Kingsnake Housing

[EmbraceCalamity]

So I'm considering getting a California kingsnake. A girl is looking to find a new home for hers, and I'd love to have a snake. It's being kept in what appears to be a 20 tall, though, so I know it would need a different enclosure. I read a good 7 or 8 caresheets on Kings and there's some conflicting information regarding housing. Some say a 20 long is just fine, and others say a 30 gallon is minimum. So what are your thoughts? And for an idea on size, this is the snake (which she says is 2 years old):

http://images.craigslist.org/3K33Ic3N65E55M95J8ccmc4cbb69faf021fc6.jpg
http://images.craigslist.org/3K33Ma3Nb5K85J55S5ccm8e1159c808b215a4.jpg

So what are everyone's thoughts? 20 long or 30?

~Maggot

[Corey209]

So I'm considering getting a California kingsnake. A girl is looking to find a new home for hers, and I'd love to have a snake. It's being kept in what appears to be a 20 tall, though, so I know it would need a different enclosure. I read a good 7 or 8 caresheets on Kings and there's some conflicting information regarding housing. Some say a 20 long is just fine, and others say a 30 gallon is minimum. So what are your thoughts? And for an idea on size, this is the snake (which she says is 2 years old):

http://images.craigslist.org/3K33Ic3N65E55M95J8ccmc4cbb69faf021fc6.jpg
http://images.craigslist.org/3K33Ma3Nb5K85J55S5ccm8e1159c808b215a4.jpg

So what are everyone's thoughts? 20 long or 30?

~Maggot

California Kingsnakes only get like 4' don't they? I'd probably go with a 30 gallon but I'm sure a 20 gallon would work fine.

Is that a Blizzard or snow? I don't see any patterning.

[dbank999]

IMO, I would go with the 30 since kingsnakes tend to be more active, and I always think it's better to provide a larger enclosure, as long as a proper temp gradient can still be achieved.

I do not have any experience with kingsnakes, but from what I found online, I *think* a 20 long will work fine for an adult as well.

[Lankyrob]

My theory on housingis to always go with the largest enclosure you can control the environmet in properly.

[EmbraceCalamity]

California Kingsnakes only get like 4' don't they? I'd probably go with a 30 gallon but I'm sure a 20 gallon would work fine.

Is that a Blizzard or snow? I don't see any patterning.From what I've found, average length seems to be about 3 feet (depending on source).

She said it's an albino, but since there doesn't appear to be any patterning, I figured that's probably not exactly accurate. I'm not familiar with King morphs though.My theory on housingis to always go with the largest enclosure you can control the environmet in properly.Normally I'd just go for larger, but I was gonna try to find a used one, and I figured a 20 long would be easier to find than a 30 gallon. But I wasn't going to get even a used 20 long if that wouldn't be sufficient. And if I can find a 30 gallon for a decent price, I'll definitely go that route.

~Maggot

[Corey209]

From what I've found, average length seems to be about 3 feet (depending on source).

She said it's an albino, but since there doesn't appear to be any patterning, I figured that's probably not exactly accurate. I'm not familiar with King morphs though.Normally I'd just go for larger, but I was gonna try to find a used one, and I figured a 20 long would be easier to find than a 30 gallon. But I wasn't going to get even a used 20 long if that wouldn't be sufficient. And if I can find a 30 gallon for a decent price, I'll definitely go that route.

~Maggot

I'm picking up a 50 gallon today for $40 :cool: but that one looks exactly like mine and I have a blizzard.

California King Genetic Morphs (http://www.blackrockreptiles.com/Californiakinggeneticspage.html)

[EmbraceCalamity]

I'm picking up a 50 gallon today for $40 :cool: but that one looks exactly like mine and I have a blizzard.

California King Genetic Morphs (http://www.blackrockreptiles.com/Californiakinggeneticspage.html)I live in a really rural area with almost no herp interest, so there are very few used aquariums for sale around here.

And that's good to know. Thanks for the link. :)

~Maggot

[Corey209]

I live in a really rural area with almost no herp interest, so there are very few used aquariums for sale around here.

And that's good to know. Thanks for the link. :)

~Maggot

I also found an eleven foot albino burmese with it's enclosure for $100... It was already sold :mad:

Your welcome for the link :blink:

[Terranaut]

Length plus width should be greater than the longest your snake will become. So a 5' king needs a 3x2. A 7' gopher needs a 5x2. You can go a little smaller or bigger without much issue. Less terrestrial snakes need less length and more height but for most ground snakes the above rule works.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Length plus width should be greater than the longest your snake will become. So a 5' king needs a 3x2. A 7' gopher needs a 5x2. You can go a little smaller or bigger without much issue. Less terrestrial snakes need less length and more height but for most ground snakes the above rule works.I'm not trying to sound like a smartass (but probably will anyway), but how do I know how big the snake is going to be? Average length from what I've found seems to be 3-4', but they can get up to 6'. So how...does that work?

Also, does the snake look a little small for 2 years? Or is that just me?

~Maggot

[Jlassiter]

Terranaut is dead on......You should not just throw a snake in an enclosure for the rest of it's life. The enclosure should fit the snake. If it is 2 feet long then it needs an enclosure that has half of its perimeter around 2 feet. As the kingsnake grows you increase its enclosure size.

Btw...L. g. californiae can reach 6 feet in length but typically are around 4 feet as adults.

[Lankyrob]

I'm not trying to sound like a smartass (but probably will anyway), but how do I know how big the snake is going to be? Average length from what I've found seems to be 3-4', but they can get up to 6'. So how...does that work?

Also, does the snake look a little small for 2 years? Or is that just me?

~Maggot

Aim for an enclosure to fit an average snake but be aware that it may need to be upgraded ;)

[EmbraceCalamity]

Terranaut is dead on......You should not just throw a snake in an enclosure for the rest of it's life. The enclosure should fit the snake. If it is 2 feet long then it needs an enclosure that has half of its perimeter around 2 feet. As the kingsnake grows you increase its enclosure size.

Btw...L. g. californiae can reach 6 feet in length but typically are around 4 feet as adults.As I read it, Terranaut said to get an enclosure that will fit the snake's adult size, and you're saying not to put it in one enclosure for the rest of its life and to get a larger one as it grows. According to most things I've found (with the exception of one website that went slightly larger and one that went slightly smaller), their average size is 3'-4'. A 20 tall (what I think it's in now) is 36", a 20 long is 42", and a 30 is 54". So...what am I supposed to do? Do I keep it what it's in (if it's less than 36") and then get a 20 long or 30 later depending on how big it gets? Or do I get a larger enclosure right away?

~Maggot

[Lankyrob]

I will firstly quantify my answer by saying i DO NOT have kingsnakes but i put all my snakes bar my GTP staight into adult sized enclosures with no issues whatsoever :)

[EmbraceCalamity]

I will firstly quantify my answer by saying i DO NOT have kingsnakes but i put all my snakes bar my GTP staight into adult sized enclosures with no issues whatsoever :)That was my plan, especially since I know these guys tend to be active and this one is already 2 years old, but that doesn't seem to be what Jlassiter is suggesting. And I kind of want to do what y'all think is best, since obviously y'all know more about snakes than I do. Just don't want to **** anything up here if I get the snake. :)

~Maggot

[Jlassiter]

Okay....take all of that information you have digested from many sources and use what YOU want....There's always more than one way that seems to work....

I suggested what I do and you do not have to follow it. I've been pretty successful in raising snakes from neonates to over 20 years of age.

Read my caresheet when you have time......and my Reptiles Magazine article...it applies to every colubrid I've kept. Both are on my website......It's alot of reading but many years of trial and error went into the write ups.....

[EmbraceCalamity]

Okay....take all of that information you have digested from many sources and use what YOU want....There's always more than one way that seems to work....

I suggested what I do and you do not have to follow it. I've been pretty successful in raising snakes from neonates to over 20 years of age.

Read my caresheet when you have time......and my Reptiles Magazine article...it applies to every colubrid I've kept. Both are on my website......It's alot of reading but many years of trial and error went into the write ups.....Okay, thanks. If the current enclosure is large enough for it right now, as it doesn't appear to be very big yet, I might leave it in there and then get a 30 gallon once it's bigger.

Quick question: I've read part of the caresheet so far, and you mentioned a humid hide with moss; will Eco Earth work? I already have that, and I'm told it holds humidity better. But if that isn't sufficient, I can order some moss.

~Maggot

[KORBIN5895]

I can't speak on the difference between moss and eco earth but I would say eco earth will work just fine. I use eco earth and it holds humidity like none other.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Another newbie question for anyone, so forgive me. Do kings need a UVB light? I have one that I just put on my leo's tank since my turtle passed, but she doesn't really need it. Some things I've found say yes, and some say no, so I just want to be clear on this.I can't speak on the difference between moss and eco earth but I would say eco earth will work just fine. I use eco earth and it holds humidity like none other.I know, right? I love the stuff. :D

~Maggot

[Jlassiter]

Eco earth or anything that holds moisture will work for a humid hide.

No lighting at all is needed for kings and it is actually best to not use one at all. The heat source should be back or belly heat that can be isolated to create a thermal gradient.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Eco earth or anything that holds moisture will work for a humid hide.

No lighting at all is needed for kings and it is actually best to not use one at all. The heat source should be back or belly heat that can be isolated to create a thermal gradient.Okay, I hadn't really planned to use lighting since I've been told that animals with red eyes are more sensitive to light. Just wanted to make sure UVB wasn't necessary.

~Maggot

[Corey209]

Okay, thanks. If the current enclosure is large enough for it right now, as it doesn't appear to be very big yet, I might leave it in there and then get a 30 gallon once it's bigger.

Quick question: I've read part of the caresheet so far, and you mentioned a humid hide with moss; will Eco Earth work? I already have that, and I'm told it holds humidity better. But if that isn't sufficient, I can order some moss.

~Maggot

My ecoearth keeps moisture very well, it took a few weeks before it dried out.

[7niteshades]

it looks like there is a faint white line going down his back? he might be an albino striped california king he's a gorgeous little guy 30 gallon is fine but the more room the better i say cali's are wonderful

[EmbraceCalamity]

it looks like there is a faint white line going down his back? he might be an albino striped california king he's a gorgeous little guy 30 gallon is fine but the more room the better i say cali's are wonderfulI dunno. The only other picture available is this one:

http://images.craigslist.org/3E83Fa3pb5Lb5Nc5G7ccmc9d454daaa461581.jpg

It's hard to say. I'm probably gonna be picking her up Sunday, so we'll see then. :)

~Maggot

[Jlassiter]

It's a striped desert phase amel.

[Jlassiter]

The more room the better is not true.....

Lampropeltis live underground. They come to the surface for moisture and temps. They are only found foraging above ground at night. Or they are found under cover during the day. They are secretive animals that love small/tight hides because they can dehydrate easily if their entire body is exposed for long periods......Moisture is lost through their skin and absorbed through their skin......the reason for providing a humidity gradient as well.......Again, just my experiences......

[EmbraceCalamity]

The more room the better is not true.....

Lampropeltis live underground. They come to the surface for moisture and temps. They are only found foraging above ground at night. Or they are found under cover during the day. They are secretive animals that love small/tight hides because they can dehydrate easily if their entire body is exposed for long periods......Moisture is lost through their skin and absorbed through their skin......the reason for providing a humidity gradient as well.......Again, just my experiences......Wouldn't that speak more to hides and a burrowing substrate than to size of enclosure though?

~Maggot

[Jlassiter]

Wouldn't that speak more to hides and a burrowing substrate than to size of enclosure though?

~Maggot
But why have a huge "terrarium" when the snake doesn't necessarily need to use all of it?

And yes that speaks more to hides and substrate, etc. But there is no need for you to set up a large enclosure like this.....Just one that half of its perimeter is equal to the snake......but, again.....do what you like this is just my advice.......

[EmbraceCalamity]

But why have a huge "terrarium" when the snake doesn't necessarily need to use all of it?

And yes that speaks more to hides and substrate, etc. But there is no need for you to set up a large enclosure like this.....Just one that half of its perimeter is equal to the snake......but, again.....do what you like this is just my advice.......I'm just speaking hypothetically. I don't have a flat surface (besides the floor) big enough for a huge setup. I'm just going to be getting a 30 gallon. I'm looking around for a used one, but if I can't find one, I'll just pick one up at the store.

The owner said she's 3 feet at 2 years, so would it be possible to estimate her full size based on that?

~Maggot

[Jlassiter]

The owner said she's 3 feet at 2 years, so would it be possible to estimate her full size based on that?

~Maggot

Size depends on husbandry, genetics, amount of prey, etc....

Some people have 4 foot long 2 year olds some have 2 foot long 2 year olds........

She's actually a pretty good size for a 2 year old......

The best thing to do is increase your enclosure size as it grows......Instead of trying to guess how big it will be in the future......

[EmbraceCalamity]

Size depends on husbandry, genetics, amount of prey, etc....

Some people have 4 foot long 2 year olds some have 2 foot long 2 year olds........

She's actually a pretty good size for a 2 year old......

The best thing to do is increase your enclosure size as it grows......Instead of trying to guess how big it will be in the future......I was just curious. Apparently she covers 2/3 of the perimeter of the enclosure. She girl doesn't know the size of the enclosure, but doing the math, if she's 36 inches, that should be 50% of the 72-inch perimeter of the enclosure if it's a 20 high. So I guess it's a 15 gallon.

~Maggot

[Terranaut]

If you are ever worried an enclosure is too big just add more decor/plants/rocks ect. Take up some of the space and your snake will be fine.

[EmbraceCalamity]

If you are ever worried an enclosure is too big just add more decor/plants/rocks ect. Take up some of the space and your snake will be fine.Nah, I'm not too concerned. Figure I could just do that if the extra size is a bit of a shock to her.

Anyone know what a decent price for a 30 gallon would be? Someone's trying to sell me one used for $100, which seems high. I'm pretty sure they retail for less than that, but there aren't many available online (due to shipping), so it's hard to compare.

~Maggot

[KORBIN5895]

That seems really high. A dollar a gallon is about average for a used tank here.

[EmbraceCalamity]

That seems really high. A dollar a gallon is about average for a used tank here.Any idea what they retail for? And I'm definitely not paying $100 for a used 30 gallon.

~Maggot

[KORBIN5895]

They retail around $2 a gallon.