Mouth Rot?

[EmbraceCalamity]

So I was in the Biology department at my university, and in one room there are a couple different projects set up for our Animal Behaviour class. In two small tubs, there was a little bit of water and a few large riverstones. I didn't see anything at first, but then I realised each one had two tiny, tiny baby red-eared sliders in them. (For the record, I can't imagine these poor things could have possibly been able to get onto the riverstones by themselves to get out of the water.) Without even thinking, I picked one of them up (which I know I shouldn't have done, but in hindsight it might be a good thing that I did), and I noticed that it didn't look well. Now my area of interest is geckos, not turtles, but it appeared to have what I'd consider mouth rot would look like. Its mouth was open and there was a lot of pale yellow slimy gunk in its mouth, and it refused to open its eyes at all. (The other one in the other...dish appeared to be alright.) I promptly emailed the professor to express my concerns (fingers crossed that they're not hers).

My question is: Does this sound like mouth rot? Or am I off base? How treatable is it that this stage? I told her that if the owner was unable or unwilling to treat it, that I'd be willing to take it (as a temporary measure, as I have 0 experience with turtles and don't really feel I could provide a proper enclosure for it).

~Maggot

[Aaron_S]

I am unsure if that's mouth rot as I don't know much about diseases in turtles.

I would contact Marc at Little RES Q (http://www.littleresq.net)

[Snakeman8]

i dont know, ive never had a problem with mouth rot, but sounds like the describtion of it.

[EmbraceCalamity]

I wish I'd taken a pic...or just taken the turtle. If it's still there on Monday, I'm probably just gonna take it. They wouldn't be able to prove it's me, even though I'm sure they'll be able to figure it out. I won't let the thing die just because I might get in trouble.

~Maggot

[Lankyrob]

If they are ill and being kept in incorrect conditions then your best bet is to report it through the proper channels, otherwise they will just replace it with another one that will have to live in teh incorrect conditions.

[EmbraceCalamity]

If they are ill and being kept in incorrect conditions then your best bet is to report it through the proper channels, otherwise they will just replace it with another one that will have to live in teh incorrect conditions.Heh. This is a very rural area with very poor views on animals. I've reported horses being kept in terrible conditions to the proper authorities, and he just called me back and told me they were fine.

The guy messaged me and said he can't take care of them right now, so I guess I'll be taking them. So I just ran out and got a big tub to keep them in for now. I'll post pics once I get them.

~Maggot

[shaunyboy]

that I'd be willing to take it (as a temporary measure, as I have 0 experience with turtles and don't really feel I could provide a proper enclosure for it).

~Maggot

The guy messaged me and said he can't take care of them right now, so I guess I'll be taking them
~Maggot

i'm NOT having a go,or being cheeky.....

imo you are doing the right/decent thing,in taking them into your care,where they will get the proper attention

now you will have to,RESEARCH them and find out,HOW to GIVE them a PROPER enclosure....

there will be turtle sections in reptile forums,also there may even be turtle dedicated forums out there...

that said,if you post up the EXACT type of turtle you will be caring for,then there may be people on here with hands on experience,or at least be able to,point you in the right direction

re mouth rot
i've only ever seen it in snakes,it was anything from dark brown/black in colour,to pale creamy/yellow colour...

it was a gunky,pastey looking substance,if you could post pictures,it would give us a better idea of what your dealing with

i used cotton buds,the ones that come with,little cotton buds,at both ends of a little plastic stick,like we would use to clean inside our ears...

just use a little water and try and clean/gently scrape,as much gunk out as you can..

then take him along to the vets,ask him to take swabs and culture them,this will indentify,the exact type of infection and the BEST course of treatment

i hope you get him back to full health,please let us know how it goes

cheers shaun

[EmbraceCalamity]

i'm NOT having a go,or being cheeky.....

imo you are doing the right/decent thing,in taking them into your care,where they will get the proper attention

now you will have to,RESEARCH them and find out,HOW to GIVE them a PROPER enclosure....Already did that before I even messaged the guy. If nothing else and he wouldn't give them to me, I wanted to be able to give him information on how to care for them better. You underestimate me. ;)
there will be turtle sections in reptile forums,also there may even be turtle dedicated forums out there...

that said,if you post up the EXACT type of turtle you will be caring for,then there may be people on here with hands on experience,or at least be able to,point you in the right directionRed-eared sliders.
re mouth rot
i've only ever seen it in snakes,it was anything from dark brown/black in colour,to pale creamy/yellow colour...

it was a gunky,pastey looking substance,if you could post pictures,it would give us a better idea of what your dealing with

i used cotton buds,the ones that come with,little cotton buds,at both ends of a little plastic stick,like we would use to clean inside our ears...

just use a little water and try and clean/gently scrape,as much gunk out as you can..

then take him along to the vets,ask him to take swabs and culture them,this will indentify,the exact type of infection and the BEST course of treatment

i hope you get him back to full health,please let us know how it goes

cheers shaunI'm gonna try to make an appointment with the vet on Monday. I've done some research on how to treat it, and I'll do more before I get it.

Don't worry. I've nursed much stranger things back to health. :p

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

Good on ya, for taking the initiative.

I had a similar situation when I was college. There was an adult CA kingsnake looking pretty rough in a 10-gal tank in one of the Bio labs; cage not cleaned out in forever, stuck shed, growth on tail, etc. It was at the end of the semester, and I just went to the dept head and said, "Hey, that kingsnake in there needs some special treatment and care. Is there any way I can take it home?" He said sure.

Long story short, the snake ended up at our local reptile rescue, and eventually got adopted out.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Good on ya, for taking the initiative.

I had a similar situation when I was college. There was an adult CA kingsnake looking pretty rough in a 10-gal tank in one of the Bio labs; cage not cleaned out in forever, stuck shed, growth on tail, etc. It was at the end of the semester, and I just went to the dept head and said, "Hey, that kingsnake in there needs some special treatment and care. Is there any way I can take it home?" He said sure.

Long story short, the snake ended up at our local reptile rescue, and eventually got adopted out.That's good. I hate when people see animals suffering and do nothing about it, as easy as that is to do for most people. It's easier to just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist, but that doesn't alleviate their suffering.

I'm glad the guy was so willing to agree to give them to me and said if there was any way he could help to let him know. I might have had to go Lois Griffin on him if he hadn't. ;)

~Maggot

[EmbraceCalamity]

Question for y'all: I'm really not at all familiar (or fully understand) the different kinds of lighting. As my geckos are nocturnal, I've never had to worry about UVB, but turtles need it plus a basking spot. I know some bulbs say they're full spectrum but aren't or whatever, so what should I get for lighting?

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

I would get a 5.0 ReptiSun (that's Zoo Med brand) tube florescent light strip. Those are the best ones. Have this on about 12 hrs a day.

*I do NOT suggest getting the compact florescent bulbs. There is much debate on whether or not these bulbs cause blindness in turtles & tortoises. Some keepers claim that they do. Conclusive results are pending, but most savvy hobbyists would say to avoid them just the same.

For heat, I would use any appropriately-wattage basking bulb or CHE (ceramic heat emitter). I like the CHEs because I can leave them on 24/7.

[Lankyrob]

I would get a 5.0 ReptiSun (that's Zoo Med brand) tube florescent light strip. Those are the best ones. Have this on about 12 hrs a day.

*I do NOT suggest getting the compact florescent bulbs. There is much debate on whether or not these bulbs cause blindness in turtles & tortoises. Some keepers claim that they do. Conclusive results are pending, but most savvy hobbyists would say to avoid them just the same.

For heat, I would use any appropriately-wattage basking bulb or CHE (ceramic heat emitter). I like the CHEs because I can leave them on 24/7.

What are your views on the mercury vapour bulbs that give heat and uv in same bulb? Apologies if this is what you mean by compact flourescent :)

[StudentoReptile]

I like MVBs, but I didn't suggest them in this case because I wasn't sure how large the tank was. They do not come in small wattage sizes, and a 100+ watt heat bulb (UV or not) may be too much for two hatchling RES. Of course, that is up to the keeper to decide with their particular set-up, using a temp gun.

[Lankyrob]

I like MVBs, but I didn't suggest them in this case because I wasn't sure how large the tank was. They do not come in small wattage sizes, and a 100+ watt heat bulb (UV or not) may be too much for two hatchling RES. Of course, that is up to the keeper to decide with their particular set-up, using a temp gun.

Cool, wasnt thinking it for this situation but we used them when we had lizards and really liked them but have heard some keeper really hate them.

[EmbraceCalamity]

I like MVBs, but I didn't suggest them in this case because I wasn't sure how large the tank was. They do not come in small wattage sizes, and a 100+ watt heat bulb (UV or not) may be too much for two hatchling RES. Of course, that is up to the keeper to decide with their particular set-up, using a temp gun.The setup is just a plastic tub that's maybe 6" deep. It's just temporary, of course. When I found out I'd be getting them, I just ran out to the dollar store and got a plastic tub, and cut out the inside of the lid and put wire in it. (Today is Sunday, so virtually nothing will be open until tomorrow, and I'm hoping to get them today.) I would have liked to have gotten something deeper, but they had only that and ones that were super deep, and I didn't want to risk that I wouldn't be able to keep it warm enough if it was too deep. Plus they're only maybe 1 1/2" long. As soon as I can, I'll transfer them to something bigger with more water and a filter.

Speaking of which, as I don't have a filter right now (and the water is going to be pretty shallow), would an air pump be of any benefit? I would get a 5.0 ReptiSun (that's Zoo Med brand) tube florescent light strip. Those are the best ones. Have this on about 12 hrs a day.

*I do NOT suggest getting the compact florescent bulbs. There is much debate on whether or not these bulbs cause blindness in turtles & tortoises. Some keepers claim that they do. Conclusive results are pending, but most savvy hobbyists would say to avoid them just the same.

For heat, I would use any appropriately-wattage basking bulb or CHE (ceramic heat emitter). I like the CHEs because I can leave them on 24/7.So there's no reliable bulb that does both? Not to be cheap or anything, but I'm really broke right now and still will need to pay for a vet visit, and I have no idea how I'm gonna do that. Anyone want to buy a 150w CHE that I'm not using? .___.

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

Mercury vapor bulbs are the only bulbs that reliably offer both heat and UVA/UVB. As I aluded to before, the issue lies in that because they are self-ballasted, they don't really come in small wattages, only offered in 100 and 160 watts. Obviously, they are also not cheap ($35-60, depending on the venue...usually cheaper online).

Also, because they are large, there lies an issue trying to heat/offer UV in small enclosures. If you raise the bulb too high to lower basking temps, there is reduced exposure to UV due to the greater distance. The effect is reversed when you lower the bulb: too intense UV beams, and too high basking temps.

If you are strapped for cash, I would go for a normal reptile-specific basking bulb ($10-12) for the time being until you can afford the better UV lighting. Priorities are proper temps and clean water. If you can, take them outside on a warm afternoon for about 20-30 mins to get some real sun until you can get the lights.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Mercury vapor bulbs are the only bulbs that reliably offer both heat and UVA/UVB. As I aluded to before, the issue lies in that because they are self-ballasted, they don't really come in small wattages, only offered in 100 and 160 watts. Obviously, they are also not cheap ($35-60, depending on the venue...usually cheaper online).

Also, because they are large, there lies an issue trying to heat/offer UV in small enclosures. If you raise the bulb too high to lower basking temps, there is reduced exposure to UV due to the greater distance. The effect is reversed when you lower the bulb: too intense UV beams, and too high basking temps.

If you are strapped for cash, I would go for a normal reptile-specific basking bulb ($10-12) for the time being until you can afford the better UV lighting. Priorities are proper temps and clean water. If you can, take them outside on a warm afternoon for about 20-30 mins to get some real sun until you can get the lights.It's way too cold here to take them outside, but they're going to be in my bathroom which gets a decent amount of sunlight. I'll try to see if I can move them into my room where they'll get even more (but I know not to put them in direct sunlight). There's no reptile place around here, so I'll have to order a UVB light. I should have a spare bulb though.

Would a small air pump be of any benefit in their water?

~Maggot

[Lankyrob]

Just as an example for the MVB's, i used one approx 18 incehes from the substrate and it provided a 130f hotspot :)

[EmbraceCalamity]

Current setup:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h74/MidnightRainbow/Turtlesetup.jpg

I know it's not perfect, but it was thrown together pretty quickly. Sufficient?

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

I'm not sure if you know this or not, but you mentioned a room with sunlight, so I'll just go ahead anyway: putting them next to a window doesn't cut it. Window glass is made to filter out UV rays. It'll just magnify the sun's heat coming in the window.
-------

An air pump will help the water from going stagnant, so it's beneficial to some degree. Even with a good filter, I would plan on doing partial water changes at least once a week.

[shaunyboy]

My question is: Does this sound like mouth rot? Or am I off base? How treatable is it that this stage? I told her that if the owner was unable or unwilling to treat it, that I'd be willing to take it (as a temporary measure, as I have 0 experience with turtles and don't really feel I could provide a proper enclosure for it).
~Maggot

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
you asked the question about mouth rot

you also said you had ZERO experience


i answered your mouth rot question and advised a course of action,i also suggested you do some research,since you declared you had no experience and felt you could not provide a proper enclosure
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

now you will have to,RESEARCH them and find out,HOW to GIVE them a PROPER enclosure....

re mouth rot
i've only ever seen it in snakes,it was anything from dark brown/black in colour,to pale creamy/yellow colour...

it was a gunky,pastey looking substance,if you could post pictures,it would give us a better idea of what your dealing with

i used cotton buds,the ones that come with,little cotton buds,at both ends of a little plastic stick,like we would use to clean inside our ears...

just use a little water and try and clean/gently scrape,as much gunk out as you can..

then take him along to the vets,ask him to take swabs and culture them,this will indentify,the exact type of infection and the BEST course of treatment
cheers shaun

you then declared you had already done research,in order for the guy to give them to you,surely part of that research would cover proper enclosures ?

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Already did that before I even messaged the guy. If nothing else and he wouldn't give them to me, I wanted to be able to give him information on how to care for them better. You underestimate me. ;)
Red-eared sliders.
I'm gonna try to make an appointment with the vet on Monday. I've done some research on how to treat it, and I'll do more before I get it.

Don't worry. I've nursed much stranger things back to health. :p

~Maggot

i answered both YOUR queries from your first post,questions you appear to already have the answers for.....

i answered because you asked,NOT because i underestimated you in any way

re treatment
imo you would be better waiting on a vet confirming that its mouth rot,before doing anything other than a light/gentle clean of the gunky stuff

sorry i don't understant why you randomly wrote.....

Red-Eared Sliders,before the part about making a vet appointment ?

re don't worry/strange things
if you already have experience treating reptiles,then you should find it simple enough to clear the mouth rot up,don't worry if it seems to take a few weeks,i've found reptiles heal a lot slower than most animals/humans

re mouth rot thread
doing a progression thread of pictures during treatment,would give others an idea of how to treat mouth rot,should their reptile get it,(thats if it won't stress the turtle,or take up too much time)

i hope everything goes well with the turtles,please let us know how it goes

cheers shaun

[EmbraceCalamity]

So I picked them up. One won't open its eyes and is very lethargic, though there doesn't appear to me any obvious damage to it. The other's mouth seems to have cleared up some (the water had been changed thank god), but it's got a hard growth on the side of its head and part of its lower jaw is missing. It's very active though. So now I have no idea what's wrong with these guys. =/I'm not sure if you know this or not, but you mentioned a room with sunlight, so I'll just go ahead anyway: putting them next to a window doesn't cut it. Window glass is made to filter out UV rays. It'll just magnify the sun's heat coming in the window.Okay, thanks for letting me know. I wasn't talking about that being enough though. I know they'll still need UVB. I was just saying that maybe that would help a little until I can get a UVB.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
you asked the question about mouth rot

you also said you had ZERO experience


i answered your mouth rot question and advised a course of action,i also suggested you do some research,since you declared you had no experience and felt you could not provide a proper enclosure...Yes? I know. I was there for this conversation. And I meant long-term, not immediately. you then declared you had already done research,in order for the guy to give them to you,surely part of that research would cover proper enclosures ?I wasn't saying I didn't know how to provide a proper enclosure. But full grown turtles require huge enclosures, which I know I won't be able to provide down the road.
i answered both YOUR queries from your first post,questions you appear to already have the answers for.....

i answered because you asked,NOT because i underestimated you in any wayDude, I was just kidding, hence the ":p". Calm down.
re treatment
imo you would be better waiting on a vet confirming that its mouth rot,before doing anything other than a light/gentle clean of the gunky stuff

sorry i don't understant why you randomly wrote.....

Red-Eared Sliders,before the part about making a vet appointment ?Because you mentioned I could get better advice if I put up the exact kind of turtle it was?

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

Post some pics of these guys. I'm especially curious about the missing jaw. That definitely sounds serious!

[EmbraceCalamity]

Post some pics of these guys. I'm especially curious about the missing jaw. That definitely sounds serious!http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h74/MidnightRainbow/Turtle3.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h74/MidnightRainbow/Turtle1.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h74/MidnightRainbow/Turtle2.jpg

Sorry they're crap pics, but in the first one I circled the growth. It's hard and pale colored.

~Maggot

[EmbraceCalamity]

Any ideas how it would have lost the part of its jaw?

~Maggot

[Gungirl]

Oh wow.. they are tiny. Could the missing jaw piece be a defect it was hatched with? I can't tell in the pic how the skin looks.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Oh wow.. they are tiny. Could the missing jaw piece be a defect it was hatched with? I can't tell in the pic how the skin looks.He's actually the larger of the two. I just looked at him and the skin looks normal. There's no blood or scabbing or anything. So I guess it's possible it's just a birth defect.

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

Yeah...not sure anything could be done about that. Does he eat okay?

[EmbraceCalamity]

Yeah...not sure anything could be done about that. Does he eat okay?I dunno. Only had them for a night, and neither have eaten yet. Neither of them will really open their eyes at all. =/

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

Get some of that turtle eye rinse from Exo Terra. It actually works fairly well.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Get some of that turtle eye rinse from Exo Terra. It actually works fairly well.Oh, never heard of that. I'll definitely have to get some. I'll have to order it online though, so it won't be here for a few days. =/

~Maggot

[EmbraceCalamity]

Would either of these work?

HerpSupplies.com - Turtle Eye Drops - Nature Zone - Turtle Eye Drops - Nature Zone* Turtle Eye Drops*is a gentle ophthal... (http://www.herpsupplies.com/product.cfm?groupid=14306&id=SNZ59211)
HerpSupplies.com - Turtle Eye Drops - ZooMed - Turtle Eye Drops - ZooMed* Opens and cleans inflamed turtle eyes. * Use a... (http://www.herpsupplies.com/product.cfm?groupid=14307&id=SZMMD30)

Just because I get a discount on my next order, and they don't have the Exo Terra ones. :p But if these don't work just as well, I'll find the Exo Terra ones elsewhere.

EDIT: HerpSupplies.com - ReptiSun 10.0 Mini - ZooMed - ReptiSun 10.0 Mini / 13 Watt - ZooMedReptiSun® 10.0 Mini is Perfect f... (http://www.herpsupplies.com/product.cfm?groupid=19168&id=SZMFSC10M)
That says it gives off UVA and UVB. I'm currently using a low watt heat bulb right now (50, I think?) and the basking temps are good. 1) Can I use this instead? 2) If I can, will this be strong enough?

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

Zoo Med is a good brand. I woudl try those.
-----------
In that second link, is a compact flourescent bulb. That is one of the ones I would suggest not using. Again, there has been some cases of those types of bulbs causing blindness in some herps. Aquatic turtles are one group. It is not entirely conclusive what the issue is: whether it was just a batch of lemons, poor design, a particular brand, keeper error in mounting the lights incorrectly (they should be mounted horizontally, NOT straight down in a dome fixture).

But in the same token, no one has had issues using the old school tube flourescent bulbs which is why I and many others stick to those.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Zoo Med is a good brand. I woudl try those.
-----------
In that second link, is a compact flourescent bulb. That is one of the ones I would suggest not using. Again, there has been some cases of those types of bulbs causing blindness in some herps. Aquatic turtles are one group. It is not entirely conclusive what the issue is: whether it was just a batch of lemons, poor design, a particular brand, keeper error in mounting the lights incorrectly (they should be mounted horizontally, NOT straight down in a dome fixture).

But in the same token, no one has had issues using the old school tube flourescent bulbs which is why I and many others stick to those.I need to buy a thingywhosit for it, so which should I get?
HerpSupplies.com - Lighting - Fixtures - Fluorescent - Light Fixtures that hold Fluorescent(tube)Bulbs. Since Fluorescent bulbs do not produce sufficient heat, these fixtures are primarily used for UVB/UVA requirements. The various "T" sizes represen (http://www.herpsupplies.com/subcategory.cfm?id=1&sub=52)
Or could I get them cheaper at WalMart or something?

And which bulb would you recommend?
HerpSupplies.com - Lighting - Bulbs - Fluorescent Bulbs - The most important feature of a Fluorescent bulb for reptiles is the ability to emit sufficient UVB light, a component of Sunlight. For Tropical Reptiles , 5.0 bulbs are adequate. For Desert R (http://www.herpsupplies.com/subcategory.cfm?id=11&sub=51)

Sorry for asking you all these questions, but I want to make sure that I do everything right so these guys have the best chance at becoming healthy again. And I really appreciate your help.

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

You should be able to get a flourescent fixture at walmart, Lowes, Home Depot. The bulb could be gotten online.

I would suggest a 5.0 Reptisun (Zoo Med brand) tube flourescent (not compact florescent). They come in the following standard sizes: 18", 24", 36" and 48." Whichever size would go across that tub of yours, get that and then go out and find a fixture to fit it.

[EmbraceCalamity]

You should be able to get a flourescent fixture at walmart, Lowes, Home Depot. The bulb could be gotten online.

I would suggest a 5.0 Reptisun (Zoo Med brand) tube flourescent (not compact florescent). They come in the following standard sizes: 18", 24", 36" and 48." Whichever size would go across that tub of yours, get that and then go out and find a fixture to fit it.Okay, I think final question: How far away from them does it have to be so I don't have to worry about it burning them? Or does it not emit much heat? 'Cause it's a shallow tub, so it would only be maybe 4" from them if I set it right on top. Otherwise I have no clue how I'd mount it up higher. =/

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

The florescent light can be anywhere from 6-12" anyway. Not a real danger there, those tube bulbs dont emit hardly any heat.

The basking bulb you will need a thermometer or temp gun (something every reptile keeper should have ;) ) to determine how far to position it. I cannot answer that for you.

[EmbraceCalamity]

The florescent light can be anywhere from 6-12" anyway. Not a real danger there, those tube bulbs dont emit hardly any heat.

The basking bulb you will need a thermometer or temp gun (something every reptile keeper should have ;) ) to determine how far to position it. I cannot answer that for you.Basking bulb is already set up and monitored with a digital thermometer. I'm just not sure what to do with the fluorescent bulb. I have no idea how I'm gonna mount it above the tub. =/

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

You could hang it from the ceiling. You could just lay it across the tub.

[EmbraceCalamity]

It'll only be 5" away from them if I set it across the tub. =/

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

That should be okay.

[EmbraceCalamity]

That should be okay.It won't be too bright? I don't want to hurt their eyes.

As an update, the one with the missing lower jaw is doing fairly well and is somewhat active. The other one, upon closer inspection, is missing a toe and part of its tail (which definitely isn't a birth defect, as I can see it's attempting to heal). It just opened its eyes today finally, and the eye drops should be here tomorrow or the day after. Still, it's more active than before, when I often couldn't tell if it was dead or not. Neither seems very interested in eating, but I've been taking little bits of the food I got with them, softening them, and just setting them in their mouths. I found a mini filter, so I'll order that tonight. Tomorrow I'll go to Lowe's and see if I can find a hood for the light.

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

Just to confirm: would the light be 5" from the absolute bottom of the tub, or 5" from the highest point the turtles could access in the tub?

If it is the former, then yeah, that would be too bright! If the latter, then I think it would be fine. You could get a screen top and just rest it on top of the tub and put the light strip on that to riase it a little.

Good that they're getting active. Give them time. What's the basking temps?

[EmbraceCalamity]

Just to confirm: would the light be 5" from the absolute bottom of the tub, or 5" from the highest point the turtles could access in the tub?

If it is the former, then yeah, that would be too bright! If the latter, then I think it would be fine. You could get a screen top and just rest it on top of the tub and put the light strip on that to riase it a little.

Good that they're getting active. Give them time. What's the basking temps?From the highest point. That's a good idea though. I can put something on the sides of the tub to raise the light up higher. Didn't even occur to me. :p

Well I read basking temps should be high 80's to low 90's, so they stay in that range - usually a little warmer in the afternoon (about 90) and cooler in the morning and evening (86-87). They spend a decent amount of time basking an inch or two from the hottest spot, so they appear to be content with the temps.

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

Yeah, you could go a tad higher if you wanted. I shoot for 95-100'F for most aquatic turtles, and thats the actual basking surface, not ambient temps (just to be clear).

But again, let the turtles show you. If they're basking a LOT, they could probably be a little warmer. If they avoid the lamp, its probably too hot.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Yeah, you could go a tad higher if you wanted. I shoot for 95-100'F for most aquatic turtles, and thats the actual basking surface, not ambient temps (just to be clear).Okay, I'll try it. I was just concerned with it being too warm as the one hadn't opened its eyes, so I wasn't positive it'd be able to thermoregulate really effectively if it got too hot.

Oh, also, the hard growth on the one is gone. It had softened and mostly come off on its own, and it came off the rest of the way when the turtle rubbed its head. There's a bit of a dip there, but no bleeding or pus, and it doesn't appear to be bothered.

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

Its amazing what just a few days of proper care will do.

[exoticvirus]

that sounds like the same condition that killed my friend's sulcata tortoise :(

[EmbraceCalamity]

Its amazing what just a few days of proper care will do.Yeah. I've done this a bunch of times with different animals, but each one is different and I never know what to expect, so I just do my best and hope for the best. Hopefully they'll continue to improve.that sounds like the same condition that killed my friend's sulcata tortoise :(Yes, mouth rot can be fatal if it's allowed to develop and then ignored instead of treated.

~Maggot

[EmbraceCalamity]

Update:

The one with the missing lower jaw is doing well. I'm still feeding it by hand, but it appears to be pretty active and getting much healthier. There's a UVB light, basking spot, filter, heater, and eye drops. The smaller one with the missing toe, half its tail missing, and soft shell just passed away. I ran into the person who had only just acquired them and I took them from (not the original owner), and apparently all of the other babies that the original owner had died. So this last one is the only one left. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this one will make it.

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

That's good. As long as he is eating well, eye remain clear and has no soft shell, it should only get better from here on out. Sorry for the loss of the other one, but kudos for saving at least one.

[EmbraceCalamity]

That's good. As long as he is eating well, eye remain clear and has no soft shell, it should only get better from here on out. Sorry for the loss of the other one, but kudos for saving at least one.I actually ran into the original owner today. She apparently had two different groups in two different rooms, and the ones in one room died while the others didn't. She argued that the reason group 1 died is because people were (allegedly) touching the tarantulas also in that room and then touching the turtles. I told her that they had severe calcium and vitamin A deficiencies and needed UVB lights, and that, while they may have come to her unhealthy (which they probably did, given the missing body parts), they likely would have made it with proper care. But she continued to insist that it was because people were (allegedly) touching both. Apparently that's much more likely than they came unwell and she failed to provide any proper care, so they died.

Also, she says she ordered them as red-eared sliders, but there's no red on their ears, which she said is because they're babies. I did a quick Google search before and found babies with red on their ears. But could they be RES without the red?

~Maggot

[Zoo Nanny]

Keeping my fingers crossed for you that this one makes it. It's a wonderful thing you have done to try to save these little ones.

[StudentoReptile]

Some RES hatchlings don't have a lot of red, but your pics on page 2 weren't that great. I would want to see some better photos. They could be yellow-bellied sliders, or some type of river cooter.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Some RES hatchlings don't have a lot of red, but your pics on page 2 weren't that great. I would want to see some better photos. They could be yellow-bellied sliders, or some type of river cooter.Yeah, unfortunately, the camera on my phone is all I have right now. I'll be getting a camera for Christmas, though, so I can post better pics then. I'd definitely like to have him/her positively IDed, since I'm just not very good at turtle identification.Keeping my fingers crossed for you that this one makes it. It's a wonderful thing you have done to try to save these little ones.Thank you. :)

~Maggot

[Aaron_S]

Look for the yellow belly and see if they match up. They look really similar to red ears.

Also, I would change your enclosure. I would remove the whole gravel pit thing and just place rocks like you've done. I find most turtles will spend their time in water or basking. So I'd go a couple rocks for basking, maybe the big one not under the light but out of the water. It'll give the guy more room to swim as he grows.

[beardeds4life]

I agree. That is sad that one passed away. From the sounds of it the other one seems like there is a good chance it could make it. If you do have it as it gets bigger I would recommend buying a christmas tree bin. Depending on the size of it most likely you would be able to use it the life of the turtle. It will be hard to find them anytime except christmas though.