Hognose terrarium size preferences

[Ryodraco]

I've been reading up on hognoses lately, and it seems they might be what I'm looking for in a active, diurnal snake. However, I have found a bit of conflicting information.

Namely I have seen it stated repeatedly that hognoses don't like overly large enclosures. Yet I have also read that making the enclosure too small (like a ten gallon aquarium size) inhibits their ability to thermoregulate effectively as there isn't enough space for the other end of the terrarium to cool down sufficiently from the quite high hot end temperatures they prefer.

I'm a fan of Exo Terra terrariums, and basically would like to know what among them you think would make the best adult hognose enclosure. I presume a low one would be recommended as they don't climb much and it might make them feel more secure than having a high ceiling. But then there is the question of length. The two size classes I am looking at are:

60 x 45 x 30 cm / 24” x 18” x 12” (WxDxH)

And

90 x 45 x 30 cm / 36” x 18” x 12” (WxDxH)

Now the larger one I presume would be okay for a female hognose, but the smaller one is only 4 inches wider than ten gallon aquarium which I read is too small.

I guess a quicker way to ask this is at what size does a terrarium typically become threatening to a hognose of a given size?

[Slcburm]

IM surprised the resident hognose asshat hasnt answered yet...Oh well give her..err him a little time and it will

[StudentoReptile]

The 24x18 should be fine for a male hognose. And likewise, the 36x18 should be adequate for an adult female.

[Gregg M]

IM surprised the resident hognose asshat hasnt answered yet...Oh well give her..err him a little time and it will

How mature of you...


Anyway, to answer the OPs question, Those sizes are perfectly acceptable for adults. The smaller being for adult males and the larger for adult females.

Hope this helps.

[infernalis]

IM surprised the resident hognose asshat hasnt answered yet...Oh well give her..err him a little time and it will

OK, That's it people.

I have had it with the willy nilly name calling bullshat.

Bye bye...

We are going to get back to a professional friendly place, even if it means a massive house cleaning to get there.

[EmbraceCalamity]

OK, That's it people.

I have had it with the willy nilly name calling bullshat.

Bye bye...

We are going to get back to a professional friendly place, even if it means a massive house cleaning to get there.Awww. You're no fun. :p

~Maggot

[Gregg M]

OK, That's it people.

I have had it with the willy nilly name calling bullshat.

Bye bye...

We are going to get back to a professional friendly place, even if it means a massive house cleaning to get there.

Way to go bro. Lucky that the majority of people here are respectable and nice to eachother so you wont have to clean up much.

[Lankyrob]

OK, That's it people.

I have had it with the willy nilly name calling bullshat.

Bye bye...

We are going to get back to a professional friendly place, even if it means a massive house cleaning to get there.

Thank god for that :)

[KORBIN5895]

How mature of you...


Anyway, to answer the OPs question, Those sizes are perfectly acceptable for adults. The smaller being for adult males and the larger for adult females.

Hope this helps.

Come on Gregg! You giggled. I really giggled when he got the boot. He is just jealous of your good looks , knowledge and success.
( I only believe in two of the three)

OK, That's it people.

I have had it with the willy nilly name calling bullshat.

Bye bye...

We are going to get back to a professional friendly place, even if it means a massive house cleaning to get there.

Good on you Wayne. It's about time. Now I better go back into hiding so I can keep my membership.....

@op

Are you sure you want a venomous snake?

[reptileexperts]

Hognose are only mildly venomous with them rarely biting and their absolutely weak toxins the OP should be fine even if one should sustain a bite. I have 5 hogs and the only time you're likely to get bit is during a feeding rush where they are biting at anything that moves, they are fun little worms to feed for sure!

As for size, I know breeders that use 32 qt tubs for males and females - roughly 16 1/8" x23 3/4" x 6" sterlite tubs. And their females are happy, healthy, and great breeders! Most females stay on the small side of the spectrum, if you ended up with a larger adult I would def rec going ahead with a 41 qt tub set up if you can, but for most females and all males 30.6 - 32 qt tubs will suffice. - My oldest male has been in a 30.6 qt tub happily for a while now, and has been with me for the better part of 6 years. My 2012 girls and boy are currently growing out in 12.2 qt tubs :-)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8197/8216920925_4b54c7253c_c.jpg

Hope this helps!

[Ryodraco]

Hognose are only mildly venomous with them rarely biting and their absolutely weak toxins the OP should be fine even if one should sustain a bite. I have 5 hogs and the only time you're likely to get bit is during a feeding rush where they are biting at anything that moves, they are fun little worms to feed for sure!
Indeed, I just need to make sure that if I do get bit I don't let it hang on and chew for minutes. That seems to be what causes the largest reaction.

As for size, I know breeders that use 32 qt tubs for males and females - roughly 16 1/8" x23 3/4" x 6" sterlite tubs. And their females are happy, healthy, and great breeders! Most females stay on the small side of the spectrum, if you ended up with a larger adult I would def rec going ahead with a 41 qt tub set up if you can, but for most females and all males 30.6 - 32 qt tubs will suffice. - My oldest male has been in a 30.6 qt tub happily for a while now, and has been with me for the better part of 6 years. My 2012 girls and boy are currently growing out in 12.2 qt tubs :-)
But tubs aren't the best for observing the animals are they? Hence why my questions centered on terrariums. I also wanted to know more about the statements I'd heard about hognoses being uncomfortable in large terrariums (presumably compared to other snakes of similar size, as it is my understanding most snakes are uncomfortable in enclosures that are too much larger than they are).

[reptileexperts]

Okie dokie then. . . just giving you a working size reference . . .

They don't stress in large containers as long as they have room to hide and burrow as desired. Same with many species of snakes with some exceptions (Many Morelia do not do well this way).

[Ryodraco]

Okie dokie then. . . just giving you a working size reference . . .
My apologies if I sounded ungrateful.:(

[Gregg M]

They don't stress in large containers as long as they have room to hide and burrow as desired.

For the most part, this statement is incorrect. Hognose snakes do indeed stress out in larger cages. In some cases it can mean the difference between your hognose eating or not eating. This is especially true for younger hogs.

Hide spots and burrowing options do not matter. For the most part, hogs do not stay hidden for any length of time. When kept correctly, they are very active snakes. If I had a hognose that stayed hidden all the time, I would be worried about it.

Not trying to be a jerk but you have like 5 hogs and most of them are not even yearlings yet. For you to say they do not stress in larger cages is a bit premature being that they are known to stress when they are kept in too large of a cage.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8429/7578893322_b207d229ae_z.jpg

[reptileexperts]

I only have 5 westerns so my point is moot eh? Besides the fact I have been raising one of mine for 6 years, or the fact I've been working with Easterns for the better part of 13 years does not matter. Then again, what do I know I'm just comparing their wild side to their captive. . .

[Gregg M]

I only have 5 westerns so my point is moot eh?

Your point is moot because the information you are dishing out is completely wrong. The fact that you only have 5 hognose snakes for less than a year means that you have almost no basis to form you incorrect theory. Never mind giving people incorrect information.


Besides the fact I have been raising one of mine for 6 years,

That is one snake compared to hundreds, even thousands, that other breeders have raised. Including the hundred plus I raise every season.

or the fact I've been working with Easterns for the better part of 13 years does not matter.

Well being that Easterns are a completely different species, the two can not be compared. They have different habitats and behaviors. Their captive care is also completely different. A common problem in this hobby is people lumping animals together like they are one in the same. So yeah, the "fact" that you may have kept an Eastern or two does not matter when we are talking about Westerns.

It is awesome that you have been working with such a tricky captive since you were 13 years old. You really are a reptileexpert. Got any photos of your Easterns? Would love to see some. I would especially like to see some that you have hatched out in captivity.

Then again, what do I know I'm just comparing their wild side to their captive. . .

What you think you "know" about their "wild side" has nothing at all to do with their care in captivity. So, just from this single post, it is pretty apparent that you do not know much about Western hog care in captivity or their "wild side".

Like I said, I am not trying to be a jerk. Just trying to keep incorrect information from being spread on the forum. Do not take it personal. It is not about you or me. It is about the animals in our care.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Not to take sides here Gregg (I don't know anything about these guys), but if he's agreeing that he's had his one for six years, wouldn't that mean that this isn't accurate: "...you only have 5 hognose snakes for less than a year..."?

~Maggot

[Gregg M]

Not to take sides here Gregg (I don't know anything about these guys), but if he's agreeing that he's had his one for six years, wouldn't that mean that this isn't accurate: "...you only have 5 hognose snakes for less than a year..."?

~Maggot

Ok, he claims he has had one for 6 years and 4 for less than a year. It still does not make his incorrect information correct. Did you have a point or did you just want to knit pick my post?

[DeesBalls]

OK, That's it people.

I have had it with the willy nilly name calling bullshat.

Bye bye...

We are going to get back to a professional friendly place, even if it means a massive house cleaning to get there.

Go Wayne!!

[Ryodraco]

Many thanks for the clarification from Gregg, though I apologize for having inadvertently sparked an argument (albeit I like civil debates so hopefully nobody is actually angry in this case).

[EmbraceCalamity]

Ok, he claims he has had one for 6 years and 4 for less than a year. It still does not make his incorrect information correct. Did you have a point or did you just want to knit pick my post?I'm not saying it does. I very clearly stated I wasn't taking sides. I was simply clarifying, because you said he had one for six years and then said in the very next sentence that he only had babies. So I wasn't sure what was going on.

~Maggot

[Gregg M]

I'm not saying it does. I very clearly stated I wasn't taking sides. I was simply clarifying, because you said he had one for six years and then said in the very next sentence that he only had babies. So I wasn't sure what was going on.

~Maggot

I still do not see what needed clarifying. But if thats what you needed so you can know whats going on, glad I could help you.

[EmbraceCalamity]

I still do not see what needed clarifying.Give it time. :)

~Maggot

[reptileexperts]

Yeah I backed away from this before I got into more of an argument - in the wild hognose are rarely seen, they like to stay hidden - and this holds true in captivity. Thay are active during the day yes, but they still prefer to stay hidden at night and during the day when not searching out food, water, or warmth.

I have shots of my Easterns on a very old photobucket account, I'll have to try and find it. I know I have shots of the last Eastern I had which was an eastern Texas locale red phase, but this is not the place to post. If I find the photobucket stuff I'll PM you. All my recent stuff is kept up with on Flickr.

Make your stake that your side of the story is "more accurite" because of the amounts of hogs you raised, and that is fine. Doesn't mean for all accounts it's going to be accurate though. There are always other ways that work. . . just look at how many theories are out there on raising GTP . . .

[Gregg M]

Give it time. :)

~Maggot

If you have nothing to add, you should really keep from posting in this thread. This is about captive care of hognose snakes.

in the wild hognose are rarely seen, they like to stay hidden - and this holds true in captivity. Thay are active during the day yes, but they still prefer to stay hidden at night and during the day when not searching out food, water, or warmth.

Again, this is not true for Westerns. They are not exactly the shy and elusive species you are claiming it to be. I know when I open my rack draws, I rearely see one burrowed or in a hide. Ones that I have in more natural set ups rarely hide.

In captivity, they are bold and rarely hide away. Like I said, when kept PROPERLY, you will very rearely see them hidden away. Now, if we were talking about wild caught Easterns that you claimed to work with for 13 years, I would tent to agree with you.

I have shots of my Easterns on a very old photobucket account, I'll have to try and find it. I know I have shots of the last Eastern I had which was an eastern Texas locale red phase, but this is not the place to post. If I find the photobucket stuff I'll PM you. All my recent stuff is kept up with on Flickr.

That same old story? Why is it always "I need to find the pics" when you ask someone for proof of their claims? You do not have a picture of atleast one Eastern? Come on dude. You have been working with them "for the better part of 13 years".
So which better part of 13 years did you keep them? How old can your photos be that you cant find them? I can find pics of animals I had 10 years ago without a problem. How many have you owned? Did you ever breed them? Why are you not keeping them anymore? No need to PM me. This is a Heterodon forum. Easterns are Heterodon so you can make your own Eastern hognose thread in this forum.

Make your stake that your side of the story is "more accurite" because of the amounts of hogs you raised, and that is fine. Doesn't mean for all accounts it's going to be accurate though. There are always other ways that work. . . just look at how many theories are out there on raising GTP . . .

The point I am making is that what I am saying is something that is seen by many other keepers and breeders, including myself. What you are saying is going against what everyone else has seen. The reason is, you are working with 1 animal for a good amount of time and 4 animals for less than a year.

The MAIN point is that large caging can and does stress hognose snakes out.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8428/7861658352_eaf1849e80_c.jpg

[knox]

Hey guys - sincere question here, because I hear the debate about large vs small enclosures all the time.

Why is it that a snake can be "in" an enclosure the size of the globe and be just fine, but when we take them as pets we have to confine them to a small enclosure?

I have always had success with large enclosures and providing ample hiding spots and cover.

Looking forward to your responses. It is definitely an interesting topic with varying experiences. Thanks!

[reptileexperts]

If you have nothing to add, you should really keep from posting in this thread. This is about captive care of hognose snakes.



Again, this is not true for Westerns. They are not exactly the shy and elusive species you are claiming it to be. I know when I open my rack draws, I rearely see one burrowed or in a hide. Ones that I have in more natural set ups rarely hide.

In captivity, they are bold and rarely hide away. Like I said, when kept PROPERLY, you will very rearely see them hidden away. Now, if we were talking about wild caught Easterns that you claimed to work with for 13 years, I would tent to agree with you.



That same old story? Why is it always "I need to find the pics" when you ask someone for proof of their claims? You do not have a picture of atleast one Eastern? Come on dude. You have been working with them "for the better part of 13 years".
So which better part of 13 years did you keep them? How old can your photos be that you cant find them? I can find pics of animals I had 10 years ago without a problem. How many have you owned? Did you ever breed them? Why are you not keeping them anymore? No need to PM me. This is a Heterodon forum. Easterns are Heterodon so you can make your own Eastern hognose thread in this forum.



The point I am making is that what I am saying is something that is seen by many other keepers and breeders, including myself. What you are saying is going against what everyone else has seen. The reason is, you are working with 1 animal for a good amount of time and 4 animals for less than a year.

This is getting out of hand Greg, I'm done responding to this and the OP can PM me at this point. I got my first digital camera when I was probably 16 - and even then my access to getting shots uploaded was few and far between. Same old story or not, you have been more than insulting to myself, and none the less not helpful to the topic by trying to say Yours is THE ONLY WAY. I have a pretty significant hog breeder about 20 minutes from my home, where I picked mine up from - his adults will come out when you open a tub, but when left alone they are generally just chilling under substrate until interacted with. . . But I am not going to argue with a wall here. Again, signing off since I dont meet you expectations of advice.

[Gregg M]

Why is it that a snake can be "in" an enclosure the size of the globe and be just fine, but when we take them as pets we have to confine them to a small enclosure?

Well in the wilds, they are not wandering the globe. They are in their own micro habitat. Why hognose stress in larger cages? I do not know why. All I know is they can and do in many cases. Like I said before, this is especially true for young animals.

I have always had success with large enclosures and providing ample hiding spots and cover.

What species? There are many species that are fine in larger cages. Again, this is about hognose snaks in particular.

This is getting out of hand Greg, I'm done responding to this and the OP can PM me at this point. I got my first digital camera when I was probably 16 - and even then my access to getting shots uploaded was few and far between. Same old story or not, you have been more than insulting to myself, and none the less not helpful to the topic by trying to say Yours is THE ONLY WAY. I have a pretty significant hog breeder about 20 minutes from my home, where I picked mine up from - his adults will come out when you open a tub, but when left alone they are generally just chilling under substrate until interacted with. . . But I am not going to argue with a wall here. Again, signing off since I dont meet you expectations of advice.

This is not out of hand. It may seem that way to you because you are having trouble proving your claim.

I can care less who your significant hog breeder is. That is not important. You are not seeing a large collection every day. YOU are not interacting with them on a daily basis. Your hog breeder is and so am I.

You should really be sitting back and absorbing information instead of giving advice on a subject you are not experienced in. Giving your opinion is great but presenting that opinion as fact is detrimental especially when your opinion is flawed.

[Lankyrob]

This is getting out of hand Greg, I'm done responding to this and the OP can PM me at this point. I got my first digital camera when I was probably 16 - and even then my access to getting shots uploaded was few and far between. Same old story or not, you have been more than insulting to myself, and none the less not helpful to the topic by trying to say Yours is THE ONLY WAY. I have a pretty significant hog breeder about 20 minutes from my home, where I picked mine up from - his adults will come out when you open a tub, but when left alone they are generally just chilling under substrate until interacted with. . . But I am not going to argue with a wall here. Again, signing off since I dont meet you expectations of advice.

I love how often this happens - person A makes lots of claims, person B refutes these claims with experience and asks for clarification from person A. Person A then claims to be being harassed or bullied or that it is an argument out of control, refuses/fails to provide any evidence or experience to back up their claim and then goes off in a huff!! :D:D:p:D:D

[Gregg M]

I love how often this happens - person A makes lots of claims, person B refutes these claims with experience and asks for clarification from person A. Person A then claims to be being harassed or bullied or that it is an argument out of control, refuses/fails to provide any evidence or experience to back up their claim and then goes off in a huff!! :D:D:p:D:D

Happens all the time Rob. Nothing you can do but weed out the bad information.

[AjaMichelle]

I have had my western hog for only a short time and he's out every time I come in the room, or appears shortly after I enter. The only time he's MIA is when he's in shed.

[knox]

I have ZERO experience with Hogs. That's why I asked about the enclosure size.

I am sure even their micro habitats are larger than a 2 ft by 3 ft area. Why do they stress in areas larger than that in captivity?

We may never know - I am just asking for opinions. Detract the claws, I am trying to learn something here.

[Gregg M]

Why do they stress in areas larger than that in captivity?

We may never know - I am just asking for opinions. Detract the claws, I am trying to learn something here.

Wish I knew why. We are all trying to learn. Thats one of the best things about this hobby. We can never stop learning.

[Gungirl]

I think the main reason that snakes stress out in large vivs is that they do not offer near enough hiding or proper husbandry. Putting them in smaller area's allows for us to better control the climate and leaves them less out in the open.

I am sure if you took a 10ft x10ft room and set it up perfectly to allow them all the same things they get in the wild that the animal would thrive and not stress out.

Of course this is all just my opinion.....

[poison123]

what if you add lots of leaf litter,bark and burrowing substrate? im sure they would do fine though you may not ever see it lol

[Gregg M]

what if you add lots of leaf litter,bark and burrowing substrate? im sure they would do fine though you may not ever see it lol

The thing is, even with all of that, they are still always out and about. We have a few set up in natural cages.