Vet visit

[Trollbie]

So I've been MIA lately, sorry. My life is sort of a mess right now...

But anyway...

Esmeralda, my BP, came down with an RI so I took her to the vet yesterday. before the vet took a look at her she asked basic husbandry questions. I have Esmie on aspen and the said I should take her off of it and use a non-wod substrate because the aspen will cause respiratory issues down the line. I've heard this about other wood, but aspen?

She also said that I need to provide a UVB (or UV?) light. That snakes need it. This is the first time I've heard that too. So at this point I'm a little concerned about her reptile knowledge.

When she finally looked over, she diagnosed her with an RI, stomititis, and dehydration. The dehydration because she is all wrinkly since she's overdue for a shed (I figured she may have felt too weak from being sick to shed and that's why she hadn't yet). But her eyes weren't dented, and she always has fresh water in her cage and the humidity is in the 70s%. So it it possible she's actually dehydrated? I soaked for almost an hour today and the skin on her chin started to come off so hopefully she'll finally shed... They also gave her a fluid injection in her belly yesterday.

For the stomitis, they gave me eyedrops to put in her nostrils every day for 2 weeks. It's Gentamicin, which I heard is good stuff, so I'm not complaining about that. For the RI she gave me a Baytril suspension (banana flavored lol) to give her every day for 3 days. The dosage is 0.02mls, but she gave me enough to last at least 2 weeks. Is 3 days enough though? I consulted one of the members here, and he said I should give it to her for 5 days instead. What does everyone else think?

She also got a mite injection since I haven't been able to completely get rid of the mite infestation I had a month ago...


I have mixed feelings about the visit, so I wanted to get some opinions from the experienced members here. Thanks in advance!

[KORBIN5895]

I have never heard of a mite injection
How did she infect the water into the stomach?

[Trollbie]

I have never heard of a mite injection
How did she infect the water into the stomach?

It was an Ivermectin injection for the mites. (I've never heard of it either)

I'm not really sure if they got it in her stomach. They just said that they injected it in in her belly area

[Aaron_S]

I feel incredibly sorry for you.

After the vet said "snakes need UVB" I would have bagged my snake and went home.

I really hope your snake doesn't die from the mite injection. That's pretty much injecting permethrin right into the snake so that when the mites bite the snake and feed from it they then eat the insecticide and die. That's a seriously drastic measure to take. You should have sent me a PM for more serious help.

You can't inject bayatril every day for 3 days! A course of bayatril is once every 3 days for 21 days. That's a basic course for 7 injections total. An injection a day will likely destroy your snake'd kidneys.

You need to find a vet who would have done a culture instead of just applying a general medicine that is now found to not work as well. It's actually ineffective for RI's. A culture would allow you to find out what the bacteria is.

Again, I wish you could have come to some of us first. It's sad this has happened and hopefully it's not too late for your snake.

[Trollbie]

I feel incredibly sorry for you.

After the vet said "snakes need UVB" I would have bagged my snake and went home.

I really hope your snake doesn't die from the mite injection. That's pretty much injecting permethrin right into the snake so that when the mites bite the snake and feed from it they then eat the insecticide and die. That's a seriously drastic measure to take. You should have sent me a PM for more serious help.

You can't inject bayatril every day for 3 days! A course of bayatril is once every 3 days for 21 days. That's a basic course for 7 injections total. An injection a day will likely destroy your snake'd kidneys.

You need to find a vet who would have done a culture instead of just applying a general medicine that is now found to not work as well. It's actually ineffective for RI's. A culture would allow you to find out what the bacteria is.

Again, I wish you could have come to some of us first. It's sad this has happened and hopefully it's not too late for your snake.

Well I hope they didn't give her too much then... :(

They gave me Baytril suspension to give her orally. She said it's cheaper than the injections and works just as well. And since Esmeralda is small, it won't be too hard to give it to her. The vet wants to see her again in 2 weeks, but I hope she's better by then because I'm hesitant to go back there. I only went there because I found the place on the Herp Vet Connection.

Next time I'll PM you first.

[Aaron_S]

Just so you know ORAL does NOT work just as well.

The medicine now has to filter through the kidneys losing it's effectiveness when given orally. An injection doesn't go through the kidneys, it goes into the blood stream and 100% of the medication makes it into the body.

I would not go back in 2 weeks. I would search out another vet that WILL do a culture. It is the BEST thing to help your snake. Your snake isn't going to be better in two weeks based on this vet's ways.

The reason I say bayatril is bad in this case because it may kill 90% of the bacteria and you will see the snake no longer having symptoms. To your eyes it is fully recovered. Two weeks later, the symptoms will come back because now the bacteria has re-grown and it will be stronger and most likely kill your snake. You MUST get a culture.

[Trollbie]

Just so you know ORAL does NOT work just as well.

The medicine now has to filter through the kidneys losing it's effectiveness when given orally. An injection doesn't go through the kidneys, it goes into the blood stream and 100% of the medication makes it into the body.

I would not go back in 2 weeks. I would search out another vet that WILL do a culture. It is the BEST thing to help your snake. Your snake isn't going to be better in two weeks based on this vet's ways.

The reason I say bayatril is bad in this case because it may kill 90% of the bacteria and you will see the snake no longer having symptoms. To your eyes it is fully recovered. Two weeks later, the symptoms will come back because now the bacteria has re-grown and it will be stronger and most likely kill your snake. You MUST get a culture.

I wish my old vet wasn't 7 hours away... How do I find a better vet? I didn't read anything bad on this animal hospital, that's why I vent there :(

[Aaron_S]

Sometimes people don't post information on them or they don't know themselves.

I honestly don't know of a proper vet but I hope you can find one in your area. Look for any universities in the area that may have a good zoology program with vets to see the animal or recommend one.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Have you tried calling other vets in the area? I asked the vet place we take our cats and dogs to if any of them had experience with reptiles, and they said no, but they pointed me in the direction of someone who (allegedly) did. (Though, I know the guy and how much of a giant douche he is, so I wouldn't trust him.) But a few weeks later I went back into the place and they'd just gotten a new vet with some reptile experience. It can't hurt to ask around.

~Maggot

[Trollbie]

Have you tried calling other vets in the area? I asked the vet place we take our cats and dogs to if any of them had experience with reptiles, and they said no, but they pointed me in the direction of someone who (allegedly) did. (Though, I know the guy and how much of a giant douche he is, so I wouldn't trust him.) But a few weeks later I went back into the place and they'd just gotten a new vet with some reptile experience. It can't hurt to ask around.

~Maggot

I got a list of herp vets in my area from the Herp Vet Connection. This one was just closest to me :/ I'm looking at a vet that's out of my area now. I'm gonna call them first thing on Monday

[EmbraceCalamity]

I got a list of herp vets in my area from the Herp Vet Connection. This one was just closest to me :/ I'm looking at a vet that's out of my area now. I'm gonna call them first thing on MondayBut I mean check vets that aren't on Herp Connection. I looked for ones in my area and we didn't have any, but I asked around and found that one, and then another one showed up a few weeks later. It's a slim shot, but at least if you do find one, now you know what to look for to see if they're legit.

~Maggot

[Trollbie]

But I mean check vets that aren't on Herp Connection. I looked for ones in my area and we didn't have any, but I asked around and found that one, and then another one showed up a few weeks later. It's a slim shot, but at least if you do find one, now you know what to look for to see if they're legit.

~Maggot


I did. I called a bunch of places around and they all wanted an arm and leg just for the initial exam...

I think I just found a vet. It's kind of a long drive, but based on his yelp reviews, it seems like that should've been the vet I went to in the first place...

[Lankyrob]

Have you any local zoos that keep reptiles? If so ring them and ask them what vet they use.

I am lucky in that my local vet is THE vet that the zoos in the south west of the UK use so should i ever need one i have a good one.

Hope things get sorted for you soon :)

[Trollbie]

Have you any local zoos that keep reptiles? If so ring them and ask them what vet they use.

I am lucky in that my local vet is THE vet that the zoos in the south west of the UK use so should i ever need one i have a good one.

Hope things get sorted for you soon :)

I don't really have a zoo close by, but the vet I found is the official vet of one of the surrounding county's reptile rescue.

[dinosaurdammit]

Have you any local zoos that keep reptiles? If so ring them and ask them what vet they use.

I am lucky in that my local vet is THE vet that the zoos in the south west of the UK use so should i ever need one i have a good one.

Hope things get sorted for you soon :)

I got lucky with my vet too. With my boa sick most vets would say ibd kill it n be done. Not mine. Its the specilist that works for tucson zoo and the desert meusum. Its hard to find a good vet but once you do you'd do good to befriend them and grasp on for dear life

[Kari]

Just so you know ORAL does NOT work just as well.

There are some serious down-sides to injectable baytril as well. Sure, its not as potent - which is why you should always follow through on the whole course of antibiotics rather than stopping when the symptoms disappear. When Baytril is injected it actually kills tissue in the surrounding area. In reptiles and birds this is a greater concern than when administering a similar dose to a mammal. That may be why the vet decided to go with oral.

Ivermectin is frequently used to fight off mites and other nasties in mammals, but I've never given a dose to a reptile so I can't really comment on if the medicine affects snakes differently. It's possible the vet decided on that course of action as a result of failed attempts using less potent treatment methods. That's just speculation though.

As for the fluids, it sounds like the vet gave your snake a subcutaneous (SQ) injection. It's a very common and shouldn't cause any problems whether or not your snake was actually dehydrated. I work in wildlife rehab and we frequently give our patients fluids on intake as a precaution.

I hope that is able the ease your worry a little over the visit. I agree that it sounds like the vet doesn't have much experience with reptiles though. Good luck in finding a more knowledgeable individual in the future.

[shaunyboy]

i and a lot of Carpet Python Keepers i know,stopped using Aspen,as it was causing mild respiratory issues,with some of our Carpets

i'm NOT being cheeky,but your vet knows nothing about reptiles

i have found a lot of vets,with little or no reptile knowledge will not admit it,they just soldier on using your reptiles as guinea pigs,for their guess work

you need to find a new vet

re Baytril
i preffer to use Oral Baytril...

i use an infant baby feeding tube,cut to the appropriate size,with a syringe,imo works just as well and is far less invasive,than sticking needles in a snake

cheers shaun

[mykee]

Oral antibiotics (as opposed to injections) do not allow for full drug efficacy. Yes, injections of Baytril have been known to cause transient local tissue reaction but far outweigh the negative effects of usefullness of administration. Personally, I feel that there are far more effective Quinolone-class drugs (Gen 2 or Gen 3) but given the situation and the clearly unknowledgeable vet used, an injection once every three days for 21 full days would have been more useful.

[shaunyboy]

Oral antibiotics (as opposed to injections) do not allow for full drug efficacy. Yes, injections of Baytril have been known to cause transient local tissue reaction but far outweigh the negative effects of usefullness of administration. Personally, I feel that there are far more effective Quinolone-class drugs (Gen 2 or Gen 3) but given the situation and the clearly unknowledgeable vet used, an injection once every three days for 21 full days would have been more useful.

^^^^^
like you Mykee...

i would preffer to have a tracheal wash done,to identify the exact problem,and best treatment method

cheers shaun

[Kari]

Oral antibiotics (as opposed to injections) do not allow for full drug efficacy.


Thanks for the correction. I meant to write: Sure, its [oral medication] not as potent - which is why you should always follow through on the whole course of antibiotics rather than stopping when the symptoms disappear.

[Trollbie]

So should I continue giving her the baytril for more than 3 days? Because I won't be able to go to a different vet till Wednesday because it's kind of far from my house and I work Monday and Tuesday.

[Kari]

It's never advisable to cut short a course of antibiotics because it can lead to bacterial resistance. Stick with it. Baytril is effective in treating RIs. If you end up visiting another vet they can advise you on the appropriate course of action- and whether or not they recommend switching antibiotics or the method of delivery.

[Trollbie]

It's never advisable to cut short a course of antibiotics because it can lead to bacterial resistance. Stick with it. Baytril is effective in treating RIs. If you end up visiting another vet they can advise you on the appropriate course of action- and whether or not they recommend switching antibiotics or the method of delivery.

The vet said 3 days. I'm asking if I should go longer because 3 days doesn't seem long enough to me...

[Kari]

Hmm... It does seem short. Where I work we typically give baytril orally for 10-14 days.

What is the dose and concentration? Perhaps the vet opted for a shorter course at a higher concentration than we use.

Hopefully someone else on this thread can chime in with their perspective as well.

[Loucifer]

I wish my old vet wasn't 7 hours away... How do I find a better vet? I didn't read anything bad on this animal hospital, that's why I vent there :(

Check this out. Just scroll down and select your state or whatever. Hope this helps. Herp Veterinarians (http://www.anapsid.org/vets/)

[SnakeyJay]

I wish you the best of luck mate...
I got lucky with my herp vet, she's got 20 of her own snakes and plenty of lizards so I know that she's going to give me good advice/treatment :)

[Trollbie]

Hmm... It does seem short. Where I work we typically give baytril orally for 10-14 days.

What is the dose and concentration? Perhaps the vet opted for a shorter course at a higher concentration than we use.

Hopefully someone else on this thread can chime in with their perspective as well.

It's a 50mg/ml suspension and the dose is 0.02mls

[Trollbie]

So I made her an appointment with a different vet for Thursday, but do you guys think I should keep giving her the baytril till then? Yesterday was the last dose that the previous vet prescribed but it does seem like 3 days isn't enough. I really need your input because I want her to make it through Thursday. Thank you!

[KORBIN5895]

I would give it to her every other day until the vet visit.

[Trollbie]

I would give it to her every other day until the vet visit.

Thanks!

Also, is her poop supposed to smell like hospital? My guess is that it's because of the medicine, but I want to make sure it's not something I need to worry about.

[KORBIN5895]

That's from the baytril killing all of the bacteria in her stomach.

[Kari]

I don't know your snake's weight, but at that dosage it shouldn't be a problem to continue the baytril daily until the next vet visit.

This must be a stressful situation for you and I commemorate your dedication to your snake and making sure it gets the best care possible. It sounds like you are keeping close track of the health of your snake and as long as you are able to monitor it and make sure that the symptoms are not getting worse, than you are following the right course of action.

Cheers,
Kari

[Trollbie]

I don't know your snake's weight, but at that dosage it shouldn't be a problem to continue the baytril daily until the next vet visit.

This must be a stressful situation for you and I commemorate your dedication to your snake and making sure it gets the best care possible. It sounds like you are keeping close track of the health of your snake and as long as you are able to monitor it and make sure that the symptoms are not getting worse, than you are following the right course of action.

Cheers,
Kari

She's still a baby. Around 95 grams. She is probably too light for her size, but she was sort of a rescue so she wasn't at her ideal weight when I got her. But she's been getting fatter so hopefully she'll catch up once she's not sick anymore.

And thank you. Although I wish I would have gone with my gut feeling and left that vet before she even looked at my snake. :( lessons learned. My snakes are my kids, so I'm trying to do the best I can for them.