room so im thinking tomorrow that the heat should be higher then what it is now but if not im goning to upgrade the heating by getting higher wattage bulbs.

Thanks so much for help if theres anything else you would suggest let me know!

[EmbraceCalamity]

Right now for heating i have 1 white light and a night time red light that are both at 75 watts so I think i am going to upgrade those tomorrow to about 125 watts. If UTH means under tank heater then i just installed one of those today. I also increased the temp of the actuall room so im thinking tomorrow that the heat should be higher then what it is now but if not im goning to upgrade the heating by getting higher wattage bulbs.

Thanks so much for help if theres anything else you would suggest let me know!What are you measuring temps with? With a 75 watt it seems like it should be warmer than just 80 - I presume you're talking about the warm side? What're the cool side temps?

UTHs are better. They don't dry the air like lights.

~Maggot

[ericschuh00]

Ya warm side its 82ish with the addition of the UTH now so im hoping it will continue to rise and i just turned the heat on in the room to max.

The main problem is that its winter here in wisconsin and my house is older so its hard to keep the room warm.

Im really hoping the new higher wattage bulb will increase the temp to my desired temp.

Thanks for help everyone.

[EmbraceCalamity]

What are you measuring your temps with? If you put a hide over the UTH, it'll trap the heat in and warm it up pretty well. And if you're going to keep her in a tank with a screen top, you're going to need to cover part of it to keep some amount of humidity in.

~Maggot

[ericschuh00]

I am measuring heat with those petco gauges that everyone says dont work but they seem to be doing decent. The uth is under a log hide for him and he is starting to hang out there more then usual as I type this. The tank is covered with damp towels so the humitidy is looking really good now and the heat keeps rising as we speak because of the uth and raising to the heat in the room.

If it doesnt get to an ideal temp im goin to increase the wattage of light tomorrow.

Thanks so much for the help

[EmbraceCalamity]

I am measuring heat with those petco gauges that everyone says dont work but they seem to be doing decent.How do you know that? What are you comparing them with? Are you calibrating them weekly?

~Maggot

[ericschuh00]

I have 2 of these guages in the room and they are giving me similiar readings thats why i assume they are accurate.

Heres a few pics of him. Letme know what you think of him.

Again thanks for the help

[marvelfreak]

He looks good. I do have a suggestion get a temp gun. You can find them on e-bay sometimes for as low as $5 to $10 bucks plus shipping. Anyone that keeps reptiles should own one. You will be amazed at what your temperatures really are once you get one and use it.

[Aaron_S]

I am measuring heat with those petco gauges that everyone says dont work but they seem to be doing decent....

I just want to LOL at this because obviously there's a problem and the product with the horrible bad reviews is the thing you believe is doing decent? Shake your head.

Once you re-adjust your temps/humidity. I would feed the snake again the next day. No need to wait 2 weeks.

[ericschuh00]

Alright thanks for telling me he looks good because i am just so worried about him. The temp is improving which im really happy about but im still wondering how long i should wait to feed him?

[marvelfreak]

Alright thanks for telling me he looks good because i am just so worried about him. The temp is improving which im really happy about but im still wondering how long i should wait to feed him?
At least two weeks. Aaron just being sarcastic.

[EmbraceCalamity]

At least two weeks. Aaron just being sarcastic.I don't think so. >.>

~Maggot

[ericschuh00]

i can tell right now that he is recovering from throwing that mouse up yesterday because he isnt moving much and isnt sticking his tounge out much. once he starts acting normal again i will try a feeding.

the good news is is that the temp keeps on steadily rising so thats perfect!

Thanks for the help. Your guys are being very helpful

[Aaron_S]

At least two weeks. Aaron just being sarcastic.

Honestly I'm not. It's a snake. It'll be cool within a couple days IF the husbandry is appropriate.

[marvelfreak]

Honestly I'm not. It's a snake. It'll be cool within a couple days IF the husbandry is appropriate.
Ok i am sorry. After i read the first part i just thought your were joking about feeding it a couple days later.

When my BRB did it i try feeding a week later and it threw up again. So i waited two weeks and it threw up again. So then i went to a smaller size and waited three weeks then he finally kept it down. So i always wait at least a couple weeks just to be safe.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Ok i am sorry. After i read the first part i just thought your were joking about feeding it a couple days later.

When my BRB did it i try feeding a week later and it threw up again. So i waited two weeks and it threw up again. So then i went to a smaller size and waited three weeks then he finally kept it down. So i always wait at least a couple weeks just to be safe.Was it because the temps were way too low? And then did you try again once they were fixed?

~Maggot

[ericschuh00]

Was it because the temps were way too low? And then did you try again once they were fixed?

~Maggot

I as well would like to hear this

[marvelfreak]

Was it because the temps were way too low? And then did you try again once they were fixed?

~Maggot
Just the opposite. It was the middle of the summer and even with no heat pad on the windows open and two fans in the room it was 80 to 85 degrees at night. My A/C had went out so during the day it was hitting a 95+ degrees upstairs. This now why my snake room is in the basement it's much easier to control the room temp down there. With rainbows temp over 85 can be deadly. Plus during that time the only thing that change was the food sizes.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Just the opposite. It was the middle of the summer and even with no heat pad on the windows open and two fans in the room it was 80 to 85 degrees at night. My A/C had went out so during the day it was hitting a 95+ degrees upstairs. This now why my snake room is in the basement it's much easier to control the room temp down there. With rainbows temp over 85 can be deadly. Plus during that time the only thing that change was the food sizes.Can being too hot cause them to regurgitate? Or was it due to prey sizes? Or a combination? 'Cause you said the snake only stopped doing that once you gave her smaller prey; didn't necessarily have to do with the period of time. I'm just not sure how your experience really translates to this situation. I'd be curious to know if someone actually had this exact experience - their temps were too low, then they got them fixed - and whether or not the snake ate properly shortly thereafter.

~Maggot

[Aaron_S]

Can being too hot cause them to regurgitate? Or was it due to prey sizes? Or a combination? 'Cause you said the snake only stopped doing that once you gave her smaller prey; didn't necessarily have to do with the period of time. I'm just not sure how your experience really translates to this situation. I'd be curious to know if someone actually had this exact experience - their temps were too low, then they got them fixed - and whether or not the snake ate properly shortly thereafter.

~Maggot

Gregg M has a number of posts in a thread stating just that. He usually feeds next day if his hognoses regurge. I have no idea what thread that was.

[Lankyrob]

To the op - in the pic that shows the temp guage itis at least four inches off the top of the substrate, so you are not measuring the temps where the snake is, you are measuring the temperature of the glass higher up.

An infra red temp gun is one of the best purchases any reptile keeper can make except a thermostat imo :)

[Mark Taylor]

Honestly I'm not. It's a snake. It'll be cool within a couple days IF the husbandry is appropriate.

I have to disagree. Wait till the enclosure is at correct temps once it is wait 10 to 14 days then try a small feed. This is done so that the acid in it's stomach can rebuild and so it can digest it's food properly.

[marvelfreak]

Can being too hot cause them to regurgitate? Or was it due to prey sizes? Or a combination? 'Cause you said the snake only stopped doing that once you gave her smaller prey; didn't necessarily have to do with the period of time. I'm just not sure how your experience really translates to this situation. I'd be curious to know if someone actually had this exact experience - their temps were too low, then they got them fixed - and whether or not the snake ate properly shortly thereafter.

~Maggot

To answer your question both. Rainbow are very heat sensitive compare to other boas.
Actually you had some really good question. I got me thinking he did do it twice this last summer two. So i went back and looked through all he records. (something everyone should keep) When he did it this summer the it turn out his heat pad had stopped working.
It started when I fed him and 3 days later he threw it up. I wait two week my next regular fed night and try again second time he went five day then threw up. The first time i thought it was because i up his food size. The second time i had went back to the smaller size and he still did it. That when i checked his temp and realize the pad had stop working. I should have check temps the first time he did it. I waited three day with heat then fed again and he keep it down. My rainbow is the only snake i ever own that has throw up rats.

Side note the room temp this last summer was 72 to 75 degrees. So with Rainbows to much or not enough heat can easily make them throw up. At least in my experiences.

[Aaron_S]

I have to disagree. Wait till the enclosure is at correct temps once it is wait 10 to 14 days then try a small feed. This is done so that the acid in it's stomach can rebuild and so it can digest it's food properly.

What? That's stupid. It doesn't need to re-build anything. These bodies are built to last. It's already "re-built".

Can you prove to me why other people DON'T do this with no ill effects?

[Gregg M]

I have to disagree. Wait till the enclosure is at correct temps once it is wait 10 to 14 days then try a small feed. This is done so that the acid in it's stomach can rebuild and so it can digest it's food properly.

Hey Mark,

Lets say you feed your boa every 10 to 14 days. Last feed went down fine. Now, its time to feed again. 3 days later it regurges. So now you wait another 14 days to try and feed it again. That is now close to a month your snake has not had a meal and it has been sitting at regular active temps. To me, that is not good.

I am with Aaron on this. Snakes do not need to "rebuild" their stomach acids. Acids will only be "activated" once a prey iten starts to be swallowed. A snakes stomach does not hold stomach acids. The stomach is lined with glands that release the acid once a prey item hits it. They will continuously prodouce acid to break down the prey. They do not run out of acid just like we do not rum out of saliva and venomous snakes do not run out of venom. There is NO need to wait that long to feed a snake after a regurge. If a snake can not hold down a meal and properly digest it a couple of days after a regurge, it is not because the snakes body is not able to do it. It is because the keeper is not providing the snake with what it needs to do what it does naturally.

[ericschuh00]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

After adding the uth the temp is looking really good and sahl the boa is looking really good.

Ill wait a few days to feed and im going to try a pinkie so it should be easier to handle.

[Ivanator]

I would raise the temps because there should not still be a mouse in her after a week. For such a young boa it should only take a few days for it to digest.

[shaunyboy]

edited

because the question of stomach acid had already been answered

cheers shaun