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Wildside
01-05-13, 08:37 PM
My golden rule of tank maintenance: Only clean it when absolutely necessary.

As a Pet Shop owner I would always hear "My fish always die."
The first questions I asked is, "Well how much are you feeding them?"
Most of the time the answer was, "2 or 3 times a day."

So here's the deal, I know that is what the fish food says but that is a good way for the fish food company to sell more fish food. The truth is most people will shake the container across the top of the tank several times a day. This is a big No-No. The uneaten food rots in the bottom causing nitrites/nitrates to spike and producing more ammonia than the fish waste alone. Sometimes this causes the pH to take a dive into unruly acidic levels. Either of these factors or the combination of the two are deadly to fish.
My recommendation: Feed your fish a healthy pinch every other day.

Since we just talked about nitrates let me go ahead and explain filtration. Most of those who keep fish will use a filter that has some sort of sponge and a carbon insert. Carbon helps to removes harmful impurities and helps to keep a crystal clear, odor free fish tank. If your tank get cloudy or starts to smell it's probably time to change the carbon. *Cloudy tanks can also be a sign of overfeeding. The sponge is a place for beneficial bacteria to grow. This bacteria breaks down harmful nitrites/nitrates minimizing the chance of ammonia or pH inconsistencies. Using tepid water rinse the sludge off the sponge as needed but it's a good idea to replace it before it begins to fall apart. I replace them about every 6 mos. DO NOT replace the sponge and carbon at the same time. Replacing the filter media all at once can cause major problems for a well cycled tank.

Cycling the tank is a very important step that needs to be taken before purchasing fish. This means you need to set the tank up, put water in it and get the filters running. You can put a little fish food in to get the bacteria growing. Or you can seed the filter by placing substrate from a thriving tank in a media bag in the filter. There are also numerous products you can buy that will help to speed up the cycling process. The tank needs to be up and running at least 48 hrs. preferably more, before adding fish.

When you purchase fish, do not buy sick fish! Look for clamped fins, pale color, heavy breathing, cloudy eyes, fungus or blemishes. If there are dead fish in the tank don't buy from that tank. The best Pet Shops will have separate filtration in every tank. Make sure that you quarantine when adding new fish. Better safe than sorry!

Aaron_S
01-05-13, 09:02 PM
Good write up.

I personally feed my fish once a day a small pinch. I go away sometimes or just do ridiculous hours at work and let them fend for themselves. I know there's algae on the driftwood and they pick at that too so I have no reason to believe they need more food. I did make the mistake of overfeeding though at the start and I lost a couple giant danios that way.


I would recommend also researching your species of fish before going to the store, just like any other pet. I know pale colour is a no-no but when looking into a tank full of red-tail black sharks they are all pale/dull because they hate being together. I knew this ahead of time and when I brought mine home and in a proper aquarium he flourished and looked very striking!

StudentoReptile
01-05-13, 09:15 PM
I had 25 fish in a 30 gal planted FW tank. I fed it once, maybe twice a week. My fish were fat and didn't die while in my care.

Aaron_S
01-05-13, 09:17 PM
I had 25 fish in a 30 gal planted FW tank. I fed it once, maybe twice a week. My fish were fat and didn't die while in my care.

Key word...planted...

I love me a FW planted tank. I wish I could own my discus tank.

RandyRhoads
01-05-13, 09:18 PM
Informative post, thanks. Luckily I don't have to worry about over feeding as I only feed once every 5 days or so.

My filter has the active carbon built in the sponge, it was so gross I finally just chucked it. I have a good amount of live rock/sand, should I be ok, or do I need to do something now that I screwed up?

BryanB
01-05-13, 10:15 PM
Informative post, thanks. Luckily I don't have to worry about over feeding as I only feed once every 5 days or so.

My filter has the active carbon built in the sponge, it was so gross I finally just chucked it. I have a good amount of live rock/sand, should I be ok, or do I need to do something now that I screwed up?

Just replace the carbon pad and you will be fine I always suggest just never clean the tank and filter in the same week it can be a big shock to the good bacteria and crash a tank I assume you have salt. Wildside please correct me if i am wrong i have not had a tank in about 3 years.

EmilyS
01-05-13, 11:23 PM
My golden rule of tank maintenance: Only clean it when absolutely necessary.

Are you talking about the filter/filter media, or the tank itself/water changes? I do 50% water changes weekly on all my tanks, and have been recommended to do so (or AT LEAST 25%) by many people and many websites.

Wildside
01-05-13, 11:31 PM
Are you talking about the filter/filter media, or the tank itself/water changes? I do 50% water changes weekly on all my tanks, and have been recommended to do so (or AT LEAST 25%) by many people and many websites.


Both... Every time you mess with the tank you disturb the established ecosystem. Even doing water changes alters is slightly.

I wrote that quite a while ago and there are some more things I should've touched on. One being that dechlorination is a myth and a waste of money.
Honestly the small amount of chlorine that comes from your tap (you know the one that doesn't ever hurt you) evaporates within 24 hrs. I consider my "water change" refilling the tank after it evaporates a few inches. I do it straight from the tap. For those of you who are slightly appalled let me tell you why this is good. The small amount of chlorine you're adding to your tank doubles as pesticide. So anything that may come in off new fish/plants gets obliterated.

EmilyS
01-05-13, 11:44 PM
Watch out- newbie who thinks she knows it all ;)

While I agree that messing with the tank- no matter what you do- affects the ecosystem, some things are so small that the ecosystem will bounce back almost immediately, and some things are good for the ecosystem.

Most of the beneficial bacteria is in the filter media; a small amout resides in the water/gravel/decoration...etc. While doing a water change does take away some of the bacteria, the amount is so small that it won't matter and the beneficial bacteria in the filter media will (in an established tank) be more than enough to hold the cycle. Water changes also help to remove ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates; too many of these can be deadly to fish.

As for dechlorination, I disagree. Chlorine/chloramines can be deadly to fish. Back when I first started keeping aquariums, there were a couple times when I forgot to add a dechlorinator. I could definitely see a change in the fish- they were breathing rapidly, laying on the gravel, some getting stuck to the filter intake- and a couple even died. A dechlorinator is a must.

RandyRhoads
01-05-13, 11:48 PM
\ A dechlorinator is a must.
If you're using garbage water to begin with.

EmilyS
01-06-13, 12:21 AM
If you're using garbage water to begin with.

Chlorine is found in tap water, so unless you have some kind of purifier that removes chlorine, it's going to be there.

RandyRhoads
01-06-13, 12:25 AM
Chlorine is found in tap water, so unless you have some kind of purifier that removes chlorine, it's going to be there.
Yeah, garbage water. You don't use RO/DI water? I wouldn't get tap water anywhere near my tank. So many disgusting chemicals in general....

Lankyrob
01-06-13, 07:47 AM
When we had our guppy tank i used water out our rainwater butt, sieved it a few times to get rid of the floating debris and then warmed it to about the temp of the tank. I would find that about an inch of water would be lost through evaporation during a one to two week period and would just top up using the same process. I never did water changes, i washed the filter and only replaced it once a year and i used snails to keep the tank clean.

I would have constant breeding, lots of variety in terms of ages of the fish. When one died i Left it in the tank and let the snails/other fish eat it. I ran it this way for about five years, then i got into snakes and needed the space. I fed fish flake twice a week, just a generous pinch.

So i gave the tank to my father in law. He is totally anal about the tank being spotless, removed dead fish, switched 10% of water every week, changed the filter monthly etc, all the fish died within three months with NO breeding taking place at all.

Trent
01-06-13, 09:12 AM
Both... Every time you mess with the tank you disturb the established ecosystem. Even doing water changes alters is slightly.

I wrote that quite a while ago and there are some more things I should've touched on. One being that dechlorination is a myth and a waste of money.
Honestly the small amount of chlorine that comes from your tap (you know the one that doesn't ever hurt you) evaporates within 24 hrs. I consider my "water change" refilling the tank after it evaporates a few inches. I do it straight from the tap. For those of you who are slightly appalled let me tell you why this is good. The small amount of chlorine you're adding to your tank doubles as pesticide. So anything that may come in off new fish/plants gets obliterated.


Your first write up was sound,but this advise is just plain wrong.
After 25 years of fish keeping the one thing that I have learned if you want happy and healthy fish is WATER CHANGES.
It is the only thing that removes the fishes excretory products.Which are slowly killing and stunting your fish.No filter will remove them.
Removing 25% a week is a good idea..replacing with dechlorinated water.
As for your pesticide comment on chlorine..lol..I will leave that alone.

alessia55
01-06-13, 09:35 AM
These tips will come in handy with my new tank :D

EmilyS
01-06-13, 01:16 PM
When we had our guppy tank i used water out our rainwater butt, sieved it a few times to get rid of the floating debris and then warmed it to about the temp of the tank. I would find that about an inch of water would be lost through evaporation during a one to two week period and would just top up using the same process. I never did water changes, i washed the filter and only replaced it once a year and i used snails to keep the tank clean.

I would have constant breeding, lots of variety in terms of ages of the fish. When one died i Left it in the tank and let the snails/other fish eat it. I ran it this way for about five years, then i got into snakes and needed the space. I fed fish flake twice a week, just a generous pinch.

So i gave the tank to my father in law. He is totally anal about the tank being spotless, removed dead fish, switched 10% of water every week, changed the filter monthly etc, all the fish died within three months with NO breeding taking place at all.

This happened because your fish got used to the tank being horribly dirty. When they were given proper care, the clean water shocked them.

jarich
01-06-13, 01:44 PM
Both... Every time you mess with the tank you disturb the established ecosystem. Even doing water changes alters is slightly.

I wrote that quite a while ago and there are some more things I should've touched on. One being that dechlorination is a myth and a waste of money.
Honestly the small amount of chlorine that comes from your tap (you know the one that doesn't ever hurt you) evaporates within 24 hrs. I consider my "water change" refilling the tank after it evaporates a few inches. I do it straight from the tap. For those of you who are slightly appalled let me tell you why this is good. The small amount of chlorine you're adding to your tank doubles as pesticide. So anything that may come in off new fish/plants gets obliterated.

While its true that chlorine will evaporate, chloramines are pretty much there for good, and just as harmful to the fish. And while it may not kill them right away, it does stress them unnecessarily and could eventually lead to their death by lowering their immune system.

Anything new you add to your tank should get a salt water bath to remove any pests and parasites. The small bit of chlorine will not kill things like ich or other parasites.

Lankyrob
01-06-13, 03:13 PM
This happened because your fish got used to the tank being horribly dirty. When they were given proper care, the clean water shocked them.

Dirty in what way? I know very little about fish at all but the tank looked clean to me? :)

EmilyS
01-06-13, 03:31 PM
Dirty in the fact that the nitrates were probably sky high (or ammonia/nitrite, if the tank wasn't cycled). Sorry, I guess I didn't mean "dirty", I more meant "unhealthy." I consider anything above a nitrate reading of 40 ppm unhealthy (and an ammonia and nitrite reading of above 0).

Aaron_S
01-06-13, 03:54 PM
Your first write up was sound,but this advise is just plain wrong.
After 25 years of fish keeping the one thing that I have learned if you want happy and healthy fish is WATER CHANGES.
It is the only thing that removes the fishes excretory products.Which are slowly killing and stunting your fish.No filter will remove them.
Removing 25% a week is a good idea..replacing with dechlorinated water.
As for your pesticide comment on chlorine..lol..I will leave that alone.

I agree with most of this.

From my limited fish knowledge it's that water changes are key to everything. A good filter is a must but so is the water change. Since we're keeping essentially an ecosystem going we need to get rid of the things that the system can't get rid of on it's own. It's the fish poop/un eaten food. I siphon the gravel as I do my water change.

Lankyrob
01-06-13, 05:01 PM
Dirty in the fact that the nitrates were probably sky high (or ammonia/nitrite, if the tank wasn't cycled). Sorry, I guess I didn't mean "dirty", I more meant "unhealthy." I consider anything above a nitrate reading of 40 ppm unhealthy (and an ammonia and nitrite reading of above 0).

How ŵould this manifest itself?. Sorry for being a noob about it but i hope to get fish in the future (after lots more research :) ) and want to know what to look out for :)

StudentoReptile
01-06-13, 05:04 PM
In my experience as a pet shop grunt, aquarium maintenance technician, as well as having many of my own aquariums, I will say that EVERY aquarium is different. I had a nano reef tank that went well with a water change every 6 months.

That said, I feel that what determines how much regular maintenance is required is directly related on how the aquarium was set-up and the first 2-3 weeks after. If it was a noob who knows nothing and throw a ton of fish in a small tank, feeds them too much, etc...they're pretty much setting themselves up for a lot of maintenance down the road, as fixing all that tank's issues will be a constant uphill battle, aside from simply starting over from scratch.

Now if you're a more knowledgeable aquarist, who is patient, and let's the aquarium cycle properly before adding fish, adding the correct species/amount of fish, etc...you can eventually have a tank that is bulletproof that requires very little maintenance. And of course, a lot depends on the type of fish, etc.

One thing about tap water....chlorine and chloramines aren't the only thing to worry about. pH can be a factor as well, depending on the fish and/or plants you intend to keep. For example, the pH in my tap is naturally around 7.8-8.0. It was an uphill battle trying to keep it low for my FW planted tanks. Sometimes, it can simplify things to just keep species that prefer that pH range.

Corey209
01-06-13, 05:52 PM
Weird.. I never had problem with fish dying when I purchased them from an actual place that focuses on fish. I was little so I'd feed them multiple times throughout the day without any dying. We also had fresh water crab at the bottom and some of the sucker fish to clean up which may have helped.

EmilyS
01-06-13, 06:02 PM
How ŵould this manifest itself?. Sorry for being a noob about it but i hope to get fish in the future (after lots more research :) ) and want to know what to look out for :)

Are you talking about nitrates? Here's the nitrogen cycle in a nutshell:

Fish produce waste that gives off ammonia; fish can only tolerate a very small amount of this (they'll start showing symptoms of ammonia poisoning even at a concentration of .25 ppm; in an established aquarium, there should be 0 ppm). To help get rid of ammonia, there is a naturally occurring bacteria that turns ammonia into nitrites. Well, nitrites are similar to ammonia in the fact that they are bad for fish in even small numbers. So, there's a bacteria to turn nitrites into nitrates, which fish can handle much more of (I wouldn't allow a tank's concentration of nitrates get above 40 ppm, unless that is the amount found in your tap water). Only water changes can get rid of nitrates. The amound of fish you have in an aquarium, and their bioloads, determines how often a water change in necessary. In a fully stocked aquarium, that's generally around 25% per week.

In my experience as a pet shop grunt, aquarium maintenance technician, as well as having many of my own aquariums, I will say that EVERY aquarium is different. I had a nano reef tank that went well with a water change every 6 months.

That said, I feel that what determines how much regular maintenance is required is directly related on how the aquarium was set-up and the first 2-3 weeks after. If it was a noob who knows nothing and throw a ton of fish in a small tank, feeds them too much, etc...they're pretty much setting themselves up for a lot of maintenance down the road, as fixing all that tank's issues will be a constant uphill battle, aside from simply starting over from scratch.

Now if you're a more knowledgeable aquarist, who is patient, and let's the aquarium cycle properly before adding fish, adding the correct species/amount of fish, etc...you can eventually have a tank that is bulletproof that requires very little maintenance. And of course, a lot depends on the type of fish, etc.

One thing about tap water....chlorine and chloramines aren't the only thing to worry about. pH can be a factor as well, depending on the fish and/or plants you intend to keep. For example, the pH in my tap is naturally around 7.8-8.0. It was an uphill battle trying to keep it low for my FW planted tanks. Sometimes, it can simplify things to just keep species that prefer that pH range.


I've found that many fish, even the less hardier ones like neon tetras and german blue rams, can adapt to a large pH range. If the change is drastic, however, a longer acclimation process will be required. I keep fish that prefer many different pH ranges acclimated to the pH of my tap water, and they do fine.

Lankyrob
01-06-13, 06:25 PM
Are you talking about nitrates? Here's the nitrogen cycle in a nutshell:

Fish produce waste that gives off ammonia; fish can only tolerate a very small amount of this (they'll start showing symptoms of ammonia poisoning even at a concentration of .25 ppm; in an established aquarium, there should be 0 ppm). To help get rid of ammonia, there is a naturally occurring bacteria that turns ammonia into nitrites. Well, nitrites are similar to ammonia in the fact that they are bad for fish in even small numbers. So, there's a bacteria to turn nitrites into nitrates, which fish can handle much more of (I wouldn't allow a tank's concentration of nitrates get above 40 ppm, unless that is the amount found in your tap water). Only water changes can get rid of nitrates. The amound of fish you have in an aquarium, and their bioloads, determines how often a water change in necessary. In a fully stocked aquarium, that's generally around 25% per week.




I've found that many fish, even the less hardier ones like neon tetras and german blue rams, can adapt to a large pH range. If the change is drastic, however, a longer acclimation process will be required. I keep fish that prefer many different pH ranges acclimated to the pH of my tap water, and they do fine.

So would having the tank planted with live plants help or hinder the fish?

I had sand and gravel substrate on top of an earth layer, i had plants planted into the soil covering three quarters of the tank. Snails cleaned the glass and pebbles and the guppies ate the "moss" that grew on the ornaments. The tank was approx two foot square, and there was an eight hour "daylight" bulb each day. I also had a couple of small catfish type things that fed off the bottom :)

EmilyS
01-06-13, 07:37 PM
Plants are good, they help remove some (but not all) nitrates and ammonium. They also look much better than fake :D

Wildside
01-06-13, 07:41 PM
Alright so lol at me being called a noob first of all... Somebody didn't compare stats.

Anyway I should clarify what I meant. Pesticide may not have been the right term but in my experience adding chlorinated water will take care of those pesky little worms keepers often find clinging to the glass as well as few other things. Also that's just in my experience. As a matter of fact every post I've ever made on this forum is based on MY experience. I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

Anyway, StudenttoReptile makes very good points as always. Maybe I don't have problems with chlorine/chemicals because of my excessive filtration habit. I've got 4 Aquaclear 110's on my 180. Or maybe my tap water isn't as chemically processed as others. This is still a pretty rural area. The point(s) I'm trying to make is fish keeping isn't as difficult as the internet sometimes makes it out to be.

Aaron_S
01-06-13, 08:01 PM
Alright so lol at me being called a noob first of all... Somebody didn't compare stats.

Anyway I should clarify what I meant. Pesticide may not have been the right term but in my experience adding chlorinated water will take care of those pesky little worms keepers often find clinging to the glass as well as few other things. Also that's just in my experience. As a matter of fact every post I've ever made on this forum is based on MY experience. I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

Anyway, StudenttoReptile makes very good points as always. Maybe I don't have problems with chlorine/chemicals because of my excessive filtration habit. I've got 4 Aquaclear 110's on my 180. Or maybe my tap water isn't as chemically processed as others. This is still a pretty rural area. The point(s) I'm trying to make is fish keeping isn't as difficult as the internet sometimes makes it out to be.


I went online to forums for fish help. It was rough. Worse than the reptile crowd. I was wrong in some aspects but overall, it's literally a job to keep the smallest of tanks to some people. Or so they make it out to be.

Right now though, we've gotten my daughter's tank down to just guppies. She enjoys them, and enjoys the new babies that pop up from time to time. It's simple enough for me to maintain when she's not around and for when I'm just too busy with work/life.

Personally, I'd like a tiger barb aquarium or to try my hand at breeding rams.

Wildside
01-06-13, 08:05 PM
I went online to forums for fish help. It was rough. Worse than the reptile crowd. I was wrong in some aspects but overall, it's literally a job to keep the smallest of tanks to some people. Or so they make it out to be.

Right now though, we've gotten my daughter's tank down to just guppies. She enjoys them, and enjoys the new babies that pop up from time to time. It's simple enough for me to maintain when she's not around and for when I'm just too busy with work/life.

Personally, I'd like a tiger barb aquarium or to try my hand at breeding rams.


LOL Fish people are usually extreme pragmatist :laugh:

EmilyS
01-06-13, 08:06 PM
I went online to forums for fish help. It was rough. Worse than the reptile crowd. I was wrong in some aspects but overall, it's literally a job to keep the smallest of tanks to some people. Or so they make it out to be.

You should try fishlore ;)

Aaron_S
01-06-13, 08:18 PM
You should try fishlore ;)

No thanks!

I'll just find you when I need a bit more information.

Actually, I'd really like a solid site or something where I can gather basic care information for FW fish. I hate using google as it can be true or false and I'd have no idea!

EmilyS
01-06-13, 08:49 PM
No thanks!

I'll just find you when I need a bit more information.

Actually, I'd really like a solid site or something where I can gather basic care information for FW fish. I hate using google as it can be true or false and I'd have no idea!

I'd love to answer any questions!

I really love that forum. There are so many friendly people who would never make fun of somebody for having a silly question, and they would be more than happy to answer it! You often get a reply within 10 minutes :)

Aaron_S
01-06-13, 08:56 PM
I'd love to answer any questions!

I really love that forum. There are so many friendly people who would never make fun of somebody for having a silly question, and they would be more than happy to answer it! You often get a reply within 10 minutes :)

Ohhh it's a GOOD forum. My bad lol.

Shoot me the link via pm. I don't mind joining and soaking up information for awhile.

Deva
01-13-13, 02:39 PM
I used to do water changes every month, but I have noticed I can go much longer than that between changes with no ill effects. I believe the key is feeding only once a day and making sure not so much food either, one or two small pinches.

I agree that less food is better. And don't change out all the filters at once if you have more than one. Also don't pull out too many plants at once.

Loucifer
01-13-13, 03:03 PM
Went through the supermarket check-out with 55 1gal. jugs once! XD