my lavendar cornsnake starved himself to death

[rmfsnakes32]

I am sad my brand new lavader cornsnake refused to eat on the 3rd week I force fed because he was abviously weak he then regurged that back up friday I thawed out a pinky mouse and found him belly up in his water dish! Pleazse no nasty remarks about so called husbandry I know mine was right I believe I got a snake that was not an established eater

[infernalis]

I am sad my brand new lavader cornsnake refused to eat on the 3rd week I force fed because he was abviously weak he then regurged that back up friday I thawed out a pinky mouse and found him belly up in his water dish! Pleazse no nasty remarks about so called husbandry I know mine was right I believe I got a snake that was not an established eater

Baby rats, milks and corns can be very stubborn.

Breeder or pet shop?

[CK SandBoas]

How long did you have the cornsnake before it passed away? And what were the temps and setup like? Also, how often was it offered prey? And force feeding should only be done as a last resort, and by someone who has experience with the technique.

Sorry about the loss of your little one.....

[shaunyboy]

i'm not having a go at you mate,but force feeding should be a last drastic option

how old was the snake ?

when did it last feed before the force feeding ?

what were your hot end temps ?

sorry for all the questions,but they will help us figure out what may have been wrong

that said...

snakes die through no fault of the keeper

i'm sorry for your loss

cheers shaun

[Donnie]

Sorry to hear of your loss

[exwizard]

I got Rmf this snake from a breeder at the Tinley Park show which was 3 weeks ago. He was a baby and very small. We tried multiple time to feed him but to no avail. We did try to force feed him at a mutual friend's house earlier this week but he regurged on the way back home. We were going to try it again soon because it became critical that he get something in him but he died before we had the chance to do that. Looking back it's aparrent that this snake was not an established eater when we got him but that's only a suspicion of mine. Anyway, that's what happened.

[marvelfreak]

I got Rmf this snake from a breeder at the Tinley Park show which was 3 weeks ago. He was a baby and very small. We tried multiple time to feed him but to no avail. We did try to force feed him at a mutual friend's house earlier this week but he regurged on the way back home. We were going to try it again soon because it became critical that he get something in him but he died before we had the chance to do that. Looking back it's aparrent that this snake was not an established eater when we got him but that's only a suspicion of mine. Anyway, that's what happened.
I would be contacting the breeder.

[Lankyrob]

I got Rmf this snake from a breeder at the Tinley Park show which was 3 weeks ago. He was a baby and very small. We tried multiple time to feed him but to no avail. We did try to force feed him at a mutual friend's house earlier this week but he regurged on the way back home. We were going to try it again soon because it became critical that he get something in him but he died before we had the chance to do that. Looking back it's aparrent that this snake was not an established eater when we got him but that's only a suspicion of mine. Anyway, that's what happened.

Isnt transporting a snake after eating (especially force feeding which is stressful in itself) an issue? I would also say that trying "multiple times" in just three weeks is kinda excessive too. How many times did you try in the three weeks?

Personally i would say that there was something more serious wrong than it just not eating if it went downhill that fast :(

[aaron_cg]

Aww, im sorry. I would hate to lose a snake

[Snakefood]

Sorry to hear, I would be calling that breeder pronto!!

[shaunyboy]

if a snakes that weak or run down...

the route i would have went was,i would have tube fed it,with high protien cat and dog food from the vets

the foods designed to get sick animals back to health and full strength after periods of illness

i use a 10ml syringe and an infant feeding tube to do it

also i would never buy a snake,that did not look like it was in 100% full health mate

cheers shaun

[Revenant]

Sorry you lost him. Just for future reference, trying to feed a snake again so soon after a regurge can be a much bigger risk than letting them go longer without food, even if you're not force-feeding.

It is possible you just got one of those babies that didn't want to start. I'd hope a breeder wouldn't put such a baby through the stress of a show and being misrepresented to the new owner, but it does happen.

I hope you have better luck with your next one and it is a normal, piggy, garbage-disposal of a corn.

[iBaman]

i'm so sorry, rmf =[

[Aaron_S]

I got Rmf this snake from a breeder at the Tinley Park show which was 3 weeks ago. He was a baby and very small. We tried multiple time to feed him but to no avail. We did try to force feed him at a mutual friend's house earlier this week but he regurged on the way back home. We were going to try it again soon because it became critical that he get something in him but he died before we had the chance to do that. Looking back it's aparrent that this snake was not an established eater when we got him but that's only a suspicion of mine. Anyway, that's what happened.

Who drives home with a snake they just force fed? I also highly doubt it was force feeding. Probably assist feeding. Force is when you literally take a pinky pump and pump pinky puree into the snake's stomach. Highly doubt it was that.

Anyway, who did you buy the snake from? One of the big breeders or a small timer who had them for cheaper than anyone else?

[infernalis]

Anyway, who did you buy the snake from? One of the big breeders or a small timer who had them for cheaper than anyone else?


For those who wonder why both Aaron and I asked this..

Every breeding season for the last several years, I have lost neonate snakes from refusal to eat. (trust me, force feeding a 4mm diameter snake is not easy.. never had any success with it.)

A breeder with integrity would never sell an animal until it was established feeding, meaning it has taken a few meals without hesitation.

Often this takes a lot of work, for instance... Baby corn snakes may require a live anole or two at first to "trigger" the feeding response, some may even require starting this way and then gradually moving to pinkies.

Now we have invested time (often weeks) getting the baby to eat, and we can't charge a penny more for the work put in.

Here is a first hand example - Toby my Black Racer was $10 when I purchased him, he would eat nothing but live anoles (at $6 each) for the first two months before he would even consider a pinkie.

That's around $100 worth of feedings just to get to the part where he would eat pinkies for me. If I tried to sell a $10 snake for $110, no one would ever buy it.

So quite a few breeders will just sell the baby without putting in the effort.

Several breeders I know just put down the stubborn snakes (unless we are talking a high dollar morph) rather than get egg in the face later for selling a non feeding baby.

[KORBIN5895]

One of my blood red corns wouldn't eat.

[exwizard]

Who drives home with a snake they just force fed?

Hindsight is 20/20

I also highly doubt it was force feeding. Probably assist feeding. Force is when you literally take a pinky pump and pump pinky puree into the snake's stomach. Highly doubt it was that.

If that is what you call force feeding then what they did was assist feeding.

Anyway, who did you buy the snake from? One of the big breeders or a small timer who had them for cheaper than anyone else?

I dont remember who the breeder was. The Tinley Park show was so big and there was a lot of people there including all the vendors. There was so much going on there. When we saw that little Lavender there and when I saw Rmf's excitement at finally seeing an available Lavender, I decided to get it for her.

[shaunyboy]

FORCE feeding = cutting the legs off a pinkie and pushing it down the snakes throat,then massaging it down to is stomach

FORCE feeding = using a pinkie pump,it's a metal syringe that turns the pinkie into pulp,then pulp is squirted down snakes throat

FORCE feeding = using a syringe,infant feeding tube cut to the appropriate length,high protien cat/dog food from the vets,watered down into a paste,that will go through the feeding tube,the feeding tube is manovered down the snakes throat far enough,so that the paste goes down into the stomach and not back out the snakes mouth (i use this same method,for administering medication)

ASSIST feeding = putting a pinkies head into the snakes mouth,then allowing the snake to do the rest

FORCE FEEDING,should be a very last resort...!!

cheers shaun

P.S.the above is NOT directed at the op,i just wanted to clarify what force feeding is

[exwizard]

They assist fed. They took a mouse pinkie, thawed it out, warmed it up and got it half way down. The snake did the rest himself.

[shaunyboy]

They assist fed. They took a mouse pinkie, thawed it out, warmed it up and shoved it all the way down.

^^^^^
that was FORCE feeding mate

ASSIST feeding is....

when you open the snakes mouth with the head of a pinkie...

the snake bites down on the pinkie...

then you lay the snake in it's tank,with the pinkie still in its mouth and the snake,takes the rest of the pinkie down by ITSELF

cheers shaun

[exwizard]

FORCE feeding = cutting the legs off a pinkie and pushing it down the snakes throat,then massaging it down to is stomach

FORCE feeding = using a pinkie pump,it's a metal syringe that turns the pinkie into pulp,then pulp is squirted down snakes throat

FORCE feeding = using a syringe,infant feeding tube cut to the appropriate length,high protien cat/dog food from the vets,watered down into a paste,that will go through the feeding tube,the feeding tube is manovered down the snakes throat far enough,so that the paste goes down into the stomach and not back out the snakes mouth (i use this same method,for administering medication)

ASSIST feeding = putting a pinkies head into the snakes mouth,then allowing the snake to do the rest

FORCE FEEDING,should be a very last resort...!!

cheers shaun

P.S.the above is NOT directed at the op,i just wanted to clarify what force feeding is

I was going by your definition Shaun. It doesnt matter now anyway. Whats done is done and theres nothing that can be done about it now. Its like beating a dead horse into the ground. She tried to keep it alive by resorting to this but apparantly it was just a little too late. Again, hindsight is 20/20. In the future, any other snakes we get, we will make sure that it has already been established as an eater before we get it.

[KORBIN5895]

You guys should probably slow down as you aren't certain what actually killed this one.

Also you edited your post to cover your mistake. Don't blame Shaun.

[rmfsnakes32]

The reason I had to take the snake with me was because the person that knows how to assist feed (she has done this many times where as I had only done it on larger snakes) lives clear on the other side of town and was without a vehicle so thats why he regurged on the way home I know that is a stressful event anyway! In hindsight I should have left the snake at her place for a few days to digest. But a day late and a dollar short, life lesson learned!!!!!!!!!!!! I cant change the fact that he is dead!!!!!!!!! Thank you to those whose expressed their sympothies!

[shaunyboy]

You guys should probably slow down as you aren't certain what actually killed this one.

Also you edited your post to cover your mistake. Don't blame Shaun.

i though i was going senile for a minute there Kevin....:wacky:

but then i checked the part i quoted in my post,thats when i noticed the editing ;)

cheers for spotting that mate:D

as said we're pretty much beating a dead horse/snake now:(

cheers shaun

[exwizard]

You guys should probably slow down as you aren't certain what actually killed this one.

Also you edited your post to cover your mistake. Don't blame Shaun.

I edited my post because I was told more accurate info after my original post but before I read Shauns post. Im not blaming anyone and as far as us slowing down Ive already decided I have enough snakes anyway, but there's one other thing I need to say right now. What I see happening here is yet ANOTHER wolf pack mentality going on here. Some of you guys are on the condemnation attack AGAIN. Nothing productive can come of that so it needs to stop now. This is why a lot of people are hesitant to even post stuff like this.

[KORBIN5895]

I was going by your definition Shaun. It doesnt matter now anyway. Whats done is done and theres nothing that can be done about it now. Its like beating a dead horse into the ground. She tried to keep it alive by resorting to this but apparantly it was just a little too late. Again, hindsight is 20/20. In the future, any other snakes we get, we will make sure that it has already been established as an eater before we get it.

Yep that's blaming.

Listen Gary. Take you kid gloves and soft touch over to rp. I for one am really getting tired of seeing your condemnation of people who correct others. If you want to coddle fine but if someone gets called out for there mistakes ( especially when they are trying to hide it or claim experience they don't have) too bad for them. If they can't tell the truth who cares if they get their fragile feelings hurt.

[Jay]

Gary, Rmf. Slow down, you guys are way over your head.

[exwizard]

Yep that's blaming.

Listen Gary. Take you kid gloves and soft touch over to rp. I for one am really getting tired of seeing your condemnation of people who correct others. If you want to coddle fine but if someone gets called out for there mistakes ( especially when they are trying to hide it or claim experience they don't have) too bad for them. If they can't tell the truth who cares if they get their fragile feelings hurt.

What part of S T O P do you not understand?! So stop already! Shes already stopped even reading this thread so its all moot anyway! I even doubt that she will come back here thanks to all the condemnation that was heaped upon her for even sharing this with you guys.

Also, whenever I see anyone being ganged up on I will defend them EVERY time. Count on it!

[KORBIN5895]

Not worth it.

[lady_bug87]

My question is:
If you bought this thing at an expo, and it WASN'T an established eater, wouldn't you be able to tell?

I mean if it weren't eating with the same consistency as the other neonates, wouldn't it be smaller? Look more sickly?

And if the snake was very young (For example I bought my GTP 4 weeks after she hatched therefore I sort of knew the risk of her not being established) I would have suggested NOT buying it in favour or heartier looking specimens since corns are a dime-o-dozen.

[infernalis]

I dont remember who the breeder was. The Tinley Park show was so big and there was a lot of people there including all the vendors. There was so much going on there. When we saw that little Lavender there and when I saw Rmf's excitement at finally seeing an available Lavender, I decided to get it for her.


Bingo..... If I had no conscience, shows would be exactly where I would pedal my non feeding neonates.

Don't hang up a banner, don't pass out business cards, just sell them and run for the hills.

[exwizard]

My question is:
If you bought this thing at an expo, and it WASN'T an established eater, wouldn't you be able to tell?

I mean if it weren't eating with the same consistency as the other neonates, wouldn't it be smaller? Look more sickly?

And if the snake was very young (For example I bought my GTP 4 weeks after she hatched therefore I sort of knew the risk of her not being established) I would have suggested NOT buying it in favour or heartier looking specimens since corns are a dime-o-dozen.

It doesn't matter anymore. It is what it is and people will have the same opinions about what happened no matter how many times it's been explained, especially since it's all after the fact and nothing can bring Jupiter back. All this harping on Rmf has done nothing but make Rmf feel bad as if she doesn't already. She's been wanting a Lavender for a long time and she's still grieving over the loss of this one.

[rmfsnakes32]

it doesn't matter anymore. It is what it is and people will have the same opinions about what happened no matter how many times it's been explained, especially since it's all after the fact and nothing can bring jupiter back. All this harping on rmf has done nothing but make rmf feel bad as if she doesn't already. She's been wanting a lavender for a long time and she's still grieving over the loss of this one.
thank you!

[EmbraceCalamity]

It doesn't matter anymore. It is what it is and people will have the same opinions about what happened no matter how many times it's been explained, especially since it's all after the fact and nothing can bring Jupiter back. All this harping on Rmf has done nothing but make Rmf feel bad as if she doesn't already. She's been wanting a Lavender for a long time and she's still grieving over the loss of this one.In all fairness, if she didn't want people "harping" on her, she shouldn't have posted a thread saying her snake starved to death. She didn't ask for ideas about why it happened or how to prevent it from happening again or what she could have done differently or what she could do now that it has happened. She just posted saying it starved but demanded no nasty remarks on her husbandry. What did she expect? We can safely assume she was just looking for sympathy, but if she really expected all she'd get was "Awww, I'm so sorry1111," then she's never be on the internet before. In short, by posting that her snake starved to death and not asking for any actual advice, she brought the harping on herself.

~Maggot

[exwizard]

I think you guys enjoy it because it makes you all feel good. The wolf pack continues to shred this dead horse to pieces.

[Lankyrob]

In all fairness, if she didn't want people "harping" on her, she shouldn't have posted a thread saying her snake starved to death. She didn't ask for ideas about why it happened or how to prevent it from happening again or what she could have done differently or what she could do now that it has happened. She just posted saying it starved but demanded no nasty remarks on her husbandry. What did she expect? We can safely assume she was just looking for sympathy, but if she really expected all she'd get was "Awww, I'm so sorry1111," then she's never be on the internet before. In short, by posting that her snake starved to death and not asking for any actual advice, she brought the harping on herself.

~Maggot

This pretty much hits the nail on the head for me

[Revenant]

In the future, make sure you ask for a receipt at shows. It can get confusing when you've browsed all over and seen a hundred small names you don't know well. Always ask for a receipt with a name and some contact info. It can help a lot if you have some trouble with a show snake, want to keep track of your genetics, or get really lucky with a small timer and want to throw them some more business later.

[exwizard]

In the future, make sure you ask for a receipt at shows. It can get confusing when you've browsed all over and seen a hundred small names you don't know well. Always ask for a receipt with a name and some contact info. It can help a lot if you have some trouble with a show snake, want to keep track of your genetics, or get really lucky with a small timer and want to throw them some more business later.
You're exactly right and this is what we plan on next time and any other subsequent time. Thank you. This piece of advice is actually constructive. :)

[shaunyboy]

In all fairness, if she didn't want people "harping" on her, she shouldn't have posted a thread saying her snake starved to death. She didn't ask for ideas about why it happened or how to prevent it from happening again or what she could have done differently or what she could do now that it has happened. She just posted saying it starved but demanded no nasty remarks on her husbandry. What did she expect? We can safely assume she was just looking for sympathy, but if she really expected all she'd get was "Awww, I'm so sorry1111," then she's never be on the internet before. In short, by posting that her snake starved to death and not asking for any actual advice, she brought the harping on herself.

~Maggot

This pretty much hits the nail on the head for me


to be fair she may not have asked for ideas on why it happened,or how to prevent it in the future

but by posting what happened...

ANSWERS have been posted in this thread

IMO we learn just as much,if not MORE from our mistakes..

imo its vital people share mistakes,so everyone can learn..

people won't share their mistakes,if all they can expect is...........

to get torn a new arse...!!

im not being cheeky

cheers shaun

[bushsnake]

Bingo..... If I had no conscience, shows would be exactly where I would pedal my non feeding neonates.

Don't hang up a banner, don't pass out business cards, just sell them and run for the hills.
I know many people that vend at Tinley its the kind of show where people bust out theyre best stuff and that goes for pretty much everyone

[rmfsnakes32]

The snake was taken to the vet and checked for patasites and other thinhs that could cause refusal to eat my vets conclusion was that it was not an established feeder before sold I tried feeding every 7 days! Tried a paper sack with pinky in it ,leaving it overnight it was not until the vet recomended assit feeding did I even bother trying it. The carcass is being taken in on monday to determine definitive cause of death! So before assuming I didnt ask for help by coming on here to get picked on I went to a proffesional and paid for the services!

[Aaron_S]

Hindsight is 20/20...


This piece of garbage is no reason or excuse to NOT properly think ahead. "Hey, we don't touch snakes for hours after eating but it's OKAY to take a drive across town after a stress force/assist feeding."

Gotcha.

You're the last person I would ever ask for advice.


For more advice, RMF, even though you want a lavender get some big girl panties on and research where to find one. I'm POSITIVE I can find you 3 that can be shipped to you for cheap.

Oh, I'm sorry, I bet you want the dirt cheap ones at shows.

In case you need "Jupiter 2" here are some links...

Corn Snakes – BHB Reptiles (http://bhb-reptiles.myshopify.com/collections/corn-snakes?page=2)

Lavender Corn Snake (Baby) For Sale Online, Buy Now With UPS Overnight Shipping (http://www.reptmart.com/p-956-lavender-corn-snake-baby-for-sale.aspx)

Kingsnake.com Classifieds > Corn Snake Classifieds (http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?cat=65)

There's four at the bottom of BHB's page of various combos.
The Bell's have one on sale for 39.99!
The last is a list from kingsnake...searching purely for lavenders. You didn't have to wait so long and then lose so much by getting the one from the show.

[Trent]

Then I shall expose you for being an immature, socially inept tool that can't figure out to stay on topic.

Right on cue Buddy..I was wondering where you were;)

[alessia55]

Lets keep this thread on topic please.

[KORBIN5895]

Lets keep this thread on topic please.

My last post was on topic. Why was it deleted?

[Revenant]

I can't remember it exactly, but maybe because it or a portion of it wouldn't make sense without the OT posts being there?

//fears a spanking for being off-topic.

[infernalis]

I know many people that vend at Tinley its the kind of show where people bust out theyre best stuff and that goes for pretty much everyone

"Pretty much" being the key here Joe.

I did the show circuit for years, a different metro every weekend, pick a city east of the Mississippi river and I have probably done a table or two.

I hung up banners, passed out cards and took pride in my work.

But every single show had at least one or two people who would only do a table in any one city every couple years, no cards, no banners, just a cash box.

Heck, one guy set up his table and put the sheets over everything, it was still an hour before the doors opened, he sat out in his truck snorting coke. I know because I was parked right next to him and I saw it.

Either that or his scratch and sniff CD case smelled really good.

The point is, like I said... not EVERYONE at EVERY show is 100%

Yes, some shows are higher class than others, Can't say I have ever been to Tinley, so my statements are in general..... Anyone with the money for a table can set up at a show.

[EmbraceCalamity]

This piece of garbage is no reason or excuse to NOT properly think ahead. "Hey, we don't touch snakes for hours after eating but it's OKAY to take a drive across town after a stress force/assist feeding."

Gotcha.

You're the last person I would ever ask for advice.


For more advice, RMF, even though you want a lavender get some big girl panties on and research where to find one. I'm POSITIVE I can find you 3 that can be shipped to you for cheap.

Oh, I'm sorry, I bet you want the dirt cheap ones at shows.

In case you need "Jupiter 2" here are some links...

Corn Snakes – BHB Reptiles (http://bhb-reptiles.myshopify.com/collections/corn-snakes?page=2)

Lavender Corn Snake (Baby) For Sale Online, Buy Now With UPS Overnight Shipping (http://www.reptmart.com/p-956-lavender-corn-snake-baby-for-sale.aspx)

Kingsnake.com Classifieds > Corn Snake Classifieds (http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?cat=65)

There's four at the bottom of BHB's page of various combos.
The Bell's have one on sale for 39.99!
The last is a list from kingsnake...searching purely for lavenders. You didn't have to wait so long and then lose so much by getting the one from the show.I love you a little. :)"Pretty much" being the key here Joe.

I did the show circuit for years, a different metro every weekend, pick a city east of the Mississippi river and I have probably done a table or two.

I hung up banners, passed out cards and took pride in my work.

But every single show had at least one or two people who would only do a table in any one city every couple years, no cards, no banners, just a cash box.

Heck, one guy set up his table and put the sheets over everything, it was still an hour before the doors opened, he sat out in his truck snorting coke. I know because I was parked right next to him and I saw it.

Either that or his scratch and sniff CD case smelled really good.

The point is, like I said... not EVERYONE at EVERY show is 100%

Yes, some shows are higher class than others, Can't say I have ever been to Tinley, so my statements are in general..... Anyone with the money for a table can set up at a show.That's not really a surprise. Unless the shows have strict regulations (not been to one yet, so I wouldn't know), it goes without saying that there would be some people there that are ****. I'd hesitate to buy a reptile from a show unless the vender looked really legit.

~Maggot

[ballpython1717]

why is everyone fighting? i am new to the forum and now i am afraid to ask anything because everyone here is bashing each other and being rude.

[jhinton6932]

hopefully the mods see this^

[ballpython1717]

same here. its sad that we have to yell at someone for making an understandable mistake instead of giving him our sympathy.

[alessia55]

My last post was on topic. Why was it deleted?

I can't remember it exactly, but maybe because it or a portion of it wouldn't make sense without the OT posts being there?

Correct. I removed most of the off-topic banter and whatever wouldn't make sense without it to keep the thread on topic and flowing. Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.

[Aaron_S]

same here. its sad that we have to yell at someone for making an understandable mistake instead of giving him our sympathy.

Sympathy for what?

Sympathy for failure. No thanks.

[Lankyrob]

same here. its sad that we have to yell at someone for making an understandable mistake instead of giving him our sympathy.

When sympathy is due it is given freely and openly, there are many threads where this happens. :)

[ballpython1717]

He lost a snake. Its a big deal!!!

[CK SandBoas]

He lost a snake. Its a big deal!!!

What is also a big deal is the mistakes made that led up to the death of the snake. I am truly sorry the snake died,but responsibility has to be owned up to by ALL parties involved. When someone says "Hindsight is 20/20", to me, that is a cop out, basically saying "oh well, what's done is done, can't turn back now"

That truly makes me ill, and i am not afraid to say that......

[rmfsnakes32]

BTW Maggot I have no desire to replace this snake if one breeder screwed me who is to say another one wont! I have zero trust in shows now! Went to one today and bought nothing!

[Aaron_S]

BTW Maggot I have no desire to replace this snake if one breeder screwed me who is to say another one wont! I have zero trust in shows now! Went to one today and bought nothing!

So you're going to pay pet store prices? Or your "trusty" "all knowing" mentor, exwizard?

I suggest you trust me and the links (especially the first two) I provided.

[rmfsnakes32]

When I feel ready to get another I will check into those sites and get recomendations from more than one person before making a final decision! The table we got him at had a very nice set up and all tje snakes appeared to be healthy. I have 6 baby corns that were all that same size when I purchased them from various places and all are growing very nicely. So when we made that purchase I based it off all those factors!

[lady_bug87]

It doesn't matter anymore. It is what it is and people will have the same opinions about what happened no matter how many times it's been explained, especially since it's all after the fact and nothing can bring Jupiter back. All this harping on Rmf has done nothing but make Rmf feel bad as if she doesn't already. She's been wanting a Lavender for a long time and she's still grieving over the loss of this one.

I think you guys enjoy it because it makes you all feel good. The wolf pack continues to shred this dead horse to pieces.

Hang on,

NOWHERE did I harp on ANYTHING to do with her. Her snake died and I am sorry that it did, but she messed up.

I think you're being so defensive because you helped her and that means that YOU messed up too.

If I remember reading correctly YOU went with her to pick it out and YOU helped to try get the poor thing to eat. You are not an inexperienced keeper, So the fact that you "let" her take home an unestablished animal (if you indeed did) should be equally YOUR responsibility,

This is a classic example of a 'do your homework', 'can't always get what you want when you want it situation'

I can respect she's "wanted one for a long time" but that is no excuse to buy a sick animal, or one that has not been established. ESPECIALLY since she asked someone with a lot of experience to help her out.

[exwizard]

This piece of garbage is no reason or excuse to NOT properly think ahead. "Hey, we don't touch snakes for hours after eating but it's OKAY to take a drive across town after a stress force/assist feeding."

Gotcha.

You're the last person I would ever ask for advice.I wouldn't give you advice if my life depended on it. Your arrogance still amazes me and it blinds you the hateful self that you are.

For more advice, RMF, even though you want a lavender get some big girl panties on and research where to find one. I'm POSITIVE I can find you 3 that can be shipped to you for cheap.You outdid yourself yet again. Wow!


Oh, I'm sorry, I bet you want the dirt cheap ones at shows.She was not expecting to find this one and when she did find it, she was so excited aboiut it, I decided to get it for her. So much for holding out for the "super cheap ones" at the shows. I dont even care what you say anyway. Your arrogance oozes all over your posts. I dont even know why I even feel the need to call you out on it. I know from what perspective you operate on and Ive known it for a long time. Oh wait, I know why. You smell blood and you want in on this attack just to satisfy your own ego.


In case you need "Jupiter 2" here are some links...

Corn Snakes – BHB Reptiles (http://bhb-reptiles.myshopify.com/collections/corn-snakes?page=2)

Lavender Corn Snake (Baby) For Sale Online, Buy Now With UPS Overnight Shipping (http://www.reptmart.com/p-956-lavender-corn-snake-baby-for-sale.aspx)

Kingsnake.com Classifieds > Corn Snake Classifieds (http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?cat=65)

There's four at the bottom of BHB's page of various combos.
The Bell's have one on sale for 39.99!
The last is a list from kingsnake...searching purely for lavenders.This is the only constructive thing you said in this post and it took major sifting through all the sarcasm and condemnation to be able to pull anything good out of your post. Thanks a lot!

You didn't have to wait so long and then lose so much by getting the one from the show."shoulda woulda coulda". This is most of what you said in this post and for the most part is soo unproductive. But then thats just like you and really even now in all my amazement of what you are capable of, only confirms to me just how hateful you are. I wrtite you off from here on out. Nothing you can say ever until you are blue in the face can ever have ANY relevance to me or anything I say or do. So let it be written. So let it be done.

[marvelfreak]

Class the bell as rang now everybody shut and sit down. Anymore bickering and you will all go to the principles office.

Don't make me put your asses in time out.

[Aaron_S]

I wouldn't give you advice if my life depended on it. Your arrogance still amazes me and it blinds you the hateful self that you are.

You outdid yourself yet again. Wow!

She was not expecting to find this one and when she did find it, she was so excited aboiut it, I decided to get it for her. So much for holding out for the "super cheap ones" at the shows. I dont even care what you say anyway. Your arrogance oozes all over your posts. I dont even know why I even feel the need to call you out on it. I know from what perspective you operate on and Ive known it for a long time. Oh wait, I know why. You smell blood and you want in on this attack just to satisfy your own ego.

This is the only constructive thing you said in this post and it took major sifting through all the sarcasm and condemnation to be able to pull anything good out of your post. Thanks a lot!

"shoulda woulda coulda". This is most of what you said in this post and for the most part is soo unproductive. But then thats just like you and really even now in all my amazement of what you are capable of, only confirms to me just how hateful you are. I wrtite you off from here on out. Nothing you can say ever until you are blue in the face can ever have ANY relevance to me or anything I say or do. So let it be written. So let it be done.

Well...all I hear is wha, wha, wha.

Once you grow up and accept responsibility for your inexperience leading to the death of a baby cornsnake and possibly the passion of a new keeper then, maybe I'll consider you worthy of my time.

[EmbraceCalamity]

I wouldn't give you advice if my life depended on it. Your arrogance still amazes me and it blinds you the hateful self that you are.And here we see how much you truly care about animals. No wonder things went the way they did. I would give advice in the interest of helping an animal to anyone, no matter how much I hated them.
~Maggot

[Aaron_S]

Now we are just getting off topic again.

STAY FOCUSED!

[EmbraceCalamity]

Now we are just getting off topic again.

STAY FOCUSED!HOKAY. I can't imagine lavender corns are that hard to find. I've looked at lots of reptile sites and seen lots for sale. Or are they that rare? I'm not that into snakes, so I wouldn't know.

~Maggot

[lady_bug87]

as far as I know they're not that sparse in numbers. Usually when I go to an expo all I see are Ball Pythons and Corns

[exwizard]

Hang on,

NOWHERE did I harp on ANYTHING to do with her. Her snake died and I am sorry that it did, but she messed up.

I think you're being so defensive because you helped her and that means that YOU messed up too.

If I remember reading correctly YOU went with her to pick it out and YOU helped to try get the poor thing to eat. You are not an inexperienced keeper, So the fact that you "let" her take home an unestablished animal (if you indeed did) should be equally YOUR responsibility,

This is a classic example of a 'do your homework', 'can't always get what you want when you want it situation'

I can respect she's "wanted one for a long time" but that is no excuse to buy a sick animal, or one that has not been established. ESPECIALLY since she asked someone with a lot of experience to help her out.Shes not blaming me for this and she did try to do everything in her power to keep it alive. Then when that failed she thought she would share this with you guys and what she got in exchange was a lot of bloodletting by the likes of a lot of you guys. Amazing! Just whan I thought Ive seen it all. Wow!

There are a couple of things I have learned from all this...

1- Buy from only reputable vendors

2- To NEVER EVER present any of this to you guys again. I never realized that the slightest smell of blood would send you all into such a feeding frenzy.

You guys act like this snake was yours and that she killed your snake. Nothing could be further from the truth on either count no matter what you say. I bought her this snake with my money, not yours and she did NOT kill it. We did not even know this snake was not an established eater until after we tried to feed it. Why am I trying to explain all this to you guys anyway. It's just more blood that will stir up even more of a mad wolf feeding frenzy.

I am sorry that all this was even brought up to begin with.

[lady_bug87]

Continue to be ill for all I care. There is nothing that I have to say to you regarding this because I dont answer to you and thank goodness for that.
Who are you? There is nothing you have ever said on this forum that bears any weight or importance as far as Im concerned.

Shes not blaming me for this and she did try to do everything in her power to keep it alive. Then when that failed she thought she would share this with you guys and what she got in exchange was a lot of bloodletting by the likes of a lot of you guys. Amazing! Just whan I thought Ive seen it all. Wow!

There are a couple of things I have learned from all this...

1- Buy from only reputable vendors

2- To NEVER EVER present any of this to you guys again. I never realized that the slightest smell of bblood would send you all into such a feeding frenzy.

You guys act like this snake was yours and that she killed your snake. Nothing could be further from the truth on either count no matter what you say. I bought her this snake with my money, not yours and she did NOT kill it. We did not even know this snake was not an established eater until after we tried to feed it. Why am I trying to explain all this to you guys anyway. It's just more blood that will stir up even more of a mad wolf feeding frenzy.

I am sorry that all this was even brought up to begin with.

I was NOT being mean, or cruel, or jumping on anything. But since you asked for it here you go:

I am obviously the idiot because I dont see ANYTHING in this sentence that says "Please help me never to kill another animal"

I am sad my brand new lavader cornsnake refused to eat on the 3rd week I force fed because he was abviously weak he then regurged that back up friday I thawed out a pinky mouse and found him belly up in his water dish! Pleazse no nasty remarks about so called husbandry I know mine was right I believe I got a snake that was not an established eater

What I do see is some lame attempt to get sympathy, and another plea not to criticize her husbandry.

and I don't care a lick how you got this snake or that it died because all of mine are alive and well. All I know is that for someone who is supposed to know so much you messed up and you can't admit it. If this was her first pet then I really can't blame her but by your signature you have how many?

You can choose to put whatever you like on here but don't be all pouty when someone calls you out on all your nonsense

[EmbraceCalamity]

No! I was just trying to make a point on how childish all this bickering sound.
Everyone here is human and not a single one of us is perfected or free from ever making mistakes. She learned a lesson the hard way and we all have to at one point or another. She now knows what the mistakes were and hopefully they won't be repeated.I don't think the mistakes are the issues anymore, so much as the making of excuses and getting mad at people for pointing out the mistakes. If I did several stupid things that resulted in the death of my pet, I would deserve the criticism, and I wouldn't make excuses for myself. (Granted, I wouldn't post a thread like this to begin with. See my previous explanation regarding the purpose of the thread.)

~Maggot

[exwizard]

I reiterate "You guys act like this snake was yours and that she killed your snake. Nothing could be further from the truth on either count no matter what you say. I bought her this snake with my money, not yours and she did NOT kill it. We did not even know this snake was not an established eater until after we tried to feed it. Why am I trying to explain all this to you guys anyway. It's just more blood that will stir up even more of a mad wolf feeding frenzy."

[Jay]

You're exactly right and this is what we plan on next time and any other subsequent time. Thank you. This piece of advice is actually constructive. :)

Only because its what you want to hear.

[Jlassiter]

This thread is another fine example of keyboard commandos having a pissing contest.....
That is the MAIN reason folks don't get good advice for they hate to post questions on a public forum where so called professionals act as though they know all the answers then chastise those just learning.

Such a shame.....sad really....
There is a correct way to point out faults and most on this thread do not understand how to do this, but who really cares, huh? You made your point.

Now, step away from the keyboard and go learn from your animals, not only from what you read on a forum.

[Kavyrie]

How about we take the stupid bickering and take it to pms and let this thread stay on topic?

To the op: I'm sorry about your loss, I'd be heartbroken if I finally got a snake I had been wanting for a long time and had something like that happen. I hope this doesn't ruin keeping for you, and that after some time that you will try again. Now you know the questions to ask if you decide to go to a show again.

[bushsnake]

"Pretty much" being the key here Joe.

I did the show circuit for years, a different metro every weekend, pick a city east of the Mississippi river and I have probably done a table or two.

I hung up banners, passed out cards and took pride in my work.

But every single show had at least one or two people who would only do a table in any one city every couple years, no cards, no banners, just a cash box.

Heck, one guy set up his table and put the sheets over everything, it was still an hour before the doors opened, he sat out in his truck snorting coke. I know because I was parked right next to him and I saw it.

Either that or his scratch and sniff CD case smelled really good.

The point is, like I said... not EVERYONE at EVERY show is 100%

Yes, some shows are higher class than others, Can't say I have ever been to Tinley, so my statements are in general..... Anyone with the money for a table can set up at a show.
Im east of the mississippi...what shows have you done? You must of done Lee Watsons show....everyone in the business has been to that show

[bushsnake]

This thread is another fine example of keyboard commandos having a pissing contest.....
That is the MAIN reason folks don't get good advice for they hate to post questions on a public forum where so called professionals act as though they know all the answers then chastise those just learning.

Such a shame.....sad really.... y
There is a correct way to point out faults and most on this thread do not understand how to do this, but who really cares, huh? You made your point.

Now, step away from the keyboard and go learn from your animals, not only from what you read on a forum.

If these people understood what your saying you wouldnt have to say it but ill take your tip and go do animal things lol

[exwizard]

This thread is another fine example of keyboard commandos having a pissing contest.....
That is the MAIN reason folks don't get good advice for they hate to post questions on a public forum where so called professionals act as though they know all the answers then chastise those just learning.

Such a shame.....sad really....
There is a correct way to point out faults and most on this thread do not understand how to do this, but who really cares, huh? You made your point.

Now, step away from the keyboard and go learn from your animals, not only from what you read on a forum.......Amen

[RandyRhoads]

If these people understood what your saying you wouldnt have to say it
^^^^^^^^^^:freakedout:

[exwizard]

How about we take the stupid bickering and take it to pms and let this thread stay on topic?

To the op: I'm sorry about your loss, I'd be heartbroken if I finally got a snake I had been wanting for a long time and had something like that happen. I hope this doesn't ruin keeping for you, and that after some time that you will try again. Now you know the questions to ask if you decide to go to a show again.
Thank you..

[Kavyrie]

Thank you..

You're welcome.

Seriously though, this is why new people are terrified of posting anything. Hell pretty much I get nervous every time I post something, because I know I'm not going to get constructive criticism. I'm going to get ridiculed, chewed up and spat out for something I don't know.

[lady_bug87]

You're welcome.

Seriously though, this is why new people are terrified of posting anything. Hell pretty much I get nervous every time I post something, because I know I'm not going to get constructive criticism. I'm going to get ridiculed, chewed up and spat out for something I don't know.

You shouldn't be worried. Most of the time this doesn't happen.

[exwizard]

Can't believe you're shocked that you're getting flack for sticking up for somone who's snake died from personal negligence.No Im not shocked for sticking up for anyone here. It doesnt matter who I stick up for, I get the same flack and Im used to that. What I am amazed at was that even though I bought this snake for her and shortly after discovering that it wasnt eating and then after try to keep it alive by assist feeding him and that having failed, Rmf presents all of this here and thats all it took for a feeding frenzy of blood with all these wolves throwing around wild unfounded accusations and blaming her for this snake dying when she did everything she could to keep him alive.

Oh and to Maggot. I do need to say something here. First off Im not going to defend myself to you or anyone else and I fully expect your judgemental holier than thou attitude, as hateful as it is, to not change. I do care for my pets as if you have anything to say about it. I have 7 species of 32 snakes that I take care of them all. When someone other than Aaron asks for advice, if its within my power to give it, I give it. Whether or not they take it is on them because the snakes in question are THEIRS, NOT MINE. I dont take personal offense when my advice is not taken. That doesnt mean I dont care for my own snakes, but one thing is for sure. If I were to ever have a problem or an issue with any of them, I would NEVER, EVER bring it here; not with the likes of you or Aaon in all your arrogant wisdom to start another feeding frenzy. This thread has proved that to me.

[alessia55]

I've deleted all the back and forth bickering. AGAIN, keep this thread on topic, about the lavender corn snake in question, NOT about members who you don't like/respect/etc. If you have an issue with a member, please use the Private Messaging option.

[lady_bug87]

Honestly Alessia (and Wayne if you're listening or reading) this whole thread should just go away.

It wasn't going to be useful from the first post,