Scrubby helping us decorate +more

[stephanbakir]

We were decorating for Xmas, had the scrub out so she could explore while we got to work.
Finally got my female retic switched to rabbits about 2 months ago, thats her with a 12lb.

The reason for the scrub being in with the retic is simple, I'm attempting to breed them. (they have locked a number of times over a 2 month period, however I don't believe she is gravid)
Now, before people rant about hybrids being evil I'd like to explain myself and my position on hybrids.
I don't mind hybrids when they are treated as such, I believe hybrids should be labeled correctly, only sold to those who understand what they are and if forced to resell them, will label them correctly. I have just under a dozen keepers across canada that I know and trust, and 3 in the states that I know want offspring from the clutch should it even happen. If when she lays I have, say... 15 people who I know and trust who want babies, I plan to incubate an extra 33% of the eggs just in case some don't make it to term, and if they all do, I'll properly relocate the surplus offspring to the right homes or keep them myself. Another reason I'm being careful with the babies is because both of the parents come from species that fall under the "giant" category, scrubs get long and lean, retics get long and bulky. I don't have any idea how big the babies (if the pairing is even viable) will get, or what the temperament will be (This scrub is dog tame, but as a species they can generally be a handful)
The genetics of the babies will be 50% mainland retic (with a 50% chance of being platinum(fire) and will also be 50% poss het albino) and 50% Merauke X Sorong scrub.

I'd like peoples input on the pairing if you have one, but please make it CONSTRUCTIVE criticism only.

[Aaron_S]

I wouldn't consider the babies to be het or any part of a morph. I don't see how those genes will transfer to a completely different species.

I feel sorry for the naive people in this world. To think that people will actually resell these as hybrids or something. Especially if they come out looking more retic or scrub.

Ah well, good luck.

[stephanbakir]

I wouldn't consider the babies to be het or any part of a morph. I don't see how those genes will transfer to a completely different species.

I feel sorry for the naive people in this world. To think that people will actually resell these as hybrids or something. Especially if they come out looking more retic or scrub.

Ah well, good luck.
"morphs" have been well known to cross over in hybrids, look at most retic hybrids, most carpet hybrids etc...
Secondly, I NEVER said anything about selling. All of the hybrids going to people I trust will be more or less free, (they will pay shipping).

[Aaron_S]

"morphs" have been well known to cross over in hybrids, look at most retic hybrids, most carpet hybrids etc...
Secondly, I NEVER said anything about selling. All of the hybrids going to people I trust will be more or less free, (they will pay shipping).

Oh, I didn't mean YOU selling. When these finally get bored in their owner's hands or they need to make room for something else, or their car breaks down, it'll go. Hopefully with the correct label.

Anyway, some morphs do. Not all, but some may. Can you link to hybrids that as far apart as scrub x retic that have morphs carry over?

It's one thing for carpet to carpet or something close like king x corn. I have yet to see the burmball or even the bateater have a morph.

[stephanbakir]

Scrub X retic has never been done, however in bateaters
http://www.swikmossnakes.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-shopping-cart/product_images/122_femalebateater1.jpg
tiger bateater (super tiger X burm)
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc284/abi21491/Reticulated%20Python%20Caresheet/Hybrids/jungle.png
Platinum jungle (bateater X platinum retic)
thats all I can find right now

[Rogue628]

I'm curious as to how handleable these hatchlings will be since scrubs are known to be aggressive. With two tame parents, is it possible for those qualities to be inbred into the offspring? I'm excited to see how this pairing plays out!

As far as bateaters...and not trying to go off subject, but do you or anyone know of successful ablino burm x albino retic pairings?

[nick654377]

that scrub is an awsome looking snake. i wish i had the balls to house a retic. i love the way they look.

[Aaron_S]

That's cool that it worked with those. I stand partially corrected.

I still don't think things will switch over for scrub x retic. You'd need to do the cross again without the morph to prove that it has fire or whatever.

Rogue, to my understanding it hasn't been done. I could be wrong but I'm sure we'd all hear about the albino bateater if it had. The problem with that, isn't just having the two genes combine, it's if they are even compatible with one another on a genetic level.

In ball pythons, the albino, caramel albino and lavender albino are NOT compatible with one another so when bred together all you end up with are normal looking snakes double het.

[millertime89]

If you get extra babies I would love a pair instead of just one, especially if the look platinum-ish so I can try and prove it out.

[Rogue628]

Rogue, to my understanding it hasn't been done. I could be wrong but I'm sure we'd all hear about the albino bateater if it had. The problem with that, isn't just having the two genes combine, it's if they are even compatible with one another on a genetic level.

In ball pythons, the albino, caramel albino and lavender albino are NOT compatible with one another so when bred together all you end up with are normal looking snakes double het.

Thanks. My thoughts were along the same lines. As popular as both morphs are and yet, no albino bateaters, I was wondering if the two genes were compatible. Not only as far as having the physical traits show, but also babies that live. Isn't there a couple of ball python morphs that if combined, only gives you dead or deformed babies, to put it bluntly?

[millertime89]

Brian Shelton hatched out albino bateaters earlier this year, he's not spilling the beans on how though.

[Rogue628]

Wow. Kyle, you should share some of this info you find!

This Brian Shelton? Home - CSI (http://lookatmysnapper.com/) I'm trying to find him lol

[Aaron_S]

Brian Shelton hatched out albino bateaters earlier this year, he's not spilling the beans on how though.

I'm going out on a limb and my educated guess is that these are second generation bateaters. Albino burm x albino retic making double hets. Breed them to one another and you can get the burm albino or the retic albino to go together. No easy feat.

Can you post pics DC?

[millertime89]

They're definitely at least 2nd gen, I'm on my phone now, I'll find the pics later

[millertime89]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/335548_245648762171444_2060012264_o.jpg

Jungle retics het Albino.They are the result of my breeding a purple albino Tiger retic back to a visual female Bateater.

I can't find the pics of the visual female right now. I'll call him on Monday and see if he's got any pics of the female.

[millertime89]

Wow. Kyle, you should share some of this info you find!

This Brian Shelton? Home - CSI (http://lookatmysnapper.com/) I'm trying to find him lol

Yes that Brian Shelton.

[Aaron_S]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/335548_245648762171444_2060012264_o.jpg



I can't find the pics of the visual female right now. I'll call him on Monday and see if he's got any pics of the female.

Eh...less impressive now that it's a 75% retic.

Would have been cooler had they been 50/50 second generation.

Same with the above morphs. I now question them being fully 50/50 as that's TRULY what a bateater is.

Jungle retics or jungle burms are 75% one and 25% the other.

[CMRetics]

If you get extra babies I would love a pair instead of just one, especially if the look platinum-ish so I can try and prove it out.
I'd also be interested in a pair. Kyle let's split shipping bring them to the next RMRE lol.

[Rogue628]

That will be 3 of us splitting shipping since I spoke to him about getting one before he posted this thread. :D

[stephanbakir]

Both Kyle and rogue have been interested in the pairing for a while, CMretics if you msg me on FB (stephan bakir) or by email Stephanbakir@gmail.com we can talk.

Cooling my male for a few weeks and going to try again, these locks don't seem to be taking.

[Terranaut]

Very interesting pairing. Good luck. Can't wait to see them.

[millertime89]

I'd also be interested in a pair. Kyle let's split shipping bring them to the next RMRE lol.

If he gets babies by Tinley in March... not likely at this time though.

[shaunyboy]

Very interesting pairing. Good luck. Can't wait to see them.

^^^^^
what he said

i hope it all goes according to plan mate

cheers shaun

[Will0W783]

Stephan, interesting idea to try to breed them! I'm not sure about it though, as retics are genus Python and scrubs are genus Morelia. All of the current hybrids that I am aware of have been created from two species of the same genus. I bet they will be stunning if they do produce!

[stephanbakir]

Stephan, interesting idea to try to breed them! I'm not sure about it though, as retics are genus Python and scrubs are genus Morelia. All of the current hybrids that I am aware of have been created from two species of the same genus. I bet they will be stunning if they do produce!
Thats the only thing that has me wondering, It's one of the reasons I think the breedings never take, they lock every few days, shes not slugging out, nothing is happening..,

[Will0W783]

Yeah, I would think that is the reason Steph. I don't think they're compatible. You might be able to get it with in vitro fertilization, but that would cost insane amounts of money, and I'm not even sure they can do it with reptiles.

[Will0W783]

Honestly, I wouldn't have thought they would even try to breed; didn't think they'd recognize each other as potential mates. The fact that they are trying is encouraging; I'd suggest if you have time, do some more research into python phylogeny and hybrid attempts.

[millertime89]

There have been eggs from this breeding a few years back, female scrub was an old wild caught girl and she died before laying eggs. No autopsy was done that I'm aware of.

Retics and Burms are no longer in the same genus btw. Nor are boas and anacondas and those have been crossed.

[Aaron_S]

Honestly, I wouldn't have thought they would even try to breed; didn't think they'd recognize each other as potential mates. The fact that they are trying is encouraging; I'd suggest if you have time, do some more research into python phylogeny and hybrid attempts.

It's a hybrid. Doesn't happen in one pairing or in the first year.

Also, way more off beat hybrids have been made.

Woma x ball. Ball x burm.

I'm fairly certain a short tail python or blood python has been crossed with ball pythons too (though I could be really wrong on that)

[Terranaut]

Carpet and royal mix =carpall
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n214/tony290984/carpalls33.jpg

[millertime89]

It's a hybrid. Doesn't happen in one pairing or in the first year.

Also, way more off beat hybrids have been made.

Woma x ball. Ball x burm.

I'm fairly certain a short tail python or blood python has been crossed with ball pythons too (though I could be really wrong on that)

yup, called super balls or something like that. Also angolan x ball (not much of a hybrid but it still is one) creates the angry ball, pretty misleading name... Oh, and the short tail/blood crossed with a carpet, these things are SICK!
http://www.moreliapythons.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21624&d=1328378312

here's the carpal I saw in person. This breeder's table had a lot of colubrid hybrids on it as well.
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3114.sized.jpg

[reptileexperts]

Not that I think this will exactly work - but here is a little bit of information. Herpetologist now believe that Scrub pythons are closer related to reticulated pythons than Burmese pythons. Also the species concept of what can and can not breed is just our minds trying to understand a VERY complex interaction that we do not in fact even begin to truly understand. Species is just the classication that we give an orginism based on probability of producing viable offspring based on genetic similarities at both a genotypical and phenotypical level. Make sense?

[jarich]

yup, called super balls or something like that. Also angolan x ball (not much of a hybrid but it still is one) creates the angry ball, pretty misleading name... Oh, and the short tail/blood crossed with a carpet, these things are SICK!
http://www.moreliapythons.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21624&d=1328378312

Thats an awesome looking snake! Any idea how big they get as adults?

[millertime89]

Thats an awesome looking snake! Any idea how big they get as adults?

Nope, this is the first clutch that I know of and they've only been around since February. Since it was a Coastal x Black Blood I would assume around 7 feet in length.

[Pirarucu]

Personally I like it, and wouldn't be surprised if it worked. Retics have always looked to me like the middle ground between the Python and Morelia genera. They're certainly closer to scrubs than they are to balls, but ball x retic has been done.. Overall I think could easily work, and I'm quite excited to see the results..

[stephanbakir]

both burm X ball and ball X retic have been done, this isn't overly far fetched in my mind.

[Pirarucu]

Ball x woma has been done, and those are much farther apart than a retic and a scrub.