Sir David Attenborough - Wildlife documentaries

[infernalis]

We started down this path on the "snakes around the neck" thread, and honestly, his work is worthy of it's own discussion...

The BBC are currently doing a review showof his 60 years in wildlife tv, he is still as passionate and knowledgeable as he ever was.

The only other person i have watched who has a similar level of passion and knowledge is Dominic Monaghan (not just a Hobbit ;))

I have been following "60 years in the wild" Rob.

Did you see the part where the geese were following the boat? The photography was spectacular, and the genuine look of glee on David's face just added to it. (episode 2 of the series)

http://www.ssnakess.info/forum/DAgo.jpg

[DOBERMAN]

Attenborough is the bomb. got some of his books.
My gf is a huge Irwin fan. We disagreed alot about him.
I asked her that if he really loved animals as much as he stated then why did he have to make every animal he ever came into contact with more than uncomfortable, to the point of being frightened, defensive and sometimes, arguably tortured.
Brutal to say this - but he got what was coming to him.
The fact that whatever "Whale Wars" is, named a boat after him blows my mind. Another example of left wing conservationist hipocrisy

[infernalis]

sUlN4uOVRS8

[SnakeyJay]

I love all his documentaries... They're on a higher level for accurate information and his voice is iconic... As soon as he talks, you know exactly who it is.

[infernalis]

I love all his documentaries... They're on a higher level for accurate information and his voice is iconic... As soon as he talks, you know exactly who it is.

Very true, I have a garter snake documentary from BBC that never shows his face, but that's David talking in the background without any doubt.

[infernalis]

Attenborough is the bomb. got some of his books.
My gf is a huge Irwin fan. We disagreed alot about him.
I asked her that if he really loved animals as much as he stated then why did he have to make every animal he ever came into contact with more than uncomfortable, to the point of being frightened, defensive and sometimes, arguably tortured.
Brutal to say this - but he got what was coming to him.
The fact that whatever "Whale Wars" is, named a boat after him blows my mind. Another example of left wing conservationist hipocrisy

Don't want to stray too far, but I have my opinions on "whale wars" and it may not be popular with the masses.

[Zoo Nanny]

Love the guy. Have you seen his show on the Birds of Paradise? Incredible!

[infernalis]

cEh-zclVo44

[shaunyboy]

I love all his documentaries... They're on a higher level for accurate information and his voice is iconic... As soon as he talks, you know exactly who it is.

his documentrys are about the only ones i trust for accurate information

the mans a living legend imo

cheers shaun

[Lankyrob]

We started down this path on the "snakes around the neck" thread, and honestly, his work is worthy of it's own discussion...



I have been following "60 years in the wild" Rob.

Did you see the part where the geese were following the boat? The photography was spectacular, and the genuine look of glee on David's face just added to it. (episode 2 of the series)

http://www.ssnakess.info/forum/DAgo.jpg

Yes i did :) that episode was on last week. I am hoping there will be some compilation DVD at the end of the season as i could watch them over and over again.

I have a lotof complaints about the BBC but you cant dispute their nature documentarys :)

[Donnie]

It's always exciting when a new Attenborough documentary is advertised and never a disappointment when it is aired

[infernalis]

Yes i did :) that episode was on last week. I am hoping there will be some compilation DVD at the end of the season as i could watch them over and over again.

I have a lot of complaints about the BBC but you cant dispute their nature documentarys :)

Why not just record them when they are on Rob?? you already paid for the show with your annual Tax.

Correct me if I'm wrong but (been a while since I read it) the annual license allows you to record shows for personal use.

[Zoo Nanny]

I wonder if they are on Netflix? I have limited time to watch tv so have to make do with on demand or now my husband just got Netflix this week. I do really enjoy watching and listening to Sir David. Not only are his shows informative with incredible filming but I find listening to him is very relaxing.

[jarich]

Attenborough is the bomb. got some of his books.
My gf is a huge Irwin fan. We disagreed alot about him.
I asked her that if he really loved animals as much as he stated then why did he have to make every animal he ever came into contact with more than uncomfortable, to the point of being frightened, defensive and sometimes, arguably tortured.
Brutal to say this - but he got what was coming to him.
The fact that whatever "Whale Wars" is, named a boat after him blows my mind. Another example of left wing conservationist hipocrisy

Its funny how the different techniques are such a reflection of the two cultures. Attenborough is very much the polite, scholarly English gentleman explorer, while Irwin was the typical brash blue collar Oz bushman. I think they both love/loved the animals and had true passion for them, but our perspective drives that passion too.

Love the BBC nature shows in general, and Attenborough's specifically. I dont think they wouldve done nearly the quality work theyve produced without him driving it.

[Lankyrob]

Why not just record them when they are on Rob?? you already paid for the show with your annual Tax.

Correct me if I'm wrong but (been a while since I read it) the annual license allows you to record shows for personal use.

I could only record to my PVR and that gets full up REAL QUICK, i rarely have more than 20 hours free at any time :(

[infernalis]

I could only record to my PVR and that gets full up REAL QUICK, i rarely have more than 20 hours free at any time :(

How much free space do you have on your computer's hard drive??

You can download BBC shows from the internet too, then burn your own DVD's (for personal viewing)

[Lankyrob]

How much free space do you have on your computer's hard drive??

You can download BBC shows from the internet too, then burn your own DVD's (for personal viewing)

Computers pretty much dead :( any access of hard drive crashes it.

[infernalis]

bummer.

I tend to get carried away, Probably have 2 TB of televsion shows stored on external drives, and a DVD player with a front USB port to play it on.

[MoreliAddict]

How much free space do you have on your computer's hard drive??

You can download BBC shows from the internet too, then burn your own DVD's (for personal viewing)
If you have a macbook, all you need is a simple cable.

I have one that plugs into the TV's hdmi port, and into my macbook's lightningbolt port. Super smooth and crisp 1080 HD. :cool:

[infernalis]

If you have a macbook, all you need is a simple cable.

I have one that plugs into the TV's hdmi port, and into my macbook's lightningbolt port. Super smooth and crisp 1080 HD. :cool:


Any laptop / desktop PC works great.

My HD TV sets all have "PC in" ports, and most all laptops / video cards now have HDMI ports.

I would have killed for this technology 20 years ago when I had to wait for VHS tapes to arrive by mail from the UK.

[cossiecraig]

I personally liked his "Planet Earth" and his "Life" series ,those are the two that spring to mind ,that bieng said he's 1 of the finest in the buisness of documentry's regarding wildlife ,a legned of a man :)

[Ryodraco]

Life in Cold Blood remains one of my favorite reptile documentaries. I loved how it devoted itself to showcasing reptile and amphibian behavioral complexity rather than sensationalistic bloodshed.

Attenborough is the bomb. got some of his books.
My gf is a huge Irwin fan. We disagreed alot about him.
I asked her that if he really loved animals as much as he stated then why did he have to make every animal he ever came into contact with more than uncomfortable, to the point of being frightened, defensive and sometimes, arguably tortured.
Brutal to say this - but he got what was coming to him.
The fact that whatever "Whale Wars" is, named a boat after him blows my mind. Another example of left wing conservationist hipocrisy
Seems a bit harsh to say he "got what was coming to him" when his death was a freak accident (i.e. people are hardly ever killed by stingrays) and the man doubtless did more than most to encourage positive feelings toward misunderstood animals.

And yes animals he encountered became defensive over the course of his handling them, but that's par-for-the-course with any such interaction. Researchers capturing animals to be weighed and measured certainly puts more stress on them than the few minutes of gentle handling Steve Irwin would subject them to.

As far as I understand it underneath the foolish facade he was a legitimate researcher who actually published scientific papers and knew what he was doing.

[DOBERMAN]

"few minutes of gentle handling" ???
try watching some youtube videos to see him swinging snakes around by their tail as they thrash, bite and try to get away. Maybe because he calls them "beautiful" or "gorgeous" while he's doing it makes it ok.
The stingray incident itself was surely a freak accident in its own right, but if you expose yourself to dangerous animals over and over again - you are going to eventually pay the price. Attenborough can showcase animals in a much more educational and scientific manner without manhandling them.

[Ryodraco]

"few minutes of gentle handling" ???
try watching some youtube videos to see him swinging snakes around by their tail as they thrash, bite and try to get away. Maybe because he calls them "beautiful" or "gorgeous" while he's doing it makes it ok.

"Gentle" in that his handling methods were designed to keep from harming the animal. He avoided grabbing snakes by their heads simply because he believed there to be the threat of damaging their spines.

And of course the animals tried to bite and were frightened. Some captive snakes will as well at least at first, but its not considered torture to frighten them by cleaning poop from their enclosure is it?

My point being that he did the animals no physical harm. Quite often they ceased to even be visibly frightened once they realized they weren't being attacked, much as many captive snakes will thrash and try to bite when first picked up but then calm down. And given the many real threats snakes face every day from competitors and predators, I doubt the few minutes with Steve somehow emotionally scarred them.

Lastly, he initiated such encounters for the sake of education, not some cheap thrill. He knew what he was doing, and the safety of the animal always seemed paramount. If you find fault with Steve then I would think you'd have to find fault with every researcher and scientist who inevitably frightens or stresses his animal subjects as part of their work. Are those who capture animals to weigh and measure them also guilty of cruelty? They certainly often stress out the animal for a good deal longer than Steve would.

[Donnie]

A great little clip of Steve, would we all be as calm?

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[Donnie]

New Attenborough series being advertised to start soon "Africa"

[infernalis]

New Attenborough series being advertised to start soon "Africa"

Brilliant,............



Sir David Attenborough CBE and the award-winning BBC Natural History Unit embark on a landmark new series, painting a breathtaking portrait of Africa as never before caught on film. This lavish and unmissable companion to the BBC One series reveals the undiscovered side of Africa’s five unique regions. Inspiring photography captures unprecedented wildlife behaviour, mesmerising new creatures and magical landscapes that will astound and captivate, and will challenge what you think you know about Africa. This is a spectacular journey through a vast and diverse continent in all its beautiful and unexpected abundance.

Witness the drama of eagles catching giant bats on the wing, lizards stalking their prey on the backs of lions, antelope-hunting monkeys and a nail-biting giraffe fight. Share the discovery of the world’s rarest fish species and the first-ever access to an island sanctuary for the elusive African penguin. Marvel at a Congo fish that flies like a butterfly and a love-struck beetle who thinks he’s James Bond. Nowhere is more savage, more dangerous, yet more beautiful and alive than Africa. Join a unique expedition to the most extreme parts of this vast continent.

Think you know Africa? Think again. Witness this mysterious continent at its most unexpected

[Ryodraco]

Its going to be a sad, sad day when Sir David Attenborough gets too old to be a part of these shows. Albeit I wouldn't be surprised if the man is able to continue his works right until the end. He's truly amazing.:)

[DOBERMAN]

"Gentle" in that his handling methods were designed to keep from harming the animal. He avoided grabbing snakes by their heads simply because he believed there to be the threat of damaging their spines.

And of course the animals tried to bite and were frightened. Some captive snakes will as well at least at first, but its not considered torture to frighten them by cleaning poop from their enclosure is it?

My point being that he did the animals no physical harm. Quite often they ceased to even be visibly frightened once they realized they weren't being attacked, much as many captive snakes will thrash and try to bite when first picked up but then calm down. And given the many real threats snakes face every day from competitors and predators, I doubt the few minutes with Steve somehow emotionally scarred them.

Lastly, he initiated such encounters for the sake of education, not some cheap thrill. He knew what he was doing, and the safety of the animal always seemed paramount. If you find fault with Steve then I would think you'd have to find fault with every researcher and scientist who inevitably frightens or stresses his animal subjects as part of their work. Are those who capture animals to weigh and measure them also guilty of cruelty? They certainly often stress out the animal for a good deal longer than Steve would.

You just have to ask yourself a few questions when attempting to disseminate between right and wrong regarding the handling of animals;

- is this necessary?
- is this to the benefit of the animal?
- is this of benefit to educating the masses about this animal?
- how can we go about our task with the least amount of invasiveness to the health, mental or physical, of this animal?
- how much benefit am I receiving, directly or indirectly, by handling this animal

surely there is fault with anyone who comes into contact with an animal - including each one of us who harbours one.
It is in my estimation that Irwin was flagrantly and unnecessarily at fault on all counts.
The only point I would consider for debate would be point 3, that being many people who would otherwise skip over an Attenborough documentary to watch something more "dramatic" and interesting might just pause on the station where some Aussie was running around like some idiot who forgot to fill his Ritalin prescrip. How much the viewer really got out of that experience is questionable. Valiant researchers or handlers who are truly for the benefit of animals don't throw themselves onto an animal or throw the animal around during their course of handling.
Safety towards the animal or himself was not paramount. There you are absolutely incorrect. Ratings were.

[infernalis]

back on topic........

BBC - Archive - David Attenborough: Zoo Quest for a Dragon - Seeking the Komodo dragon in Indonesia (http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/attenborough/)

[MoreliAddict]

lizards stalking their prey on the backs of lions,
Will be interesting...

[Donnie]

New Attenborough series being advertised to start soon "Africa"

I saw the broadcast date advertised last night, Wednesday 2nd January so it will be on the BBC iPlayer soon after that.

[Lankyrob]

There is also one coming up on Sky1 in the UK where he is in Madagascar :)

[infernalis]

New Attenborough series being advertised to start soon "Africa"

Got It!!! the first episode is absolutely amazing.

http://www.chompersite.com/caps/aa.jpg

[Lankyrob]

Did you get to see the madagascar one too? Over here the Africa one is on BBC and Madagascar is on Sky1 ( and also in 3d if you have a posh telly ;) )

[Donnie]

Got It!!! the first episode is absolutely amazing.

http://www.chompersite.com/caps/aa.jpg
I was as impressed as ever watching it, I even watched it again when the repeat was shown yesterday :) I never knew giraffes fought and with such force as well :shocked:

I also managed to catch one of the Galapagos shows (I think there were 3) so I am hopeing they will be repeated soon as well.

[infernalis]

I was as impressed as ever watching it, I even watched it again when the repeat was shown yesterday :) I never knew giraffes fought and with such force as well :shocked:

I also managed to catch one of the Galapagos shows (I think there were 3) so I am hopeing they will be repeated soon as well.

I saw the repeat yesterday. I archive them on a hard drive so I can watch over and over.

Was that the BBC "Microworlds" special?? I have that one, brilliant.

On the subject, I find it highly amusing seeing Stephen Fry, Tony Robinson and other legendary comedians hosting nature specials.

Tony Robinson down under was a "cunning" special. (sorry, he will always be Baldrick to me)

The Komodo Dragon special with Stephen Fry is ace too...

[Donnie]

I saw the repeat yesterday. I archive them on a hard drive so I can watch over and over.

Was that the BBC "Microworlds" special?? I have that one, brilliant.

On the subject, I find it highly amusing seeing Stephen Fry, Tony Robinson and other legendary comedians hosting nature specials.

Tony Robinson down under was a "cunning" special. (sorry, he will always be Baldrick to me)

The Komodo Dragon special with Stephen Fry is ace too...
It was on sky1 and from the quick look I just had it appears to be a new series. Strange that Attenborough is not on the BBC as I think I have only seen him do shows for the beeb before. Here's a link

David Attenborough returns to Sky with a breathtaking new 3D series - Sky1 HD (http://sky1.sky.com/galapagos-3d-with-david-attenborough/david-attenborough-returns-to-sky-with-a-breathtaking-new-3d-series)

I haven't seen the Tony Robinson or Stephen Fry docs so I will have to look out for them but I am the same as you all I will see is Baldric and Melchett presenting them :)

[infernalis]

Amazing....

http://www.ssnakess.info/documentaries/gal.jpg

[Lankyrob]

Wewatched the last episode of Galapagos last night, whilst he is there they discover a PINK iguana!! A totally new species :)

That whole show is one of his best pieces of work imo :)

[dinosaurdammit]

"lizard kings"

LOVE IT, me and pajaaamas watched it. I am pretty sure he was able to understand there were argus/sand goanas on the tv because he seemed rather interested when they walked across the screen, he even would tripod when they would.

On netflix the bio of it says its got Sir DA as the narrator

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~varanus/LizardKings.jpg

[limey]

You are totally entitled to your opinion Doberman and there's really nothing wrong with that.

However I would have to disagree about Steve Irwin. You were a bit harsh.

I have friends who are keepers at Australia Zoo. They worked with Steve and Tammi Irwin for years. Both have told me time and time again what good people they are/were and how much they care about both their captive animals and wild populations. Steve had never once done anything to intentionally hurt any species he has come into contact with.

99.9% of the time, he might have enabled the viewer to get a better look of a critter by bringing it closer to the camera or doing some light handling as an educational tool. This may come across as a bit "fancy dancy" and unneccesary at times, especially when compared to the likes of Sir David who just observes and reports, however each person has their own way of helping educate. It's what made him famous.

Steve has done a lot in the conservation field that many are unaware of. I mean, a lot. He was very scientific and passionate about his approach to conservation and captive animal welfare. His hands-on approach might be a bit much for the likes of some, but remember you can't please everyone.

Steve was a good man with a big heart that will be sorely missed.

[limey]

I was as impressed as ever watching it, I even watched it again when the repeat was shown yesterday :) I never knew giraffes fought and with such force as well :shocked:

I also managed to catch one of the Galapagos shows (I think there were 3) so I am hopeing they will be repeated soon as well.

I saw this here in the U.S.

Always disappointed that the Americans have to dub over Attenborough's voice with an American person. The narrator in the U.S. is terrible. I cant understand him, he talks too fast and sometimes slurs his words into each other.

They had Oprah Winfrey do the Life series - she was bad. Everything felt dumbed down. Sigourney Weaver was the narrator for the Planet Earth series and didn't do half bad, but still, she's no Attenborough.

Really not sure why the American's feel the need to use American accents for everything. Maybe they think this nation can't understand a British person??? Just shows the faith TV Execs have in the American people... :wacky:

[Donnie]

I saw this here in the U.S.

Always disappointed that the Americans have to dub over Attenborough's voice with an American person. The narrator in the U.S. is terrible. I cant understand him, he talks too fast and sometimes slurs his words into each other.

They had Oprah Winfrey do the Life series - she was bad. Everything felt dumbed down. Sigourney Weaver was the narrator for the Planet Earth series and didn't do half bad, but still, she's no Attenborough.

Really not sure why the American's feel the need to use American accents for everything. Maybe they think this nation can't understand a British person??? Just shows the faith TV Execs have in the American people... :wacky:

I can't believe they do that :shocked: that is sacrilege to replace his voice

[Donnie]

Wewatched the last episode of Galapagos last night, whilst he is there they discover a PINK iguana!! A totally new species :)

That whole show is one of his best pieces of work imo :)

It was a very good mini series, I missed one of the episodes but hoping they will show them all again soon and I wish I would have been able to see it in 3D

[infernalis]

I can't believe they do that :shocked: that is sacrilege to replace his voice

This is terrible!!

If Sir. Attenborough read audio books, I would get them all, regardless of subject.

[Donnie]

This is terrible!!

If Sir. Attenborough read audio books, I would get them all, regardless of subject.

He has got the sort of voice that could make even the most boring of subjest sound interesting.


Have you managed to see the 2nd part of Africa yet? It is called "savannah" (but no bosc's in it though)

[limey]

I can't believe they do that :shocked: that is sacrilege to replace his voice

It really is.

Infact, ask a lot of Americans and you'll find out that they would prefer David Attenborough's narration - so I don't know why these TV Executives choose to edit him out and dub over with Oprah goddamn Winfrey. It's just plain rude :p

[infernalis]

Have you managed to see the 2nd part of Africa yet? It is called "savannah" (but no bosc's in it though)

The wildebeest jumping off the cliff to get to the grazing land was phenomenal. I would hate to be in their way!!

[Donnie]

The wildebeest jumping off the cliff to get to the grazing land was phenomenal. I would hate to be in their way!!

I have seen a similar migration (probably the same place but it was a while ago so I don't remember) and after they jump/fall into the river they are then playing dodge the croc to get to the other side :hmm: glad I am not having to do that to get to my dinner

[infernalis]

I have seen a similar migration (probably the same place but it was a while ago so I don't remember) and after they jump/fall into the river they are then playing dodge the croc to get to the other side :hmm: glad I am not having to do that to get to my dinner

Then after all that, if they break a leg, it Lion time.

[limey]

Then after all that, if they break a leg, it Lion time.

Nature is brutal. Natural selection can be torturous. It's for the benefit of all species though, to weed out the weak. Humans are no longer subjected to it. One might say that's unfortunate or fortuitous. Depends on your outlook. 7 billion humans and growing by 150,000 more every day... overpopulation on steroids.

[limey]

What with all the natural disasters and their rising frequency... hurricane sandy and we even had an earthquake here in Southern Alaska last week... it's like Mother Nature shouting "Hey, don't forget who's boss!"

She could have the last laugh any time she wanted... and may well do so at some point.

(got a bit sidetracked there, we were talking about a TV show...:) )

[Donnie]

But we do have a massive impact on the places we live. On the Galapagos program the other night he was saying that by people coming to them to live and visit that we have reversed evolution in a species of bird (damn it I wish I could remember what bird it was :unhappy:) as it had started to evolve into two separate sub species that was determined by the size and shape of their beak (beak getting smaller so it can get food from the cracks in the rocks) due to the type of food they would eat, but since "we" have been there and leaving our food scattered around they no longer need to have the smaller beaks to get into the cracks in the rocks and this evolutionary trait is stopping.
They also filmed lonesome George just before he died and the death of that species was solely down to us (as well as many, many others) :sad:

Edit; just remembered, it was a finch

[Kari]

Attenborough comic: bird and moon (http://birdandmoon.com/attenborough.html)

http://birdandmoon.com/images/attenborough.jpg

[Ryodraco]

I was as impressed as ever watching it, I even watched it again when the repeat was shown yesterday :) I never knew giraffes fought and with such force as well :shocked:
I'd seen giraffe fights before but never so well filmed or so epic in results. I never imagined them using so much strategy, I was cheering inside when the old bull overcame the young challenger with his superior skills.:cool:

It is unfortunate that I have to watch it without Sir David narrating though. The summary on the show even refers to him by name but I saw no sign of him on the first episode.

They also filmed lonesome George just before he died and the death of that species was solely down to us (as well as many, many others)
While humans have damaged it a great deal I find it heartening that the Galapagos remain one of the most intact island groups out there. That is something like 90% (forget the exact number) of the species that were there when Europeans first came still survive. The success of eradication campaigns for some introduced species is also good to hear.

[infernalis]

It is unfortunate that I have to watch it without Sir David narrating though. The summary on the show even refers to him by name but I saw no sign of him on the first episode..

I refuse to watch it any other way.

[infernalis]

BBC producers insist David Attenborough's Africa series did not manipulate viewers with emotive narrative | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2261216/BBC-producers-insist-David-Attenboroughs-Africa-series-did-manipulate-viewers-emotive-narrative.html)

[Donnie]

BBC producers insist David Attenborough's Africa series did not manipulate viewers with emotive narrative | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2261216/BBC-producers-insist-David-Attenboroughs-Africa-series-did-manipulate-viewers-emotive-narrative.html)
Yes it was sad but also so much a part of life and certainly not a reason to complain, but then again us brits do like a good moan sometimes..........

[infernalis]

had us a little "film festival" at my house yesterday watched in this order back to back.

BBC "Life" - Reptiles and Amphibians
Sky TV Galapagos - 1,2,3 (skipped making of this time round)
Sixty Years in the wild 1,2,3
Gorillas revisited

and capped it all off with Africa part 3 "Congo"

[infernalis]

I watched a Sky special called "In Confidence:Sir David Attenborough"

It was not about animals, rather it was about Sir. David himself.

Learned that he was offered the position of BBC director general and turned it down so he could continue working in the wild, and has a species named after him.

Attenborosaurus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attenborosaurus)

[jovamabob]

I love the Attenborough documentary's :D

My younger brother is autistic and will rarely sit and focus on anything for long - to the point where we can't even send him to school because no one will take him. Stick on an Attenborough documentary and his eyes won't leave that TV for the whole hour - its the one thing he'll focus on that isn't a video game! My mam went out and bought the DVD's so that she can get him to sit quietly for a few moments!

[infernalis]

The recent installment of "Africa" about the Cape of South Africa was (as always) brilliant.

The sea turtle segments were great, a little hard to watch the birds pick off so many, but that's nature.

[jovamabob]

The sea turtle segments were great, a little hard to watch the birds pick off so many, but that's nature.

My housemates were very upset that the crew were letting the birds take them rather than scaring them off and kept asking me why nature lets that happen. Once i explained that the birds need to feed themselves/their young and turtles have so many young for that very reason, they started to understand a little :)

[infernalis]

I have a hawk that lives on my property out back, majestic as an eagle mate, it fascinates me to see it swoop down and pluck snakes out of the grass, and I keep pet snakes.

[infernalis]

Very true, I have a garter snake documentary from BBC that never shows his face, but that's David talking in the background without any doubt.

^^^^^^^^^ BBC "Life" ^^^^^^^^^

The garter snake part was only a segment of one episode.

[Donnie]

Can't believe there is currently another Attenborough documentary being broadcast and I didn't know it was on. Missed 2 episodes already so going to scan the guide for repeats

David Attenborough's Natural Curiosities | Eden Channel (http://eden.uktv.co.uk/shows/david-attenboroughs-natural-curiosities/)

[infernalis]

Thanks Donnie....

Did you see "Sahara" ????

[Donnie]

Thanks Donnie....

Did you see "Sahara" ????

NP.

No, I was out and then the Mrs has been working nights since so we are set to watch it on catch up tomorrow night. I assume it was good (I can't see it being anything but)

[infernalis]

NP.

No, I was out and then the Mrs has been working nights since so we are set to watch it on catch up tomorrow night. I assume it was good (I can't see it being anything but)

Then I will not spoil it for you.

[Lankyrob]

^^^^^^^^^ BBC "Life" ^^^^^^^^^

The garter snake part was only a segment of one episode.

I watched this episode today :)

[infernalis]

I watched this episode today :)

Ever think you would see snakes active on ice and snow Rob?

http://www.thamnophis.co/gss.jpg

[Lankyrob]

Ever think you would see snakes active on ice and snow Rob?

http://www.thamnophis.co/gss.jpg

Hell, i never thought i would have them in my HOUSE!! ;)

Garrters are pretty cool, antifreeze in their blood so that they can be totally frozen and then defrost themselves :)

[infernalis]

Someone on RFUK said just a few days ago that if David Attenborough presented a documentary on toilets, it would still be captivating to watch.. I agreed.

[infernalis]

woo hoo 60 years in the wild is on right now on US TV, watching it at this moment.

[Swany]

Top Attenborough clip of all time was when he first started with th BBC and off he went to Papua new guinea. He is taken deep inland by canoe. Quite the English gentleman abroad in a white safari suit and hat. This tribe who wre genuine headhuters had all gathered along the banks of the river. Attenborough steps out of the canoe walks up to the chief, (who may never have seen a white man before) sticks his hand out and says "hello I'm from the BBC" the look on the chiefs face was priceless. :-)

[infernalis]

It's over... the episode was "Our Fragile Planet"

I am trying to find the schedule to see when more will be on.

[infernalis]

I like her even more now......

http://www.ssnakess.info/upload/BaF.jpg

[infernalis]

BBC News - Sir David Attenborough close up with blind rhino (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21367107)

Watched the final installment of "Africa" - the future of Africa.

Very moving.

[infernalis]

3:00 minutes in.. excellent.

rdS_8ru14I4

[crocdoc]

Its funny how the different techniques are such a reflection of the two cultures. Attenborough is very much the polite, scholarly English gentleman explorer, while Irwin was the typical brash blue collar Oz bushman. I think they both love/loved the animals and had true passion for them, but our perspective drives that passion too.
There are two ironic things about this statement:
1. Irwin was not the typical Australian by a long shot. He created an archetype that made most people in Australia cringe. And no, we don't say 'crikey'.
2. Irwin was huge in the USA, not in Australia. Attenborough's documentaries were (and are) far more popular here than Irwin's shows. If it weren't for the US market, the world wouldn't know who Irwin was and we wouldn't be having this conversation in this forum.

I'm with Doberman when it comes to Irwin. I think his saddest legacy is that many of the networks will no longer produce a nature program unless it involves someone manhandling the animals. The BBC still does, of course, and I'm encouraged by the positive responses in this thread, but Nat Geo and Animal Planet will not. The other legacy is in the private sector. I'm glad that many people say they wouldn't have got into reptiles without Irwin's inspiration, but seeing the thousands of Irwin-wannabees on YouTube hassling the bejesus out of every reptile they find shows what a double-edge sword that is. Do we need that sort of inspiration?

When Attenborough's Life In Cold Blood was first released in the USA, it was cut short before all of the episodes were broadcast because the viewing public lost interest: no one was jumping on the animals. How sad is that?


Seems a bit harsh to say he "got what was coming to him" when his death was a freak accident (i.e. people are hardly ever killed by stingrays) and the man doubtless did more than most to encourage positive feelings toward misunderstood animals.
It's very true that people rarely get killed by stingrays, but to call it a freak accident is to pretend he wasn't likely way too close to the ray when it happened, given the nature of rays and the nature of the fatal wound. I'm not saying 'he got what was coming to him', but let's not pretend this was a ray coming out of nowhere stabbing someone in the chest because it felt like it. As for encouraging positive feeling, what does the rash of stingrays being slaughtered after his death say about the message his fans were getting?


And yes animals he encountered became defensive over the course of his handling them, but that's par-for-the-course with any such interaction. Researchers capturing animals to be weighed and measured certainly puts more stress on them than the few minutes of gentle handling Steve Irwin would subject them to....Lastly, he initiated such encounters for the sake of education, not some cheap thrill.
Researchers handle animals for a purpose other than entertainment. I wouldn't have minded if Irwin's programs were somewhat educational, but most of the time he was doing the animals a disservice by screaming out how aggressive they were (even though he had them by the tail which, of course, means they were being defensive rather than aggressive) and what the consequence would be if he got 'tagged'. People hate snakes, particularly in Australia. They don't need to be told, for example, that red-bellied blacksnakes (a famously placid elapid) are 'aggressive'. In my eyes, it was all about the cheap thrill and TeeVee entertainment.


As far as I understand it underneath the foolish facade he was a legitimate researcher who actually published scientific papers and knew what he was doing.
Aside from a couple of papers of breedings at Australia zoo, are you aware of any publications that you can tell us about?


Steve has done a lot in the conservation field that many are unaware of. I mean, a lot.
Are you able to outline any of it? Although his heart was in the right place, he did seem to have some odd ideas about conservation. For example, he was against the crocodile farm industry (which was one of the things that saved crocodiles in Australia by producing products without having to take crocodiles out of the wild, allowing them to be protected in the wild from the 1970s onward) and was also against the kangaroo industry (which is much more sustainable than breeding sheep for meat, because the latter didn't evolve here and consequently eat plants down to root level and then break up the roots with their hooves). I think what would surprise the massive number of reptile keepers that say they were inspired to keep reptiles because of him was his known disapproval of the private keeping of reptiles.

I have no doubt he was passionate and genuinely loved animals. Friends that knew him say he was as enthusiastic in life as he was on his shows (although people that worked with him, that I've spoken to, anyway, have been a little less generous about him). He may have been a great guy and a real animal lover, but I really objected to the message he gave most of the time, which was aimed to entertain rather than educate, making things look more aggressive and dangerous than they are and passing on the message that observing animals isn't enough - you have to dominate them through manhandling.

[infernalis]

Let's just say I do not own a single Irwin DVD, not would I care to.

However, I cannot get enough Attenborough, we just watched seven hours of "Life on Earth" (1979) over the weekend, Captivating. Even my teenage kids remain quiet and watch.

I have to say I have learned so much from these specials, The dying coral reefs, melting ice caps, deforestation & the overall condition of our planet is a hell of a lot more critical than some people would lead us to believe.

The permanent ice on top of Mt. Kilimanjaro is almost gone! The rain forests of the world are the very engines driving our weather patterns, they are in peril, the Ice caps reflecting the sun's energy back into space are melting away at an alarming pace, Polar bears are struggling to survive, we are burning out our planet at an alarming pace..

One thing I have always appreciated about the BBC, brutal honesty. No sugar coating to make us feel good.

[crocdoc]

Let's just say I do not own a single Irwin DVD, not would I care to. However, I cannot get enough Attenborough

That describes my DVD collection, too. I have a stack of Attenborough DVDs (including documentaries produced by him and some just narrated by him), a few produced by the ABC/BBC together and a smattering of others, including some independent documentary makers (Kaufmann productions - the people that made Lizard Kings). Not a single DVD of any personality-based reptile 'show' involving someone jumping on animals.

[Ryodraco]

When Attenborough's Life In Cold Blood was first released in the USA, it was cut short before all of the episodes were broadcast because the viewing public lost interest: no one was jumping on the animals. How sad is that?
This is certainly sad, considering what a quality show it was. It is a simple and sad fact though that many casual fans of animal programming want to see blood and guts and hilariously overblown descriptions of how dangerous something is more than info on how complex reptiles really are.

It's very true that people rarely get killed by stingrays, but to call it a freak accident is to pretend he wasn't likely way too close to the ray when it happened, given the nature of rays and the nature of the fatal wound. I'm not saying 'he got what was coming to him', but let's not pretend this was a ray coming out of nowhere stabbing someone in the chest because it felt like it.
Perhaps, but people get close to stingrays all the time without incident. Heck tourists hand feed them in some places, standing in the water with them and don't get stung.

As reckless as Steve was or wasn't, he seemed pretty good at avoiding being bitten or stung by creatures he interacted with. Albeit he did realize the risk, and hoped that if he was killed by an animal it was not a crocodile, fearing that it would undo his efforts to give them a more positive image.

As for encouraging positive feeling, what does the rash of stingrays being slaughtered after his death say about the message his fans were getting?
It's a human reaction, not saying they are comparable in magnitude but the murder of Martin Luther King Junior was responded to with a great deal of violence, this didn't change his message of non-violence.

And as I recall the slaughter of stingrays was condemned by his wife and quoted as such by the media.

Researchers handle animals for a purpose other than entertainment. I wouldn't have minded if Irwin's programs were somewhat educational, but most of the time he was doing the animals a disservice by screaming out how aggressive they were (even though he had them by the tail which, of course, means they were being defensive rather than aggressive) and what the consequence would be if he got 'tagged'. People hate snakes, particularly in Australia. They don't need to be told, for example, that red-bellied blacksnakes (a famously placid elapid) are 'aggressive'. In my eyes, it was all about the cheap thrill and TeeVee entertainment.
Certainly I don't doubt this happened. It was the thrills and close encounters that made his show popular in the United States after all, but I always had the impression that Steve wanted to use them as a sounding board for conservation messages.

And quite often it seemed like he handled the animals to give the message about how NOT aggressive they were. He would frequently note how the snake only wanted to get away from him, or how it ceased trying to bite once it realized Steve was not trying to eat him. I especially recall him handling an inland taipan (at that time more popularly known as the fierce snake) noting it was "fierce by name, not by nature."

Aside from a couple of papers of breedings at Australia zoo, are you aware of any publications that you can tell us about?
Nope, but seeing his work on perentie breeding in a excellent book on monitor lizards impressed me as before that I didn't know he had any scientific credentials.

Are you able to outline any of it? Although his heart was in the right place, he did seem to have some odd ideas about conservation. For example, he was against the crocodile farm industry (which was one of the things that saved crocodiles in Australia by producing products without having to take crocodiles out of the wild, allowing them to be protected in the wild from the 1970s onward) and was also against the kangaroo industry (which is much more sustainable than breeding sheep for meat, because the latter didn't evolve here and consequently eat plants down to root level and then break up the roots with their hooves). I think what would surprise the massive number of reptile keepers that say they were inspired to keep reptiles because of him was his known disapproval of the private keeping of reptiles.
Just a note that I wasn't the one you quoted there, and I certainly agree those aspects of his conservation philosophy don't make much sense, but then again I don't think I ever heard him explain those views.

He may have been a great guy and a real animal lover, but I really objected to the message he gave most of the time, which was aimed to entertain rather than educate, making things look more aggressive and dangerous than they are and passing on the message that observing animals isn't enough - you have to dominate them through manhandling.
I can agree with this. While there were times where he simply observed the animals, they were overshadowed by the "close encounters" that made him famous.

[crocdoc]

Perhaps, but people get close to stingrays all the time without incident. Heck tourists hand feed them in some places, standing in the water with them and don't get stung.

Hand feeding them or wading in water with them is one thing, hassling them from above in shallow water is what gets one stabbed in the chest. That can't happen when hand feeding them or wading in shallow water. As I said, it is clear from the nature of stingrays and the nature of the wound what was going on at the time. Sad occurrence? Definitely. Freak accident? No. It was a ray defending itself.

And as I recall the slaughter of stingrays was condemned by his wife and quoted as such by the media.
That's not the point I was making. I did not suggest that his wife or anyone would have been in favour of the killings, what I was pointing out was that the supposed message of care/conservation people say he gave was clearly lost on his viewers. His program had too much "OMG crikey if I get tagged by this I am in so much trouble!" Consequently his viewers killed the rays in revenge. A bit like people wanting to kill the bull that takes the life of a famous bullfighter - it was the opponent and they are angry. If Attenborough were killed by some species of animal while filming its behaviour during a program, I'd be willing to bet his fans do not go on a killing rampage because the message behind his programs is so different from that of Irwin.

It was the thrills and close encounters that made his show popular in the United States after all, but I always had the impression that Steve wanted to use them as a sounding board for conservation messages.

At the cost of sending out a bad message about the animals? How is that conservation? The media is extremely powerful. If you have several hundred million viewers, as Irwin had, you want to be careful about what message you are sending out there.

And quite often it seemed like he handled the animals to give the message about how NOT aggressive they were. He would frequently note how the snake only wanted to get away from him, or how it ceased trying to bite once it realized Steve was not trying to eat him. I especially recall him handling an inland taipan (at that time more popularly known as the fierce snake) noting it was "fierce by name, not by nature."

The message can't be 'quite often'. It has to be always. For every show with that message, there are two or more with "look how aggressive it is!". However, I'm glad you mentioned the inland taipan, as I was about to bring that up as an example.

I'll tell you the story about how I had first heard of Irwin. I was on the telephone with a very good friend from my university days in Canada when he said "I had no idea how dangerous inland taipans were". My reply was "what makes you think they are dangerous?" In case you are curious, the inland taipan is the most venomous snake in the world but can hardly be classified as dangerous as there has never been a confirmed human death by one. They live in remote areas and are incredibly shy.
My mate then told me about this 'croc hunter' show, so I decided to watch a couple of episodes. I couldn't believe my eyes, as I was appalled.

I suspect this wasn't the show my mate had watched, but was one that came much later, but if you search youtube for Irwin and inland taipan, this is what comes up at the top.
Irwin and inland taipan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXh0rLQPK5g)

A few quotes (inbetween the loud 'snake' hisses added in the editing room).

"This is one wild unit!"

"This is the snake you don't want to get tagged by!"

"This bloke could have enough venom in one bite to kill 100 blokes my size!"

"You wouldn't want to take a whack of a snake this size!"

"She's just trying to tag Steve Irwin on the face"

"It's just starting to get a little bit aggressive" (he still has it by the tail)

"See it's coming back on me, it's coming back on me real fast!"

"make no doubt about it, it would whack its fangs into me at any given moment"

"see how it keeps lining me up? It's getting really really grumpy"

"how is that for a swing, straight at me"

Finally, most of the way through this series, he slips in one line that the snake just wants to get away.

Don't take my word for it, watch it for yourself.

Nope, but seeing his work on perentie breeding in a excellent book on monitor lizards impressed me as before that I didn't know he had any scientific credentials.

He didn't have any scientific credentials. Coincidentally, I read that paper when I was involved with perentie breeding at another facility. It was light on details, but zoo reports on monitor breeding often are, so that's no fault of his. Most zoo monitor breedings are haphazard occurrences and the conditions are described in hindsight. They are rarely repeated.

[crocdoc]

Oh, and I apologise for misquoting you on the conservation bit. That was remiss of me.

Just to be clear, I'm not an Irwin 'hater' and I don't think that everything he did was bad. I simply feel that when one is broadcasting to an audience of millions one has to be very clear on the message being sent out. One of the responses I've received over the years whenever this discussion comes up is "yes, but it's more entertaining doing it that way and the stations wouldn't get the same audiences doing it another way". Which is true, but would you be willing to do the animals you love a disservice by giving them bad PR if it meant more money/ratings for you? I have been involved in wildlife programs in which I've been interviewed and then later, in edit, the producers have added another narrator finishing the thoughts/sentence to turn the message around and I have regretted being involved as it's completely compromised my principles. For example, I was asked about the toxicity of an eastern brown snake's venom and my response was that although they are highly venomous, they avoid confrontation and will flee if given the chance. In the final program, I am seen saying that they are highly venomous, at which point I get cut off and we see a simulated snake-bite scene with an unseen narrator saying "...but what makes them REALLY dangerous is their aggressive blah blah blah". I hate it and cringe whenever it gets aired. Had the producers told me they'd be doing that I would have refused to be involved. What gets me particularly angry is that, prior to the program being filmed, I was assured that it wouldn't be yet another 'dangerous snake' program, that it would show the other side to snake behaviour and that I'd be able to qualify any statements of toxicity with another message, such as 'but bites are rare because the snakes avoid people' etc.

[Ryodraco]

Just to be clear, I'm not an Irwin 'hater' and I don't think that everything he did was bad. I simply feel that when one is broadcasting to an audience of millions one has to be very clear on the message being sent out. One of the responses I've received over the years whenever this discussion comes up is "yes, but it's more entertaining doing it that way and the stations wouldn't get the same audiences doing it another way". Which is true, but would you be willing to do the animals you love a disservice by giving them bad PR if it meant more money/ratings for you? I have been involved in wildlife programs in which I've been interviewed and then later, in edit, the producers have added another narrator finishing the thoughts/sentence to turn the message around and I have regretted being involved as it's completely compromised my principles. For example, I was asked about the toxicity of an eastern brown snake's venom and my response was that although they are highly venomous, they avoid confrontation and will flee if given the chance. In the final program, I am seen saying that they are highly venomous, at which point I get cut off and we see a simulated snake-bite scene with an unseen narrator saying "...but what makes them REALLY dangerous is their aggressive blah blah blah". I hate it and cringe whenever it gets aired. Had the producers told me they'd be doing that I would have refused to be involved. What gets me particularly angry is that, prior to the program being filmed, I was assured that it wouldn't be yet another 'dangerous snake' program, that it would show the other side to snake behaviour and that I'd be able to qualify any statements of toxicity with another message, such as 'but bites are rare because the snakes avoid people' etc.
Is it ever possible to include in a contract that you have the right to see the final edit before it gets aired? I suppose not, given how complicated these things are.

[crocdoc]

I did ask, but that wouldn't happen.

[Donnie]

On another forum somebody found some critters in his viv so springtails were suggested rather than mites and then this popped up

OwOL-MHcQ1w&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[crocdoc]

On another forum somebody found some critters in his viv so springtails were suggested rather than mites and then this popped up

OwOL-MHcQ1w&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Awesome! Life in the Undergrowth?

[Donnie]

Awesome! Life in the Undergrowth?

I haven't a clue it was just the link posted and my memory is terrible and I can watch some things again and it be like the first time so me trying to recall if it was from a particular series is futile but it sounds like a reasonable assumption to me :yes:

[Ryodraco]

Springtails are awesome little things, it's too bad their antics can't really be appreciated with the naked eye.

On another note, I've recently been made aware of some admittedly odd criticism of Attenborough: David Attenborough Accused Of Ignoring Gay Animals In His Nature Shows - Celebrity Gossip, News & Photos, Movie Reviews, Competitions - Entertainmentwise (http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/104656/David-Attenborough-Accused-Of-Snubbing-Gay-Animals-From-Africa)

The main criticism is that the programs "ignore" the interpretations of a given behavior being evidence of homosexuality. Regardless of anything else, I think it is rather silly to expect a documentary to address every possible interpretation of a given animal behavior in its narration.

[infernalis]

Just got all 5 installments of "Natural Curiosities" from Eden channel.

superb, I could get lost in that museum.

[Donnie]

I have only watched the 1st one so far (I think it was the 1st with the chameleons?) and have got the others recorded so no spoilers ;)

[jarich]

First time I have seen this one. Talk about an amazingly cool bird!


VjE0Kdfos4Y

[infernalis]

I learned this by accident. If you have a home theatre system with a sub woofer, or just a powerful sub woofer, watch these with it turned on!!!

I watched BBC "Life" and accidentally left the sub woofer turned up, and WOW the tribal beats in the background are "thumpy" (try it)

The sound engineers did a great job, the drum beats never wash out the commentary.

[Donnie]

I learned this by accident. If you have a home theatre system with a sub woofer, or just a powerful sub woofer, watch these with it turned on!!!

I watched BBC "Life" and accidentally left the sub woofer turned up, and WOW the tribal beats in the background are "thumpy" (try it)

The sound engineers did a great job, the drum beats never wash out the commentary.

Damn it, I had to pack away my 5.1 surround sound system to make way for more vivs :hmm:

[DOBERMAN]

Was at a yard sale this last Saturday. It was the end of the day and the girl said everything was free. Picked up an old Pepsi steel serving tray, a lobster trap, a set of turn signals for my ATV, a cabinet which could or could not be re-fashioned into a habitat cage, and..... The entire series of Trials of Life with Sir DA himself. FREE. They are on VHS and now I have to get me a VHS player again!

[Donnie]

For those that are interested and can get access to this channel, a new mini series is starting tonight

Micro Monsters 3D with David Attenborough - Sky1 HD (http://sky1.sky.com/sky1hd-shows/micro-monsters-3d-with-david-attenborough)

[Donnie]

Watched this tonight David Attenborough's Natural History Museum Alive 3D (http://www.sky.com/tv/show/attenborough-museum-3d) another fantastic program from the great knight of the realm.
Told my 4 year old daughter who watched it all completly enthralled that we will visit that museum one day which made her really exited as she said she could see all the animals come to life and move around the museum so I had to explain to her it was just a program and the animals don't move around to which she replied "no daddy, they properly do" :D Oh to be young again.....

[Jinxygirl]

He is one of my biggest idols! I actually get teary eyed watching his documentaries sometimes. lol :o

[infernalis]

Watched this tonight David Attenborough's Natural History Museum Alive 3D (http://www.sky.com/tv/show/attenborough-museum-3d) another fantastic program from the great knight of the realm.
Told my 4 year old daughter who watched it all completly enthralled that we will visit that museum one day which made her really exited as she said she could see all the animals come to life and move around the museum so I had to explain to her it was just a program and the animals don't move around to which she replied "no daddy, they properly do" :D Oh to be young again.....

Watched that with my grand kids earlier today. The opening is funny, Like Sir. David would have to hide behind a display to gain after hours access.:rolleyes:

[Donnie]

Watched that with my grand kids earlier today. The opening is funny, Like Sir. David would have to hide behind a display to gain after hours access.:rolleyes:

that's sky tv for you ;)

[infernalis]

when does he rest?

http://www.varanuspark.com/cool/rise.jpg

[infernalis]

LhKIOY0CiEA

[Terranaut]

Was at a yard sale this last Saturday. It was the end of the day and the girl said everything was free. Picked up an old Pepsi steel serving tray, a lobster trap, a set of turn signals for my ATV, a cabinet which could or could not be re-fashioned into a habitat cage, and..... The entire series of Trials of Life with Sir DA himself. FREE. They are on VHS and now I have to get me a VHS player again!

I still have a few vcr's. Almost better off downloading it from the internet and keeping the vhs tapes as collectables.