Black Dragon Male X Sumatran Female Clutch

[Vital Exotics]

Dug up a clutch of 22 good eggs this morning from a Black Dragon male to a High Yellow Sumatran Female. This is the second clutch I have received from crossing a Black Dragon into another locality. I also have a clutch of 17 eggs from a Black Dragon Female bred by one of my Reptile Guru High Yellow males. It will be very interesting to see the results of these clutches.

This female laid 47 days post first observed copulation, which seems long, but her last clutch of 25 eggs was laid 45 days post first copulation. This is her 4th clutch in 8 months, and her first ones were smaller clutches (13 and 14) laid around 30 days post first copulation, so it seems bigger clutches=longer time to cook them for her. All 4 clutches were laid in the same area at mid 80's temps and nested together very nicely. I will keep everyone posted on the results.

The Clutch:
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h346/VitalExotics/Black-x-Sumatran-clutch-dirt-750.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h346/VitalExotics/Black-x-Sumatran-clutch-750.jpg

The Male Black Dragon:
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h346/VitalExotics/IMG_2016.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h346/VitalExotics/IMG_2014-1.jpg

The Male locked with Female:

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h346/VitalExotics/Sum-Ninja.jpg

The Female:

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h346/VitalExotics/Sum01a-500.jpg

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h346/VitalExotics/Sum01b-500.jpg

[Gregg M]

First,
A HUGE congratulations again!!!

Second,
My only concern is that it is theorized that the longer they are held, the more likely you are to have full term dead in egg. I have not seen any evidence that larger clutches are held longer in the female in any species we have bred and I do not see any reason why it would happen like that. From my personal experience, females retain eggs longer than they should when they are not happy with their nesting options.

[Pirarucu]

Congrats! I love all these breeding successes lately!

[Vital Exotics]

I can see your point Gregg, but I don't think that is the case here. Both clutches were nested perfectly as you can see from the pics, and there was no erratic test digging with either one. The eggs show for themselves, 25 good out of the last clutch and 22 out of this clutch with 1 possible infertile out of each clutch meaning 26 and 23 eggs out of a 3' 6" long female. Each time she eats all the way thru her cycle and did not lose any tail base size on the last two clutches. I would be seeing the opposite if she was unhappy with the nesting conditions. Plus the fact that she is producing these clutches so close together, 4 clutches in a little over 8 months, that is a lot of nutrients and energy needed to sustain, and one can see why a much larger clutch could require more time to develop. Thats my take on it anyway as I know her routine and see the results first hand.

[Gregg M]

I am glad you are keeping records of these events. I am just saying that it is not normal for any varanid species to hold eggs that long regardless of clutch size. It is pretty well documented that V. salvator lay 30 days after copulation consistantly. The only time they hold them that long is if they are not good with nesting.

[Vital Exotics]

Yea, I am aware of that data, but in reality how much is really out there and well documented on Salvators? Especially stuff you can trust? Also a lot of the data and other people with experience use the 30 days after "last copulation or separation" as their gauge. I am using 45 days after "introduction/first copulation" which usually happens for me on the first day, so in reality the time frames are very close as I pair my animals up for 14 days on average. I have had from 25 days post introduction with this female to 47 days and nothing has changed in her habits or the enclosure conditions except that her clutches get larger for the most part and closer together. We will see how the next one goes in a few months.