17ft Jampea Retic

[millertime89]

I've posted about these before but figured I would start a new thread. This is Jason (son of the late Jim, RIP) Gaspar's 17ft female Jampea locality reticulated python. While they normally top out between 10 and 14 ft, they can get bigger, much bigger.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/197827_499119636794317_1997060980_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/173_20458135701_1358_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/173_20458140701_1666_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/173_20458145701_1982_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/173_20458150701_2293_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/173_20458155701_2610_n.jpg

[iBaman]

bahaha, oh shane...the faces that boy can make. epic snake =]

[millertime89]

Shane cracks me up. No floating epicness here though.
All of these pics are from Shane Costello (SCConstrictors) or Jake Klotz.

[reptileexperts]

It's important to remember that the one cases is not always the norm. Let's consider how large mainlands get on average, 21 ft? Ok, and that one time, 33 ft? wow that's a huge difference!

Research specific to the Jampea retics have shown that in the wild and for the most part in captivity they reach 8-11 ft. They have been known to become monsters like this one that the Gaspar's have. But it's an oddity and just a "could be" result. Just like any mainland could potentially get to 30 ft, it's highly unlikely.

Dwarf Retics in captivity do contain the ability to grow to larger than "wild" specimens purely because of the amounts of food presented to them during their growing times. In the wild they still small due to being from an island with limited food. An interesting study showed that Jampea diet heavily on birds, and that their food intake mainly happens once a year. They will literally go with very little food during the non-breeding season, and as soon as the avian breeding season hits for the island and all the migratory birds flock in, these guys will go on a massive feeding rampage and consume large amounts in a short time holding them through the year.

I'm not saying that the Gaspar's power fed, over fed, or what not. But I am saying that under normal dwarf feeding conditions, a healthy, trim, jampea that is pure in locale, will not get over 11 ft for a female unless its from huge parents. Always remember Natural history is crucial to our understanding of snakes in captivity and should always be mentioned when we talk about locales, especially dwarf.

Cheers!

[Lankyrob]

Nice snakes but newbies should note http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/94210-snakes-around-neck.html :)

[millertime89]

It's important to remember that the one cases is not always the norm. Let's consider how large mainlands get on average, 21 ft? Ok, and that one time, 33 ft? wow that's a huge difference!

Research specific to the Jampea retics have shown that in the wild and for the most part in captivity they reach 8-11 ft. They have been known to become monsters like this one that the Gaspar's have. But it's an oddity and just a "could be" result. Just like any mainland could potentially get to 30 ft, it's highly unlikely.

Dwarf Retics in captivity do contain the ability to grow to larger than "wild" specimens purely because of the amounts of food presented to them during their growing times. In the wild they still small due to being from an island with limited food. An interesting study showed that Jampea diet heavily on birds, and that their food intake mainly happens once a year. They will literally go with very little food during the non-breeding season, and as soon as the avian breeding season hits for the island and all the migratory birds flock in, these guys will go on a massive feeding rampage and consume large amounts in a short time holding them through the year.

I'm not saying that the Gaspar's power fed, over fed, or what not. But I am saying that under normal dwarf feeding conditions, a healthy, trim, jampea that is pure in locale, will not get over 11 ft for a female unless its from huge parents. Always remember Natural history is crucial to our understanding of snakes in captivity and should always be mentioned when we talk about locales, especially dwarf.

Cheers!

I'm in no way implying this is normal (if it came across that way my apologies). I simply wanted to show that just because these are sometimes considered "dwarfs", they still sometimes have the potential to become quite large snakes. The Gaspar's feeding regimens have been duplicated and nobody else has had the same results. That said there have been several pure Jamp females that have grown larger than 11. I'm not sold on the larger ones only coming from big parents or from power feeding.

The study you speak of, is that the same study that lays out their taxonomic classification? I think it was Auliya, 2002.

Nice snakes but newbies should note http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/94210-snakes-around-neck.html :)

Notice multiple people in the area? Ever been around a snake this size? They tend to go where they want and all you can do is try and guide them.

[reptileexperts]

Lol genetics are built on larger ones making larger ones. . . we see that in every living organism :-) And yes the study is the 2002 classification paper on reticulated pythons. Staple paper and a great resource I've mentioned numerous times because I believe that it is that important to know!

Miller, you should check out this weeks podcast from Radiolab - Inheritance. GREAT episode and really touches on so many of the principles in genetics!!

[GUITARZAN509]

Nice looking snake, guy in the hat isnt too smart leting it coil around his neck in the one pic, kind of like sticking your head in a lions mouth, just my .02

[bushsnake]

i know Shane. Is this retic in Illinois?

[Lankyrob]

Notice multiple people in the area? Ever been around a snake this size? They tend to go where they want and all you can do is try and guide them.

Yes, and Yes but never let it near mine or anyone elses neck :rolleyes:

[millertime89]

Lol genetics are built on larger ones making larger ones. . . we see that in every living organism :-) And yes the study is the 2002 classification paper on reticulated pythons. Staple paper and a great resource I've mentioned numerous times because I believe that it is that important to know!

Miller, you should check out this weeks podcast from Radiolab - Inheritance. GREAT episode and really touches on so many of the principles in genetics!!

Yeah I've read the study, I'll go back and do so again, I agree its a great paper that people interested in retics should read.
link? PM me if you want.

[CK SandBoas]

What an impressive Retic!!! :)

[moshirimon]

super cool pics. never seen a jamp of this size.

[reptileexperts]

http://www.reticulatedpython.info/me/papers/retic%20paper.pdf
no need to PM, anyone on this thread should read this paper IMO.

[millertime89]

I meant the interview, lol

edit: But yes, everyone should read that study.

[Rogue628]

Very impressive and beautiful animal!

[CMRetics]

The people posting here, saying "never let it around your neck" have obviously never had extensive periods of time with retics- LET ALONE jamps. Go youtube the video lasting about a minute with that same jamp, the whole time all she wants to do is go up up up!. Good luck stopping that, the people in the picture are fine.

[Lankyrob]

The people posting here, saying "never let it around your neck" have obviously never had extensive periods of time with retics- LET ALONE jamps. Go youtube the video lasting about a minute with that same jamp, the whole time all she wants to do is go up up up!. Good luck stopping that, the people in the picture are fine.


It was only me saying it, i havent experienced "lots" of retics or burms for that matter but the ones i have been around the owners have guided the snakes head to keep it from going near anyones neck.

[GUITARZAN509]

it was only me saying it, i havent experienced "lots" of retics or burms for that matter but the ones i have been around the owners have guided the snakes head to keep it from going near anyones neck. And me also, ive worked with bigger burms than that and you just dont do that kind of thing, not if your knowledgeble

[KORBIN5895]

It was only me saying it, i havent experienced "lots" of retics or burms for that matter but the ones i have been around the owners have guided the snakes head to keep it from going near anyones neck.

You can't fix stupid Rob. If they want to make excuses about why it happened and why that's okay then it's on there shoulders not yours.

[Lankyrob]

You can't fix stupid Rob. If they want to make excuses about why it happened and why that's okay then it's on there shoulders not yours.

I totally agree :) but as withother threads the issue needs to be raised to protect those that dont know better.

If experienced keepers want to free handle hots or put their snakes around their necks and get killed then that is their choice, if an inexperienced person does it because they dont know better then that is OUR fault as keepers :)

[reptileexperts]

... if an inexperienced person does it because they dont know better then that is OUR fault as keepers :)

Or is it natural selection ;-)

[Aaron_S]

The scary part about this thread is that the excuse/reason for the animal not being "guided" is that it's "too big" and just "does what it wants".

If you aren't in control of a situation with a docile animal then I'd hate to see the pictures of you in a situation with a non-docile animal. Clearly these people should not own these animals.

[Lankyrob]

Or is it natural selection ;-)

Natural selection is when the new keeper does no research, our responsibility is to those that DO research. We need to present good practice so that their research is worthwhile and effective.

This (imo) is why the Aarons and Mykees are so important to this hobby, they stamp out stupidity and replace it with facts that are straightforward and easy for the new person to understand - no deciphering flowery posts that go round and round the point without actually saying it :)

[millertime89]

Around the neck is different from on your shoulders, seems the two are getting lumped together. There is one picture posted where the tip of the tail is curled around Jake's neck.

[lady_bug87]

I think a definition is a good idea.

Kyle, would you mind giving a definition of what "around the neck" and "around the shoulders"? mean and how they differ when working with giants?

Like do you define "around the neck" as being coiled COMPLETELY around whereas the other is partially?

I thought (in my extreme lack of knowledge in working with giants since I dont work with any at all nor do I ever intend to) that to "control" the animal it should be around one shoulder and brought across the back on to the opposite forearm.

and pardon me but if that is your definition I still wouldnt feel comfortable with having a 17ft snake around my "shoulders" cradling both sides of my neck.

but that last bit is just me

[millertime89]

Wayne or Alessia could you separate this into a separate thread (but not the "snakes around the neck" thread)?

[millertime89]

I just removed this one from my neck after it started to wrap
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3348.sized.jpg

close but not much to worry about IMO yet
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3353.sized.jpg

was on his shoulders a moment ago, moved to his head.
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3317.sized.jpg

shoulders
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3436.sized.jpg

Jake again, shoulders, he had this girl there for quite some time, more than an hour at least
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3427.sized.jpg

this was "wrapped" but its the same pied and there was more than 2 ft between the lower portion of the coil and his windpipe. Don't have a better picture.
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3414_1.sized.jpg

[Aaron_S]

I think a definition is a good idea.

Kyle, would you mind giving a definition of what "around the neck" and "around the shoulders"? mean and how they differ when working with giants?

Like do you define "around the neck" as being coiled COMPLETELY around whereas the other is partially?

I thought (in my extreme lack of knowledge in working with giants since I dont work with any at all nor do I ever intend to) that to "control" the animal it should be around one shoulder and brought across the back on to the opposite forearm.

and pardon me but if that is your definition I still wouldnt feel comfortable with having a 17ft snake around my "shoulders" cradling both sides of my neck.

but that last bit is just me

I think a snake over the shoulder and not around it is probably the most viable option. You can control the situation with the snake as the other part could be around your waist.

With that said, one person shouldn't never handle a large snake alone. Not only someone in just the same room but two people should have hands on the animal at all times.

DC, there's no reason to open a new thread as this topic pertains to the pictures. Yes, it's slightly different but still on topic.

[Aaron_S]

shoulders
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3436.sized.jpg

To have fun in this thread, DC, stop growing facial hair. ;)


Now this is facial hair!

To be on topic, I don't know where you went to school but that sure isn't my shoulders. If something is on my shoulder it isn't against my chin and wrapped around the back of the neck. I personally think this shouldn't be held this way. Over the shoulder and around the waist is much better. Also better for your back/neck's physical shape.
Jake again, shoulders, he had this girl there for quite some time, more than an hour at least
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3427.sized.jpg

[millertime89]

With that said, one person shouldn't never handle a large snake alone. Not only someone in just the same room but two people should have hands on the animal at all times.

Ever seen pictures of just one person handling a big snake with it on their shoulders? Think about that for a minute...

[Lankyrob]

I just removed this one from my neck after it started to wrap
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3348.sized.jpg

close but not much to worry about IMO yet
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3353.sized.jpg

was on his shoulders a moment ago, moved to his head.
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3317.sized.jpg

shoulders
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3436.sized.jpg

Jake again, shoulders, he had this girl there for quite some time, more than an hour at least
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3427.sized.jpg

this was "wrapped" but its the same pied and there was more than 2 ft between the lower portion of the coil and his windpipe. Don't have a better picture.
http://www.1320video.com/img/album404/MG_3414_1.sized.jpg

Remember the concern isnt about strangulation where the snake needs a complete coil around the throat, its about the ability to squeeze pressure points on the sides of the neck and down to the top of the shoulder area.

The only photo of those posted that is "safe" imo is the one on top of the head.

[millertime89]

To have fun in this thread, DC, stop growing facial hair. ;)

Now this is facial hair!

I wish I could grow facial hair like Jake, I can only get the goatee, its patchy everywhere else.

[Aaron_S]

I wish I could grow facial hair like Jake, I can only get the goatee, its patchy everywhere else.

We know DC and glad you shaved since you continue showing us pictures.

You're just too white lol

[millertime89]

Shane specifically asked me to share this. He's the one with the silver pied resting her head on the back of his neck.

This was the trip out to Bob Clark facility. This girl was a puppy~! It was awesome to be able to interact with one of the FIRST CBB Sunfires! This girl was produced by Bob Clarks OG WC male Super Sunfire! She was alot of fun to interact with! Sunfire in my opinion is the BEST gene in the Retic world!
These animals need to be respected AND understood! working with them from hatclings pays off! I do my best to promote them in the best light i can.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/382148_499639390075675_967880569_n.jpg

[millertime89]

We know DC and glad you shaved since you continue showing us pictures.

You're just too white lol

lol, its the Irish. I try and keep it trimmed neatly but I was on the road for about a week straight and let it get away.

[Aaron_S]

I know it's a photo op and glad that's all it is.

In that situation, he has no real control over that animal. It's large and powerful and could do what it wants with him at it's own will.

Awesome rack set up though.

[millertime89]

It's Bob Clark's place, read the quote I just added.

[millertime89]

This is Travis Kubes when I went up to his place in June. I'll upload the pics from my trip last weekend tonight.
http://www.1320video.com/img/album385/MG_0273_2.sized.jpg

http://www.1320video.com/img/album385/MG_0274_2.sized.jpg

[Gungirl]

I don't care who is doing it.. Placing a large snake around your "shoulders" is stupid. 99% of those pictures the snake is clearly on their necks just not all the way around.

[Aaron_S]

I believe the second picture of Travis is an appropriate way to handle such a large snake. You can clearly see how in control he is of that situation at that time. It's a photo op but for anyone reading this, more handlers is never a bad thing.

[lady_bug87]

I don't care who is doing it.. Placing a large snake around your "shoulders" is stupid. 99% of those pictures the snake is clearly on their necks just not all the way around.

See? both are the same to me and that's why I wanted a definition. Kyle with all due respect to you, I was not satisfied with the definition you provided. I was looking for a list of reasons why they're different, not a semantic exercise with pictures that I could not distinguish between one or the other.

It is my belief that regardless if a dozen people are watching one person with a snake it's going to take longer for them to get to you then it will for that snake to twitch and for you to pass out.

3 minutes is all it takes for damage to occur in the brain once oxygen flow stops I would wager it would take them longer then that to get the snake off of your neck. I don't want to turn this into another snake around the neck thread and Wayne or Alessia you may move this post if you want to.

[lady_bug87]

I believe the second picture of Travis is an appropriate way to handle such a large snake. You can clearly see how in control he is of that situation at that time. It's a photo op but for anyone reading this, more handlers is never a bad thing.

Oh that makes more sense thanks

[Aaron_S]

Oh that makes more sense thanks

You're welcome.

I'm sure glad a ball python guy had to explain the differences of something the giant keepers should know. ;)

[millertime89]

See? both are the same to me and that's why I wanted a definition. Kyle with all due respect to you, I was not satisfied with the definition you provided. I was looking for a list of reasons why they're different, not a semantic exercise with pictures that I could not distinguish between one or the other.

Sorry, I should have been clearer then. No disrespect taken.

It is my belief that regardless if a dozen people are watching one person with a snake it's going to take longer for them to get to you then it will for that snake to twitch and for you to pass out.

3 minutes is all it takes for damage to occur in the brain once oxygen flow stops I would wager it would take them longer then that to get the snake off of your neck.

I'm well aware of the risks, as are everyone in these pictures holding these animals. The occurance of that though is exceedingly rare, I have never heard a first hand account of it happening. That's not to say we should be taking risks, but the risk is being largely blown out of proportion here.

I don't want to turn this into another snake around the neck thread and Wayne or Alessia you may move this post if you want to.

That's why I asked. We already have one of these threads, and I have stayed out of it because I feel its being blown out of proportion. I shared these pictures to show an exceptional animal that displays an exception to the typical size of Jampea locality retics.

[lady_bug87]

I had a feeling this would turn into the something. The snakes are exceptional specimens there is no doubt about it

Personally I agree with Aaron that the second picture of Travis (if that's his name) would make more sense as a correct way to do it. Though it's rare it's not impossible, these are wild animals capable of anything and I think we as keepers forget that.

[millertime89]

You're welcome.

I'm sure glad a ball python guy had to explain the differences of something the giant keepers should know. ;)

Sorry, I actually had to do some work at work for once. Seriously.
That said, the first picture demonstrates that just because you know the proper way to handle snakes it doesn't always mean they're going to cooperate.

[lady_bug87]

Sorry, I actually had to do some work at work for once. Seriously.
That said, the first picture demonstrates that just because you know the proper way to handle snakes it doesn't always mean they're going to cooperate.

I think the argument is that though there is more of a margin of error with giants than lets say hots, the handler *should* be able to stay in control and be able to handle the animal properly regardless of the animal's cooperation since the consequences of doing so can include serious injury though in most cases unlethal.

If a hot keeper said "this is how you do it but sometimes the snake doesn't cooperate so I do it without the hook/ gloves/ etc," we would be inclined to call that person irresponsible.

I feel that giant keepers should be held in the same regard, that the cooperation of the animahe's hold not be the determining factor for safe handling practices. Having multiple people in the room is (in my opinion) not a good enough reason to NOT hold the animal the way Travis is in the second picture.

I also noticed you only have ONE picture of a snake being held in this fashion which leads me to believe it is not the way snakes of this size are predominantly held, or at least photographed being held.

[Aaron_S]

I think the argument is that though there is more of a margin of error with giants than lets say hots, the handler *should* be able to stay in control and be able to handle the animal properly regardless of the animal's cooperation since the consequences of doing so can include serious injury though in most cases unlethal.

If a hot keeper said "this is how you do it but sometimes the snake doesn't cooperate so I do it without the hook/ gloves/ etc," we would be inclined to call that person irresponsible.

I feel that giant keepers should be held in the same regard, that the cooperation of the animahe's hold not be the determining factor for safe handling practices. Having multiple people in the room is (in my opinion) not a good enough reason to NOT hold the animal the way Travis is in the second picture.

I also noticed you only have ONE picture of a snake being held in this fashion which leads me to believe it is not the way snakes of this size are predominantly held, or at least photographed being held.

Lori makes exceptionally good points here.

I don't think things are blown too far out or proportion as there are two causes of death in relation to large boids. There may be outside factors in them but it still stands that deaths of humans have occured and that it can occur again.

I don't believe there would be a ban in place if everything was as hunky-dory as you're trying to lead us to believe DC.

[millertime89]

I think the argument is that though there is more of a margin of error with giants than lets say hots, the handler *should* be able to stay in control and be able to handle the animal properly regardless of the animal's cooperation since the consequences of doing so can include serious injury though in most cases unlethal.

If a hot keeper said "this is how you do it but sometimes the snake doesn't cooperate so I do it without the hook/ gloves/ etc," we would be inclined to call that person irresponsible.

The way you *should* handle hots is different from the way you *should* handle giants. Apples to oranges. On one hand, you've got an animal, typically smaller or more slender bodied that can be controlled with a hook while maintaining control of the tail to keep the dangerous end as far from you as possible. I want to see the same control techniques used on the big burms and retics, and I'm not talking the 8-10ft snakes, I want to see someone hook and tail a 16 footer.

I feel that giant keepers should be held in the same regard, that the cooperation of the animahe's hold not be the determining factor for safe handling practices. Having multiple people in the room is (in my opinion) not a good enough reason to NOT hold the animal the way Travis is in the second picture.

I also noticed you only have ONE picture of a snake being held in this fashion which leads me to believe it is not the way snakes of this size are predominantly held, or at least photographed being held.

You mean with them draped over shoulders? That's because its the best way to get the most animal in the photo and still being able to comfortable support their weight.

Lori makes exceptionally good points here.

I don't think things are blown too far out or proportion as there are two causes of death in relation to large boids. There may be outside factors in them but it still stands that deaths of humans have occured and that it can occur again.

I don't believe there would be a ban in place if everything was as hunky-dory as you're trying to lead us to believe DC.

I'm going to disagree about the legislation, the ban talks are ideologically founded not in a safety concern, but on a "these animals should stay in the wild" grounds and "they'll escape and destroy the environment" fears. The safety issue just happens to be something that they can use because it seems "logical".

Joe is the one wearing the DC shirt rocking the 'stache, I'm the one above wearing the USARK shirt. Just realized what you were talking about.

[Lankyrob]

I think the argument is that though there is more of a margin of error with giants than lets say hots, the handler *should* be able to stay in control and be able to handle the animal properly regardless of the animal's cooperation since the consequences of doing so can include serious injury though in most cases unlethal.

If a hot keeper said "this is how you do it but sometimes the snake doesn't cooperate so I do it without the hook/ gloves/ etc," we would be inclined to call that person irresponsible.

I feel that giant keepers should be held in the same regard, that the cooperation of the animahe's hold not be the determining factor for safe handling practices. Having multiple people in the room is (in my opinion) not a good enough reason to NOT hold the animal the way Travis is in the second picture.

I also noticed you only have ONE picture of a snake being held in this fashion which leads me to believe it is not the way snakes of this size are predominantly held, or at least photographed being held.

This is one of the best posts i have read for a while :)

[JK Reptiles]

Hey everyone, I am the guy in the hat holding the big Jampea around my neck, you guys know, the one that isnt that smart about it. A little bit of info guys, I have been dealing with retics for the last 13 years and have never even had an incident where an animal came close to choking me. Its all in how you direct there heads and body, and as long as their tail is anchored, they are not going to choke a person out.

Kyle, good luck getting facial hair like mine man. If I could you give you some of mine, I would, mine grows out of control!

[moshirimon]

i love coming back to this thread. that snake is just so impressive

[CMRetics]

I don't care who is doing it.. Placing a large snake around your "shoulders" is stupid. 99% of those pictures the snake is clearly on their necks just not all the way around.
You clearly have 0 experience with these animals. Why are you posting in this thread?

See? both are the same to me and that's why I wanted a definition. Kyle with all due respect to you, I was not satisfied with the definition you provided. I was looking for a list of reasons why they're different, not a semantic exercise with pictures that I could not distinguish between one or the other.

It is my belief that regardless if a dozen people are watching one person with a snake it's going to take longer for them to get to you then it will for that snake to twitch and for you to pass out.

3 minutes is all it takes for damage to occur in the brain once oxygen flow stops I would wager it would take them longer then that to get the snake off of your neck. I don't want to turn this into another snake around the neck thread and Wayne or Alessia you may move this post if you want to.

Retics will go where they want, you can guide them. If they wanted to hurt you, no hook and "tailing" will prevent that. I use my shoulders and back to support and lift all of my heavy retics, I've never once felt in danger.

I love how some of you are sitting here calling industry leaders and people with 10+ years experience with RETICS stupid for how they handle their snakes. All the while you don't have a fraction of the knowledge or experience they have with these animals. I feel that if you have no education or experience on this subject- you should probably not speak on it.

[lady_bug87]

The way you *should* handle hots is different from the way you *should* handle giants. Apples to oranges. On one hand, you've got an animal, typically smaller or more slender bodied that can be controlled with a hook while maintaining control of the tail to keep the dangerous end as far from you as possible. I want to see the same control techniques used on the big burms and retics, and I'm not talking the 8-10ft snakes, I want to see someone hook and tail a 16 footer.

I would have to humbly disagree. Though you're right it takes a much different skill set to handle each I think its much more like comparing granny smith to red delicious. Both can hurt you, both could send you to the hospital and both deserve respect. The difference is one could kill you easier than the other.

Other than that I think you misunderstood what I meant, I was not comparing the skill level it takes to work with each I was comparing the amount of attention needed to work successfully with each which I believe should be the same no matter if its an 17ft retic or a 4ft pit viper.


Hey everyone, I am the guy in the hat holding the big Jampea around my neck, you guys know, the one that isnt that smart about it. A little bit of info guys, I have been dealing with retics for the last 13 years and have never even had an incident where an animal came close to choking me. Its all in how you direct there heads and body, and as long as their tail is anchored, they are not going to choke a person out.

Kyle, good luck getting facial hair like mine man. If I could you give you some of mine, I would, mine grows out of control!

I have a lot of respect for someone who keeps these impressive animals. This (in my mind) is a friendly debate that I enjoy having because I find the answers on both sides extremely interesting. I don't necessarily disagree with certified and trained owners like yourself working with these animals. I do however have a compulsive need to question. I asked Kyle the difference in holding positions and received an answer which was in my mind unacceptable.

I asked for clarification and he showed me the second picture of Travis and this had me thinking: if this is how its supposed to be done then why don't I see it more often? He explained his reasoning but I am frustratingly tenacious and like I said I find it interesting.

I would love to talk with you about working with giants and if you find this agreeable please feel free to PM me so we don't muddy-up this thread.

[millertime89]

I would have to humbly disagree. Though you're right it takes a much different skill set to handle each I think its much more like comparing granny smith to red delicious. Both can hurt you, both could send you to the hospital and both deserve respect. The difference is one could kill you easier than the other.

Other than that I think you misunderstood what I meant, I was not comparing the skill level it takes to work with each I was comparing the amount of attention needed to work successfully with each which I believe should be the same no matter if its an 17ft retic or a 4ft pit viper.

Nobody is claiming that you shouldn't pay attention while holding and working with these animals, not by a long shot. They are to be respected at all times, like anything potentially dangerous.

I have a lot of respect for someone who keeps these impressive animals. This (in my mind) is a friendly debate that I enjoy having because I find the answers on both sides extremely interesting. I don't necessarily disagree with certified and trained owners like yourself working with these animals. I do however have a compulsive need to question. I asked Kyle the difference in holding positions and received an answer which was in my mind unacceptable.

I asked for clarification and he showed me the second picture of Travis and this had me thinking: if this is how its supposed to be done then why don't I see it more often? He explained his reasoning but I am frustratingly tenacious and like I said I find it interesting.

Like I said, I wish this thread would be split off because it has taken a direction that was unintended. I'm just sharing pictures now to demonstrate that yes, this is how many people with years of experience working with these animals hold them when taking photos while holding them.

Thanks for popping in Joe.

Here's another picture, big African Rock that used to belong to a friend of mine. This I feel is unsafe, but again, knowing the snake and having a 2nd or 3rd person nearby to assist is crucial.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/v/708425_538877176124136_564211819_o.jpg?oh=9e558a93 762000ceb61eff908486ba24&oe=50CB29C6&__gda__=1355555251_bcdb52806f6ca24fbf6b82589fa2b38 4

[KORBIN5895]

So after looking at what all has been said here this is what I gather. People feel that since they have years of experience they can replace common sense with half baked practices. This thought is similar to someone saying that since they have ridden a motorcycle for years that they are safe driving at 120 MPH without a helmet. Both are on par in the idiocy department.

[Lankyrob]

So after looking at what all has been said here this is what I gather. People feel that since they have years of experience they can replace common sense with half baked practices. This thought is similar to someone saying that since they have ridden a motorcycle for years that they are safe driving at 120 MPH without a helmet. Both are on par in the idiocy department.

And to add to this i will repeat my previous comment

"if an experienced keeper lets a snake around their neck and is killed it is their own fault as they should know better. If an inexperienced keeper copies the practices shown where snakes are around the neck and dies then it is the hobbies fault for not warning them of the dangers"

I am not going to tell some experienced keeper not to do something BUT the pictures should not be posted online where new keepers will learn from them. This goes for freehandling hots as well as putting snakes of ANY size around the neck area.

[Gungirl]

You clearly have 0 experience with these animals. Why are you posting in this thread?




I have handled a few very large snakes and I am posting in this thread because I am Allowed to have my own opinion. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean I shouldn't post.

I stick to my original post.. Placing a large snake around your shoulder/neck area is a stupid move. No matter what you think or say it is my OPINION and I am allowed to voice it.

[infernalis]

I am posting in this thread because I am Allowed to have my own opinion. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean I shouldn't post..


^^^^this^^^^

Every member of this forum is allowed a voice, and ownership of a particular species is not a prerequisite.

We/you/they/them do not have to agree with said opinions, however that does not forbid anyone from stating what's on their mind.

[Aaron_S]

...Retics will go where they want, you can guide them. If they wanted to hurt you, no hook and "tailing" will prevent that. I use my shoulders and back to support and lift all of my heavy retics, I've never once felt in danger.

I love how some of you are sitting here calling industry leaders and people with 10+ years experience with RETICS stupid for how they handle their snakes. All the while you don't have a fraction of the knowledge or experience they have with these animals. I feel that if you have no education or experience on this subject- you should probably not speak on it.

Look at the pot calling the kettle black. :rolleyes:

You come here saying people without experience and don't know these keepers personally shouldn't express their opinion. Yet, isn't you now expressing your opinion about keepers you don't personally know?

For the record I tried to stay out of this thread and just couldn't. As Lady_Bug said, I have a need to question and enjoy a friendly debate. The beauty part about that is that I DO have experience with these animals. It was years ago before all the mutations and just as super dwarfs were entering the market and Jamps were just getting more known. I've been around them and I fully understand how a large animal can't be told where to go.

As I've already stated it's about controlling the situation. I've noted where in this thread the only picture that has someone doing this. It's not about how many years or whatever. It's about the moment the snake has a bad one and then quickly escalates from there.

As pointed out, not nearly enough people take proper photos. There isn't a REASON to support a large snake alone on your shoulders/back (bad for your future health). Use more than a single person. Even for a photo op. My issue with this is that giants can be fatally dangerous in captivity (has happened) and why should you be less scrutinized than the venomous keeper who has taken a photo of themselves freehandling?

You're the one's with your hobby in jeopardy. You're the one's who want the rest of us behind you to support you. You're the one's who then decide to argue with us. Literally, know when to fight your battles, this isn't one of them. You can't have everything. Use proper handling techniques for pictures and the like and you'll have more support.

Always the same kind of guys who own these giants...sheesh...


Also Kyle, I have given you a nickname, DC. That is why I keep saying DC.

[lady_bug87]

You clearly have 0 experience with these animals. Why are you posting in this thread?



Retics will go where they want, you can guide them. If they wanted to hurt you, no hook and "tailing" will prevent that. I use my shoulders and back to support and lift all of my heavy retics, I've never once felt in danger.

I love how some of you are sitting here calling industry leaders and people with 10+ years experience with RETICS stupid for how they handle their snakes. All the while you don't have a fraction of the knowledge or experience they have with these animals. I feel that if you have no education or experience on this subject- you should probably not speak on it.

I have never once in this thread called anyone stupid. It's your neck, your bussiness but don't make excuses. If you can't control the beast and make it go where YOU want it to at all times, then maybe that is a good indication that these should NOT be in private collection. These keepers may have 10+years of experience but that doesn't stop these animals from being available to anyone with a PayPal account.

I bet i could find one to buy in under 15minutes and I will even bet that the person selling it doesn't give a rats gonad that I have no idea what to do with it. THAT is the problem with this hobby. It is so easy to buy a snake even one that can kill you like a hot or a giant.

You sound so arrogant. The only reason you know my experience level is because I told you and I haven't told you all of it, and yet you can make an assumption. You dont know Kat at all or her experience and you assumed she has no experience.

I have respect for people who keep giants and hots but I find your arrogance pathetic. You want people to understand giants? Try not acting like you're god's gift to this hobby because I can assure you, it's giant keepers that are the main focus of all this negative attention.

I guess with guys like you it's like 'hey look at me I have a snake that can eat your dog and you suck because you don't

[millertime89]

Also Kyle, I have given you a nickname, DC. That is why I keep saying DC.

Crap... whatever floats your boat I guess.

[KORBIN5895]

Look at the pot calling the kettle black. :rolleyes:

You come here saying people without experience and don't know these keepers personally shouldn't express their opinion. Yet, isn't you now expressing your opinion about keepers you don't personally know?

For the record I tried to stay out of this thread and just couldn't. As Lady_Bug said, I have a need to question and enjoy a friendly debate. The beauty part about that is that I DO have experience with these animals. It was years ago before all the mutations and just as super dwarfs were entering the market and Jamps were just getting more known. I've been around them and I fully understand how a large animal can't be told where to go.

As I've already stated it's about controlling the situation. I've noted where in this thread the only picture that has someone doing this. It's not about how many years or whatever. It's about the moment the snake has a bad one and then quickly escalates from there.

As pointed out, not nearly enough people take proper photos. There isn't a REASON to support a large snake alone on your shoulders/back (bad for your future health). Use more than a single person. Even for a photo op. My issue with this is that giants can be fatally dangerous in captivity (has happened) and why should you be less scrutinized than the venomous keeper who has taken a photo of themselves freehandling?

You're the one's with your hobby in jeopardy. You're the one's who want the rest of us behind you to support you. You're the one's who then decide to argue with us. Literally, know when to fight your battles, this isn't one of them. You can't have everything. Use proper handling techniques for pictures and the like and you'll have more support.

Always the same kind of guys who own these giants...sheesh...


Also Kyle, I have given you a nickname, DC. That is why I keep saying DC.

Well said grasshopper.

Why are you calling Kyle DC?

I have never once in this thread called anyone stupid. It's your neck, your bussiness but don't make excuses. If you can't control the beast and make it go where YOU want it to at all times, then maybe that is a good indication that these should NOT be in private collection. These keepers may have 10+years of experience but that doesn't stop these animals from being available to anyone with a PayPal account.

I bet i could find one to buy in under 15minutes and I will even bet that the person selling it doesn't give a rats gonad that I have no idea what to do with it. THAT is the problem with this hobby. It is so easy to buy a snake even one that can kill you like a hot or a giant.

You sound so arrogant. The only reason you know my experience level is because I told you and I haven't told you all of it, and yet you can make an assumption. You dont know Kat at all or her experience and you assumed she has no experience.

I have respect for people who keep giants and hots but I find your arrogance pathetic. You want people to understand giants? Try not acting like you're god's gift to this hobby because I can assure you, it's giant keepers that are the main focus of all this negative attention.

I guess with guys like you it's like 'hey look at me I have a snake that can eat your dog and you suck because you don't

Careful this one bites.......

[Aaron_S]

....Why are you calling Kyle DC?...

It's because I gave him the name "Douche Canoe" in another thread. I shortened it so it didn't get edited.

[millertime89]

It's because I gave him the name "Douche Canoe" in another thread. I shortened it so it didn't get edited.

must've missed that one, I just skim

[CMRetics]

It's not a matter of you guys having opinions. It's a matter of having an opinion based on ignorance.

I know how much Wayne hates ignorance based on varanids. He can go on a forum and see 10 people talking about their bosc in a fish tank, and tell them how right they are and how it's their opinion. Fact is, those people are keeping it wrong, those people have probably never kept a bosc monitor over a year. They are ignorant.

The same is true of the above. Do you guys know these animals? Have you worked with them and interacted with them? If not- why act like you know anything about these animals or their actions? Yes anyone can openly buy a retic, but a lot of us make sure to educate the new owners- information is readily available that kids/new/inexperienced people should not put a snake around or near their neck.

I've kept retics for awhile now, I feel extremely comfortable picking up any of mine and using my shoulders/legs to lift, I doubt any of you are strong enough to just raw pick up my biggest female, does she ever "squeeze" sure, I guide her, I use my shoulders to support and not the neck, and I've never ONCE felt in danger handling a retic, because I've taken the time to understand them..

Kyle, Myself, Travis, Jake, we all have experience with these animals, and agree that a n00b should not do some of this stuff, but leave the rest of us alone and stop trying to call us stupid or downplay us, we know what we are doing, and are confident in our own safety.

[Aaron_S]

It's not a matter of you guys having opinions. It's a matter of having an opinion based on ignorance.

I know how much Wayne hates ignorance based on varanids. He can go on a forum and see 10 people talking about their bosc in a fish tank, and tell them how right they are and how it's their opinion. Fact is, those people are keeping it wrong, those people have probably never kept a bosc monitor over a year. They are ignorant.

The same is true of the above. Do you guys know these animals? Have you worked with them and interacted with them? If not- why act like you know anything about these animals or their actions? Yes anyone can openly buy a retic, but a lot of us make sure to educate the new owners- information is readily available that kids/new/inexperienced people should not put a snake around or near their neck.

I've kept retics for awhile now, I feel extremely comfortable picking up any of mine and using my shoulders/legs to lift, I doubt any of you are strong enough to just raw pick up my biggest female, does she ever "squeeze" sure, I guide her, I use my shoulders to support and not the neck, and I've never ONCE felt in danger handling a retic, because I've taken the time to understand them..

Kyle, Myself, Travis, Jake, we all have experience with these animals, and agree that a n00b should not do some of this stuff, but leave the rest of us alone and stop trying to call us stupid or downplay us, we know what we are doing, and are confident in our own safety.

Excuse me? You have NO clue about me or my experience. I have plenty and I can "raw" pick up your female. I'm sure. You only need muscle.

Every venomous keeper says that same thing about their animals. They "know" them. Experience isn't a reason to be exempt from protocol.

[Aaron_S]

It's not a matter of you guys having opinions. It's a matter of having an opinion based on ignorance.

I know how much Wayne hates ignorance based on varanids. He can go on a forum and see 10 people talking about their bosc in a fish tank, and tell them how right they are and how it's their opinion. Fact is, those people are keeping it wrong, those people have probably never kept a bosc monitor over a year. They are ignorant.

The same is true of the above. Do you guys know these animals? Have you worked with them and interacted with them? If not- why act like you know anything about these animals or their actions? Yes anyone can openly buy a retic, but a lot of us make sure to educate the new owners- information is readily available that kids/new/inexperienced people should not put a snake around or near their neck.

I've kept retics for awhile now, I feel extremely comfortable picking up any of mine and using my shoulders/legs to lift, I doubt any of you are strong enough to just raw pick up my biggest female, does she ever "squeeze" sure, I guide her, I use my shoulders to support and not the neck, and I've never ONCE felt in danger handling a retic, because I've taken the time to understand them..

Kyle, Myself, Travis, Jake, we all have experience with these animals, and agree that a n00b should not do some of this stuff, but leave the rest of us alone and stop trying to call us stupid or downplay us, we know what we are doing, and are confident in our own safety.

BY THE WAY...I figured I'd show you the post again. Do not tell someone we can't express our opinions. Especially mine, which are well grounded in experience.

^^^^this^^^^

Every member of this forum is allowed a voice, and ownership of a particular species is not a prerequisite.

We/you/they/them do not have to agree with said opinions, however that does not forbid anyone from stating what's on their mind.

[lady_bug87]

It's not a matter of you guys having opinions. It's a matter of having an opinion based on ignorance.

I know how much Wayne hates ignorance based on varanids. He can go on a forum and see 10 people talking about their bosc in a fish tank, and tell them how right they are and how it's their opinion. Fact is, those people are keeping it wrong, those people have probably never kept a bosc monitor over a year. They are ignorant.

The same is true of the above. Do you guys know these animals? Have you worked with them and interacted with them? If not- why act like you know anything about these animals or their actions? Yes anyone can openly buy a retic, but a lot of us make sure to educate the new owners- information is readily available that kids/new/inexperienced people should not put a snake around or near their neck.

I've kept retics for awhile now, I feel extremely comfortable picking up any of mine and using my shoulders/legs to lift, I doubt any of you are strong enough to just raw pick up my biggest female, does she ever "squeeze" sure, I guide her, I use my shoulders to support and not the neck, and I've never ONCE felt in danger handling a retic, because I've taken the time to understand them..

Kyle, Myself, Travis, Jake, we all have experience with these animals, and agree that a n00b should not do some of this stuff, but leave the rest of us alone and stop trying to call us stupid or downplay us, we know what we are doing, and are confident in our own safety.

Ooooo look at the cool kids in school.

Your arrogance tells me one of these is true
1) you own these things because you're 'macho'
2) you have to prove you're macho to compensate
3) you're too arrogant to realize what you're doing is idiotic.

[KORBIN5895]

Ooooo look at the cool kids in school.

Your arrogance tells me one of these is true
1) you own these things because you're 'macho'
2) you have to prove you're macho to compensate
3) you're too arrogant to realize what you're doing is idiotic.

Well by looking at them I am pretty sure they are compensating.

[CMRetics]

Ooooo look at the cool kids in school.

Your arrogance tells me one of these is true
1) you own these things because you're 'macho'
2) you have to prove you're macho to compensate
3) you're too arrogant to realize what you're doing is idiotic.

1) I never said I was macho. I can't raw dead lift my biggest snake with only my back, that's why I use my shoulders and legs, this is also true of smart lifting in any form, not just with snakes.
2). I don't care if you think I'm macho, I'm 6'0 140 lbs. I'm small.
3) You're too ignorant to realize you're speaking out of your rear, funny how 95% of retic keepers will agree with me, but some nobody with a ball python and a corn snake (just a guess) is smarter than all the experienced keeperswho have worked with these animals for years.

I'm sure you'd get the same reaction from Wayne if you told him he was idiotic for owning a large varanid and feeding it a diet of insects, it clearly needs big macs and french fries!!!!

[Aaron_S]

1) I never said I was macho. I can't raw dead lift my biggest snake with only my back, that's why I use my shoulders and legs, this is also true of smart lifting in any form, not just with snakes.
2). I don't care if you think I'm macho, I'm 6'0 140 lbs. I'm small.
3) You're too ignorant to realize you're speaking out of your rear, funny how 95% of retic keepers will agree with me, but some nobody with a ball python and a corn snake (just a guess) is smarter than all the experienced keeperswho have worked with these animals for years.

I'm sure you'd get the same reaction from Wayne if you told him he was idiotic for owning a large varanid and feeding it a diet of insects, it clearly needs big macs and french fries!!!!

I'm not dumb enough to use the worst analogy possible.

What savannah monitors eat is FACT. Wayne doesn't simply say "We are 'experienced' we know".

All I hear from the 95% of keepers is the same dribble. "We're better than you. We know what we're doing".

Yet, the truth is. Through your own words it's this..."We know what to do but because no one can 'control' a retic then that's just how it is."

Do you even listen to yourself? IF YOU CAN'T control the situation YOU SHOULDN'T own the animal.

The funny part is, that you say all retic keepers (minus the 5% that are smart) would agree with you because you're all the same person. Some guy who thinks he's cool and "above" the stereotype of the "hillbilly" large constrictor keeper, yet can't ever properly discuss how to maintain a secure process with a giant snake.

Bring some facts and I'll discuss with you further. Do you deny that two people have died from large constrictors in captivity?

[KORBIN5895]

I keep hear the same things here. You guys have all this experience so you do stupid stuff. You have the ability to do it right but you can't because retics can't be controlled. Which means that no matter what experience you have you can't do it properly. That means you aren't in control . When you aren't in control mistakes happen. So basically all of your experience is going to lead to a tragedy because you aren't in control of a wild animal.

Also congratulations on your ability to dead lift your snake! I am so happy that you are able to pick up your pet. That makes you so special you need a cookie! ********

[CMRetics]

I'm not dumb enough to use the worst analogy possible.

What savannah monitors eat is FACT. Wayne doesn't simply say "We are 'experienced' we know".

All I hear from the 95% of keepers is the same dribble. "We're better than you. We know what we're doing".

Yet, the truth is. Through your own words it's this..."We know what to do but because no one can 'control' a retic then that's just how it is."

Do you even listen to yourself? IF YOU CAN'T control the situation YOU SHOULDN'T own the animal.

The funny part is, that you say all retic keepers (minus the 5% that are smart) would agree with you because you're all the same person. Some guy who thinks he's cool and "above" the stereotype of the "hillbilly" large constrictor keeper, yet can't ever properly discuss how to maintain a secure process with a giant snake.

Bring some facts and I'll discuss with you further. Do you deny that two people have died from large constrictors in captivity?
I'm fairly certain if you want to look at statistics, more people are killed by captive big cats, dogs, horses than big snakes. I'm willing to bet more people are killed by pet spiders and hots as well.

Are there exceptions to the rule SURE, some keepers are so stupid that they don't properly condition the snake- for instance every time I work with my animals I tap them and rub their neck with a hook, paper towel roll, etc to kill feeding response. This lets them know I'm taking them out.

Now I'd be willing to bet the people killed by their big snakes had it happen from feeding responses. I don't think I've ever heard of a case where someone died from a big constrictor from suffocation at the neck ESPECIALLY when other people are present, which is included in all the pictures presented, 2+ able bodied experienced people. I'm not a hill-billy. I enjoy these big snakes, can I control them and what they do all the time? Nope, can a lot of people control a big dog if it really decides it wants to do something? Nope. Can you control a horse if it decides to be wild- nope.

Clearly that means we should all be restricted to owning the animals YOU see as safe. Has nothing to do with ego, it has to do with knowing our animals and understanding they aren't menaces who want to kill people.

As for the bosc monitor comment- actually, in the case of most monitors (other than boscs, which we have real data on what they eat) we have no real FACTS. I've been working with varanids for many years, and that still isn't a "fact" but people think they know what is best for them don't they?

I keep hear the same things here. You guys have all this experience so you do stupid stuff. You have the ability to do it right but you can't because retics can't be controlled. Which means that no matter what experience you have you can't do it properly. That means you aren't in control . When you aren't in control mistakes happen. So basically all of your experience is going to lead to a tragedy because you aren't in control of a wild animal.

Also congratulations on your ability to dead lift your snake! I am so happy that you are able to pick up your pet. That makes you so special you need a cookie! ********
I said I can't dead lift my snake, I openly said I can't pick her straight up. Learn to read before you bother attacking me.

Now then, mistakes can happen with any animal including your dog. You can't always control your dog, which means you aren't in control. It's going to end up in tragedy becuase you aren't in control of an animal (who still can at times, act on instinct).

The road goes 2 ways. People like you, and the image of retics as "horrible monsters" who can "accidentally kill you" at any moment are part of what is helping kill our passion. Give yourself a pat on the back for your ignorance.

Reputable breeders around the world who have done more for this industry and the reptile hobby as a whole than any of you can ever even fathom, but they are all stupid idiots.

[infernalis]

can we please stop including me in a conversation that I have intentionally stayed clear of. Thanks.....

[KORBIN5895]

It's not a matter of you guys having opinions. It's a matter of having an opinion based on ignorance.

I know how much Wayne hates ignorance based on varanids. He can go on a forum and see 10 people talking about their bosc in a fish tank, and tell them how right they are and how it's their opinion. Fact is, those people are keeping it wrong, those people have probably never kept a bosc monitor over a year. They are ignorant.

The same is true of the above. Do you guys know these animals? Have you worked with them and interacted with them? If not- why act like you know anything about these animals or their actions? Yes anyone can openly buy a retic, but a lot of us make sure to educate the new owners- information is readily available that kids/new/inexperienced people should not put a snake around or near their neck.

I've kept retics for awhile now, I feel extremely comfortable picking up any of mine and using my shoulders/legs to lift, I doubt any of you are strong enough to just raw pick up my biggest female, does she ever "squeeze" sure, I guide her, I use my shoulders to support and not the neck, and I've never ONCE felt in danger handling a retic, because I've taken the time to understand them..

Kyle, Myself, Travis, Jake, we all have experience with these animals, and agree that a n00b should not do some of this stuff, but leave the rest of us alone and stop trying to call us stupid or downplay us, we know what we are doing, and are confident in our own safety.

I'm fairly certain if you want to look at statistics, more people are killed by captive big cats, dogs, horses than big snakes. I'm willing to bet more people are killed by pet spiders and hots as well.

Are there exceptions to the rule SURE, some keepers are so stupid that they don't properly condition the snake- for instance every time I work with my animals I tap them and rub their neck with a hook, paper towel roll, etc to kill feeding response. This lets them know I'm taking them out.

Now I'd be willing to bet the people killed by their big snakes had it happen from feeding responses. I don't think I've ever heard of a case where someone died from a big constrictor from suffocation at the neck ESPECIALLY when other people are present, which is included in all the pictures presented, 2+ able bodied experienced people. I'm not a hill-billy. I enjoy these big snakes, can I control them and what they do all the time? Nope, can a lot of people control a big dog if it really decides it wants to do something? Nope. Can you control a horse if it decides to be wild- nope.

Clearly that means we should all be restricted to owning the animals YOU see as safe. Has nothing to do with ego, it has to do with knowing our animals and understanding they aren't menaces who want to kill people.

As for the bosc monitor comment- actually, in the case of most monitors (other than boscs, which we have real data on what they eat) we have no real FACTS. I've been working with varanids for many years, and that still isn't a "fact" but people think they know what is best for them don't they?


I said I can't dead lift my snake, I openly said I can't pick her straight up. Learn to read before you bother attacking me.

Now then, mistakes can happen with any animal including your dog. You can't always control your dog, which means you aren't in control. It's going to end up in tragedy becuase you aren't in control of an animal (who still can at times, act on instinct).

The road goes 2 ways. People like you, and the image of retics as "horrible monsters" who can "accidentally kill you" at any moment are part of what is helping kill our passion. Give yourself a pat on the back for your ignorance.

Reputable breeders around the world who have done more for this industry and the reptile hobby as a whole than any of you can ever even fathom, but they are all stupid idiots.

Welcome back ********!

First off the bold is what I was referencing. I wasn't referring to your biggest female. I will openly admit that I have a hard time focusing and honestly what you posted was killing brain cells I can't afford to lose so I skimmed the stupid parts.... speaking of which maybe you should clarify raw dead lifting.

I actually always had control of my dog besides I highly doubt a shiz tsu could do much damage anyway.

Also I am seriously considering getting a retic from Bob Clark . So I guess while we are on the subject of ignorance I guess you are batting 0/2.

Here is a wise saying for you. If passion drives you let reason hold the reigns. Can you comprehend that or should I simplify it for you?

I will also say congratulations to all these reputable ( who ever the hell they are). Hopefully they are able to keep their reputation as some of the big names are starting to fail. I don't care if Christ himself had a 17ft jampea around his neck because if it was like picture two and three in the op then I would call him a stupid idiot also.

can we please stop including me in a conversation that I have intentionally stayed clear of. Thanks.....

Tell that to the noob. He seems to think dropping your name gives him street cred here or something.

[CMRetics]

LOL, You're looking at "getting a retic" from Bob Clark, that doesn't mean that you know anything about retics champ. The picture of Shane holding that big sunfire IS AT BOB'S FACILITY. I'm sure there are similar pictures of Bob working with big retics out there.

If my snake wanted to hurt me, it would, regardless of it was around my neck or not.

No your dog won't hurt you, a shitzu is just an overgrown rat in my opinion, and isn't even a real dog, just an annoying yappy mop with legs. I'm speaking on real dogs, why do you think that police dogs are so effective, because they are going to over-power your average person, just like my retic COULD.

Your ignorance is killing my brain cells. It's pretty funny that some no name ball python owners feel like they have a say in the retic world LOL

[KORBIN5895]

LOL, You're looking at "getting a retic" from Bob Clark, that doesn't mean that you know anything about retics champ. The picture of Shane holding that big sunfire IS AT BOB'S FACILITY. I'm sure there are similar pictures of Bob working with big retics out there.

If my snake wanted to hurt me, it would, regardless of it was around my neck or not.

No your dog won't hurt you, a shitzu is just an overgrown rat in my opinion, and isn't even a real dog, just an annoying yappy mop with legs. I'm speaking on real dogs, why do you think that police dogs are so effective, because they are going to over-power your average person, just like my retic COULD.

Your ignorance is killing my brain cells. It's pretty funny that some no name ball python owners feel like they have a say in the retic world LOL

Lol. So explain this to me, ********. If I thought retics were evil monsters that would randomly kill me why would I even consider owning one?

As for Bob Clark don't know him from Adam but I have seen him posing like an idiot with a big snake wrapped around him while he was sitting. So yeah great point on where you were when the pics were taken.

Also how did you know I owned ball pythons!?!?!?!

Oh wait I don't..... You're just talking about stuff you don't know about again. Why don't you run along and go play with yourself or something?

[CMRetics]

Lol. So explain this to me, ********. If I thought retics were evil monsters that would randomly kill me why would I even consider owning one?

As for Bob Clark don't know him from Adam but I have seen him posing like an idiot with a big snake wrapped around him while he was sitting. So yeah great point on where you were when the pics were taken.

Also how did you know I owned ball pythons!?!?!?!

Oh wait I don't..... You're just talking about stuff you don't know about again. Why don't you run along and go play with yourself or something?
I'd be willing to gander a good amount of money that most reputable retic breeders would think you're a massive joke, you random nobody.

Good try attempting to insult and attack me, it's old. You're the one with the pet rat you claim is a dog and the idea that putting a retic on your shoulder is any less dangerous than any other method of moving it. Fact is, one day your retic will get big, it will crawl on your shoulder, and you won't be able to do anything about it. He will crawl right off, and won't do anything to you, and he'll do it over and over, and you'll realize that 15'+ animal is going to go where it wants, and doesn't care 1 bit about you, you're just a ladder to more exploration.

My biggest female is somewhere in the ballpark of 17-18 foot long, if she wants to climb up my body and over my shoulder, fine. Go youtube the video of shane interacting with the jampea in the picture. Watch people with experience in retics and understanding them/interacting with them struggle to contain that retic. You have NO idea what you're talking about if you think you as a rookie can do a better job of managing these animals than someone who's done it for years.

[infernalis]

wow, this thread made the reptile report yesterday, what an image we must be putting out there when brand new people follow the link back to this thread for the very first time.......

[CMRetics]

wow, this thread made the reptile report yesterday, what an image we must be putting out there when brand new people follow the link back to this thread for the very first time.......
The image of people who know nothing about retics and have no experience with them telling people with years and years of retic experience how to keep and handle their own snakes. Brilliant. I'm going to go tell nascar drivers how to drive properly next, because one time I broke 80 in a buick and handled some REALLY tight curves man.

[JK Reptiles]

Im not gonna get into this pissing match this turned into but I will say this. Those of you that think its idiotic to hold large constrictors around your neck, thats completely fine. The way i see it, they are my animals, its my life, and im the one risking it in those certain peoples eyes so leave it be. Certain people in this thread keep saying thats the reason "our" hobby is in jeopardy, well those people are narrow minded as hell. If you guys think its going to stop with large constrictors you guys are blind. Its gonna turn into your ball pythons, carpets, sand boas prettty much all exotics. Then when those people dont have the large constrictor guys and everyone else on their side they are going to ask what happened.

[CMRetics]

I would also like to ad, that large constrictors are the first things next to venomous to likely get limitations put on them. Those of that keep these animals have to fight day in and day out to kill the horrible reputation our snakes have, we have to fight for our ability to keep these animals a hell of a lot more than most snake keepers do.

Once they start to ban things, and they get momentum rolling, it's only a matter of time before everything is stripped away...

Some of us have dedicated am immense amount of time and energy into these awesome and powerful animals, and putting them in a good light, the last thing we need is to be attacked and insulted by the very hobby we are on the front lines trying to protect.

[JK Reptiles]

Exactly, when other keepers of various species knock us as large snake keepers it truly leaves a bad taste in my mouth about the whole hobby.

[Terranaut]

Yet another thread gone from the same debate. This is why I have asked a couple members via pm to just post a link to the "snakes around the neck thread" that way we can all just enjoy the pics of these amazing snakes. In every pic I have seen all I could think was "wow nice snake-ah crap someone is going to complain about it being around someines neck"
The debate is over. Its pointless to continue it yet again. Feel how you feel.
Please for the love if god just post more pictures of these awesome retics.

[reptileexperts]

Shane VS Monster Jamp - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNMprC4RRpw)

Not sure if someone posted but here is a video of it. Let's keep it on topic since it's being publically recognized and we need to put forward a helpful community and not one that badgers at every single point of potential argument.

[millertime89]

Wayne if you really cared about forum image you would have split this thread off a while ago. I can't believe that the ignorance displayed here actually got 3 different people with extensive big snake experience to sign up.

[Terranaut]

I for one am glad they have. The biggest snake I have at this point is a 7.5ft sunglow boa. I have considered a burm but am not sure I am ready to house and care for one at this point. After watching some of the videos I linked to through this thread I am considering a retic. I for one thank all of the on topic posters in this thread and hope they post more info. Threads about proper care and handling help us out. Whining over endlessly debated issues does not. I hope the haters will keep to the appropriate thread and leave the rest of them alone.

[CMRetics]

Wayne if you really cared about forum image you would have split this thread off a while ago. I can't believe that the ignorance displayed here actually got 3 different people with extensive big snake experience to sign up.
This^

Why certain members are allowed to attack/name call people is beyond me, and why anyone is even allowing such ignorance to prosper here is baffling. If you want a good forum image the first thing you should avoid is allowing insults/name calling of some of the biggest names in the big snake community.

I can speak for several people when I say it's left an extremely bad taste in our mouth.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Yet another thread gone from the same debate. This is why I have asked a couple members via pm to just post a link to the "snakes around the neck thread" that way we can all just enjoy the pics of these amazing snakes. In every pic I have seen all I could think was "wow nice snake-ah crap someone is going to complain about it being around someines neck"
The debate is over. Its pointless to continue it yet again. Feel how you feel.
Please for the love if god just post more pictures of these awesome retics.

Exactly. If I wanted to see a dead horse being beaten over and over and over again, I would read that link. All of this fighting is making me want to leave. It's ridiculous. Everybody's just starting a war at the drop of a pin, and it's quite irritating when SOME people just want to enjoy the thread. Everywhere you turn it's "you're stupid because you have a snake around your neck" and then a full-blown argument for the next 3 pages at least. This site used to be very accepting and helpful, and now all I feel is hostility coming from every direction, and I haven't even been hit!

[Aaron_S]

This^

Why certain members are allowed to attack/name call people is beyond me, and why anyone is even allowing such ignorance to prosper here is baffling. If you want a good forum image the first thing you should avoid is allowing insults/name calling of some of the biggest names in the big snake community.

I can speak for several people when I say it's left an extremely bad taste in our mouth.

Then leave.

IN particular the bolded part. How dare you consider yourself or anyone on a pedestal. The most arrogant thing you've said yet.

[Aaron_S]

I'm going to repost this in the other thread as well.


All things aside, we'll never agree. So I'm going to leave with this last comment.

If the government is all over the giants then we all can agree that these photos can be EASILY taken from the internet and manipulated by the sensationalist media. In your own words everyone is scared of the word "python" so this media would easily have everyone on their side. No one would care to get the true story, you'd be done.

So take away your "experience", your opinion and everything you are and just keep these things away from where the media can get it. That includes social media sites like facebook. The last thing you want is to give ammo to the ones who are working against you.