How much and how often should I feed [Archive]

dnoy88

12-13-12, 11:39 PM

My female sav is about 18 inches in length. How often & how much should I feed her?

I've had her for bout a week n I been feeding her about ten crickets a day and 5 to 10 meal worms and just started giving her pinky mice today, but I was only gonna give two of those every other day unless I should give her more than that or less

infernalis

12-13-12, 11:44 PM

may we please see a picture of your lizard?? I can offer better informed advice if I had a look at it.

Now, judging by what you said in the other thread, I would be shoveling a bunch of food at it right now and seeing if we can catch up on the growth a little.

infernalis

12-13-12, 11:48 PM

CMRetics

12-14-12, 12:06 AM

Any sort of invert pray as much as she will take daily. I offer food twice a day to my growing varanids, every other day on my big adults- as to not contribute to obesity.

infernalis

12-14-12, 12:10 AM

almost forgot, big slugs, snails, crayfish, crabs, and some like whole fish.

I say some, because Littlefoot will jump all over fish, Cera ignores them. When we had Chomper, he ignored fish also.

dnoy88

12-14-12, 12:23 AM

How do I post pics

LunasKiss

12-14-12, 01:05 AM

I just went through learning how to post pics, hopefully I can help you too. I use photobucket. Join and upload a photo, while viewing the uploaded photo there are a few options on the right side of the photo, if you click the IMG code it should copy immediately and then just paste that onto a reply or new thread and voila, a picture like this should show up:
http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p622/Koenig1993/Pets/IMG_0543.jpg

Hope that helps!

MrBosc

12-15-12, 12:16 PM

yummy foods that Savs like....

Mice, Baby Rats, Baby chickens, large roaches, crickets, locusts, big night crawlers (Lobworms or "night walkers" depending on where you live), whole organic shrimp & beetles.

Some people feed them eggs, I chose not to bother with eggs.
Will have to introduce some new ones to my Bosc, I'd like to get some baby chickens although I have never come across these in a pet/reptile store.. are they stored in freezers?

Donnie

12-15-12, 12:34 PM

Will have to introduce some new ones to my Bosc, I'd like to get some baby chickens although I have never come across these in a pet/reptile store.. are they stored in freezers?

Some rep shops stock frozen chicks but not all. You can always bulk buy online, there are plenty of suppliers to choose from.

infernalis

12-15-12, 02:03 PM

Will have to introduce some new ones to my Bosc, I'd like to get some baby chickens although I have never come across these in a pet/reptile store.. are they stored in freezers?

I would ask Steve Foo (monitormad) as I have seen countless videos and pictures of him feeding F/T chicks, so I bet he knows where to buy bulk in the UK.

MrBosc

12-15-12, 02:48 PM

Some rep shops stock frozen chicks but not all. You can always bulk buy online, there are plenty of suppliers to choose from.
Yes, I'll have a little look around and see what i can find. Thanks for the info :)

MrBosc

12-15-12, 02:49 PM

I would ask Steve Foo (monitormad) as I have seen countless videos and pictures of him feeding F/T chicks, so I bet he knows where to buy bulk in the UK.
Thanks Infernalis, I'll take a look for his profile now :)

Donnie

12-15-12, 04:53 PM

Here's a couple I have heard good things about (i will use one of these when I get the freezer space to buy bulk)

Frozen Chicks (http://www.frozenreptile.co.uk/frozen-chicks)

Frozen Chicks - RS Reptile Supplies (http://rsreptilesupplies.co.uk/epages/eshop514110.mobile/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/eshop514110/Products/ZCD010/SubProducts/ZCD010)

Edit: I have got a code for 5% off to use on the frozen reptile if you decide to use them, just PM me and I will send it to you

MrBosc

12-16-12, 07:23 AM

MrBosc

12-16-12, 07:25 AM

yummy foods that Savs like....

Mice, Baby Rats, Baby chickens, large roaches, crickets, locusts, big night crawlers (Lobworms or "night walkers" depending on where you live), whole organic shrimp & beetles.

Some people feed them eggs, I chose not to bother with eggs.
The mice and chicks, are they packed with goodness or are they pretty much just used for a treat?

infernalis

12-16-12, 08:49 AM

The mice and chicks, are they packed with goodness or are they pretty much just used for a treat?

Mice and chicks are good staple foods.

My two have been eating rodents nearly every day (as part of a well rounded diet with other items included) and they simply are not getting fat.

Where the problem is, rodents are high energy food, so you have to maintain a high energy Bosc, otherwise problems occur down the road, and people tend to blame the food, rather than the REAL cause, poor caging.

Ever notice that when we see a wild Monitor lizard in a documentary that they walk proudly with their chest/belly held up high and not dragging their gut like most of the captives we see??

It's certainly not because the wild examples belong to a weight watcher's club, it's not because they count calories in the wild, or because they are fussy over the dinner menu......... it's because their environmental conditions are correct for proper metabolism to occur.

infernalis

12-16-12, 02:04 PM

How do I post pics

Here you go........

http://www.varanus.us/SitePic/SAVphoto.jpg

Gregg M

12-16-12, 03:28 PM

Any sort of invert pray as much as she will take daily.

Their diet should not be limited to just inverts. They should be offered rodents as well.

I offer food twice a day to my growing varanids, every other day on my big adults- as to not contribute to obesity.

All of our adults eat daily and are not anywhere near fat. If your varanid is getting fat, your husbandry needs to change, not its feeding frequency or diet.

dnoy88

12-16-12, 05:44 PM

So after seeing that pic do think she's actually two years old if needed I can get a better pic with me holding her so that every can get a better idea of her size

CMRetics

12-17-12, 01:32 AM

Their diet should not be limited to just inverts. They should be offered rodents as well.
It's been proven that savs do not eat/take rodents regularly in the wild, I'm referring SPECIFICALLY to bosc monitors, not any other varanid. I feed everything else a wide array of food items. Although the only varanid I keep now is a niloticus.

[/quote]All of our adults eat daily and are not anywhere near fat. If your varanid is getting fat, your husbandry needs to change, not its feeding frequency or diet.[/QUOTE]

A. I highly doubt a wild monitor is eating daily as much as they want.
B. My husbandry is extremely on par, these animals will gorge and get fat "just in case" if given the chance, it's in their nature. They never know when a food shortage is coming, even in captivity.
C. Why should I NEED to feed it daily? I don't, my monitors are healthy and active, high basking temps, soil, humidity, exercise.

I've watched an animal if offered as much food as it wants get fat, even at perfect conditions, so I'll pass on that. ;)

infernalis

12-17-12, 02:31 AM

It's been proven that savs do not eat/take rodents regularly in the wild, I'm referring SPECIFICALLY to bosc monitors, not any other varanid.

You were not around last spring when Daniel Bennett showed up on the forum. We had a really nice conversation about the rodents, His main post is transcribed here....

Monitors & Mice, The Myth Dispelled (http://www.savannahmonitor.co/mice/)

These little machines are fed quite a few rodents..... They climb, burrow, swim, jump and I even have a full mid air barrel roll on film... Not even close to fat, nor lethargic.

http://www.savannahmonitor.net/Exanthematicus/images/outie.jpg

CMRetics

12-18-12, 09:20 PM

You were not around last spring when Daniel Bennett showed up on the forum. We had a really nice conversation about the rodents, His main post is transcribed here....

Monitors & Mice, The Myth Dispelled (http://www.savannahmonitor.co/mice/)

These little machines are fed quite a few rodents..... They climb, burrow, swim, jump and I even have a full mid air barrel roll on film... Not even close to fat, nor lethargic.

http://www.savannahmonitor.net/Exanthematicus/images/outie.jpg
Interesting read wayne, I still wonder if the fatty diet of rodents has some sort of negative effect on monitor lizards in general, but that of course can be fixed by keeping it active, something most keepers fail at.

infernalis

12-18-12, 10:42 PM

Interesting read wayne, I still wonder if the fatty diet of rodents has some sort of negative effect on monitor lizards in general, but that of course can be fixed by keeping it active, something most keepers fail at.

temperatures play a major role in Varanid failures too.

Chronic exposure to insufficient temperatures inhibits proper renal tubule function. (Layman's terms... the kidneys do not work so good).

keep them nice and toasty, they will thrive on virtually any whole prey diet.

I have 2 basking areas, both are close to 150 degrees, the air in that cage is so thick and hot it blasts me in the face to open the door.

The gradient is 75 degree dirt at the cold end, 80 degree dirt at the point where it starts to dry out, and the soil directly around the basking spot is hot.

Humidity ranges from near 100% down in the burrows, to 65-80% ground level with the lights on, 90%+ when the lights are off.

Let their natural metabolism work, and they burn off the food fast.

Healthy monitors don't sit idle, Set up a video camera and see what goes on when the room is empty, that's when the real magic starts.

CMRetics

12-19-12, 12:17 AM

temperatures play a major role in Varanid failures too.

Chronic exposure to insufficient temperatures inhibits proper renal tubule function. (Layman's terms... the kidneys do not work so good).

keep them nice and toasty, they will thrive on virtually any whole prey diet.

I have 2 basking areas, both are close to 150 degrees, the air in that cage is so thick and hot it blasts me in the face to open the door.

The gradient is 75 degree dirt at the cold end, 80 degree dirt at the point where it starts to dry out, and the soil directly around the basking spot is hot.

Humidity ranges from near 100% down in the burrows, to 65-80% ground level with the lights on, 90%+ when the lights are off.

Let their natural metabolism work, and they burn off the food fast.

Healthy monitors don't sit idle, Set up a video camera and see what goes on when the room is empty, that's when the real magic starts.
I've seen my niloticus use basking temps as high up as the high 160s low 170s, but most people use a silly little light that gets the basking to 90 and think "wow that's hot he'll do great!"

infernalis

12-19-12, 12:46 AM

I've seen my niloticus use basking temps as high up as the high 160s low 170s, but most people use a silly little light that gets the basking to 90 and think "wow that's hot he'll do great!"

Then post in two years "he died for reasons unknown" or "fatty liver disease"

Sadly, without the lab work, it's guessing.

A recent study of deceased Varanids indicated that gout was present in a decent percentage of carcasses examined.

Now that I somewhat understand their physiology, I'd wager a very large amount of the Varanids that die in the hands of hobby herpers died from advanced renal failure brought on by crap caging.

Pirarucu

12-19-12, 01:59 PM

While we're on the topic of caging, I'm curious. Wayne, when you get their next cage set up, will you be keeping the basking temps as they are now, or will you be providing access to even higher temps? I mean, if yours were using 140-150 as hatchlings, you have to wonder just how hot an adult will use..

infernalis

12-19-12, 02:09 PM

With the extra space, I could easily try a hotter basking spot, if they use it, great, if not oh well.

Pirarucu

12-19-12, 02:42 PM

My thoughts exactly.

MrBosc

12-20-12, 06:03 AM

yummy foods that Savs like....

Mice, Baby Rats, Baby chickens, large roaches, crickets, locusts, big night crawlers (Lobworms or "night walkers" depending on where you live), whole organic shrimp & beetles.

Some people feed them eggs, I chose not to bother with eggs.
what's your view on the baby chicks in terms of their goodness? I went to my local reptile shop and he actually advised me not to buy some off him as they aren't really that good?

infernalis

12-20-12, 06:13 AM

what's your view on the baby chicks in terms of their goodness? I went to my local reptile shop and he actually advised me not to buy some off him as they aren't really that good?

As part of a well rounded diet, Chicks are fine mate.

Pirarucu

12-20-12, 08:00 AM

There was actually a study done on that recently, chicks have the same nutritional value as rodents. Unweaned rodents (pinks, fuzzies, etc.) actually have less nutritional value than chicks, due to the lack of calcified bones and developed muscle mass.

Gregg, how much do you feed daily? As much as they want or is it a more regulated schedule? I've been wondering if their diets really need to be cut back as they mature, if they are given proper conditions.

infernalis

12-20-12, 08:53 AM

how much do you feed daily? As much as they want or is it a more regulated schedule? I've been wondering if their diets really need to be cut back as they mature, if they are given proper conditions.

Allow me to interject.....

A pattern that I have observed, mine are nearing maturity, and I am seeing periods where my lizards appear satiated (not really hungry) and will not necessarily fly out of the burrow at the first hint of food.

I have put food items back in the fridge before.

Apparently they know when they need to eat, and when they don't.

Not that I can say first hand with monitors, but when I see most any wild animal that discovers the dream location of limitless food.. like the water snake that finds the fish infested puddle or the rodent eaters that move into a mouse infested barn... are they obese?? hell no, they get big, they get strong, they (ahem) thrive.

When my barn was truly active, and we kept bins of sweet feed out there, it became overrun with rodents, The milk snakes showed up, and the ones I saw around my barn were huge, but unless they just recently fed, never FAT or slow.

Pirarucu

12-20-12, 09:11 AM

Allow me to interject.....

A pattern that I have observed, mine are nearing maturity, and I am seeing periods where my lizards appear satiated (not really hungry) and will not necessarily fly out of the burrow at the first hint of food.

I have put food items back in the fridge before.

Apparently they know when they need to eat, and when they don't.

Not that I can say first hand with monitors, but when I see most any wild animal that discovers the dream location of limitless food.. like the water snake that finds the fish infested puddle or the rodent eaters that move into a mouse infested barn... are they obese?? hell no, they get big, they get strong, they (ahem) thrive.

When my barn was truly active, and we kept bins of sweet feed out there, it became overrun with rodents, The milk snakes showed up, and the ones I saw around my barn were huge, but unless they just recently fed, never FAT or slow.My thoughts exactly. Daniel Benett observed in the wild that they would go and fill up on food, then return to their burrows. None of them are obese. Why should the same not be true in captivity?

MrBosc

12-20-12, 01:13 PM

As part of a well rounded diet, Chicks are fine mate.
Thanks Infernalis =]

dnoy88

12-23-12, 03:04 AM

Ok so I have been feeding my baby sav two pinkies a day some times three and and five large crickets and sometimes I'll throw in a few meal worms is this substantial or should I increase the feeding she seem to take every time exept for the meal worms she doesn't always take those unless I give her them first I'm guessing its because she doesn't care for them as much as the other food

Pirarucu

12-23-12, 09:07 AM

If she's eighteen inches, it should be more than that. Give her as much as she wants. Though I'd scrap the mealworms, there isn't really any good nutritional value in them.

dnoy88

12-23-12, 01:06 PM

Ok should I stay with two to three pinkies a day and up the crickets or should up the amount of pinkies or both because on one of the websites I had read when I first got her and was doing a little research it said two-four pinkies ever two days or can I give her as many pinkies a day as shell take

Pirarucu

12-23-12, 04:56 PM

Up everything. I'd say mainly up the crickets, but more pinkies too. You also want to try throwing some variety in there. Try earthworms and roaches as well.

dnoy88

12-23-12, 07:48 PM

Pirarucu

12-23-12, 11:15 PM

You don't need to buy from Petco.. Start your own roach colony, and buy nightcrawlers from a fishing shop nearby.

infernalis

12-23-12, 11:32 PM

They don't do earthworms or roaches here at this petco but one of the ladies there said I could feed her some Minos is this true I bought a few me way before researching though because I needed something and they were out of crickets and frozen pinkies because their shipment got rerouted I haven't fed them to her yet though

I Buy my night crawlers in the sporting goods section of Wal Mart.

Every wal mart has a big cooler full of worms next to the fishing poles and lures.

Whole raw shrimp (organic) can be found at most larger grocery stores.

Asian Markets often sell snails and small crabs really cheap too.

dnoy88

12-23-12, 11:53 PM

Ok thank you that helps.... But also what about the Minos are those ok to feed

infernalis

12-24-12, 12:37 AM

What's a Mino ???

EmbraceCalamity

12-24-12, 12:57 AM

What's a Mino ???I think she means minnow and just can't spell.

~Maggot

infernalis

12-24-12, 02:12 AM

As many minnows as it will eat. whole live minnows are good food, provided the lizard will take it.

Some Savs are not real keen on eating fish, I have one that destroys minnows, the other could care less and does not recognise them as a food item.