New forum member needing HELP!

[LaDeeLuck]

Hey all! I am new to the ssnakess.com forum. I Have 3 snakes, one of them being a 6ish foot JCP. I am not sure of the sex as I only got (him) spring 2012 and the sex was unknown at that time. I will refer to this snake as a 'He'. He has always been a great eater and had healthy shed cycle, decent temperament but hisses a lot. I keep a snake journal for all my snakes to monitor their sheds, feedings, poops and health concerns... He is currently in a 70 gallon tank with a large water tub and a rock cave, I use aspen pine shavings because that was what I was advised to use by someone and I haven't had any problems. I always take my snakes out and use a feeding tank that has nothing in it, I feed thawed mice/rats. I currently have a humidifier between his tank and my ball pythons tank to help keep the humidity up since it is so dry in the winter. The tank has digital thermometers on each end and reads between 70-80*F.

So now you know a little background on this snake... here lies my problem. the last feeding date was set to be Dec 16, 2012. He did not eat, this was a first. I know during shed cycles and sometimes just because, a snake can refuse a meal, so I didn't think much of it. About a week ago I noticed near the vent that he was swollen. He had been hiding out in the cave a lot more than usual and I assumed it was due to the sudden and drastic weather drop (we got to -38*C which is almost equal in F) I made sure the tank was protected by placing a box stuffed full of paper and plastic in between the window and tank, it helped a lot. So a week later and after searching various google pages and forums, I am not sure what to think , if maybe my JCP is a female laying slugs, an infection, sausage butt... I called the local Vet who is supposed to be ok with snake care but I haven't heard back. So I figured I could ask for some help here.. I will attach a few pics of him and the swelling as well as the thing i found in the cave last night. (i am not sure if it is just a poop or something else) As well as a pic of him right before this all went down, on the 17th of Dec.

Please Help, I am going to try to soak him again tonight but that was quite the battle last night, ending in a hisssss and him taking off across the tank... I might need something with a lid. Thanks!

[alessia55]

Someone will be on here soon to help you with your carpet python.

Welcome to the forum! Please read our sSNAKESs forum rules. (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/new-forum/53647-read-first-forum-rules.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/alessia55/welcomematssnakess.jpg

[dinosaurdammit]

that thing is odd looking to say the least. Do you know if its a solid mass? Or maybe its less dense than it looks? If you poke it with something does it mush or kinda do nothing as if you were poking foam?

[Terranaut]

Your temps are low. I had just typed a big thing but am at work and lost it somehow. Start with upping your temps to 90+ on the hot side and 80 ish on the low. I wilk post more when I get home

[LaDeeLuck]

I had the top covered before, I threw the cover back on to increase temps. Also, I dissected the large poop and it is crumbly, like super dry. It was sitting on top of the undertank heat mat though so that prob helped dry it out. Also, there are lots of little poops randomly around the tank, they have a greenish tinge so if it is anything like with humans, green means infection :( Am I right?

[Terranaut]

Not for sure. Its strange but I have seen green crap before with no infection. Get those temps up. Do you use a thermostat on your heat source? If not and the temps are that low you need more heat. Not just a lid. Get an slightly overkill heater and a thermostat to run it. I bet thats an undigested rat in that lump. Not enough heat = poor digestion and can kill your snake. Fix the heat today. No joke!!

[LaDeeLuck]

it brings the temp up about 7* in the tank to around 85/88 when i cover the top. I have a feeling the cold snap we had here could have something to do with it. I want to try to soak him for a while in warm water and then put back in and up the temp as much as I can get it. Oiye this is stressing me out.

[KORBIN5895]

If you are having green tinted urates it very well may be kidney failure. I had a bci die of what I am almost positive was kidney failure. I was actually breeding her and I thought she was ovulating. She died within a week.

[Terranaut]

If you are having green tinted urates it very well may be kidney failure. I had a bci die of what I am almost positive was kidney failure. I was actually breeding her and I thought she was ovulating. She died within a week.

Yeah that was horrible. I sure hope this is not the case.

[LaDeeLuck]

This was green in with the white poop. I soaked him for a while tonight and gently massaged the bulging part and the swelling went down, he also became a lot more active. I will still contact the vet tomorrow to see what I can do and if he can be seen. Hoping to wake up to a big smelly poop in the morning... I know it's the oddest things that make us happy when in times like this. Getting the temps up in the tank right now to hopefully help out.

I sure hope this isn't something fatal. I appreciate the help you all are giving me, I try my best to keep things ideal but even some times they get a little off whack. Maybe someone would be able to help me know what type of snakes I have... I didn't get any specifics on any of my snakes when I got them (they were all sort of rescues), my ball python, red tail boa and this guy are all unknown gender and other than the obvious I don't know much about them. The boa was thought to be a female though.

[KORBIN5895]

That "white poop" is actually called urates and they pass those when they pee so it could very well be a kidney problem.

[Lankyrob]

Your temps are too low, i ieep my jungle at 86f on hot side and 75 minimum on cool side. Do you have a thermostat to keep the temps stable?

Also he needs to have hides on BOTH ends of the tank so he doesnt have to choose between safety and temperature.

The hissing and feisty attitude is just him being a JCP :)

[LaDeeLuck]

The tank is up to 84 and 77 now, I am learning I should have two hides but in a 75 gallon tank I have a large water tub on the far right side because he usually likes to soak, and then I have a rock cave on the left side and there isnt a lot of room in between. I had to make a styrofoam rock looking thing to keep the tub from tipping over when he comes in and out, he actually really likes it and I've seen him lounging on it quite a bit. I have been pondering building a new large hide so I can put a second one in there but although the current cave is on top of the heat mat it is the cooler end of the tank. I will see if i can put a pic up of what the tank looks like.

22013

22014

[Will0W783]

I'm not sure, but the greenish-stuff at the top of the urate picture looks like half-digested aspen bedding to me. I've had my carpets get a few pieces in their mouths and then they pass it out and it looks greenish because of the digestive acids it's been exposed to.
The swelling is more concerning, however. If the swelling was lower I'd think it was fecal stones (impaction/constipation), but that swelling looks a bit too far up for that. Due to the large amount of aspen in the urate picture, I'd be a bit concerned that he may have had his intestines punctured by a bit of aspen and gotten peritonitis. The only way to tell, really, is with an x-ray and maybe ultrasound. I would be hounding your vet until you get a call-back or answer.

Good luck! Hopefully it's nothing major and can be fixed.

[LaDeeLuck]

I cut that poop up to see if it was indeed a poop, the aspen was only stuck to it not actually in it, I don't feed my snakes in their homes, have a separate feeding tank that has no substrate at all, I just put them back in their homes shortly after I feed so I know shavings aren't being ingested while feeding, but possibly something could have if he yawned or something I suppose. I am going to soak him again and get ahold of the vet.

[LaDeeLuck]

So I just finished soaking him again, when I brought him out I noticed he was a little more swollen from the initial swelling to the vent, (looked like he wanted to take a poop), and when I put him back in the tank he had a bunch of liquid (either water that had gone in or urate) and some more little white poop. I took a pic of the vent before I put him back. I will attach it. The vet told me I would could get a $200 xray to see if its an egg but the closest herp vets are 5 hours away and would likely be an $800 visit once we made it there. I can't afford that, the vet told me to try feeding again and it may help push things out. I will try that tonight.

[shaunyboy]

If you are having green tinted urates it very well may be kidney failure. I had a bci die of what I am almost positive was kidney failure. I was actually breeding her and I thought she was ovulating. She died within a week.

my Carpets have passed green tinged eurates,from time to time Kevin...

boa's may be different,ive even heard you can kill young boa's with over feeding,you could'nt kill a carpet that way,so i'm thinking they are way different mate

to the op
you need the hot end temperatures between 88F to 90F,cool end high 70's F to low 80's F,this allows the food to digest and the snake to thermoregulate

i'm am unsure if it could be undigested prey,because i would have thought the snake would have regurgatated it,if the temps went too low

sorry but it's hard to tell exactly whats up from a picture

when you feel the large lump,does it feel all one mass ?

or does it feel like their could be eggs in there ?

a good reptile vet will be able to tell you more,as they can do an ultra sound on the lump,the same way they would a pregnant woman

please let us know how it goes

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

So I just finished soaking him again, when I brought him out I noticed he was a little more swollen from the initial swelling to the vent, (looked like he wanted to take a poop), and when I put him back in the tank he had a bunch of liquid (either water that had gone in or urate) and some more little white poop. I took a pic of the vent before I put him back. I will attach it. The vet told me I would could get a $200 xray to see if its an egg but the closest herp vets are 5 hours away and would likely be an $800 visit once we made it there. I can't afford that, the vet told me to try feeding again and it may help push things out. I will try that tonight.

re swollen vent
it could be a partial rectal prolapse

or constipation ?

re vet
a simple ultra sound would tell if there were follicles,eggs,poo,eurates,etc in a snake,imo no need for an x ray

i would find a different vet mate

cheers shaun

[LaDeeLuck]

It wasnt like this before I soaked him, hence why i was thinking maybe it was just a hard poop or something needing to come out. There is not a lot of options for vets in my town when it comes to the exotic end of it, mostly cat and dog kind of vets here it seems :/ I personally dont think it is a mouse because the last time he ate was Nov 25, I would think that it would have been long gone by then, he had pooped twice since then also.. then refused to eat the last feeding. It doesnt feel to me like there is eggs in there, more like it is all one mass, but it is only harder at the furthest part (closest to the vent). The urate/poop wasnt green when he dropped it earlier, I am hoping with a few more warm baths that things will come out.

[shaunyboy]

It wasnt like this before I soaked him, hence why i was thinking maybe it was just a hard poop or something needing to come out. There is not a lot of options for vets in my town when it comes to the exotic end of it, mostly cat and dog kind of vets here it seems :/ I personally dont think it is a mouse because the last time he ate was Nov 25, I would think that it would have been long gone by then, he had pooped twice since then also.. then refused to eat the last feeding. It doesnt feel to me like there is eggs in there, more like it is all one mass, but it is only harder at the furthest part (closest to the vent). The urate/poop wasnt green when he dropped it earlier, I am hoping with a few more warm baths that things will come out.

i hope its just constipation as well mate

you can use magnesium oxide (mik of magnesia) or mineral oil,to loosen a constipated snake

imo the easiest way is to dose a prey item with it,by injecting the milk of magnesia or mineral oil,stright into the prey..

that said,your carpets not feeding,so the only way would be to tube it into the snake...

re tubing
you get an infant baby feeding tube form the vet,cut it to the appropriate size,fill the syringe with a dose of oil or magnesia,attatch the tube to the syringe,press the plunger until the oil is all the way to the end of the tube...

then you need to slide the tube a few inches down the snakes throat,just far enough as the meds go down into the stomach and not back out the mouth

1ml per kg of body weight is the correct dose

it gets reffered to as rat/mouse lax

cheers shaun

[Terranaut]

Looks like a hard chunk of urate to me. My female had a similar thing last spring. I actually got video of her passing it on here. It was gross but right after she had a huge crap and was all back to normal. Hopefully that passes today.good luck!!

[KORBIN5895]

This is what I mean by green urates. Leah passed these for days.

I am talking neon green.

http://s18.postimage.org/jf9oakm11/IMG_20120924_215618.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/jf9oakm11/)

http://s10.postimage.org/5y1ljtc6t/IMG_20120924_215628.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/5y1ljtc6t/)

[LaDeeLuck]

Looks like a hard chunk of urate to me. My female had a similar thing last spring. I actually got video of her passing it on here. It was gross but right after she had a huge crap and was all back to normal. Hopefully that passes today.good luck!!


How long was she swollen before she passed it and did you do anything to help??

[LaDeeLuck]

So just finished another soak, and once again his area from the swelling to the vent got a little fuller. I actually tried to massage the poop out and i had a lot of stinky liquid and some white (urate?) come out. Boy does it ever stink! The ball feeling thing is still in the same spot and i can't get it to move any... that is the only hard/round feeling thing at the start and finish of the swelling, the center feels almost softer. Tried to feed and he refused once again. Hoping things break up and come out asap.

[Will0W783]

LaDeeLuck, honestly you need that x-ray. If it's a soft mass, it needs to be examined to make sure it's not cancer. I know that you are tight on funds and vets are not close to you, but you can't let the snake suffer. I had a situation where I had a big female emerald tree boa stop eating and swell up, looking almost like an ovulation. I thought it might be, but it didn't go down after a few days, and grew instead. I made a vet appointment and we tried warm soaks, olive oil and laxatives, to no avail. It was determined that she needed surgery to remove the mass, and it turned out to be cancer that had eaten her stomach and small intestine. She didn't wake up from the surgery. Had I not had it checked, she could have lingered painfully for months more...which would have been an awful death.

I am not saying that your snake has cancer, just that you really need to rule it out. If it is constipation, it might need to be surgically removed as well, or it will bind up the digestive tract and the snake will eventually die.

[Terranaut]

How long was she swollen before she passed it and did you do anything to help??

Once again I typed a big reply at work on my phone and it was lost in cyber space.
I just forced her to do some excersise outside. Had her climb stuff and crawl around in the grass. After 20 min or so the tail went up. Ut took a few minutes and came out with a pop and a rush of fluid but it came out without my intervention. I posted the video on here but my son removed it. It was gross to say the least.

[shaunyboy]

This is what I mean by green urates. Leah passed these for days.

i remember you posting that Kevin...

i was talking of a white eurate,that had a green tinge to it,nothing like the green in your pic's mate,it was more the colour of the green chalk,kids use on a black board,a pale green

cheers shaun

[LaDeeLuck]

I've got him booked in today to a local vet, we can have an examination and xray and see whats going on. I'm not sure if this vet will perform surgery on a snake but I am hoping with everything in me we can fix it without.

[LaDeeLuck]

:'( News from the vet was not good, he thinks its a tumor of sorts and as big as it is that things don't look too promising. As stated before the only place that may consider surgery is a 5 hour drive from where I am and the vet here figures that even then things likely wouldn't turn out well. I'm broken hearted right now

[Lankyrob]

So sorry for your news :(

[Tracy33]

You poor thing , after all this stress. So Sorry. Tracy.

[LaDeeLuck]

Thank you guys. He died shortly after coming home from the vet. I'm thinking the exam and the pushing and prodding at the lump may have injured something internally, or the stress maybe just got to him. Tomorrow I will cut him open to see what I can if it is a tumor or something else. I am pretty upset but I know death is a fact of life. I will possibly see about any other snakes needing to be rescued and fill the tank again rather than have an empty 75 gallon tank in my living room. Thanks again for all your input. I am thankful for two other healthy snakes and hope they never suffer with something such as this.

[shaunyboy]

i'm sorry to hear he died

all the best,shaun

[Donnie]

Sorry to hear that :(

[LaDeeLuck]

Thanks guys, after dissection of the area it proved there was a prolapsed intestine and a large tumor, and at the distal end of the tumor was a lot of blood so I think that when the vet was palpating it burst a blood vessel and likely was what actually killed him. I understand he likely would have died eventually but I am certain that was the cause of death so soon, but all the better than him suffering. He was 170" and 1 Lb 12 Oz.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Thanks guys, after dissection of the area it proved there was a prolapsed intestine and a large tumor, and at the distal end of the tumor was a lot of blood so I think that when the vet was palpating it burst a blood vessel and likely was what actually killed him. I understand he likely would have died eventually but I am certain that was the cause of death so soon, but all the better than him suffering. He was 170" and 1 Lb 12 Oz.Wow, I'm sorry. Do you know what would have caused the prolapsed intestine and tumor?

~Maggot

[LaDeeLuck]

No I don't, and frankly the smell was getting a bit too strong (doing the dissection on an open box on my kitchen floor) that I didn't continue to explore. I am pretty good with anatomy and distinguishing problems but i am not a vet either and can only handle so much stink in my house before i was ready to finish up. The only thing i could think of is maybe a sliver from the aspen, but I don't feed in their homes, the feeding tank is completely empty other than the snake and the thawed prey.

[KORBIN5895]

I am sorry for your loss.

Your measurements put that snake around 14' and 1.75 pounds. I think you are off a bit.

[LaDeeLuck]

I am sorry for your loss.

Your measurements put that snake around 14' and 1.75 pounds. I think you are off a bit.


Haha yeahhh I realized what I wrote about an hour ago and came on to fix it, i don't know where i got 170 from, I am blaming being in distress and tired :P Actually he was 67" and after opening him up i think he was a she. Also found some other things that seemed a bit off, a black spot about an inch in diameter that was half way up the body and some weird deposits in the tissues around some of the organs. Maybe this was just a long time coming and an unhealthy snake from the start.

[Terranaut]

Ouch. Very sorry for your loss :(

[Will0W783]

Oh no, I'm so sorry you lost him after all this! I was rooting for you even though I figured it was a long shot.

Tumors in snakes are really difficult to treat, as they don't tend to show us signs that they are sick until it's almost too late. You did the best that you could, and loved your snake and gave him a good life.