The sordid story of Ryu

[Ryodraco]

I hope this is the right place to post this, I am new here so let me know if I'm wrong.

It all started early this year, when I at last felt like I had the financial abilities to properly care for a snake. I debated between a corn snake and California kingsnake, but ended up going for the California king in part because of its smaller size enabling me to be sure my terrarium was big enough. I brought Ryu, a three foot or so long striped male, from a pet store called Plano Pets.

It was far from an impulse buy. Plano Pets are the best reptile sellers in the area that I know of and have won awards in the past, and I observed Ryu for weeks before buying him. I confirmed he was a regular feeder and one of the most active and outgoing snakes there.

Things changed once I brought him home. He rarely came out from under the aspen and seemed much less active. Yet he ate readily most of the time, even if he almost never took anything but live mice, and his sheds were fine. I chalked his shyness up to him doing what he would have done at the pet store if he had the same amount of room there to hide. So I was overall satisfied and things continued like this for months.

Then about four months ago things took a turn for the worse. Ryu refused to eat. This was not new, but unlike in the past he didn’t accept the food later in the day or the next day, or the next week. Week after week passed. He shed but did not eat afterward. He had no apparent injuries or other health problems. I asked for advice on a reptile forum, and due to this advice added the moss box in hopes it would help him be more comfortable. Mostly I was told to just keep waiting and offering food. Months passed. I tried different sizes of mice, live and dead. I tried a fuzzy rat. All to no avail. Ryu would tongue flick them a bit sometimes but that was it. Otherwise he ignored or retreated from them.

Four months passed, Ryu was feeling noticeably less muscular when I held him, and acted weaker. He was also irritable, biting me for the first time (I actually was pleased when he did, hoping it meant he would bite the mouse too, but while he did strike at it he did not follow through). I decided it was time for the last resort, taking him back to Plano Pets to be force fed.

It was the first time I had transported him since bringing him home from the pet store, and I used the same cloth bag. However, I must have not tied it tight enough, as he somehow escaped from the bag without me noticing while I was driving to the store (a good half hour drive). Into the dashboard was the most likely place he ended up (there are no spaces under the seats for him to hide as far as I can tell and it’s a small car), and the main reptile guy at Plano Pets was confident he would come out eventually, but with this prolonged fast Ryu has been under I am not confident for his survival. That’s assuming that he didn’t somehow get into the engine from the dash as well, in which case there is no hope.

It’s been a good week since then with no sign of him, and it’s been getting into the forties at night so I fear the worst. No bad smell yet though so if he is in there he is still alive…

So, whether I find him or end up having to get another snake I want to know what I can do differently. Below are things I am considering:

1. Removing the moss box/using newspapers instead.
Perhaps I made things too humid? Perhaps the moss box should only be put in when the snake is in a shed cycle and I should put newspapers over the screen top the rest of the time? Or perhaps I should put newspapers on the screen top and keep the moss hide?

2. More frequent handling.
I read to not handle a snake for around 3 to 4 days after it has eaten, and to not handle it the day before feeding. But perhaps this was excessive as it meant I often did not handle Ryu more than once a week, and even less than that quite often. Perhaps a lack of consistent handling made him fearful all the time? He was always quite amicable when I was handling him, but never got over tail rattling when picking him up or having my hand in the terrarium, and he musked on occasion as well. Once he started fasting I handled him even less, thinking it would reduce his stress, but perhaps this had the opposite effect?

3. Somehow blacking out the back/sides of the terrarium/applying a background.
The terrarium came with a foam rock background that Ryu immediately dislodged and damaged in the process so I threw it out. But perhaps a lack of anything on the sides but clear glass had to do with why he came out so much less than at the pet store? If so then the question is what to cover the glass with. Should it be black or another color, or one of those naturalistic static-cling desert backgrounds? Should I cover the sides as well and if so with what?

Attached below are photos of the terrarium as it currently is. Note that the moss hide currently has no moss in it but would normally be filled with damp sphagnum moss. Below it is the sensor for the thermostat controlling the undertank heater, which was set to about 88 degrees.

[Terranaut]

Well I have to say a few things.
First off he was in your car and you couldn't find him? Please. I would have the interior ripped out before I gave up. Brutal. The reason he didn't come out was because his cage is all open. You got to cover the sides and back. Research a snake before getting one. Kings will sometimes spend lots of time just sitting in their hides. He hid under the aspen because you provide almost no cover. Is your heat mat in the middle? Did you provide a heat gradient so he could thermoregulate? Man I hate to chew on people here but you killed your snake. If you get another please learn how to take care of it first.

[Ryodraco]

Well I have to say a few things.
First off he was in your car and you couldn't find him? Please. I would have the interior ripped out before I gave up. Brutal. The reason he didn't come out was because his cage is all open. You got to cover the sides and back. Research a snake before getting one. Kings will sometimes spend lots of time just sitting in their hides. He hid under the aspen because you provide almost no cover. Is your heat mat in the middle? Did you provide a heat gradient so he could thermoregulate? Man I hate to chew on people here but you killed your snake. If you get another please learn how to take care of it first.
I did research, extensively (or at least I thought I did). I also asked online on another snake forum (the South Texas Reptiles forum) about my set up and the only addition that was recommended was the moss hide (I had previously been just putting moss in the rock hide). They also said my snake looked healthy (this was a few months ago). Kingsnake updates (http://www.southtexasreptiles.com/strforum/showthread.php?t=18609)

And it was Jlassiter advising me there so I am quite sure he knew what he was talking about.

And while the cage being open did occur to me, nothing I read had references to it needing to be covered up (beyond noting it could be done for personal aesthetics), let alone to it being all important. Further most set-ups in books I read had photos of terrariums about as "open" as mine is.

Now I would like to cover up the sides and back, hence my question of how best to do that.

The heat mat is on the right side of the terrarium bottom (you can see it in the photo). I also got a temperature gun to make sure the thermostat worked properly.

And no I have not given up. I have taken apart what I can of the dashboard with no luck. The initial advice I got was to wait for him to come out on his own so I have been following that.

<><><>

I also forgot to note in the first post that Ryu did continue to defecate routinely a long time after his fast started, so a blockage seems unlikely (not that you suggested that, it was jsut something I cosnidered). Judging by what you are saying it seems it may have been stress that caused the fast, but let it be noted my room is very quiet with little foot traffic. Again, the terrarium being too open was never something I was told was a problem.

[Jlassiter]

The OP has asked many questions and had an adequate set up by his description.
I offered him all I could without actually seeing the set up in person and adjusting what may have been off....

Sorry it didn't work out, but don't let that deter you from getting another king...

[Ryodraco]

The OP has asked many questions and had an adequate set up by his description.
I offered him all I could without actually seeing the set up in person and adjusting what may have been off....

Sorry it didn't work out, but don't let that deter you from getting another king...
Many thanks for your support. I'm quite willing to accept I made mistakes and act accordingly, but I was not prepared to be accused of being uninformed and foolish here as I tried hard not to be.

[Jlassiter]

Yea.....that guy doesn't have a clue how much info we shared.... He/she is very quick to prejudge.

[infernalis]

Many thanks for your support. I'm quite willing to accept I made mistakes and act accordingly, but I was not prepared to be accused of being uninformed and foolish here as I tried hard not to be.

We all are "uninformed and foolish" at one point. Even the most hardcore reptile keepers have lost animals during learning curves.

I find it upsetting when the more seasoned keepers forget the sometimes embarrassing situations they once allowed to happen in their own history.

[shaunyboy]

Well I have to say a few things.
First off he was in your car and you couldn't find him? Please. I would have the interior ripped out before I gave up. Brutal. The reason he didn't come out was because his cage is all open. You got to cover the sides and back. Research a snake before getting one. Kings will sometimes spend lots of time just sitting in their hides. He hid under the aspen because you provide almost no cover. Is your heat mat in the middle? Did you provide a heat gradient so he could thermoregulate? Man I hate to chew on people here but you killed your snake. If you get another please learn how to take care of it first.

^^^^
i feel that was a tad harsh mate.... (i don't want to argue and i'm not being cheeky)

a new snake owner,has come on here for the first time and been COMPLETELY HONEST with us,i feel theres no need to tare them a new arsehole mate

theres plenty folk made mistakes allowing a snake to escape,also Jlassiter imo is a GOOD mentor to have

re the car
theres a post on a UK forum,where the guy tore out the WHOLE interior,dash,consoles,etc wrecking a ford mondeo car and they still did NOT find the snake,they even had the local fire brigade out with thermal imaging and heat sensitive equiptment,to see if the snake was in the panels,chassis of the car and still no snake

re heat mat
your correct in pointing out,that it looks like the heat mat was in the middle of the tank,but you could have advised on where it should be placed..OP the heat mat should be a 3rd the way under one end of the tank...this creates a hot end and a cool end,allowing the snake to thermoregulate at a temperature of it's choosing

re covering the tank
as said,it would have been better if you covered,the back and both sides of the tank with paper,this would make the snake feel more secure,so more chance of it being less stressed and eating,there have been times i've had a nervous feeder,where i've had to cover the whole tank,leaving only a 5 inch square at the front of the tank uncovered

also a few more hides,fake plants,etc to bulk up the tank,giving the snake more hiding places,again this will make it feel more secure and less stressed

to the op
under handling a snake will NOT put it off food,or make it fearful all the time....

i only handle my snakes when 100% neccessary,that said its ALWAYS best to NOT handle a snake,until its eating regular,i always suggest waiting until a snakes eaten 3 or 4 feeds in a row,before regular handling

a snake feels MORE secure and LESS stressed if it's left ALONE,in peace and quiet

you have made a few honest mistakes,so please don't beat yourself up over it,imo we learn more from mistakes than our successes at times

imo its unlikely you will find your snake now,that said stranger things have happened in the snake world

^^^^
the above is merely my opinion folks

cheers shaun

[Jlassiter]

Like------^

[shaunyboy]

Like------^

thanks mate...

imo tearing a new arse on NEW snake keeper,who have been honest,forthcoming and put a lot of effort into researching,is NOT the way THIS forum operates...

it was GOOD to see Wayne come in so quickly,considering he just went through a superstorm (kudo's mate)

cheers shaun

[KORBIN5895]

Well Ryodraco, my only advice is to pick John's brain as much as you can. It seems he is willing to take you in under his wing and I personally would jump on that with both feet.

[Terranaut]

Ok. Maybe I was a bit harsh. It truly hurts me when I see a first post from someone and its about how they lost an animal and not how can I help it. When I see stuff about it being left in the car and 40 degrees at night I get real upset because I personaly would have gone to much great lengths to find it. This was post 1 for the op and it is a sad story. Its just very sad to hear a snake lost in this way. So yes I apologize to the op for being harsh. I'm just very disapointed it ends with a king lost in a car and most likely dead. Next time post husbandry questions BEFORE this happens not stories of how tradgic it ends :(

[Ryodraco]

OP the heat mat should be a 3rd the way under one end of the tank...this creates a hot end and a cool end,allowing the snake to thermoregulate at a temperature of it's choosing
Just to be clear the heat mat isn't in the center, albeit the sensor for the thermostat is on the outer edge of where the heat mat is placed.

Basically my right half of the tank has the heat mat under it, the other half doesn't.

re covering the tank
as said,it would have been better if you covered,the back and both sides of the tank with paper,this would make the snake feel more secure,so more chance of it being less stressed and eating
Again I'd like to do this, but how best to do it? You say paper but what kind? How can I attach it securely? What color should it be? Has anyone tried the static-cling backings they sell at pet stores? Even that though wouldn't solve covering the sides...

also a few more hides,fake plants,etc to bulk up the tank,giving the snake more hiding places,again this will make it feel more secure and less stressed
I did have a big grapevine branch in there but when I added the large moss hide there was no longer room for it. I can get another that will fit or try cutting the existing one.

As for other hides I am not sure where they could go unless I took out some of the other stuff in there.

to the op
under handling a snake will NOT put it off food,or make it fearful all the time....

i only handle my snakes when 100% neccessary,that said its ALWAYS best to NOT handle a snake,until its eating regular,i always suggest waiting until a snakes eaten 3 or 4 feeds in a row,before regular handling

a snake feels MORE secure and LESS stressed if it's left ALONE,in peace and quiet
This was what I believed to be the general case, and I still do, yet a seemingly authoritative book on corn snakes I looked at recently went on for some time on the many benefits of handling, which included making the snakes less nervous, exercising them, helping them digest and defecate more easily, and even improving egg laying etc. I'm not saying I agree, but I don't discount it fully either.

Well Ryodraco, my only advice is to pick John's brain as much as you can. It seems he is willing to take you in under his wing and I personally would jump on that with both feet.
He has taught me a lot but as he said he has done all he can without being there in person so I rather not risk overdoing it with the questions.:D I didn't even know he was on this forum until after I joined and posted this topic.

Ok. Maybe I was a bit harsh. It truly hurts me when I see a first post from someone and its about how they lost an animal and not how can I help it. When I see stuff about it being left in the car and 40 degrees at night I get real upset because I personaly would have gone to much great lengths to find it. This was post 1 for the op and it is a sad story. Its just very sad to hear a snake lost in this way. So yes I apologize to the op for being harsh. I'm just very disapointed it ends with a king lost in a car and most likely dead. Next time post husbandry questions BEFORE this happens not stories of how tradgic it ends
No hard feelings, but just to be clear I did ask most of these questions and others on another forum before all this happened. Basically I am asking again here in hopes of learning more and seeing what I somehow missed.

As for the cold nights, it was a bad coincidence that he went missing the very day a cold front struck. It didn't last long though so he may have survived it, but there is still no sign of him...

[rmfsnakes32]

You need to pull up thr carpet on the floorboards and remove the entire das (take pics pf it as you gp so you will know where everything goes righy back together) and good like I I had to guess he is up under thee dash where the fuse box is some of those wires are hot at all times good juck

[Terranaut]

Ok well here I will try to be more constructive.
Have you pulled out the back seat? The floor under the seat gets warm from the fuel pump and its like a hide there. They can also access the trunk there so check the trunk. I have my fingers crossed for you but man 40 degrees at night.

[jaleely]

a sports store (not sure where else, but i know there are other places) will have the 8 hour heat pads (air activated) that you can place throughout the car. I'd put them under a cloth and check it every couple hours to see if you can find the snake hiding under it and on the warmth.

i didn't read one of the big long posts here you did towards the end (i need to go to bed lol) but just reading the first, sounds like he was just going into burmation...BUT he could have also been sick. If the oldies think you had everything set up properly, it may just have been he was sick.

HIding in a car...that is a hard, hard thing. I don't know what i would do. I can't imagine trying to get a snake out of that.
Providing a hot spot, maybe a mouse (doubtful he'd eat if he was already coldish and didn't want to eat). Provide water...sorry i can't give you more advice! totally sucks : (

[Ryodraco]

You need to pull up thr carpet on the floorboards and remove the entire das (take pics pf it as you gp so you will know where everything goes righy back together) and good like I I had to guess he is up under thee dash where the fuse box is some of those wires are hot at all times good juck
I have taken apart some of it with my Dad's help as he knows more about cars, but even he can't figure out how to remove most of the dash on this car (an Elantra).

Ok well here I will try to be more constructive.
Have you pulled out the back seat? The floor under the seat gets warm from the fuel pump and its like a hide there. They can also access the trunk there so check the trunk. I have my fingers crossed for you but man 40 degrees at night.
The back seats can't be removed, they are solid with no way to get in or under as far as I can tell.

[jhinton6932]

I find it upsetting when the more seasoned keepers forget the sometimes embarrassing situations they once allowed to happen in their own history.

as 2chainz would say, TRUETIGHT infernalis!

[Terranaut]

Try these. Please find your snake. Its only missing until you stop looking.


http://www.elantraxd.com/DIY/oemseat7.jpg
Elantraxd.com - Seat Install/Removal (http://www.elantraxd.com/DIY/oemseat.php)
DIY Project 28 (http://elantragtclub.tripod.com/elantra/id261.html)

[Ryodraco]

Try these. Please find your snake. Its only missing until you stop looking.


http://www.elantraxd.com/DIY/oemseat7.jpg
Elantraxd.com - Seat Install/Removal (http://www.elantraxd.com/DIY/oemseat.php)
DIY Project 28 (http://elantragtclub.tripod.com/elantra/id261.html)
I don't see any way he could have gotten under the back seats though, there are no holes, even small ones. So I'm more interested in getting the dashboard off, but some searches on the internet have mostly shown me only how difficult it is to do. And given my work often involves transporting people's pet dogs I can't afford to have the interior of my car in pieces that I can't figure out how to put back together.

This remark I read on http://www.hyundaiforum.com sums up things pretty well, it was in reply to someone who had lost a ring down the defroster vents:

I/we did my sons 04 and it's an ugly job. We took our time and a lot of it. If you need the full dash out then plan on taking the front seats and console out and possibly the steering wheel.

Don't expect to do it in a weekend. Yes it's that bad.

On the same topic someone quoted $500 as a price a repair person asked for taking the full dash out.:no:

<><><>

Know though I have not stopped looking, I look every time I drive it and in the mornings and evenings hoping to see something. I just haven't yet.

<><><>

Leaving that aside, I still would like to hear how to most effectively cover up the back and sides of the tank.

[KORBIN5895]

Use construction paper or spray paint.

[shaunyboy]

Use construction paper or spray paint.

i just tape brown wrapping paper,on the outside of the tank,round the sides and back of the tank,if its a really nervous snake,i tape up the front of the tank,leaving a small square window

cheers shaun

[Ryodraco]

i just tape brown wrapping paper,on the outside of the tank,round the sides and back of the tank,if its a really nervous snake,i tape up the front of the tank,leaving a small square window

cheers shaun
Doesn't the tape come undone over time? Not to mention it may not look all that nice... or maybe I am really off here, do you have any pictures?

Paint I have considered, except I'm really sensitive to paint fumes and have no experience using spray paint...

[Ryodraco]

Well some good news. Today I confirmed Ryu was still alive when I felt a tingling sensation on my legs and looked down to see he had poked his head out from around the steering column!:eek:

To my immense frustration however I was at that time driving at a high rate of speed through heavy traffic. I pulled over less than a minute later but that was more than enough time for him to disappear back into the dephs of the dash and no amount of looking or pleading revealed any further sign of him...:sad: Looking back I wonder if I should have just grabbed him with one hand but in addition to the traffic I was worried about hurting him if I gripped wrong.

His moss hide and waterbowl are in the car so provided he uses them he won't die of thirst, but after over four months of not eating I don't know how long he can last in there...

[Terranaut]

A heated hide is what you need in there. If it gets real cold again he will try to go in there in the night. Try looking for him after dark. I know its harder to see him but it's also more likely for him to come out. Would like to see this one found. I have a soft spot for "missing" snakes as you have seen. Personaly I would not sleep until he was returned to his viv.

[Terranaut]

Well have you found it yet? I still have trouble with this entire thread.

[KORBIN5895]

Me too. I wouldn't be driving your car until you found him. Too many moving parts for him to get caught in.

[Terranaut]

Well I wasn't going to do this but I have to. Somewhere you 3 missed the point.
Losing a snake is fine. Not good but it happens. Leaving it to die overnight at near freezing temps is not. I thought I over reacted at first but I did not. This is a case of a replacement being cheaper than having a car ripped apart to find what was lost. This is animal abuse hands down. Even if it was unintentional.
I didn't over react you 3 did.




^^^^
i feel that was a tad harsh mate.... (i don't want to argue and i'm not being cheeky)

a new snake owner,has come on here for the first time and been COMPLETELY HONEST with us,i feel theres no need to tare them a new arsehole mate

theres plenty folk made mistakes allowing a snake to escape,also Jlassiter imo is a GOOD mentor to have



^^^^
the above is merely my opinion folks

cheers shaun
Mistakes I can handle ,neglect is sometging else. I don't understand where you missed it.


We all are "uninformed and foolish" at one point. Even the most hardcore reptile keepers have lost animals during learning curves.

I find it upsetting when the more seasoned keepers forget the sometimes embarrassing situations they once allowed to happen in their own history.

As it upsets me to have you support someone who is letting cost decide wether or not to save the life of the animal in their care.

Yea.....that guy doesn't have a clue how much info we shared.... He/she is very quick to prejudge.

Yes I am quick to judge people who decide it's cheaper to buy another than save the life of the one they lost under their care. And to top it off you think he should get another!!


If you guys want to mentor the op start with the morals of owning pets.

[rmfsnakes32]

At least you know he is alive get a heat pad going in a few spots.

[Ryodraco]

Losing a snake is fine. Not good but it happens. Leaving it to die overnight at near freezing temps is not. I thought I over reacted at first but I did not. This is a case of a replacement being cheaper than having a car ripped apart to find what was lost. This is animal abuse hands down. Even if it was unintentional.
The fact of the matter is if he dies in there I will have to have the car ripped apart anyway. So no it is not simply a matter of cost. I was advised initially to wait and so I have. The guy who told me this has lost a few snakes in cars before over many years.

It is sadly also a matter of what I can and can't do. Right now I have a LOT of work and can't have the car stay at a repair place all day. Since he still hasn't come out I do intend to get the dashboard taken apart as soon as I can provided my car guy is willing to do it.

Also as for leaving him out that first (and really only) cold night, I didn't even know a cold front was coming in until it was too late to do anything about it.

Gotta say this is the first time in my life anyone has ever accused me of animal abuse...:(

[rmfsnakes32]

Unfortunatr accidents do happen. Next time transport the snake in a tote with clamps.

[Terranaut]

Well let me ask you this...
If you locked a dog in your car , lost the keys and lived in Texas on a hot day would you have watched it die and pulled the corpse later or broke the window?
I would have broke the window rather than just leave it 'till its convenient for me.
The snake dying in the car is 100% preventable. Be responsible and save it.
Did you add something warm yet? Somehow I doubt it :(

[KORBIN5895]

The fact of the matter is if he dies in there I will have to have the car ripped apart anyway. So no it is not simply a matter of cost. I was advised initially to wait and so I have. The guy who told me this has lost a few snakes in cars before over many years.

It is sadly also a matter of what I can and can't do. Right now I have a LOT of work and can't have the car stay at a repair place all day. Since he still hasn't come out I do intend to get the dashboard taken apart as soon as I can provided my car guy is willing to do it.

Also as for leaving him out that first (and really only) cold night, I didn't even know a cold front was coming in until it was too late to do anything about it.

Gotta say this is the first time in my life anyone has ever accused me of animal abuse...:(

First off you should be very wary of advice from someone that lost several snakes in a car. How does that happen more than once?

Secondly if you have to remove the dash anyway do it before he dies. I don't know what's going on in your life but you need to prioritize. I do understand if other priorities come first but if that snake isn't near the top don't bother getting another.

[Ryodraco]

Well let me ask you this...
If you locked a dog in your car , lost the keys and lived in Texas on a hot day would you have watched it die and pulled the corpse later or broke the window?
I would have broke the window rather than just leave it 'till its convenient for me.
The snake dying in the car is 100% preventable. Be responsible and save it.
Taking apart the dash is a good deal more difficult than breaking the window, and again I had been operating under the assumption that he would be okay assuming he was actually in there (until I saw him I didn't know for sure if he was). The guy who advised me had a snake in a car for a month and got it out just fine (and to be clear I don't really know if he has lost multiple snakes in his car, he only mentioned that one). My main concern was that he hasn't eaten in so long.

Did you add something warm yet? Somehow I doubt it :(
It has not been getting notably cold since that first night, indeed I have goen out at night and found it to still be warm in the car. Also while people have been mentioning heat pads nobody has said anything about how I can get them to work in a car for a long amount of time. Do I need to buy specialized adaptors?

[Terranaut]

No it is not. Putting the dash back together maybe but have you pulled off even 1 screw or poped off one piece of trim. And your adapter question. Omg man. Put a heat pad on a plate an cover it with aspen or something. Then use an extension cord. Get creative in some way. Figure it out. Save the snake. The longer you leave it the more likely it is to find a way out. If the temps aren't a concern for you have no worry about the food. No water will kill it before it starves. Have you got on your back with a light and looked up the dash? You are seriously not following due diligence. You chose to keep this animal. You control its destiny. Now go get it out of your car man!!!

[KORBIN5895]

I think Melissa recommended air activated heat pad and also mentioned where to find them.

[Ryodraco]

For whatever it is worth I have scheduled with our car guy to try to get the dash off tomorrow. Hopefully we can as even he seems to think it won't be easy.

No it is not. Putting the dash back together maybe but have you pulled off even 1 screw or poped off one piece of trim.
Yes I have. Further as I said before I had my father help with trying to take the dash apart as he has done it in other vehicles. However even he couldn't figure out how to do it.

No water will kill it before it starves.
Well I am leaving water in there, it's just it has been over four months since he last ate... I know some snakes can go for much longer than that, but I didn't think kingsnakes could.

Have you got on your back with a light and looked up the dash?
Yes I have, repeatedly. Heck after I sighted him while driving I pulled over and searched under the driver's side for so long I feared passers-bye might think I was trying to hot-wire the car or something. It is frankly amazing how easily Ryu hides in there.

[Ryodraco]

At least 400 dollars to get the dash off due to its design. Further, our car guy couldn't do it today. Indeed he said it would take all day to get the dash off and another day to get it back on.

The fact is I have animals owned by others under my care who I need to get to in order to feed and water them. Could I afford to get the dash off? Yes. Could I make use of another car if I have to? Yes. But can I stay at the car shop all day waiting for the moment they find him? No. At least not this week.

I'm going to try for the heating pad with a hide over it and see how that works provided I can rig a extension cord right. Even if it doesn't get that cold at night hopefully the heat pad could still be attractive.

Please try to understand my frustration over all this, it's tearing me up inside. I've never encountered a situation like this before, and indeed never imagined I would. I just don't know what more to do. I'm not looking for pity but condemning me as a fool and an animal abuser is not going to help Ryu either.

[Terranaut]

The whole idea of a heated hide was to lure him out. So you can find him. This is the single most preventable/fixable/contained lost snake I have seen on the net. How many days have gone by? You have been given methods of finding it and haven't followed them. How could you not? Seriously just get off the computer and get him out or do what has been recomended. Debate your case later. Take your lumps and go find the snake. Now!!

For when you find and bag him
Overhand Knot | How to tie the Overhand Knot | The Basics Knots (http://www.animatedknots.com/overhand/index.php?Categ=basics&LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com)

[Ryodraco]

The whole idea of a heated hide was to lure him out. So you can find him. This is the single most preventable/fixable/contained lost snake I have seen on the net. How many days have gone by? You have been given methods of finding it and haven't followed them. How could you not? Seriously just get off the computer and get him out or do what has been recomended. Debate your case later. Take your lumps and go find the snake. Now!!
You act as if it is so simple... again I have never encountered a situation like this before and the initial advice I got from someone I trusted was to wait and check at morning and night to see if he had come out. This is what I have been doing. Until last Saturday I wasn't even certain he was still in the car, and once I was I had to deal with a work schedule that requires me to use my car a great deal.

In hindsight should I have tried a heating pad earlier? Yes, but all I can say is I am doing so now.

My apologies if I sound harsh but this whole situation is very upsetting. Do you think I would have spent so much money on Ryu and his enclosure if I wasn't serious about owning a snake?

[KORBIN5895]

The answer to your last question is yes. I see people drop big bucks on snakes all the time and just get bored in a couple of months.

[Ryodraco]

The answer to your last question is yes. I see people drop big bucks on snakes all the time and just get bored in a couple of months.
Well it's been close to a year and I have no intention of becoming bored. I got Ryu with full knowledge he was likely to live for over a decade.

[KORBIN5895]

Well it's been close to a year and I have no intention of becoming bored. I got Ryu with full knowledge he was likely to live for over a decade.

Honestly I am not seeing the responsibility or the commitment.

[Terranaut]

Well it's been close to a year and I have no intention of becoming bored. I got Ryu with full knowledge he was likely to live for over a decade.

Or 2 decades. Seriously doubt he will be around for long at this rate.
I had a good laugh at the " spend all this money" bit. A king and a cage, what you spent like $100 right. Thats not a lot lol!!
Find him yet? Try the warm hide yet? Do anything about this yet?

[Lankyrob]

I have kept out of posting in this thread cos everytime i read something in it i ge pissed off.

It has now been over TWO WEEKS since this snake went missing and you STILL havent had the car ripped apart??

This is a living breathing creature that deserves MUCH MUCH better than it is getting in terms of treatment. If it was me, then the first day it happened i would have blown off all my other commitments and had the car ripped apart if that was what is necessary in order to save my pet regardless of the cost.

It seems from what i am reading that you have decided that if it survives then fine but if it die in the car then "oh well" :no:

[Ryodraco]

Or 2 decades. Seriously doubt he will be around for long at this rate.
I had a good laugh at the " spend all this money" bit. A king and a cage, what you spent like $100 right. Thats not a lot lol!!
Find him yet? Try the warm hide yet? Do anything about this yet?
Try over three hundred dollars, sixty for the snake, a hundred and fifty for the terrarium, thirty or so for the heating pad, plus a thermostat, bedding, water bowl, hides, climbing branch etc.

And yes, he has multiple heating pads and hides running every night.

I have kept out of posting in this thread cos everytime i read something in it i ge pissed off.

It has now been over TWO WEEKS since this snake went missing and you STILL havent had the car ripped apart??

This is a living breathing creature that deserves MUCH MUCH better than it is getting in terms of treatment. If it was me, then the first day it happened i would have blown off all my other commitments and had the car ripped apart if that was what is necessary in order to save my pet regardless of the cost.

It seems from what i am reading that you have decided that if it survives then fine but if it die in the car then "oh well" :no:
And yet such advice seems to be far different from what I am getting from others, and also seems rather unrealistic. The car guy (an old friend of the family) was quite against taking the car apart, due to the difficulty of doing it, the time involved, and how it was possible the snake would not even be found if he did. A reptile enthusiast acquaintance told me it would be "stupid" to take the dash apart as the snake would move to another hiding place.

I am going to keep using water, heating pads and hides in the car, and I am thankful for all the advice I got here. If this all ends badly I'll have to live with the results for the rest of my life, if nothing else it is a mistake that will never be repeated if I can help it. Arguing further here though will serve no purpose so I'll spare you and the rest of the forum that.

[Lankyrob]

Try over three hundred dollars, sixty for the snake, a hundred and fifty for the terrarium, thirty or so for the heating pad, plus a thermostat, bedding, water bowl, hides, climbing branch etc.

And yes, he has multiple heating pads and hides running every night.


And yet such advice seems to be far different from what I am getting from others, and also seems rather unrealistic. The car guy (an old friend of the family) was quite against taking the car apart, due to the difficulty of doing it, the time involved, and how it was possible the snake would not even be found if he did. A reptile enthusiast acquaintance told me it would be "stupid" to take the dash apart as the snake would move to another hiding place.

I am going to keep using water, heating pads and hides in the car, and I am thankful for all the advice I got here. If this all ends badly I'll have to live with the results for the rest of my life, if nothing else it is a mistake that will never be repeated if I can help it. Arguing further here though will serve no purpose so I'll spare you and the rest of the forum that.

This just doesnt make any sense to me at all, start where the snake was last seen and deconstruct until it is found, obviuosly you stay there with the mechanic and help search and if the snake starts moving around there are two pairs of hands to capture it.

Time/difficulty/cost shouldnt really come into it in terms of saving a healthy animal :(

[KORBIN5895]

Wow. Just wow. I hope you never get anything that takes true commitment and time. This is really getting sad.

[Terranaut]

Find him yet??

[Ryodraco]

Wow. Just wow. I hope you never get anything that takes true commitment and time. This is really getting sad.
I said I would stop replying to this (though I should add the proviso that I will let people know if there is good news) but would like to point out that the criticisms toward me here seem to be centered entirely on:

1. My lack of experience in dealing with a snake lost in a car and thus my lack of speed in using all the methods recommended.
2. My not being willing to simply tear the car apart and abandon all my other responsibilities on the chance that he could be found this way.

And given I currently own and have for years fish, cats and dogs successfully and have in the past owned clawed frogs and rats I think its fair to say your assessment of my ability to commit is off base.

Find him yet??
Still no sign. In addition to water, hides and heating pads I'm also leaving dead mice in the car.

There is good news though, I have managed to get in touch with a acquaintance of a friend whose husband is an engineer. They love snakes and he believes he can get into some parts of the car where Ryu may be, albeit even he says he can't get most of the dash off. They are also adamant though that I shouldn't go out and have the car taken apart. Here's hoping tomorrow we can find him.

[MoreliAddict]

Has he found and eaten any of the mice?

Seriously, if you see him again, you need to just grab him...

[Terranaut]

Its to bad you didn't drop all commitments the momment you noticed he escaped. You would have him now and we would be helping you learn to care for him instead of banging our heads against the wall wondering how long this will go on. The odds of him having escaped the car are very good. All cars have vents so you don't blow your ears out when you close the door. If he finds one of them (usually in the trunk) hes gone. Time was never on your side. Thus our displeasure with how long you are taking.

[KORBIN5895]

Time to drop it Dan. This kid doesn't have two clues about his responsibility to this snake or why he is really being criticized.

[Ryodraco]

Has he found and eaten any of the mice?
No, not yet.

Seriously, if you see him again, you need to just grab him...
I fully intend to.

Time to drop it Dan. This kid doesn't have two clues about his responsibility to this snake or why he is really being criticized.
Again most of the criticism seems to be centered on that I haven't been willing/able to tear my car apart, when fellow snake keepers who actually know me have told me I shouldn't do this and soundly criticized the comments here (indeed I have been told to simply not come on here anymore, but I rather not leave this place). Other criticism is centered on my not putting out the heat mats soon enough and for that I can only plead ignorance to not realizing the purpose of them immediately.

[Terranaut]

Time to drop it Dan. This kid doesn't have two clues about his responsibility to this snake or why he is really being criticized.

I am hoping the snake is alive. Thats all. Poor thing :(

I don't see any posts at all supporting you after the few posts. So who are they??

[Lankyrob]

No, not yet.


I fully intend to.


Again most of the criticism seems to be centered on that I haven't been willing/able to tear my car apart, when fellow snake keepers who actually know me have told me I shouldn't do this and soundly criticized the comments here (indeed I have been told to simply not come on here anymore, but I rather not leave this place). Other criticism is centered on my not putting out the heat mats soon enough and for that I can only plead ignorance to not realizing the purpose of them immediately.

So people who you know are supporting you but strangers aren't, strange i have never experienced that :no:

Of course your acquaintances are going to be more supportive, they dont want to hurt your feelings. Whereas we are ore interested in the best for the animal rather than your feelings

[Ryodraco]

Of course your acquaintances are going to be more supportive, they dont want to hurt your feelings. Whereas we are ore interested in the best for the animal rather than your feelings
And yet you also seem to ignore how difficult it has been for me to do the only suggestion that I haven't followed (take the dash apart). Keep in mind I know next-to-nothing about taking apart dashboards so I can't do it myself and my car guy was very against doing it. I also can't go back in time and put heat pads in earlier than I did.

The acquaintance mentioned in an earlier post did manage to get into some parts of the car today, but he found nothing and there were many parts he could not get into.

I have not given up, and will continue to put heating pads, water and hides out for Ryu, but it does seem increasingly likely he at some point escaped the car. Hate me all you want, it certainly can't compare to how much I hate myself for my foolishness in hindsight, but at the same time I am confident I did what I could with what I knew at the time and what was feasible for me to do.

If nothing else my tale can be a cautionary one to any other new snake owners transporting their snakes. Either keep them in a locked container and/or have the container in sight at all times, having them in sight most of the time is not enough as it only takes a moment for them to slip out and away.

[TaylorWalker]

I've just read all four pages of this thread, and can literally say that i have never felt more sorry for any snake in my entire life. This is pathetic. I really hope poor Ryu is found soon.

[Terranaut]

Yup. We sure tried though. I mean us not the OP.

[TaylorWalker]

Ya, i can see. It's just sad.

[lady_bug87]

Ryodraco, I am sorry this happened to you. Chances are its either gone or dead.

There were mistakes made and that is no doubt your fault. I don't blame you for not wanting to tear apart your car.

My question is: Have you learned from this?

[Ryodraco]

My question is: Have you learned from this?
Regardless of whether anyone here believes me or not the answer is a definitive yes. I also am not one to repeat mistakes.

[lady_bug87]

I believe you. I really don't think you intended on losing the snake or hurting it. I think it was a lot of bad luck following a few bad choices

Please don't let this color your view on keeping, or this forum.

[Ryodraco]

Please don't let this color your view on keeping, or this forum.
No worries there, I'm not so thin-skinned as to let criticism (a good portion of it deserved) stop me from benefiting from knowledge here.

[lady_bug87]

Good. Some of us may seem bitter and a little beat up but there are a lot of good solid keepers here with a lot of experience. If you like I'm sure you can PM Wayne (infernalis) or alessia to close this thread.

[Terranaut]

I really wish you could have found him :(

[Ryodraco]

Good. Some of us may seem bitter and a little beat up but there are a lot of good solid keepers here with a lot of experience. If you like I'm sure you can PM Wayne (infernalis) or alessia to close this thread.
Good idea, that way people can move to less depressing topics.

[Aaron_S]

The whole idea of a heated hide was to lure him out. So you can find him. This is the single most preventable/fixable/contained lost snake I have seen on the net. How many days have gone by? You have been given methods of finding it and haven't followed them. How could you not? Seriously just get off the computer and get him out or do what has been recomended. Debate your case later. Take your lumps and go find the snake. Now!!

For when you find and bag him
Overhand Knot | How to tie the Overhand Knot | The Basics Knots (http://www.animatedknots.com/overhand/index.php?Categ=basics&LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com)


Best post in here. Purely for the link.

It's about preventative measures and not recovery measures in this instance. I just want all future keepers to know that. There is no need for ANY keeper to have experience in this situation.