View Full Version : Snakes getting out..
Gungirl
11-19-12, 07:52 AM
Ok so with all these threads lately about snakes escaping I was wondering what you people are keeping them in? I am not trying to bash on anyone but I really just want to see what the majority of the issue is. How is it that all these snakes get out. I have never had an escape and I know of breeders that house 100-500 snakes with no issues. Yet some people seem to have a snake get out every other week it seems.
I custom make all my vivs so I know that they are escape proof. I use tubs ( with binder clips on the lids) until the viv is done, Once again escape proof.
If everyone can post honestly we can see what is going on and make sure it all gets fixed. Outside of the " I forgot to lock the cage" issues. If that is the case then make yourself a check list so that when the snake goes back into its viv you know for a fact it is secure.
Aaron_S
11-19-12, 07:55 AM
Keeper error more often then not.
Terranaut
11-19-12, 08:02 AM
Yup I have to agree. This has to be the number one most preventable snake issue we see on here. I can see one escape but some members here have had the same snake escape the same enclosure = brutal. What kills me is how some just don't do what it takes to find the snake. Oh well seems to be an attitude with some. I don't know how they can be like that.
Gungirl
11-19-12, 08:06 AM
I guess what is bothering me is that so many people say fish tanks are fine for snakes. however so many people have snakes escape fish tanks.. ugh! I don't understand how in one thread people are saying FISH tanks are fine but then 20 minutes later they post a thread about how their snake got out and they are clueless as to why. I just want to know if people have had escapes from other types of enclosures or not.. ? Maybe this should have been a poll.. idk
Aaron_S
11-19-12, 08:08 AM
I've preached it forever. Fish cages SUCK.
Gungirl
11-19-12, 08:09 AM
I agree 100% with you..
The one escape Ive had in all my years of keeping was the one non fish tank I have ever used. If youd like to say screen lids suck then fine, but a glass box with a solid lid is just as safe to keep a snake in as a plastic or wood box. The difference being its better insulated ;)
MoreliAddict
11-19-12, 08:14 AM
Keeper error more often then not.
How could it ever be the snake's fault?
Aaron_S
11-19-12, 08:16 AM
How could it ever be the snake's fault?
Touche.
I have, on really rare occasions, known some snakes to break the enclosure.
Gungirl
11-19-12, 08:31 AM
Jarich.. what did you keep the snake in that it got out of?
Lankyrob
11-19-12, 08:53 AM
My only escape was from a second-hand melamine vivarium. The previous keeper had drilled a hole in the back of the viv to put a thermostat probe through. I saw the hole but it was so small i never considered it as an escape risk.
My six month old corn managed to get through it - it was tight squeeze but he managed it :(
It was a custom enclosure I got with the python. The front had swollen in one part, leaving a small gap. He was able to work at it and push his way out.
infernalis
11-19-12, 09:10 AM
Not only that, but going on a forum with it is not the wisest thing to do.
Let's see, over the years I have had several garter snakes get out, My Ball Python has escaped 3 times, etc....
Now - have I ever started a thread about it?? NO.
Each and every time, I left a latch undone, a cover open or some other totally stupid absent minded uh oh.... so why would I make a thread about being absent minded?
We also have to remember that some of these people are in a much newer stage of reptile keeping than some of us.
Point being, I did a few dumb things along the way, Heck I still make errors in judgement.. Anyone who has been keeping animals for any thength of time has a mortality or two under their belt, and are a lot less likely to launch a "pity party" thread when a snake dies.
A rookie keeper is far more likely to post the "my snake died, I don't know why" threads...
Aaron_S
11-19-12, 09:11 AM
Not only that, but going on a forum with it is not the wisest thing to do.
Let's see, over the years I have had several garter snakes get out, My Ball Python has escaped 3 times, etc....
Now - have I ever started a thread about it?? NO.
Each and every time, I left a latch undone, a cover open or some other totally stupid absent minded uh oh.... so why would I make a thread about being absent minded?
Because you're absented minded :D
KORBIN5895
11-19-12, 09:12 AM
I've preached it forever. Fish cages SUCK.
And we all know your extensive experience with sucking.
Aaron_S
11-19-12, 09:12 AM
And we all know your extensive experience with sucking.
I don't need to know your sick fantasies with Mykee.
KORBIN5895
11-19-12, 09:21 AM
I don't need to know your sick fantasies with Mykee.
We are talking about fantasies. We are talking about your experience.
Aaron_S
11-19-12, 09:22 AM
We are talking about fantasies. We are talking about your experience.
I have none in that department. You're confused with someone else. It's okay, you're old and a lot of people look like me ;)
BACK ON TOPIC now...
Danimal
11-19-12, 09:27 AM
The one escape Ive had in all my years of keeping was the one non fish tank I have ever used. If youd like to say screen lids suck then fine, but a glass box with a solid lid is just as safe to keep a snake in as a plastic or wood box. The difference being its better insulated ;)
I agree Jarich, it's still user error. I get it, tanks are not for everyone or every situation but what is? Most of what I have seen over the years is similar to what Rob said, there was a hole or a gap that couldn't possibly be big enough for the snake to escape through.
Will0W783
11-19-12, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by infernalis: Point being, I did a few dumb things along the way, Heck I still make errors in judgement.. Anyone who has been keeping animals for any thength of time has a mortality or two under their belt, and are a lot less likely to launch a "pity party" thread when a snake dies.
Wayne, I couldn't agree with this more. Anyone who keeps a number of snakes for years will make mistakes...it's part of the learning curve. There's a period of learning for everything; unfortunately will herping it involves living creatures. I do think it's important for people to recognize their mistakes and try to learn from them; I think what's been annoying me more than anything with the large number of "my snake escaped" or "my snake won't eat" or "my snake is blue in the eyes...what's wrong?" threads is the repetition...people will go onto this forum to make a thread. WHy can't they take five minutes and see if anyone else made a similar thread and just read that and LEARN???? Then they get upset and all sore when we point out that they could have looked it up and found an answer easily, rather than expect us to magically change and pat them on the back. The answers to a question will always be the same...no matter who asks it.
There is really no excuse for repeat escapes. Having a snake escape once when you're still learning happens to a lot of people. Some people it will never happen to, but others it's part of the learning process. However, when someone lets a snake get out multiple times, I cant' even comment because I will lose my temper. It's negligence. I've had snakes escape...a few years ago I kept everything in second-hand homemade melamine enclosures. They weren't the best, and after an escape, I redid all the locks. After another snake escaped, I saved up for new cages and got rid of those. I had to pare down on the number of snakes I had to afford the new cages, but it was worth it because all my animals are secure and safe now.
Fish tanks are NEVER good enclosures for snakes. They do not hold humidity, and the screen tops don't even allow for efficient heating because all the hot air wants to just escape out the top. Even with cage clips, snakes can push up a corner and get out. Even with a sliding lid, snakes can press up against the screen and work a spot loose from the edging (the screens are usually only held in with a strip of rubber...flimsy). Furthermore, aquariums are so expensive now compared to commercially available snake-specific caging that they just aren't worth it. I personally LOVE PM Herps line of cages. They're lightweight plastic with tight-fitting doors that lock with turning pegs or can be keyed. Boaphile and Boamaster and Vision also all make nice snake-friendly caging.
An ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure. People don't research and think before getting animals, and then the animals suffer. Not ok.
infernalis
11-19-12, 10:22 AM
we should make a sticky FAQ thread!!!
Then when the same questions pop up, direct them to it.
Fish tanks are NEVER good enclosures for snakes. They do not hold humidity, and the screen tops don't even allow for efficient heating because all the hot air wants to just escape out the top. Even with cage clips, snakes can push up a corner and get out. Even with a sliding lid, snakes can press up against the screen and work a spot loose from the edging (the screens are usually only held in with a strip of rubber...flimsy). Furthermore, aquariums are so expensive now compared to commercially available snake-specific caging that they just aren't worth it. I personally LOVE PM Herps line of cages. They're lightweight plastic with tight-fitting doors that lock with turning pegs or can be keyed. Boaphile and Boamaster and Vision also all make nice snake-friendly caging.
An ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure. People don't research and think before getting animals, and then the animals suffer. Not ok.
Ok, if we would like to start another thread on aquariums, Im more than happy to participate in that debate. But once again, your whole point here is the lid, not the aquarium. And also, this is a thread on escaping, which has nothing to do with glass.
millertime89
11-19-12, 10:54 AM
My one escape was when I drilled a whole for the t-stat probe that was too big, didn't think my little BRB could get through it, I was wrong. Tore apart my entire room searching for him, found him 1 foot below his cage in my dresser, obvious place that I didn't think to check first. Did I run to the forum and make a post? Nope. If you check on your snakes regularly you can usually catch them inspecting potential escape routes. My BP always has his nose through one of his bigger air holes but he can't fit his head through (I'll try and get a picture sometime, kinda funny).
When you buy an animal you are taking full responsibility for its care and by not making sure the enclosure is secure after ONE escape you are failing that responsibility. Don't just assume they can't push the lid off, because they will. Check the lids strength, if its flexible, the snake will eventually figure out it can push its way out.
EmbraceCalamity
11-19-12, 11:30 AM
I can see it happening. I haven't had a reptile escape from their setup since I was 7, but it still happens. It's just not something that should be happening habitually, especially not with the same one.I've preached it forever. Fish cages SUCK.HISSSSSSS. :mad:
~Maggot
Will0W783
11-19-12, 11:34 AM
Originally Posted by Aaron_S View Post
I've preached it forever. Fish cages SUCK.
Originally posted by EmbraceCalamity:
HISSSSSSS.
Why the animosity, Maggot? In most cases, fish cages (aquariums) are inadequate for snakes. They might be ok for temperate snakes like garters, corns and kinds, but definitely not for the most tropical exotics. Why buy a heavy, fragile, hard-to-secure, expensive glass tank when you can spend the same, or less, on a PVC or melamine enclosure made with snakes/reptiles in mind?
EmbraceCalamity
11-19-12, 11:37 AM
Why the animosity, Maggot? In most cases, fish cages (aquariums) are inadequate for snakes. They might be ok for temperate snakes like garters, corns and kinds, but definitely not for the most tropical exotics. Why buy a heavy, fragile, hard-to-secure, expensive glass tank when you can spend the same, or less, on a PVC or melamine enclosure made with snakes/reptiles in mind?...
I wasn't being serious. Chill out.
~Maggot
Falconeer999
11-19-12, 01:15 PM
I'm just curious where people are getting these cheaper PVC/melamine enclosures I've seen mentioned so many times because I can get a 40gal Zilla critter keeper for $40-50 on sale at PetCo (every other month they have them for 50% off and on the opposite months they have $1/gallon on regular aquariums).
Will0W783
11-19-12, 01:25 PM
I usually buy my PVC enclosures used. If you check Craigslist every few days, and scan Fauna you can find some good stuff.
Will0W783
11-19-12, 01:28 PM
My problem with aquariums is the combination of glass tank + screen lid is generally not tremendously secure or easy to heat/humidify. I use Companion Habitats displays for my non-venomous stuff. They are made of glass, but the units seal and slide out on trays and have access from top and sides. They are pretty much the kind of cages Petco and Petsmart use for their reptiles.
These are glass, but not typical aquariums. I've found them to work wonderfully for my snakes.
millertime89
11-19-12, 07:58 PM
I find my PVC enclosures at expos and on the local herp groups. If I can't drive to pick it up its not worth it to ship due to the size of them. I've gotten some pretty good deals buying used. Always powerwash and let it sit for a few days if you buy used before putting an animal in.
shaunyboy
11-19-12, 08:25 PM
i have only ever had 1 snake escape a few times from the same enclosure,it was a jungle hatchling kept in the largest size exo terra faunarium.....
there are vents around the top of the all the sides,of the main part of the tub,1 of the slats were cracked right through at the bottom...
the jungle was pushing the bottom of the slat outwards,so it had enough room to squeeze out..
after 4 or 5 days of checking,then double checking the fanarium,and much head scratching...
i found the crack
other than the above.....
the only escapes i've had,were when I did NOT close their enclosure properly (BAD keeping on MY part)
in the snake shop i used to work as a volunteer.....
they had a hatchling milksnake,squeeze out between the tiny space between the glass sliding doors,the part where they over lap on top of each other,in the middle of the tank,it could'nt be more than 3 or 4mm...
we caught it mid way through an escape attempt,when we went into open the shop one morning,i would NEVER have believed it,had i not seen it with my own eyes
cheers shaun
StudentoReptile
11-19-12, 08:46 PM
The vast majority of escapes I have had in the past involved glass tanks and screen tops...and ironically the same snake. Once I started keeping that snake (and others) in snake-specific enclosures, no more escapes.
The only exceptions were a couple keeper error incidents where I forgot to slide a tub in all the way in a rack, or forgot to lock a compartment-type enclosure. In those cases, the security of the enclosure was sound...but it only works if you close it!
I found out how my snake go out there was a hole in the lid of my tank from where the heat light was sitting and made it bend and almost melt.I used hot glue to make sure it wouldn't happend again along with some plexie glass to fell the small hole in I didn't think mar would have ever got out of a hole so little but I guess I was wrong I am working on building my own viv out of wood so that I don't have to worrie about this again and knowing what I know now about my snake and how easy it is for them to get out I will never go with another glass tank. Tops are way to hard to deal with when it comes to making sure ther are no holes anywhere not even a 1\2 of one!
Gungirl
11-19-12, 09:18 PM
Glad you found the issue iipink, if you have any questions about building one we have some great threads here on the forum for DIYers.. I can also help answer any questions you have.
TeaNinja
11-19-12, 09:19 PM
Touche.
I have, on really rare occasions, known some snakes to break the enclosure.
reminded me of a thread where someone's burm or retic Headbutted THROUGH their plexiglass front panel in a feeding response lol. never forgot that.
Ya kat,I been looking at them and I seen one the other day that I feel like I can use to help me 100% but something I'm still a lil on the unknow side about has to be where does the uth go on a wood viv and can u peel one off and reuse it?
Gungirl
11-19-12, 09:29 PM
I wouldn't use a Uth in a wooden viv...that's not what they are made for. Get a radiant heat panel instead.
DeesBalls
11-19-12, 09:47 PM
I guess what is bothering me is that so many people say fish tanks are fine for snakes. however so many people have snakes escape fish tanks.. ugh! I don't understand how in one thread people are saying FISH tanks are fine but then 20 minutes later they post a thread about how their snake got out and they are clueless as to why. I just want to know if people have had escapes from other types of enclosures or not.. ? Maybe this should have been a poll.. idk
this says it all... either visions cages, custom cages, or tubs/rack... fish tanks are horrible (even though i am currently using one... )they suck... plain and simple.
DeesBalls
11-19-12, 09:48 PM
I wouldn't use a Uth in a wooden viv...that's not what they are made for. Get a radiant heat panel instead.
hate to double quote, but i agree, i have FLexwatt in my wooden vivs, (all covered, and all seal so water can NOT get in, and all tested with water before snakes go in) and i hate them... when I get the money, i am switching all to radient heat panels... they give off better ambient temps IMHO
Aaron_S
11-19-12, 09:55 PM
I'm glad so many people share my view on fish cages. It makes me all warm and fuzzy on the inside.
Go see the aquarium thread debate folks, this seems more appropriate there
DeesBalls
11-19-12, 10:00 PM
Go see the aquarium thread debate folks, this seems more appropriate there
I was just saying that fish tanks are not made for snakes, HOWEVER, with some customization and a little work, i think you can make them work, but alot of new people who get snakes and use them, dont know/want to "custom" stuff.
Pareeeee
11-19-12, 10:25 PM
I use a fish tank for my rosy boa, because it provides an environment that's easy for me to keep dry. I've had him over a year and he has never escaped (jinx!)....I think it's due to the fact that the lid I'm using snaps on so darn tight, and is made of fairly heavy-duty metal bars. The door-latch is extremely strong as well. I think many people buy the wrong type of lid (probably the weak ones meant for the average lizard terrarium) and also, most importantly, don't thoroughly check their enclosures for flaws before putting their snake in there.
DeesBalls
11-19-12, 10:34 PM
I use a fish tank for my rosy boa, because it provides an environment that's easy for me to keep dry. I've had him over a year and he has never escaped (jinx!)....I think it's due to the fact that the lid I'm using snaps on so darn tight, and is made of fairly heavy-duty metal bars. The door-latch is extremely strong as well. I think many people buy the wrong type of lid (probably the weak ones meant for the average lizard terrarium) and also, most importantly, don't thoroughly check their enclosures for flaws before putting their snake in there.
yea, i mean im using one for a royal, ive used them for corns, and a sand boa, but like stated, they can be used, just not the idea for some species of snake.
StudentoReptile
11-20-12, 07:03 AM
I certainly do not feel they should be used for large constrictors (i.e. boas & pythons) say, over 5-6 ft.
marvelfreak
11-20-12, 07:14 AM
My big Jungle is in a Boaphile for a reason. Every cage i have ever kept her in she escaped or broke the cage trying to get out. I had her in a cage like Rob's She wrapped around the light and pulled till she broke the cord then squeezed her fat but out the two inch whole. I fix this so she couldn't do it again. So then she starts dumping her water bowl every day after i leave for for work. After about a week of this the wood at the bottom started getting wrapped and soft. She push hard enough and broke the bottom side out. Come home one day to fine her sitting in the kitchen. The Boaphile is the only cage i had her in that she has never escaped. If any cage had a week spot she fine it.
My Borneo escaped her tote a couple times last winter that's why i got the big Iris VE 175 (Christmas) totes. The old tote just had the snap down lid. The VE 175 has heave duty flip up and lock latches on both ends. The lid as a 1.5 to 2 inch over lap all the way around so there's know way for a smaller snake to squeeze threw. WHEN USING TOTES ALWAYS GET ONE WITH THE FLIP UP AND LOCK LIDS.
KORBIN5895
11-20-12, 07:16 AM
I certainly do not feel they should be used for large constrictors (i.e. boas & pythons) say, over 5-6 ft.
Even a carpet?
Pareeeee
11-20-12, 08:48 AM
I certainly do not feel they should be used for large constrictors (i.e. boas & pythons) say, over 5-6 ft.
Agreed. They could probably snap any lid off of a fish tank.
EDIT: My BP is in a tub and will most likely stay in one, because tubs are better for humidity retention and also simulate a burrow.
infernalis
11-20-12, 09:00 AM
I have often wondered just how a BP would behave in a huge enclosure
kept at Ghana temperatures and humidity. (Like I keep my monitors)
Will0W783
11-20-12, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by TeaNinja: reminded me of a thread where someone's burm or retic Headbutted THROUGH their plexiglass front panel in a feeding response lol. never forgot that.
This was probably me. Trogdor, my huge albino Burmese python male, slammed against the glass of his Vision cage and cracked the door straight down the middle. There had been a tiny chip in it (I didn't think anything of it...but it apparently weakened the glass!). I had to call Vision and order a new door and put Trog up in a temporary cage until the new door came in. I was shocked...I knew conceptually how strong he was, but that was a good reminder!
Danimal
11-20-12, 09:45 AM
I worked with a guy that impulse bought a large Burmese once when we were on a road trip. It was 12 or 13 feet when he bought it and he had no place to put it so when he got home he put it in his bathroom. It destroyed that bathroom.
That was a beautiful snake. He ended up making pretty good side money taking pictures of people holding it and selling it to them at the fairgrounds.
Aaron_S
11-20-12, 10:30 AM
I have often wondered just how a BP would behave in a huge enclosure
kept at Ghana temperatures and humidity. (Like I keep my monitors)
I bet they hole up and never move out of a burrow.
millertime89
11-20-12, 11:13 AM
reminded me of a thread where someone's burm or retic Headbutted THROUGH their plexiglass front panel in a feeding response lol. never forgot that.
My buddy's big burm bent the latch on her enclosure when she hit the front plexi.
StudentoReptile
11-20-12, 08:45 PM
Even a carpet?
I would say so, yes. IMHO, a 6 ft carpet is stronger than most 6 ft colubrids. It's not just a flippant opinion; I have handled 6 ft carpets and I have handled 6 ft ratsnakes, kings and pits. I genuinely believe they're stronger.
Some may disagree, and my response to those people would be: maybe your 6 ft colubrids don't need to be in glass tanks either, because big ratsnakes, kings and pits can escape pretty easily out a screen top!
Strutter769
11-20-12, 09:03 PM
All of my escapes have been due to an error I had made.
EmbraceCalamity
11-20-12, 10:07 PM
All of my escapes have been due to an error I had made.Not to be a smartass, but what else could they be due too? XD
~Maggot
infernalis
11-20-12, 10:14 PM
Not to be a smartass, but what else could they be due too? XD
~Maggot
Cunning snakes, :) ;)
infernalis
11-20-12, 10:20 PM
This would be the thread to admit to a few of the more amusing escapes.
I had a garter snake escape his enclosure and enter a mouse colony and devour the pinkies. Somehow I got lucky and the adult mice did not attack and kill him for it. I found him fat and happy in the mouse cage.
I found my big Pueblan milk snake coiled up in a chair, down in my basement when I didn't even know he was out of his cage.:eek: how he made it down to the basement from an upstairs reptile room is a mystery, His cage now requires a Phillips head screwdriver to open it.
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