Florida Snake Culling "Challenge"

[jarich]

Apparently Florida is organizing a snake culling which open to the public. While I appreciate the fact that invasive species can be a problem, Im pretty sure this is not the way to go about solving it. Handing over the problem to people that get off on killing snakes seems like you are going to end up with a lot of dead native snakes too.

What do you think?

Welcome to Python Challengeâ„¢ 2013! (http://pythonchallenge.org/)

If you want to do something about it, the bottom of this article shows how to contact the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission, who is in charge of organizing the event. The event begins on January 10th.

Florida Encourages People to Kill Snakes In a Sick Contest | Psychology Today (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions/201212/florida-encourages-people-kill-snakes-in-sick-contest)

[SpOoKy]

I am not 100% sure on how I feel about this...

[Revenant]

I can't get too riled about that. People are already allowed to go in and hunt the snakes, at least for this event they are trying to make some effort to force people to go through a bit of basic education on identifying native vs. non-native species and how to 'humanely euthanize' the snakes.

I don't think any of us are going to think it is wonderful that an animal we consider to be a pet is being slaughtered, but they clearly aren't welcome there, and if this helps control the hysteria it is not an entirely negative thing. I don't think it is an outrage on the level of, say, rattlesnake round-ups.

[KORBIN5895]

Don't knock it! They are giving, not one but two free classes!

[totheend]

I agree Jarich, while I understand the whole invasive species thing....I think that many other species will be killed to. Most people think all snakes look the same. Buy hey, if they are offering 2 classes.....

[rmfsnakes32]

I think this event is going to ruin snake keeping in a whole some ****** is going to piss off a hungry burm and get eaten!!!!!

[KORBIN5895]

I think this event is going to ruin snake keeping in a whole some ****** is going to piss off a hungry burm and get eaten!!!!!

Did you seriously just say that?

[totheend]

I think it was sarcasm....I hope it was sarcasm??

[Revenant]

I think this event is going to ruin snake keeping in a whole some ****** is going to piss off a hungry burm and get eaten!!!!!

I don't think rabbits are allowed to enter, so no worries there.

[Jay]

I think this event is going to ruin snake keeping in a whole some ****** is going to piss off a hungry burm and get eaten!!!!!

Really.....

[shaunyboy]

i totally understand why this needs to be done.....

they should really be TEACHING people how to HUMAINLY EUTHINISE these snakes though imo

imo there will be too many idiots,who think cutting a snakes head of is a good way to euthinise,which it most definitly is not...!!


cheers shaun

[Mark Taylor]

I think its completely unnecessary to go round killing anything.

So they are big and there are lots of them, but I bet there are more Hummers on the road that kill more people than snakes do lets kill hummers?

lets just say I am against the idea.

[Revenant]

I think its completely unnecessary to go round killing anything.

So they are big and there are lots of them, but I bet there are more Hummers on the road that kill more people than snakes do lets kill hummers?

lets just say I am against the idea.



It's not about protecting people, though.

[Gungirl]

I get it and if done right I agree but this doesn't seem the right way to me. I hunt deer for population control and food, I can't say doing if for snakes is wrong but it has to be done in the right way. I don't want people thinking snakes are horrible creatures invading.

[GDZILLA95]

I think its completely unnecessary to go round killing anything.

So they are big and there are lots of them, but I bet there are more Hummers on the road that kill more people than snakes do lets kill hummers?

lets just say I am against the idea.

They are two totally different things. As said before, this isn't about protecting people. The Burms are an invasive species that are taking away prey items for the native species.

I don't like the fact that the Burms are being killed, but it is a problem in Florida and something needs to be done. I do agree with Kat and Shaun that it needs to be done right.

[dinosaurdammit]

i totally understand why this needs to be done.....

they should really be TEACHING people how to HUMAINLY EUTHINISE these snakes though imo

imo there will be too many idiots,who think cutting a snakes head of is a good way to euthinise,which it most definitly is not...!!


cheers shaun

would pithing be humane? Basically you take a rod and shove it in the brain and twist it. It works in livestock with captive bolt guns.

[shaunyboy]

I think its completely unnecessary to go round killing anything.

So they are big and there are lots of them, but I bet there are more Hummers on the road that kill more people than snakes do lets kill hummers?

lets just say I am against the idea.

these invasive large snakes can add to,or cause the wiping out whole eco systems,that have been around for thousands of years...

so you think it's better to let the burms live,and let hundreds/thousands of other creatures die...

creatures that NATURALLY occur and have kept the everglades as a place of beauty

man caused burms to be introduced to the everglades,so imo man has a DUTY to fix it,before its too late

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

would pithing be humane? Basically you take a rod and shove it in the brain and twist it. It works in livestock with captive bolt guns.

imo the fastest most pain free way to euthinise a snake is full cranial destruction

one fast hard hit to the head with a lump hammer

the head has been crushed/destroyed,before the nerves have time to register pain,the electrical impulses don't have time to reach the brain

imo this is the most humane way of euthinising a snake

also the least stressfull

re taking to a vet
stress of car journey,stress of sitting in the waiting room,stress of the vet trying to get a vein,or using gass

re freezing
this causes the water in the blood to freeze,crystalise and expand,bursting blood vessels,a painfull way to go

re gassing

slow death by suffocation,not very nice imo

re full cranial destruction
over in under a second,no stress and the quickest death possible

cheers shaun

p.s.i know it sounds barbaric...but we owe anythimg in our care the best quality of life possible,but we also owe it the fastest most pain free death,should it need euthinised

[Corey209]

imo the fastest most pain free way to euthinise a snake is full cranial destruction

one fast hard hit to the head with a lump hammer

the head has been crushed/destroyed,before the nerves have time to register pain,the electrical impulses don't have time to reach the brain

imo this is the most humane way of euthinising a snake

also the least stressfull

re taking to a vet
stress of car journey,stress of sitting in the waiting room,stress of the vet trying to get a vein,or using gass

re freezing
this causes the water in the blood to freeze,crystalise and expand,bursting blood vessels,a painfull way to go

re gassing

slow death by suffocation,not very nice imo

re full cranial destruction
over in under a second,no stress and the quickest death possible

cheers shaun

p.s.i know it sounds barbaric...but we owe anythimg in our care the best quality of life possible,but we also owe it the fastest most pain free death,should it need euthinised

I wonder if a vet would let you bring something home to euthanize the snake in a more humane way.

[dinosaurdammit]

imo the fastest most pain free way to euthinise a snake is full cranial destruction

one fast hard hit to the head with a lump hammer

the head has been crushed/destroyed,before the nerves have time to register pain,the electrical impulses don't have time to reach the brain

imo this is the most humane way of euthinising a snake

also the least stressfull

re taking to a vet
stress of car journey,stress of sitting in the waiting room,stress of the vet trying to get a vein,or using gass

re freezing
this causes the water in the blood to freeze,crystalise and expand,bursting blood vessels,a painfull way to go

re gassing

slow death by suffocation,not very nice imo

re full cranial destruction
over in under a second,no stress and the quickest death possible

cheers shaun

p.s.i know it sounds barbaric...but we owe anythimg in our care the best quality of life possible,but we also owe it the fastest most pain free death,should it need euthinised


Thursday I take my female boa back to the vet and if he cant figure out then once labs are back what is wrong with her I think I may put her down, her life isnt the same and I know she isnt "happy". I just cant stand the thought of busting her head in. Would sleeping gas to knock her out and then the shot work?

[Snakeman8]

their wiping out species, i get that, but why? their stretched straight into cali and nortern mexico, good luck wiping them out.

[iBaman]

I'd rather they do this and let me keep my giant snake...

[Kettennatter]

I think it is too late. While it may be possible to wipe out populations in more developed areas, it will be hard to control them in the Everglades. The Everglades themselves represent a habitat that the snakes will be reluctant to leave, so protecting the Everglades as a habitat as a whole sets a limit as to what you can do to reduce the number of burms.

I've seen this effort for other types of invasive species. Not that I mind hunting hogs, for example. But I'm under no illusion that the hogs are going to be around as long as the Florida fruit farms attract them.

[KORBIN5895]

Catch and release wild burms into areas with the wild hogs.

Side not are they wild hogs or javalinas in Florida?

[dinosaurdammit]

Catch and release wild burms into areas with the wild hogs.

Side not are they wild hogs or javalinas in Florida?

A wild hog can kill a horse and are known to attack deer, while I have mad respect for the giants I dont think they would have much in the way of killing the russian mixes. They travel in herds called sounders and are protective of their group members. They also have an amazing nose and their tusk can and will rend metal. They are HUGE animals and while a berm or retic might pick off a few younguns it wont do a hill o beans compared to the fact they breed like mad and have so very few natural predators. I fear any berm or retic would get chewed alive by one of those foul things. Your best bet on hogs is just shoot em when you see em.

About the only way to target animals specifically is genetic/biological warfare. We know that from recent findings from the FaW berms and retics are HUGE egg loaders when found in flordia. About the best thing you can do is somehow infect the mothers with a genetic or viral sickness that spreads only to boids. Thus attacking them as babies and infecting any other boid they come into contact with.

[KORBIN5895]

Hmmmm. When I was in Florida I never saw hogs in large groups usually less than ten. I am also sure a giant could take one from ambush pretty easily.

As for the genetic or biological warfare idea I can only see bad things happening with that.

[infernalis]

About the only way to target animals specifically is genetic/biological warfare. We know that from recent findings from the FaW berms and retics are HUGE egg loaders when found in flordia. About the best thing you can do is somehow infect the mothers with a genetic or viral sickness that spreads only to boids. Thus attacking them as babies and infecting any other boid they come into contact with.

This sounds doomed to failure. We always learn about the "side effects" when it's too late to reverse anything.

[dinosaurdammit]

This sounds doomed to failure. We always learn about the "side effects" when it's too late to reverse anything.

Its the only thing i can think of that takes out a large section, removing one or two at a time doesnt do much considering how much they breed unless you have a massive cull where people shoulder up and basically walk a line and kill every target species in its path. Either way I dont think much can be done now.

[Sophia'sSophia]

This makes me want to go out and catch any juvies I can find...
Save 'em from the slaughter. Though there's likely few to none in my part of Fl.

But at the same time, I've been pondering how to help with the Burm removal/extermination for a while now.
So I have no strong protest. I'm mostly worried about all the naive 'hunters' mistaking every other snake as being dangerous enough to kill.

[shaunyboy]

I wonder if a vet would let you bring something home to euthanize the snake in a more humane way.

trying to find a vein then inject the snake,would be a lot more stressfull and take a lot longer than...

1 fast hard hit with a lump hammer...

this is the most " humane " way to do it,as its over before the pain registers

a death thats over in a milli second,is better than all the other methods,which take a few minutes,or even longer to do

imo i know smashing a head in sounds barbaric,but it is the fastest,most humane way way to do things

cheers shaun

[StudentoReptile]

I know a lot may disagree, but I'm actually in favor of this. As much as I like snakes, the burms in southern Florida are invasive. If we were talking about coyotes, deer, or hogs, or perhaps even feral cats, most of us probably wouldn't give a second thought to it. In this situation, we're not talking about killing people's pet snakes; we're talking about controlling/exterminating a population of an invasive species. If they had come up with this 4 yrs ago, it may not have resulted in the federal rule change of last year.

My only concern is that it may not be done right; as others mentioned, the most humane way of euthanizing a reptile in the field is full cranial destruction. It's too much hassle to wrangle a live, feral python out of the swamp and take it somewhere for a lethal injection. Not a efficient use of resources. And the substances they use for that is fairly regulated. You have to take a course and get certified to euthanize animals. Every Tom and Harry who gets the hunting license is not going to be certified to use those substances. A bullet or large mallet is a lot cheaper, and just as effective.

[shaunyboy]

Thursday I take my female boa back to the vet and if he cant figure out then once labs are back what is wrong with her I think I may put her down, her life isnt the same and I know she isnt "happy". I just cant stand the thought of busting her head in. Would sleeping gas to knock her out and then the shot work?

do it the way you can deal with best pal...

its never easy euthinising anything,but like you say if the creatures quality of life is unacceptabley poor,then it has to be done

if it needs done,i get a friend to do mine,if his needs done then i do his...

i find it hard emotionally to ethinise my own snakes,so a friend does it for me

i return the favour should any of his snakes require euthinisation

the full cranial destruction method,is not nice regards the human emotional side,but it is the fastest way for the snake

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

My only concern is that it may not be done right; as others mentioned, the most humane way of euthanizing a reptile in the field is full cranial destruction. It's too much hassle to wrangle a live, feral python out of the swamp and take it somewhere for a lethal injection. .

imo full cranial destruction is the most humane way to ethinise peroid mate,not just in the field...

you mention lethal injection,i have read many horror storys of reptiles taking a long time to die after injection,due to the substance being used is originally designed for warm blooded mammals...

it works at a much slower rate in reptiles mate,imo causing uneccessary stress and discomfort

the only injection ive read about working fast,is a shot straight into the snakes heart

cheers shaun

[StudentoReptile]

...and whose gonna train all these yahoos how to figure out where the heart is on a wild, irritable python and restrain it long enough to inject the needle?

LOL...just have a cinderblock and a sledgehammer ready. Like you said, Shaun, it's barbaric and messy, but it is also quick and painless.

[shaunyboy]

...and whose gonna train all these yahoos how to figure out where the heart is on a wild, irritable python and restrain it long enough to inject the needle?

LOL...just have a cinderblock and a sledgehammer ready. Like you said, Shaun, it's barbaric and messy, but it is also quick and painless.


^^^^^
very true mate

with the mentality of the type of people i'm thinking will try for the prize money,something tells me they'd be right at home with a hammer and a big rock

cheers shaun

[limey]

I would favour the lump hammer method if it came down it. Though I couldn't do my own, I'd need to call in a favour from a mate or something. It would be too heartbreaking. Over in half a second, another crack for good measure (just incase) and into the ground with a little RIP Cross for respect.

"Out with the invasive species" is my take on it. However, too many people out there looking for a bit of "machismo" and "yeehaaww, lets bag us some giant snakes!" trying to make a buck or two - hopefully there's not too many accidental killing of native species and most importantly, hopefully it won't cultivate a future attitude of "it's cool to shoot or behead all snakes on sight because they're all evil".

Let's hope the whole thing is being supervised and overseen properly and efficiently...

[Rogue628]

The only snake they've found so far is a Florida rat snake. Wildlife and fisheries estimated there was approximately 40 burmese pythons in every square mile. Funny they haven't found any yet. Now they're saying that the cold snap of 2010 may have killed off many. Uhh...ya think?

I doubt they find many, if any, at all.

[h3h]

they should really be TEACHING people how to HUMAINLY EUTHINISE these snakes though imo
cheers shaun

Only the animals that are thought of as "cute" by a majority of the population are allowed to be euthanized. If someone were to hang a dog off a chain by it's hind legs, slit its throat, let it bleed out and bellow in pain - then chop it up into different cuts of meat and eat it they'd be a "monster." (At least in the states) They'd be prosecuted, and cursed to wear a scarlet letter for the rest of their life. Meanwhile, slaughter houses that pretty much torture the animals most people eat everyday are just fine, because most of the animals are average looking at best and we only see the finished product, cleaned up and wrapped nicely in the grocery store. I'd eat any animal if it tasted good. Dog, cat, anything. I don't want to eat MY dog, I don't want to eat your dog, but in the end it's an animal, and I have no problem with it. For the record I've never done it, but if I was in Asia and it was offered I'd try it without a second thought.

Ever to pull an American away from a $1 double cheese burger at McDonalds? Impossible. Cute, pretty, beautiful, or considered such in the world we live in matters so much...Why? Vanity matters...Is a cow cute? I don't think so. A beautiful women, or handsome man seems to be treated better just based on looks. People judge others, and animals based on looks. Why do I want a Doberman, or a Pit, a Rot? They look mean? Is a Daschund cute? Don't we even base our favorite snakes off of "looks first" for the most part?

I live in south Florida, and this has been all over the news...Citizens in big trucks with baseball bats, axes, whips, machetes, guns, etc...All kinds of odd weapons that they are going to use to crucify these animals...It's horrible really, and I don't know how I feel about it. The reason it has come to this is because of irresponsible owners that end up with a 10ft snake that they don't want to feed, can't afford to feed, get bored of it, or move and cannot transport their snake due to the Lacey Act. As a whole the population doesn't like snakes for one reason or another...Kind of sad really. I think anything that has the ability to feel pain should have the right to a humane execution if that is what is called for...Snakes however, just aren't "good looking" enough to a majority of the population. Just my opinion...

- h3

[limey]

As a whole the population doesn't like snakes for one reason or another...Kind of sad really. I think anything that has the ability to feel pain should have the right to a humane execution if that is what is called for...Snakes however, just aren't "good looking" enough to a majority of the population. Just my opinion...

- h3

Agree. Maybe it's not that they aren't good looking enough, some people will admit they like the patterning and colourations... then it's the same people that squeal like a little pig when they see one in their yard.

I think it's not to do with looks, I think it's that many humans have quite a limited scope of understanding and "relating" to other species that are so unlike our own. Reptiles are so unlike mammals in every way. Homosapiens, especially the less educated ones, are not prone to wanting to protect something they neither understand nor pity nor admire.

There are groups & hobbyists like us plus the occasional individuals that break that mould and want to help world conservation efforts and preserve and protect all species. But most people just live for themselves and have their opinions, even if those opinions are totally ridiculous and unjustified.

[jarich]

The only snake they've found so far is a Florida rat snake. Wildlife and fisheries estimated there was approximately 40 burmese pythons in every square mile. Funny they haven't found any yet. Now they're saying that the cold snap of 2010 may have killed off many. Uhh...ya think?

I doubt they find many, if any, at all.

Ya this pretty much sums up my problem with it. I have no problem with trained professionals going out into the field and selectively culling. However, the likelihood of this joke making any actual difference to the wild population of burmese is pretty much nil. The likelihood that a bunch of dumb yokels will be running around killing indigenous snakes because they feel justified in it is much higher.

[limey]

Ya this pretty much sums up my problem with it. I have no problem with trained professionals going out into the field and selectively culling. However, the likelihood of this joke making any actual difference to the wild population of burmese is pretty much nil. The likelihood that a bunch of dumb yokels will be running around killing indigenous snakes because they feel justified in it is much higher.

That's what I reckon will happen. They didn't think this through enough...

[KORBIN5895]

Only the animals that are thought of as "cute" by a majority of the population are allowed to be euthanized. If someone were to hang a dog off a chain by it's hind legs, slit its throat, let it bleed out and bellow in pain - then chop it up into different cuts of meat and eat it they'd be a "monster." (At least in the states) They'd be prosecuted, and cursed to wear a scarlet letter for the rest of their life. Meanwhile, slaughter houses that pretty much torture the animals most people eat everyday are just fine, because most of the animals are average looking at best and we only see the finished product, cleaned up and wrapped nicely in the grocery store. I'd eat any animal if it tasted good. Dog, cat, anything. I don't want to eat MY dog, I don't want to eat your dog, but in the end it's an animal, and I have no problem with it. For the record I've never done it, but if I was in Asia and it was offered I'd try it without a second thought.

Ever to pull an American away from a $1 double cheese burger at McDonalds? Impossible. Cute, pretty, beautiful, or considered such in the world we live in matters so much...Why? Vanity matters...Is a cow cute? I don't think so. A beautiful women, or handsome man seems to be treated better just based on looks. People judge others, and animals based on looks. Why do I want a Doberman, or a Pit, a Rot? They look mean? Is a Daschund cute? Don't we even base our favorite snakes off of "looks first" for the most part?

I live in south Florida, and this has been all over the news...Citizens in big trucks with baseball bats, axes, whips, machetes, guns, etc...All kinds of odd weapons that they are going to use to crucify these animals...It's horrible really, and I don't know how I feel about it. The reason it has come to this is because of irresponsible owners that end up with a 10ft snake that they don't want to feed, can't afford to feed, get bored of it, or move and cannot transport their snake due to the Lacey Act. As a whole the population doesn't like snakes for one reason or another...Kind of sad really. I think anything that has the ability to feel pain should have the right to a humane execution if that is what is called for...Snakes however, just aren't "good looking" enough to a majority of the population. Just my opinion...

- h3

I agree with a lot of what you said is true enough but you can't blame the burn infestation on the Lacy act.

[EmbraceCalamity]

I saw this on Facebook today:

Hunters kill 11 Burmese pythons in Florida hunt - Outdoors - MiamiHerald.com (http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/14/3182591/hunters-kill-11-burmese-pythons.html)

~Maggot

[Rogue628]

Until they give us locations, names, measurements, and hopefully some humane pics, I won't believe it.

I saw a new video earlier that said they only found one snake and it was a native species. They also stated it was a little too cold for them to be moving. Now this piece says it's been warm. It's supposed to be an event with a prize given to the largest burmese found. But they're not releasing any information. Sounds a bit fishy to me.

This wouldn't be the first time reports have been hyped up, exaggerated, and down right lied about in reference to these animals. I'll need some hard proof before I believe anything.

[Kari]

I know a lot may disagree, but I'm actually in favor of this. As much as I like snakes, the burms in southern Florida are invasive. If we were talking about coyotes, deer, or hogs, or perhaps even feral cats, most of us probably wouldn't give a second thought to it. In this situation, we're not talking about killing people's pet snakes; we're talking about controlling/exterminating a population of an invasive species. If they had come up with this 4 yrs ago, it may not have resulted in the federal rule change of last year.

My only concern is that it may not be done right; as others mentioned, the most humane way of euthanizing a reptile in the field is full cranial destruction. It's too much hassle to wrangle a live, feral python out of the swamp and take it somewhere for a lethal injection. Not a efficient use of resources. And the substances they use for that is fairly regulated. You have to take a course and get certified to euthanize animals. Every Tom and Harry who gets the hunting license is not going to be certified to use those substances. A bullet or large mallet is a lot cheaper, and just as effective.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Invasive snakes are causing a lot of damage to the Everglades ecosystem. My main concern is that I don't think that letting a bunch of uninformed amateurs stomp around in the Everglades is a very good idea. Risk for environmental damage is high as is the risk for killing harmless endemic species of snakes.

[h3h]

I agree with a lot of what you said is true enough but you can't blame the burn infestation on the Lacy act.

Absolutely! I'm not defending those imbeciles in the slightest. Most of the people that I know personally, or even on this forum are highly dedicated to their reptiles. I do however think a small portion of people who have to move due to work related issues, family, or whatever the case may be feel trapped when they own one of these gigantic snakes. I think it's nonsensical that you are allowed to possess one of these snakes, but you can't take it with you. People consider their pets family...I haven't done any research on this, but I'm sure more people are killed by pet dogs a year than pet snakes. Snakes stay inside for the most part, and are secured at all times. I don't own a Giant snake, and I don't know if I ever will. I just think not allowing people to take the animal is stupid.


I think it's not to do with looks, I think it's that many humans have quite a limited scope of understanding and "relating" to other species that are so unlike our own. Reptiles are so unlike mammals in every way. Homosapiens, especially the less educated ones, are not prone to wanting to protect something they neither understand nor pity nor admire.

You said this much better than I did. I agree, and I think that is much of the fascination for people like us is that reptiles are so archaic looking - maybe that's the wrong word. They are alien, or prehistoric looking. People fear what they do not understand, and things or people that don't look like them. In the states it took 100 years after slavery was emancipated to actually get the ball rolling on equality. Pitiful as that may be. Just another example of the majority's irrational fear, or belittling of another group/species/whatever because it looks "different."


There are groups & hobbyists like us plus the occasional individuals that break that mould and want to help world conservation efforts and preserve and protect all species. But most people just live for themselves and have their opinions, even if those opinions are totally ridiculous and unjustified.

Completely agree.

Are your slaughterhouses not regulated? I have worked in one over here and this is most certainly NOT how they treat the animals that they slaughter. Every animal is assessed and the process monitored by a Government official too - they have the right to remove any carcass from the food chain if they are doubtful about its condition as well as shut down any abatoir that is not following due process.


I like to read, and I do so often. I'm not saying that there is not a chance I have been misinformed, but sure they are "regulated" - but that regulation atrophy's rapidly. When I was younger I worked in many restaurants, and they are regulated by the Health Department, but they'd always let us know when they were coming...The manager would have everyone running around getting everything up to snuff for the visit, and we'd still fail C- at best. They never shut us down. Efficiency seems to be more important than following policy, guidelines, and regulations. From my own personal investigation that seems to be the case as well in the slaughter houses. There just isn't enough man power to enforce the regulations. If someone can contradict what I've said - on a large scale - I'd be over joyed, but from the information that I've gathered that is not the case....:no:

- h3