Please help... I want to understand.

[Sophia'sSophia]

Hello everyone, thanks for taking the time to read this.
I have a soft spot for water snakes, so when I saw that a yellow bellied one was being terribly abused, I had to help... The owner wouldnt alter the cage requirements well enough to actually help the animal, so I ended up adopting it. However, I am not too experienced with snake illnesses, and would really appreciate your help!

I'd simply like to hear what you see as being wrong with the animal... I know its had a few TERRIBLE sheds, but Im worried about mites and scale rot.
Can you give me any advice? Or potential illnesses this may be?

(Trying to attach photos... might not have worked.)

[EmbraceCalamity]

VET.

~Maggot

[Sophia'sSophia]

VET.

~Maggot

Lol why didn't I think of that?

[Jay]

Oh God why would you take that home. Hopefully you did not pay, as you could have just killed another snake. Yes vet ASAP.

[Sophia'sSophia]

Oh God why would you take that home. Hopefully you did not pay, as you could have just killed another snake. Yes vet ASAP.

The fool who had it was dead set on killing it, kept it in 5 gallons of water continuously. Taking it away from him was the first step in letting it live. Hopefully the vet doesn't prefer to euthanize, but bah, we will see.

[Gungirl]

Yes Vet asap.. looks like it is covered in water blisters and rotten scales.

[Jay]

The fool who had it was dead set on killing it, kept it in 5 gallons of water continuously. Taking it away from him was the first step in letting it live. Hopefully the vet doesn't prefer to euthanize, but bah, we will see.

Yes, but now he can get another....

[EmbraceCalamity]

Yes, but now he can get another....Let's hope he won't. I would have taken the snake too, but it would have gone straight to the vet.

~Maggot

[infernalis]

Agreed with all above.

I wish they never got called "water snakes" as they are only semi aquatic.

The term "water snake" confuses people into thinking they live in the water. They don't.... they only feed in the water.

[Sophia'sSophia]

Same here, Infernalis...

And don't worry, folks. He decided he doesn't want anymore 'aquatic' pets. (Yes, I know, I told him its not aquatic a dozen times... very thick skull on this one.)

I figure, until I can get it to the vet, a mild antiseptic bath should be a start.

[lady_bug87]

wow. I have never seen anything like that before.

[Gungirl]

honestly.. I wouldn't soak the snake in anything or put anything on it. I would simply give it a dry warm home and go see the vet ASAP.

[alessia55]

Wow, poor thing... That's awful. It definitely needs veterinary care ASAP. Please keep us updated.

[Sophia'sSophia]

In case anyone was wondering:
This is the result of two months of soaking in water.

I just can not believe anyone would do that...

[jaleely]

omg that was horrible when i saw that photo of it's head i actually said OMG outloud.

Rotten scales, water blisters, gah it almost looks like tics.

Maybe a DABBING of bentadine solution, or providine (not iodine). Let the thing dry out. It's probably going to need antibiotics.

Blarg : (

[Sophia'sSophia]

UPDATE
15 hours later, and the obscene yellow welts have both lessened in colour, and deflated. The yellow mask of swollen snake that covered it's face has shrunk down. All yellow areas are now a grey.

A closer inspection showed that none of the scales are cracked, loose, or in any other state of disrepair other than the swelling.

[infernalis]

Thank you for the update.

[Gungirl]

That is great! Keep up the good work and hopefully the little guy will make a full recovery.

[Kavyrie]

Glad to hear that its doing a bit better already!

[Snakeman8]

i would report him to the humane society, i hate people that are like that.

[KORBIN5895]

I was going to say put it out of its misery bit those second pics look much better.

[Nobodyspecial]

That's just terrible... Glad to hear he's doing better, definatly keep us updated! And do me a favor and hit the guy you took him from for me. As hard as you can.

[iBaman]

That's just terrible... Glad to hear he's doing better, definatly keep us updated! And do me a favor and hit the guy you took him from for me. As hard as you can.

...with a large truck.

[Sophia'sSophia]

Thank you, everyone, for the well-wishes.
And the fury... I'm with you in that. Somehow all this fellow's other snakes are perfectly fine. I don't understand how you could watch a creature develop SO MANY problems without thinking to change things. What a complete dolt.

[jaleely]

Were you able to call a vet, or perhaps take it in to one, yet? poor thing, i really hope it heals fast. I've never had to deal with anything like that. : (

[Sophia'sSophia]

No I haven't, unfortunately.
I think I will have the time to after Friday.

Day Three UPDATE:
It's color hasn't changed much since yesterday, still grey spotted.
It does seem much more active today, not sure what to make of that.
Picture taken after medicating, hence the slickness.

[Sophia'sSophia]

Oh my word look what one shed can do!
Some of it is still coming off the fellow's head, but this progress has me so amazed I had to snap a few photos.

[Lankyrob]

Can barely believe thats the same snake!! Just goes to show a reptiles healing powers with the right conditions :)

[jaleely]

i'm so glad it shed!
what meds did you wind up giving it/putting on it?
did it get all of the shed off?

[alessia55]

What a transformation! Looks like he has great potential for a full recovery. Keep us updated

[Will0W783]

Looks like the water snake is starting to recover. It's horrifying what some people will do to an animal. A little over a year ago, I took a western diamondback rattlesnake from my idiot cousin who was keeping her on filthy, damp playground sand. This poor girl had THE WORST case of belly scute rot I've ever seen....huge welts, pussing sores, blood all over. I gave her 5 minute soaks in a mixture of 1:1:1 betadine + hydrogen peroxide + warm water. I would do that every other day and kept her on clean, white butcher paper. It took a good 2-3 months, but she healed up beautifully. Now that your Nerodia has shed and the welts are deflating, I would probably recommend a similar treatment schedule, along with a vet visit. In my case, I couldn't go to the vet because none around me will see hots. I had to treat her at home.

[Sophia'sSophia]

i'm so glad it shed!
what meds did you wind up giving it/putting on it?
did it get all of the shed off?

A betadine rinse and some polysporin.
And it seems to have some shed still stuck on it's head, anyone care to give some tips on removing that? It has been constantly rubbing it's head on it's branches and cage furnishings, though, so perhaps it will succeed on it's own.

Not sure if I said... But none of my snakes have been sick before, so all of this, stuck shed included, is quite new to me, and thus any suggestions would be welcome.

[Sophia'sSophia]

....I gave her 5 minute soaks in a mixture of 1:1:1 betadine + hydrogen peroxide + warm water. I would do that every other day and kept her on clean, white butcher paper. It took a good 2-3 months, but she healed up beautifully...

Brilliant! Thank you, I did not know Hydrogen peroxide was snake-safe. :)

As for the vet, I still plan on making calls, but I hope this rate of recovery makes that unnecessary.

[Will0W783]

It might Sophia, but if you can get to a vet, it's always better until you know what you're doing with snake illnesses. I'm fortunate to have an awesome vet that teaches me what to do each time I have a sick animal. Over the years of going to him, minor snake issues have become things I can easily treat at home. I stock my own antibiotics. Tractor Supply Company sells something called "Tylan", which is given via intramuscular injection to snakes at a dose of 50mg/kg. It works wonders for respiratory and skin infections...it is given once every 2 days for 6 injections, although I've seen full recovery in 2-3 doses. I order a box of insulin needles from the vet, stock my own drugs and treat most things at home.

I strongly feel that learning to treat most common illnesses yourself can make you a much better snake keeper, as well as keep your wallet from getting too thin! Another good resource is the book "What's Wrong with My Snake?" by Dr. John Rossi. It has dosage charts for common snake drugs, what they're used for, contraindications, etc. as well as chapters on common snake ailments...great reference for any keeper!

[jaleely]

that's perfect willow!

i almost put this in my last post, but was hoping he got it off on his own. If you are able to handle him, since he's had such a bad experience with water i would not recommend soaking to get the stuck shed off.
Not sure about the pillowcase method either unless you do it for a short time, maybe with some medication rubbed on him first (anyone?)

Pillowcase: Take a damp pillow case, maybe with a damp rough washcloth inside as well, and put the snake in. Tie the top so he can't get out. Put him in a safe place for about an hour or so, making sure he doesn't get too hot or too cold. He will swirl around in there and rub off the shed.

The shed maybe sticking because of the blisters around his face...it may be better for you to hold him, and take a moist rough washcloth and gently rub his face. I don't know how fesable it is for this particular snake since that could damage or open sores that are already there. It's really something i'd have to see in person to determine.

You'll have to play it by ear as to what you think is safer for him at this time.
Keep medicating (good choices, btw!) and keep infection out. This shed is going to help so much!

Has he eaten?

[Will0W783]

Melissa,

I wouldn't rub a snake's face to remove shed if it has sores...Miss Buzztail's sores were so delicate that just her shedding herself opened them all up the first time she shed for me. It looked something was murdered in her cage...blood and pus everywhere.... *shudders*

I would say she should stick with providing a clean, dry sterile cage environment and apply topical antibiotics or a sterilizing soak like I described, at least until the sores have calmed down.

I still think a herp vet is in order to make sure there isn't internal damage or other underlying issues that could contribute to the sores. Sometimes really bad skin infections can get into the blood stream and turn the snake septic.

[jaleely]

Yeah willow, that's why was loathe to say it, but i figured that sophia has been doing well so far, so could judge if that would be appropriate, so i'd leave it up to her...i hate to see the little guy having to rub his head : (

What i meant to say was rubbing if there was a particular spot that needed special attention and help to get it off, so the rest would come off.

I don't think she is going to take it to the vet either. But, i agree with your advice on that.
I also thought we were suggesting no soak since the sores were from water...LOL
i'm just throwing stuff out that i'm hoping can be adjusted to this poor thing's conditions. It's really hard to tell on the face if it's the shed, or if there are more blisters on the face than there were on the rest of the body.

And willow....just EW, poor miss buzztail! : (
I guess that's why i wanted attention to this one right away, i don't want him rubbing his face into a big sore.
but, you are probably right about taking the gentle route. I have a habit of being too hands on. lol i do.

[Will0W783]

I am not suggesting prolonged soaks...a quick 3-5 minute dip in the betadine/peroxide/water mixture will help to kill any bacteria present in the sores. It's crucial when doing such a treatment to keep the animal on dry, clean white paper (I use non-waxed butcher paper) to prevent reinfection and irritation and to keep the snake dry. I'd worry more about an ointment or cream-type antibiotic because it could block up skin pores that need to breathe in order to help clear the mess.

I'm pretty hands-on too, Melissa. It was terribly hard to see Miss Buzztail the way she came to me, because there isn't much one can do with a snake as terrified and deadly as she was. She was very defensive and scared and in pain, so she was unpredictable. Topical or injected antibiotics were very dangerous; the scale rot soak was the safest route as we bought a 4-foot tall garbage pail to set it up in. I sterilized the container with bleach after each use. There was no comforting her though, and I'm sure she was just as upset about the soaks as she was about the abuse she got beforehand..I'm sure it hurt. But it cleared up her scale rot very rapidly, and she had surprisingly little scarring.

I saw the cages my idiot cousin keeps his stuff in not too long ago when my dad and I went to his daughter's birthday party.....ball pythons on filthy crushed walnut, a king cobra wallowing in his own shed, a Gaboon viper in a cage too small for her to stretch out, and three wild-caught, sickly ball pythons on filthy, damp sand. I screamed at him for a good half hour and asked him if he'd learned anything from the poor rattler. I tried to get him to give me the sick balls, but he wanted money for them....scumbag! Miss Buzztail had been on playground sand, which, judging from what she came in, was also allowed to be damp and filthy.

So yes, damp conditions can cause scale rot and sores, but the sterile dip can still help them. I would think this is the best option if she won't go to a vet. I dont' know though...the head on that water snake looks awful, poor poor thing. :(

[Sophia'sSophia]

Melissa,

I wouldn't rub a snake's face to remove shed if it has sores...Miss Buzztail's sores were so delicate that just her shedding herself opened them all up the first time she shed for me. It looked something was murdered in her cage...blood and pus everywhere.... *shudders*

I would say she should stick with providing a clean, dry sterile cage environment and apply topical antibiotics or a sterilizing soak like I described, at least until the sores have calmed down.

I still think a herp vet is in order to make sure there isn't internal damage or other underlying issues that could contribute to the sores. Sometimes really bad skin infections can get into the blood stream and turn the snake septic.

^This. The stuck shed is almost gone, now, with the exception of a small unhealthy looking area on the very top of it's head, which I am hesitant to agitate. I have begun looking for a vet, but so far the vets I have contacted do not accept reptiles. However the search is not yet over, wish me luck.

And about the pillowcase and the soaking.. the pillowcase seems too rough a method, where as the fellow doesn't seem disinclined to soaking, so I have been choosing the latter. Well, that and the soars are not wet and raised any longer, but instead more like discolored scales. (I will certainly remember the suggestion tho, thank you for it!)

-takes Willows suggestion- Thank you. I have only used the cream twice, the short soaks, dryness, and time seem to be the largest factors of healing so far.

"I saw the cages my idiot cousin keeps his stuff in not too long ago when my dad and I went to his daughter's birthday party.....ball pythons on filthy crushed walnut, a king cobra wallowing in his own shed, a Gaboon viper in a cage too small for her to stretch out, and three wild-caught, sickly ball pythons on filthy, damp sand." What compels these people???

Ah one last thing. I have tried to feed the creature some salmon and guppy, but it has unfortunately not accepted any food yet.

[Will0W783]

What compels them? I do not know...I think some people like the idea of having animals, especially exotics like snakes, but lack the basic intelligence and the finances to give them proper care. It boils down to this: don't have more animals than you can properly care for. If that means you have 2, or 20, or 200....whatever the limit of YOUR personal time and finances are should be it. But unfortunately this isn't often the case....and you end up with snakes like your water snake, or Miss Buzztail, or the new rattler I took in last night...it breaks my heart to see.

I am glad the betadine/peroxide/water soaks are working well...they're great! It was my old childhood doctor who actually gave me the idea. I had an infection under a fingernail once, and I didn't want to take oral antibiotics, so he told me to soak my finger in that mixture 2-3 times a day for 2 weeks. It cleared it right up! Snakes have a slower metabolic rate, so I dialed it down to once every day or two, and voila...it seems to work.

As for food...give him time to heal. It would not surprise me if he is feeling too miserable to eat yet. You can try putting a few live feeder fish (Rosies are the best, as goldfish can have toxins in them), and see if he goes for the live food. Otherwise, try rodents. Water snakes eat a variety of foods- amphibians, fish, rodents, in the wild. Good luck!

[Sophia'sSophia]

As for food...give him time to heal. It would not surprise me if he is feeling too miserable to eat yet. You can try putting a few live feeder fish (Rosies are the best, as goldfish can have toxins in them), and see if he goes for the live food. Otherwise, try rodents. Water snakes eat a variety of foods- amphibians, fish, rodents, in the wild. Good luck!

When you say rosies, do you mean Rosy Reds? Unfortunately less known than goldfish, but they too contain thiaminase... I used to keep a ribbon on those before I found out. I haven't actually SEEN the effects of rosy thiaminase, thankfully, but it scared me none the less. Just tryin' to spread the knowledge I found so shocking. (The descriptions of the effects are horrific... seizures, paralysis come to mind.)

He seemed pretty disinterested in the guppy I tempted him with... I'm going to ask his previous "care taker" what he would feed him next chance I get.

[Wyldrose]

It's amazing how much he's changed in a short time. Good luck with him! So glad you took him in.

[Sophia'sSophia]

Thanks Wyldrose :)

UPDATE:

One more shed today reveals the little fellows eyes! Up until now, there was too much swelling and old scales, and his irises couldn't be seen in their entirety. The shed has also removed the pronounced whitish-grey scales, and a strange black streak that appeared a few days ago. It was about 2 centimeters thick, and stretched the length of the back, no idea where it came from.

I am a bit concerned about the pinkness of it's nose, but I am content with waiting and bringing hir to the vet on Tuesday. (A local herp society was able to suggest the vet.)

It also hasn't eaten... I've been considered bringing food to the vet Tuesday and asking for a force-feeding demonstration, does anyone think that's a good idea?

[EmbraceCalamity]

Thanks Wyldrose :)

UPDATE:

One more shed today reveals the little fellows eyes! Up until now, there was too much swelling and old scales, and his irises couldn't be seen in their entirety. The shed has also removed the pronounced whitish-grey scales, and a strange black streak that appeared a few days ago. It was about 2 centimeters thick, and stretched the length of the back, no idea where it came from.

I am a bit concerned about the pinkness of it's nose, but I am content with waiting and bringing hir to the vet on Tuesday. (A local herp society was able to suggest the vet.)

It also hasn't eaten... I've been considered bringing food to the vet Tuesday and asking for a force-feeding demonstration, does anyone think that's a good idea?Glad she's doing better!

I personally don't think a forcefeeding is necessary yet. See what your vet says about that. I guess you could take the food in case he/she feels it's necessary. Certainly couldn't hurt to take it just in case.

~Maggot

[Will0W783]

I'm so glad to see she's doing better...what a change! I love the coloration...that is one gorgeous little water snake. Hopefully he/she keeps recovering as wonderfully for you.

[infernalis]

have you tried live minnows in the water bowl yet??

[Sophia'sSophia]

I tried it once, couldn't hurt to try it again.
I'll put a few guppies in it tonight, here's hopin' s/he goes for 'em.
Thanks for the suggestion!

[Sophia'sSophia]

I'm going to go ahead and declare this little guy (Mir, named it) a successful rescue.
Came away from the vets -without- a prescription.

Still going to work on the feeding, but overall: Success!

[Kavyrie]

So glad to see how far the little guy came in such a short time. Good luck getting him to eat, sounds like the last milestone!

[Sophia'sSophia]

Thank you!

[JDherp]

kudos to you, your an amazing person :) amazing progress. it gets me upset when people dont care to research before or even after buying a reptile (or any animal) before just saying "oh a water snake must only live in water" like do you not care to give proper husbandry to the animal you are taking care of why buy it? an example i went to a reptile expo last month and there was a group there who rescued neglected reptiles, they had a female (females get larger than males) that was left in a 5 gallon pale of water her whole life, her shell was so deformed she can never swim again. it was so sad.

[Sophia'sSophia]

That's atrocious! I'm so glad a rescue group took it in. Too often 'release or kill' is the only choices considered.

Oh and little update: Minnows swimming in a bowl with 2inch cuts of salmon has worked, s/he eats. ^__^

[infernalis]

This is good to read... Thanks for the updates.

[EmbraceCalamity]

You should post pics again soon! :D

~Maggot

[Revenant]

That first photo of the head made me cringe in horror. Good work, glad he's eating.

[shaunyboy]

sorry for being a bit late in noticing this thread

i have pm'd you an alternative method,that works well with water blisters

cheers shaun

[Wyldrose]

Thanks for the update :) So glad Mir is eating!

[Sophia'sSophia]

Thanks again everyone, for the help and well-wishes <3

Good idea, Maggot!
Here's how s/he looked today (just before hir bathtime):

[shaunyboy]

great work getting that guy back to full health

cheers shaun

[Little Wise Owl]

What a wonderful outcome! It looks great now :)

[brylecc1989]

Sophia is AWESOME!!!

[Akuma223]

She looks positively amazing. You have done an amazing job with her, I can wait until I can find a baby water snake in spring.

[EmbraceCalamity]

What a beautiful snake! I love seeing the few good outcomes of cases like these. :D What's her setup like? Out of simple curiosity.

~Maggot

[Gungirl]

You have done a great job, I really didn't have a lot of hope for this little one when you first posted pictures. I am happy that you where able to save it.

[lady_bug87]

Its such a huge change between page one and page 5. Awesome work!

[Wyldrose]

Mir looks like a different snake! You did an amazing job! I am so glad he found his way to you.

[Sophia'sSophia]

Thanks guys! :D

Honestly I had a couple days worth of dreadish doubt too, Kat. Was always because Mir was just about to shed though, looking extra terrible. Kept throwing me off lol

And to answer Maggot: The set up is verrrry simple.
Paper towel for substrate, cardboard hide, small branch, UTH, some clay bricks, and a waterbowl. The only thing that really changed is the waterbowl. I started without one (bringing hir out to drink), then a bowl too small to fully contain hir (reaaalllly didnt want hir soaking), and now a fairly good sized one.

Happy Holidays, guys!

[EmbraceCalamity]

Thanks guys! :D

Honestly I had a couple days worth of dreadish doubt too, Kat. Was always because Mir was just about to shed though, looking extra terrible. Kept throwing me off lol

And to answer Maggot: The set up is verrrry simple.
Paper towel for substrate, cardboard hide, small branch, UTH, some clay bricks, and a waterbowl. The only thing that really changed is the waterbowl. I started without one (bringing hir out to drink), then a bowl too small to fully contain hir (reaaalllly didnt want hir soaking), and now a fairly good sized one.

Happy Holidays, guys!Oohhh, okay. I was thinking a semi-aquatic setup like a turtle or something.

~Maggot

[Sophia'sSophia]

Oh nah, that's actually a somewhat hazardous set up for water snakes. Pretty much puts them at risk for the same problems Mir had, along with the potential for RI. Unfortunate, what with that style being quite the eye-catcher.

They need much more dry land than they do water. A typical terrestrial set up with an over-sized waterbowl fits them best imo.
I'm sure if the set up was big enough a semi-aquatic could be safe though, really it depends upon how much dry land is provided.

[infernalis]

Oh nah, that's actually a somewhat hazardous set up for water snakes. Pretty much puts them at risk for the same problems Mir had, along with the potential for RI. Unfortunate, what with that style being quite the eye-catcher.

They need much more dry land than they do water. A typical terrestrial set up with an over-sized waterbowl fits them best imo.
I'm sure if the set up was big enough a semi-aquatic could be safe though, really it depends upon how much dry land is provided.

Yes, this is correct. Every water snake I have ever had, including Neru (the one I have now) has been kept in exactly the same set up as my garter snakes. Aspen, a hide and a water bowl.

Also I have observed and photographed quite a few water snakes out in the meadow and in the woods well away from the creek.

One summer I saw one in my driveway, 1650 feet from the creek.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Oh nah, that's actually a somewhat hazardous set up for water snakes. Pretty much puts them at risk for the same problems Mir had, along with the potential for RI. Unfortunate, what with that style being quite the eye-catcher.

They need much more dry land than they do water. A typical terrestrial set up with an over-sized waterbowl fits them best imo.
I'm sure if the set up was big enough a semi-aquatic could be safe though, really it depends upon how much dry land is provided.Yeah, I was thinking a big setup with some water and a lot of land. I just tend to think elaborately. >.>

~Maggot

[Sophia'sSophia]

Elaborately, yes, artistically as well perhaps? I always find the more complex set-ups to be so beautiful. There is art to be made of dirt and sand! Sadly, I have no space for it to be pretty =and= functional. Maybe some day. :)