Listen up everyone, This ends.

[infernalis]

Over the last few months the overall attitudes of people here have gone straight down the sewer.

The time has come to end it, before anymore long time members bail on us.

The complaints and reported posts are piling up.

So here's the deal, wanna post like an idiot?? click here. 4chan (http://www.4chan.org/)

However, if you want to discuss herps, great happy to have you...

The next rule violation will get banned, if you are someone I would hesitate to ban, then I will let View Profile: Boots (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/members/boots.html) handle it. He won't hesitate based on any personal histories.

It's perfectly OK to debate and disagree on the forum, but if you feel the need to take a personal jab at someone, I would advise against it.

Name calling, bullying and putting people down is NOT acceptable, it never was, yet somehow we lost our way and the forum is suffering for it.

[BarelyBreathing]

THANK YOU! It's gotten really old.

[shaunyboy]

i'm glad you've finally said something Wayne.....

as said something needs to change before this place ends up with,next to NO hands on experience/knowledge...

and turns into one giant pissing contest..

imo we NEED all the long term keepers we have left..

re heres a thought
if the people who are,pickings peoples posts apart,arguing semantics,name calling,etc,etc,end up causing all the long time keepers to bail out...

then WHO will give out the " good quality solid advice ",if their reptiles have HEALTH or HUSBANDRY issues ?????

maybe then these members will regret their actions,especially when reptiles start to suffer,due to their being NO one left to help them ?

just my humble opinion

cheers shaun

p.s.if i have caused any grief towards the management of our forum,then i sincerly apologise

[EmbraceCalamity]

imo we NEED all the long term keepers we have left..Not to be a smartass, but aren't most people here longtime keepers?

~Maggot

[infernalis]

Not to be a smartass, but aren't most people here longtime keepers?

~Maggot

Yes they are, or at the very least aspiring to be...

Therefore demanding equal respect.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Yes they are, or at the very least aspiring to be...

Therefore demanding equal respect.That's what I thought. It's just interesting that it seems like everyone's talking about longtime keepers as if we only have a few and we're in danger of losing every single one of them when I'm pretty sure almost every member is one. So to lose a large portion of them, we'd have to lose a large portion of the forum, which seems very unlikely, to say the least.

Point being, I think y'all worry too much. Don't worry. Be happy. :)

~Maggot

[erichillkeast]

Not to be a smartass, but aren't most people here longtime keepers?

~Maggot

I don't believe that most people on here are long time keepers. I for one am not a long time keeper, and I see many posts from people that have just recently got their first snake. They just don't post the same quantity of posts as those who are long time keeper.

[EmbraceCalamity]

I don't believe that most people on here are long time keepers. I for one am not a long time keeper, and I see many posts from people that have just recently got their first snake. They just don't post the same quantity of posts as those who are long time keeper.You only have 17 posts. Not to be a douche, but I wouldn't consider you truly a part of the forum yet.

~Maggot

[dinosaurdammit]

You only have 17 posts. Not to be a douche, but I wouldn't consider you truly a part of the forum yet.

~Maggot

And that sounds a bit elitist. I think once you join you are a part of the forum. Liked or not depends on how you further post, but once you make that intro post everyone welcomes you to the "forum family".

[RandyRhoads]

You only have 17 posts. Not to be a douche, but I wouldn't consider you truly a part of the forum yet.

~Maggot
You've been here two months. Despite your ridiculous post count, I wouldn't consider you truly a part of the forum yet. Not to be a douche or anything.



He's a member and he's just as much a "part" as you or I.

[SpOoKy]

WOW...even on our "everyone grow up thread" we have returned to grade 1.

Very disapointing :(

[SpOoKy]

Thank you Wayne for trying to mediate things around here. There are some of us who know what this forum was like and how it has been as of late.

Can't risk loosing the long time leepers who contribute INFORMATIVE posts.

[EmbraceCalamity]

And that sounds a bit elitist. I think once you join you are a part of the forum. Liked or not depends on how you further post, but once you make that intro post everyone welcomes you to the "forum family".Really? If someone made one intro post and then never returned, they'd still be "part" of the forum?

I'm not speaking against whoever it was. They're welcome to be a member, and I have nothing against them. I just personally perceive being a member and being a part of a forum as different things. I'm allowed to have that opinion. Doesn't make him/her any less of a member.You've been here two months. Despite your ridiculous post count, I wouldn't consider you truly a part of the forum yet. Not to be a douche or anything.



He's a member and he's just as much a "part" as you or I.I never said I was a part of the forum. :) Also, you just said that you wouldn't consider me a part, and then said I'm as much of a part as yourself. So please make up your mind.

~Maggot

[millertime89]

You're here, you have more than one quality (I would assume) post, you're a part of the forum.

You want no drama? Then keep threads like SATN (despite the hilarity of the abbreviation) and SATN spin-off from appearing and threads like the Jamp one from taking the direction that it took. I've said it before, the forum goes in the direction you let it go.

[Aaron_S]

You're here, you have more than one quality (I would assume) post, you're a part of the forum.

You want no drama? Then keep threads like SATN (despite the hilarity of the abbreviation) and SATN spin-off from appearing and threads like the Jamp one from taking the direction that it took. I've said it before, the forum goes in the direction you let it go.

You linking the hot debated threads to other groups somehow helps keep it all drama free :rolleyes:

[Lankyrob]

I totally agree, i few bans handed out when necessary keep the flow of the forum heading in the right direction :)

[millertime89]

You linking the hot debated threads to other groups somehow helps keep it all drama free :rolleyes:

I'm not about to copy/paste a multi-post discussion for input by others.

[erichillkeast]

You only have 17 posts. Not to be a douche, but I wouldn't consider you truly a part of the forum yet.

~Maggot

Replies like this are the reason that I only have 17 posts ;)

[Aaron_S]

I'm not about to copy/paste a multi-post discussion for input by others.

And yet that's still no defense to bringing MORE people to a thread instead of letting it die.

[KORBIN5895]

Their are basically five types of members:

One post wonders - noobs that throw down a few posts then wander off.

Socialites- those that have little to no experience but just enjoy the forum and add a lot of ot posts.

The core - they know who they are and what they are about. If you question if you are part of the core then you aren't. If you assume you are part of the core then you aren't. You will know when you are part of the core.

Retirees - the old guard that just pops in occasionally and wouldn't recognize this place.

Fringe riders - those that come and go with the wind.

Post count doesn't matter. What matters is quality of knowledge. It doesn't matter how much you know but how valid what you know is.

The beauty of this forum is that we love quality info no matter what type of member it comes from. Another awesome thing is we stand up for our own as we try to stamp out stupidity and give solid info.

[Aaron_S]

Their are basically five types of members:

One post wonders - noobs that throw down a few posts then wander off.

Socialites- those that have little to no experience but just enjoy the forum and add a lot of ot posts.

The core - they know who they are and what they are about. If you question if you are part of the core then you aren't. If you assume you are part of the core then you aren't. You will know when you are part of the core.

Retirees - the old guard that just pops in occasionally and wouldn't recognize this place.

Fringe riders - those that come and go with the wind.

Post count doesn't matter. What matters is quality of knowledge. It doesn't matter how much you know but how valid what you know is.

The beauty of this forum is that we love quality info no matter what type of member it comes from. Another awesome thing is we stand up for our own as we try to stamp out stupidity and give solid info.

You forgot the lurkers.

[poison123]

Their are basically five types of members:

One post wonders - noobs that throw down a few posts then wander off.

Socialites- those that have little to no experience but just enjoy the forum and add a lot of ot posts.

The core - they know who they are and what they are about. If you question if you are part of the core then you aren't. If you assume you are part of the core then you aren't. You will know when you are part of the core.

Retirees - the old guard that just pops in occasionally and wouldn't recognize this place.

Fringe riders - those that come and go with the wind.

Post count doesn't matter. What matters is quality of knowledge. It doesn't matter how much you know but how valid what you know is.

The beauty of this forum is that we love quality info no matter what type of member it comes from. Another awesome thing is we stand up for our own as we try to stamp out stupidity and give solid info.

Im part of the core

[shaunyboy]

Not to be a smartass, but aren't most people here longtime keepers?

~Maggot
imo and i'm NOT being cheeky or insulting,NO not everyone on here here are longtime keepers

maybe i should have been more clear in what i was saying...

i meant people with years of hands on experience,not many members on here have the experience and quality advice,these people give out

Yes they are, or at the very least aspiring to be...

Therefore demanding equal respect.

imo we are all on a learning curve and as human beings we all should command the same respect

i was talking about years and years of hands on experience and the advice these people have to offer mate

I don't believe that most people on here are long time keepers. I for one am not a long time keeper, and I see many posts from people that have just recently got their first snake. They just don't post the same quantity of posts as those who are long time keeper.

thank you mate...

that was the point i was trying to make

You only have 17 posts. Not to be a douche, but I wouldn't consider you truly a part of the forum yet.

~Maggot

^^^^^
this is the type of crap thats pulling this place apart....

i'm sure someone like Mykee who's been on here since 2002,could sit and say that about 99% of us members

Maggot you may have a higher post count than the 17 of the member,your telling is not " truely a part of our forum "

but how much of those post you have are REPTILE RELATED imo not many

imo this forum is different from other forums,because we DON'T treat each other as random strangers,we treat each other as we would real life,face to face friends,with dignity and respect,why is that so hard to grasp ?

cheers shaun

[millertime89]

Funny, myself and a few others that I can think of don't fit into any of your categories.

[RandyRhoads]

Funny, myself and a few others that I can think of don't fit into any of your categories.
Oh there's a 6th category, we just couldn't post it here. :freakedout::freakedout::freakedout:


Juuuusst kidding....

[alessia55]

Everyone here who contributes in a positive manner to the forum by reading, learning, and/or giving good advice and knowledge, is a part of the forum- whether that takes 5 or 500 posts. We all need to start respecting each other more. We are here to discuss reptiles, expand our knowledge on them, exchange reptile photos and experiences, and enjoy the company of other reptile keepers.

[infernalis]

Oh there's a 6th category, we just couldn't post it here. :freakedout::freakedout::freakedout:


Juuuusst kidding....


Lead by example.... That my friends is how you take a friendly, drama free poke without being insulting.

[RandyRhoads]

Lead by example.... That my friends is how you take a friendly, drama free poke without being insulting.
No insult intended.:yes: Just trying to lighten otherwise tense mood. Hopefully my humor doesn't get misinterpreted by a lot of people.

[Little Wise Owl]

Thanks for this... It's been getting a little ridiculous around here with the attitude of some members...

[KORBIN5895]

You forgot the lurkers.

Actually I got tired of listing and cut ot short. They're a couple of other catagories like mine ( ignorant douches) that I did bother with.

No insult intended.:yes: Just trying to lighten otherwise tense mood. Hopefully my humor doesn't get misinterpreted by a lot of people.

You're a **** and family guy sucks!

[EmbraceCalamity]

You're a **** and family guy sucks!Anyone who doesn't like Family Guy isn't human.

~Maggot

[SnakeyJay]

I'm glad you've decided to change things here Wayne... I like to pick apart someone's post as much as the next person, but I expect a good conversation to come from it or to learn something new from it... Not the petty drama that's pretty much normal here now.

Newbs and long term members alike need to work together to get this place back to what it was.

[DeesBalls]

Anyone who doesn't like Family Guy isn't human.

~Maggot

haha couldn't agree more!

as to the post- im glad that Wayne stepped up and made a stand, i cut back on posting, due to the increase of negative responses, mostly from what i think to be newbies- since they are not here any more...

but lets just all be nice like someone's quote says/said- "The expert was once a newbie too" or something similar to that.

[infernalis]

Anyone who doesn't like Family Guy isn't human.

~Maggot

Agreed.. But American Dad is funnier.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Agreed.. But American Dad is funnier.I never got into American Dad. I only watched bits of a few episodes though.

~Maggot

[RandyRhoads]

You're a **** and family guy sucks!


You son of a....I will FIND you.....

[KORBIN5895]

You son of a....I will FIND you.....

Bring it gramps. I have a fire extinguisher!

[infernalis]

see that fire extinguisher right over there??

[RandyRhoads]

see that fire extinguisher right over there??
Ahahaha! That was the perfect set up. Slam slam slam....


Korbin, i'm immune to fire extinguishers. Apparently, nothing can extinguish me. Not even a huge bucket of water thrown on me by a hot girl after i've lit my head on fire trying to impress her....tadaaa....:freakedout:

[Wildside]

Actually I got tired of listing and cut ot short. They're a couple of other catagories like mine ( ignorant douches) that I did bother with.


Wasn't the point of this thread to tell us to stop being ignorant douches? See ya on 4Chan Kev :wave:

[SSSSnakes]

The concept is easy, RESPECT. We need to respect others and their opinions, even if we disagree with them. State your point, back it up by facts or experience and leave it at that. You can respectfully disagree with some one, but you do not need to call them names or insult their opinion. Many people do not post because they don't want the drama and verbal attacks that come from other members. Many times there are many ways to do the same thing, with the same results, but we do not need to put others down, because they do some thing differently than we do.

I consider someone a long time keeper who keeps more than just one kind of reptile and has for over at least 10 years. I have kept all kinds of snakes for over 32 years and run a snake rescue and adoption organization, as well as provide educational snake shows to the public. I feel I qualify as a long time keeper and have experience to offer educated advice to this forum. But many times I have not added to a thread do to the drama and name calling that was going on. I'm sure others have felt the same way.

[UwabamiReptiles]

I don't post a lot anymore(honestly its mostly just welcoming new members anymore). When I first became a member here, I stayed because of the atmosphere and just about everything was herp related. There was close to no issues with anyone being ignorant, stupid, childish, or anything of that nature. It was just a good ole' reptile forum with people that just wanted to talk reptiles. I still get on here pretty often but some of the stuff I've seen has really started to turn me off to the forum on a whole. Its not everybody but its obviously enough to start turning people away.

I understand that the forum is growing and with that happening there will be personalities that clash. But at the end of the day, I thought we were here to talk reptiles and offer advice so people can provide their animals with the best care possible. Not call people out and do whatever everyone keeps doing. The sad thing is, this isn't the first thread Wayne has started to tell all of us to stop being idiots and get back to why we are here. Since thats the case, I support Wayne 100% if he starts banning people. Hopefully that will wake people up.

[Rogue628]

The concept is easy, RESPECT. We need to respect others and their opinions, even if we disagree with them. State your point, back it up by facts or experience and leave it at that. You can respectfully disagree with some one, but you do not need to call them names or insult their opinion. Many people do not post because they don't want the drama and verbal attacks that come from other members. Many times there are many ways to do the same thing, with the same results, but we do not need to put others down, because they do some thing differently than we do.

I consider someone a long time keeper who keeps more than just one kind of reptile and has for over at least 10 years. I have kept all kinds of snakes for over 32 years and run a snake rescue and adoption organization, as well as provide educational snake shows to the public. I feel I qualify as a long time keeper and have experience to offer educated advice to this forum. But many times I have not added to a thread do to the drama and name calling that was going on. I'm sure others have felt the same way.

Well said.

[StudentoReptile]

Make your posts count, not count your posts. Its that simple.

[mykee]

The way this thread has degraded is exactly why I don't post here 1/10th as much as i used to. Though I love a good spirited debate, this has just gotten ridiculous.
I'll be back as a productive member of this community when this site smartens up and tightens up.

[Lankyrob]

The way this thread has degraded is exactly why I don't post here 1/10th as much as i used to. Though I love a good spirited debate, this has just gotten ridiculous.
I'll be back as a productive member of this community when this site smartens up and tightens up.

I for one miss your posts, i have the greatestrespect for yuor knowledge and we are missing a valuable resource without you.

[shaunyboy]

Not to be a smartass, but aren't most people here longtime keepers?

~Maggot

this is the type of keeper i was reffering to,when i made the post you questioned in your above quote.....
vvvvv

imo Mykee is one of the most knowledable Keepers on this Forum,with years of hands on experience,who keeps ball pythons into the hundreds,imo this forum would lose out in Mykee's abscense,as we would no longer be able to get the valuable information,he contributes


The way this thread has degraded is exactly why I don't post here 1/10th as much as i used to. Though I love a good spirited debate, this has just gotten ridiculous.
I'll be back as a productive member of this community when this site smartens up and tightens up.

Mykee,i hear what your saying and i thought about doing it myself,so i respect your decision

if you ever decide to leave for good,please pm me a way of getting in touch with you,as i value your opinion mate (especially on snake health issues)

cheers shaun

[StudentoReptile]

Not to knock Mykee's experience and knowledge (I concur with his BP smarts), nor do I care whether he stays or goes, but he's not the only knowledgeable person on ball pythons out there. I disagree that this forum would "be lost without him." IMHO, that's the kind of pedestal-creating that gives people their big heads, which leads to an excess of arrogance, which leads to people griping about them being rude.

Again, its not personal to anyone specifically. But your outlook is akin to saying this forum would be lost without Gregg's advice on varanids, Wayne's knowledge on garters, or my information on tortoises. It would go on fine if any one of us decided to take a sabbatical.

[Wyldrose]

Thank you Wayne! On some post's I really feel bad that a new poster gets a childish fight on their post with the OP's topic and question ignored, if they want to find an answer they have to weed through a bunch of immature name calling.

That said if you don't know then don't post just because it's fun to post! We have all made mistakes, and of course we all learn that way. I love how active this forum is, lots of memebers.

There is enough negitivty with the non-reptile people out there we don't need it in our hobby as well!

[KORBIN5895]

Not to knock Mykee's experience and knowledge (I concur with his BP smarts), nor do I care whether he stays or goes, but he's not the only knowledgeable person on ball pythons out there. I disagree that this forum would "be lost without him." IMHO, that's the kind of pedestal-creating that gives people their big heads, which leads to an excess of arrogance, which leads to people griping about them being rude.

Again, its not personal to anyone specifically. But your outlook is akin to saying this forum would be lost without Gregg's advice on varanids, Wayne's knowledge on garters, or my information on tortoises. It would go on fine if any one of us decided to take a sabbatical.

I understand your point but there are few people here that only post when they are right. I have asked mykee several times why he hasn't posted on a certain thread and he replies " I have no experience" or " I'm not sure".

As far as I'm concerned there are few people here that I truly trust with their advice. I don't want people that just regurge info they got off the internet that was authored by a person that had a cousin that was married to a person that had a friend that owned a royal for two weeks and feels they are qualified to write a care sheet.

The real issue is we have people that can't care for a pet rock trying to tell others how to care for snakes.

[shaunyboy]

Not to knock Mykee's experience and knowledge (I concur with his BP smarts), nor do I care whether he stays or goes, but he's not the only knowledgeable person on ball pythons out there. I disagree that this forum would "be lost without him." IMHO, that's the kind of pedestal-creating that gives people their big heads, which leads to an excess of arrogance, which leads to people griping about them being rude.

Again, its not personal to anyone specifically. But your outlook is akin to saying this forum would be lost without Gregg's advice on varanids, Wayne's knowledge on garters, or my information on tortoises. It would go on fine if any one of us decided to take a sabbatical.

i did NOT say the forum would be " lost without him " (those were your words)...

i said the forum would " lose out " on Mykee's knowledge,should he leave (there is a HUGE difference,in your statment,to my statment )


i said he is " ONE " of the most experienced/knowledgable keepers on this forum (not thee most)

i did NOT say he was the " only " one,but one by one we've lost a good few keepers,city snakes,gonesnakee,etc

re losing experienced members
if we lost Mykee,Wayne,Gregg.....

then your saying the forum would NOT " lose out " on having access to the information,these guys give out.....

so with a forum full of new keepers,who would give out the quality advice,that has been aquired from years and years of hands on experience...

the answer to that is NO one would

re on a pedestal
recognising someones knowledge and experience is NOT putting someone on a pedestal...

its merely showing recognition of their experience,NOTHING more

i feel your burying your head in the sand mate...

if ALL the LONG TIME KEEPERS bail...then the quality of information PLUMMETS,no ?

its NOT a PISSING contest mate,its all about the QUALITY of the information given out,nothing more imo

cheers shaun

p.si'm off to xmas dinner with the in laws,but i'll post an example of what i mean,when i have more time tonight mate

[shaunyboy]

I understand your point but there are few people here that only post when they are right. I have asked mykee several times why he hasn't posted on a certain thread and he replies " I have no experience" or " I'm not sure".

As far as I'm concerned there are few people here that I truly trust with their advice. I don't want people that just regurge info they got off the internet that was authored by a person that had a cousin that was married to a person that had a friend that owned a royal for two weeks and feels they are qualified to write a care sheet.

The real issue is we have people that can't care for a pet rock trying to tell others how to care for snakes.

i'm the same Kevin.....

if i have no experience in something,or i'm unsure,then i will NOT post...

i may post and point them in the direction of someone,who can answer their question....

but if i don't know something,then i'm the first to admit it and i keep out the conversation

imo theres too many people spouting regurged bad info from google,hell if you don't know something,then don't guess of become a google warrior

cheers shaun

[infernalis]

I know of one forum where I see a person post a photo of a sickly animal sitting on someone's lap and the handful of replies are always "oh how cute" or "beautiful animal, I'm sure it will be great in your care"

I certainly hope we never de-evolve to that...

[KORBIN5895]

I know of one forum where I see a person post a photo of a sickly animal sitting on someone's lap and the handful of replies are always "oh how cute" or "beautiful animal, I'm sure it will be great in your care"

I certainly hope we never de-evolve to that...

That place disgusts me.

[iBaman]

I've mostly stopped posting because of a certain few people who can't post without starting a fight.

[EmbraceCalamity]

I know of one forum where I see a person post a photo of a sickly animal sitting on someone's lap and the handful of replies are always "oh how cute" or "beautiful animal, I'm sure it will be great in your care"

I certainly hope we never de-evolve to that...God knows we never, ever will. XD Out of curiosity, what forum is that?

~Maggot

[Squirtle]

You only have 17 posts. Not to be a douche, but I wouldn't consider you truly a part of the forum yet.

~Maggot

Are you kidding me? Taking the time to sign up and having the ability to post the number of times you want DOES make you part of the forum. Not everyone has a large amount of time to waste on making a lot of posts.