western "mexican" first hognose... what to feed

[ashleynicole]

So we picked up a 2 year old mexican western hognose at repticon in orlando. My silly husband doesnt remember what size mice the seller said he was eating. I did hear him say frozen thawed mice. I bought a bag of fuzzies as I have a few smaller kings amd corns on fuzzies. But I also got some hoppers and weanlings. This guy looks like he could take a ho pper maybe even a weanling but as this is my first hognose I want to be careful. Also how often do I feed him? He is smaller than most snakes im used to and I read every 3-5 days due to fast metabolism.

Setup... aspen substrate. A water bowl on the cool side with a hide. Humid spagmum moss hide in the center. Under tank heater and another hide on the warm side. Temp on the glass om the warm side aprox 90 f.

He is very active also and im wondering if I should move him to a lower traffic area? As soon as a light comes on or we walk by he puffs and hisses. (I like him!... lol) I just don't want him overstressed. I guess I could throw a towel over his viv.

Thanks for any info!

[ashleynicole]

Oh and he is temporarily in a 10 gallon but I was planning on upgrading to a 20 long if that womt be too big?

Also how do I scent the mice with lizard scent? The seller mentioned scenting for his hatchlings but said this one didnt always need his mice scented. I have a bearded dragon... could I use him to somehow scent the mice? I know it sounds like a weard questiom but in 10 years of keeping corns, kings, and a ball python ive never had to scent except I scented a rat by rubbing it on a mouse for my ball python once.

[ashleynicole]

Im sorry... one last question. ... because this snake doesnt eat adult mice due to its small size... do I meed to be concerned about calcium or vitamin supplements? I ask because I know the bones arent competely ossified in pinkies and fuzzies so I would ne concerned about long term nutrition. .. or should I be? Will he ever get big enough to eat adult mice?

[Gregg M]

Do you have a photo of him next to something for a size reference.

[ashleynicole]

I have picture of him in the cup he came in. Its a medium size deli cup.

http:// https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/333367_463944263642778_1571165083_o.jpg

[ashleynicole]

The picture isnt working ...

http:// https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/333367_463944263642778_1571165083_o.jpg

[ashleynicole]

sorry about the multiple replies, I tried to go back and edit but it informed me you can only edit the post within 30 minutes, so I have to post again. I was trying to upload from my GS3 phone and it wasn't working so now I am on my laptop.

Here is a picture just taken from my husbands hand. He doesn't have very large hands either just as a reference.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/282870_10200158675989093_1639364242_n.jpg

[ashleynicole]

Can anybody answer any of these questions?

[Ryodraco]

Well the general rule I've heard is to try to keep the snake's food no wider than the widest point of their bodies, and here I've read with hognoses it is better to not push the limits when it comes to food size. As for calcium supplements, even if the bones aren't fully ossified there should still be a lot of calcium I would assume. Don't take my word for it, but I've never heard of hognoses needing supplements when eating mice.

[ashleynicole]

Thanks for the response. He still wont eat. I offered him a fuzzy sunday and another today. All he does is hiss constantly even while we are handling him. Should I offer him food every 2-3 days until he eats? I tried dangling with tongs and he did a lot of hissing and closed mouth striking. My concern is that he continues to hiss and flatten his head while being handled. Should I be concerned?

[Gungirl]

Stop handling him.. leave him completely alone for 4-5 days then offer food in his viv. All you are doing by touching him is stressing him out more and more. Hands off completely until it is eating for you.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Thanks for the response. He still wont eat. I offered him a fuzzy sunday and another today. All he does is hiss constantly even while we are handling him. Should I offer him food every 2-3 days until he eats? I tried dangling with tongs and he did a lot of hissing and closed mouth striking. My concern is that he continues to hiss and flatten his head while being handled. Should I be concerned?If your snake constantly hisses while you're handling it, why would you continue to handle it?! Stop pissing off and scaring your snake for your own amusement.

~Maggot

[Ryodraco]

Stop handling him.. leave him completely alone for 4-5 days then offer food in his viv. All you are doing by touching him is stressing him out more and more. Hands off completely until it is eating for you.
This is about my hognose rather than the original poster's but it is pertinent. That is what about digging him out of the substrate when feeding is attempted? I'm leaving mine be for a good week to settle in but when I do try to feed should I wait until he is on the surface? And what if by the time the mouse is thawed he is below the surface again?

Mine I haven't actually seen since I removed the background described in the "hognose update" thread, but hopefully he is just settling in or in shed.

[Gungirl]

This is about my hognose rather than the original poster's but it is pertinent. That is what about digging him out of the substrate when feeding is attempted? I'm leaving mine be for a good week to settle in but when I do try to feed should I wait until he is on the surface? And what if by the time the mouse is thawed he is below the surface again?

Mine I haven't actually seen since I removed the background described in the "hognose update" thread, but hopefully he is just settling in or in shed.

Place the food Item in the enclosure and walk away. If your snake is hungry it will get the food. You do not need to show it the food it will smell it out. If your snake is a really shy eater you can even cover the viv with a towel to make it feel more secure.

Cover the viv with a towel then an hour later toss in the food Item and recover the viv. Leave it alone for 10-12hrs. When you return if the snake has not eaten toss the prey Item and try again in 4-5 days ( I am guessing hogs need food more often than other snakes. I normally say wait 7-10 days someone correct me on my time frame if it is not right please)

[Gregg M]

If your snake constantly hisses while you're handling it, why would you continue to handle it?! Stop pissing off and scaring your snake for your own amusement.

~Maggot

Hognose snakes, Mexicans moreso, hiss often and most Mexicans never stop hissing and hooding. It is just how they are.

To the OP, this time of year many hognose go off feed. It is normal for them to not be feeding this time of year. Males are more prone to do so than females. If I were you, I would cool him down for a few weeks.

[ashleynicole]

Hognose snakes, Mexicans moreso, hiss often and most Mexicans never stop hissing and hooding. It is just how they are.

To the OP, this time of year many hognose go off feed. It is normal for them to not be feeding this time of year. Males are more prone to do so than females. If I were you, I would cool him down for a few weeks.

Thank you sir! You have given the most constructive advice, and may I also add, when I put in the search for hognose in the forum a lot of your responses to other posts really helped me a lot when I was trying to learn about this snake before I bought it. We have been researching hognose snakes for about 6 months before purchasing. I really appreciate your knowledge and experience.
I am glad to know that this morph it is normal for them to be hissy and display a lot. That's the number one reason why my husband bought him because of all the hognoses we handled at repticon, this one displayed the most and that was what he wanted. I wanted one of the western females that was really sweet and docile... but it was his turn to pick a reptile (I got my bearded dragon at the last repticon :cool:)... so maybe next time... haha

Gregg, do you think I should try to offer him food in about 5 days in his viv without handling, or go ahead and turn off his heat pad?? How cool should I let him get? My house is usually 74-76 steady and I am in florida so my garage still gets into the 80's during the day. would in my house, with the heat pad off be alright? When should I turn the heater pad back on??

Thanks for the help

[ashleynicole]

If your snake constantly hisses while you're handling it, why would you continue to handle it?! Stop pissing off and scaring your snake for your own amusement.

~Maggot
we are not "constantly" handling the snake or trying to scare him for our own amusement. We handled it when we brought it home, and the two times we tried to feed it. Other than that he has been in his viv, hisses and hoods when someone walks by or turns on a light. I did ask in one of my questions if I should move him to a lower traffic area, but nobody answered that questions. Everyone just jumped to the conclusion that I am intentionally stressing out my snake?

[EmbraceCalamity]

we are not "constantly" handling the snake or trying to scare him for our own amusement.I didn't say you're constantly handling your snake. Read again.We handled it when we brought it home, and the two times we tried to feed it.You handled a very aggressive snake while trying to feed it? Good plan.Other than that he has been in his viv, hisses and hoods when someone walks by or turns on a light. I did ask in one of my questions if I should move him to a lower traffic area, but nobody answered that questions. Everyone just jumped to the conclusion that I am intentionally stressing out my snake?If your snake is very obviously stressed being where he is, then yes, common sense would say to move it to somewhere that will stress it less.

~Maggot

[ashleynicole]

It is not what I would say aggressive snake. I think he is defensive if anything. And personally "embracecalamity" I do not appreciate your attitude. Im visiting this forum seeking out knowledge and you have given me no helpful advice.

If it is in the nature of this type of snake to hiss and hood then why would you say he is "obviously" stressed? I was asking if this is a sign of stress but apparently it is normal behavior. He is active and doesnt hide much except at night he seems to like to hide.


I do handle my snakes during feeding. Have for 10 years and only have been bit 3 times (always by snakes less than 2 years) here is my feeding procedure

1. Thaw mice and set out feeding containers
2. Warm thawed mice/rat in warm water and place in feeding container.
3. Wash hands
4. Obtain snake from viv and introduce to feeding container. Close lid. Ball python must have towel over his feeding container or he wont eat. Also he likes to eat in the evenings.
5. Transfer snakes gently back to vivs.

6. When converting to frozen thawed sometimes a long pair of tongs is used to move the prey in an attempt to get a finicky eater interested in prekilled food.

Also.. we have snake tongs and hooks... not to mention my husband is a law enforcement officer certified in handling venemous snakes and ... living in florida he has already relocated a baby gator from someones yard and a pigmy rattle snake from a dentist office in the last 6 months alpne(I will upload a pic of the baby gator)

So please don't talk to me like I don't know what I am doing. Im just trying to learn about the nature of this specific snake

[ashleynicole]

Here is the baby gator he got out of someones yard a few months ago. They were able to relocate it to a local lake where he lived happily ever after. Isn't he cute! :D

[ashleynicole]

We also live near glades herp farm and just for kicks, here is a pic of my husband (in the middle) with the brothers who own the farm and breed a variety of herps. We have learned a lot from the owner and people that work there

[Gregg M]

Ashley,
So far I see no problem with what you are doing. You have a Mexican hog that is acting completely normal. Take what is being said by EmbraceCalamity is saying with a grain of salt or completely ignore her posts. LOL. I know she might mean well but she has a complete lack of experience with snakes.

I am gad you have found some of my posts useful and I am happy to see you have researched hogs before buying one.

Your husband wanted the Mexican for the very same reason I love working with them. LOL. They are a very cool and active species and very few individuals ever calm down like westerns.

74 to 76 is not an ideal brumation temperture. Ideal temps would be no more than 60 degrees. Being that you live in Fl, getting them down that low can be a challenge for sure.

Honestly, you handling him has nothing at all to do with hmi not feeding but if you feel better about it, let him chill for a few days without handling and see if it works. I would not be worried at this point with him not eating and it would help to shut off his heat mat for a couple of week. Doing so will slow his metabolic rate down a little and he will be less likely to lose weight.

Thank you sir! You have given the most constructive advice, and may I also add, when I put in the search for hognose in the forum a lot of your responses to other posts really helped me a lot when I was trying to learn about this snake before I bought it. We have been researching hognose snakes for about 6 months before purchasing. I really appreciate your knowledge and experience.
I am glad to know that this morph it is normal for them to be hissy and display a lot. That's the number one reason why my husband bought him because of all the hognoses we handled at repticon, this one displayed the most and that was what he wanted. I wanted one of the western females that was really sweet and docile... but it was his turn to pick a reptile (I got my bearded dragon at the last repticon :cool:)... so maybe next time... haha

Gregg, do you think I should try to offer him food in about 5 days in his viv without handling, or go ahead and turn off his heat pad?? How cool should I let him get? My house is usually 74-76 steady and I am in florida so my garage still gets into the 80's during the day. would in my house, with the heat pad off be alright? When should I turn the heater pad back on??

Thanks for the help

[ada-man-teus]

Do what Gregg said. I have westerns and mexican hoggies and the mexicans are puffers for sure and love to show off. The size of yours should easily take hoppers and even young adults IMO. I would raise the heat and when feeding try to offer food without disturbing the snake first. I have had picky feeders in the past and found that placing them in a seperate container that is blacked out tends to do the trick. I wouldnt think you would have to scent, but if you do fresh salmon filet from the local grocery store works LIKE a charm. Hoggies are weird at times and will go off feed when they want to. It looks very healthy to me and wouldnt be concerned at all. Good luck with it. Nice looking lil mexican.

[Ryodraco]

Just an update on my own western, I took the advice to turn off the heat mat for a couple weeks and then turned it back on. This did seem to make Stubs more active as he started to move around above and below the substrate for the first time (he's usually out in the late afternoon). He often is at the front of the terrarium for extended periods so I hoped he was ready to eat, but repeated attempts to get his interest with small mice and then fuzzies hasn't worked as he just puffs at them. Leaving the mice in the terrarium for hours and even all day/night hasn't worked either.

I've repeatedly tried container feeding too, burying the small plastic container in the substrate with him in it for hours to no avail. Do you suppose it wasn't dark enough since I couldn't bury the container completely?

He was in his humid hide for the first time (that I know of) yesterday so maybe he is getting ready to shed, but with such a high metabolism I am getting worried about him not eating. He's a yearling but hasn't eaten once since I got him about a month ago.

[SnakeyJay]

Soo much easier to get a nervous snake eating inside the viv rather than out of it... There's no real reason to remove a snake to feed apart from personal preference or when co-habiting.

Goodluck :)

[ptbmaniac]

Mine prefer small rat pups over mice,but he does eat fuzzies(mice) also! It depends on he size of what we have! They can be picky though! Mine is just slightly older and bigger than yours. I should add that he does not eat much at all during the winter!