Appropriate supplies for monitor?

[Squirtle]

So, I'm thinking about asking my parents if I can get an Asian Water Monitor for Christmas after we bring my snakes back home (Albino Burmese Python and Tiger Reticulated Python). We'll be building my retic's 5 foot cage once he's back home with us, so I thought that maybe I can put my Asian Water Monitor inside his current 30 gallon long tank? What other supplies would I need? Also, can I leave cut-boiled eggs inside his cage for him to eat when ever while feeding him mice and maybe crickets 3-4 times a week? I'm planning on getting a baby monitor. Don't worry, I'd say I'm not a beginner since I used to own a Savannah Monitor. He used to be the coolest little dude, had him for a few months and he grew a lot! I didn't have the correct caging for him and didn't even own a thermostat back then so I had to re-home him :(. I remember one time I was eating something involving eggs for breakfast, I took my sav out to walk around the table and he went straight for the eggs! Literally went crazy for them so that is why I'm asking if I can feed my Asian Water Monitor eggs if I do get one.

[Jay]

So, I'm thinking about asking my parents if I can get an Asian Water Monitor for Christmas after we bring my snakes back home (Albino Burmese Python and Tiger Reticulated Python). We'll be building my retic's 5 foot cage once he's back home with us, so I thought that maybe I can put my Asian Water Monitor inside his current 30 gallon long tank? What other supplies would I need? Also, can I leave cut-boiled eggs inside his cage for him to eat when ever while feeding him mice and maybe crickets 3-4 times a week? I'm planning on getting a baby monitor. Don't worry, I'd say I'm not a beginner since I used to own a Savannah Monitor. He used to be the coolest little dude, had him for a few months and he grew a lot! I didn't have the correct caging for him and didn't even own a thermostat back then so I had to re-home him :(. I remember one time I was eating something involving eggs for breakfast, I took my sav out to walk around the table and he went straight for the eggs! Literally went crazy for them so that is why I'm asking if I can feed my Asian Water Monitor eggs if I do get one.

Change the mice to rats and no eggs. Hold off on getting a monitor, because its a long term commitment.

[StudentoReptile]

I agree. Stick to beardies and leopard geckos. You are a beginner if you think a 30-gal is adequate for any monitor.

I'll let the varanid gurus take over for this one.

[Squirtle]

I agree. Stick to beardies and leopard geckos. You are a beginner if you think a 30-gal is adequate for any monitor.

I'll let the varanid gurus take over for this one.

30 gallon for a baby, not for the monitors life. Guess I'll read a bit more before getting one :D

[BarelyBreathing]

Monitors cannot live in a fish tank, for ANY period of time.

[simpleyork]

Do you understand how fast a monitor really grows? my 11" ornate is not 11" inches anymore(he's only a year old) and downs rats every day. And they cost a lot to feed just saying.

[War Machine]

I second Monitor growth rate, 5-7" monthly with my albig.

BarelyBreathing is right, fish tanks are not suited for a monitor in anyway

[Pirarucu]

As stated above. Within a year you will be needing to make a massive, and I mean massive cage. 12'x6'x6' is what I would consider the minimum for a water monitor up to six feet. If it grew bigger, and they can, you would need to build an even larger cage.

[Aanayab1]

Not that the tank would be an appropriate home for these either but perhaps you may want to start with a dwarf monitor? The reason I say this is because the smallest monitor cage I know of is for an Ackie monitor and that is still 48"x24"x48" LxWxH. There are smaller species but the smaller the monitor is at adult size the larger its price tag gets, from what little I know. You are considering a monitor that will reach 4.9'-6.6' in length. That means from my best guess at an appropriate size cage, it will need to be a minimum of 13 feet long, 7 feet wide and 6 feet tall.... I know very little to nothing exact about the type of monitor you want so it could very well need more height if they are climbers...

If you are still living at home with the parents will they allow that size cage and animal in their home?

When you move out will you be able to take it with you?

An apartment really does not have room for that massive cage or a back yard it would be safe to put the cage in...

I have four 2.5ish month old ackies and they literally eat half their weight in insects daily. A large monitor that eats rats as a staple I would imagine at minimum one rat a day(which probably is not enough for an adult) for one month will cost $90+tax minimum (they are 3 bucks each at the local petstore). Are you willing to have a breeding rat colony in order to lower food cost? If so that in itself can be quite the task but would be well worth it(I would imagine).

Do the reading as you said you were going to but do not give up on something you truly want. Just knowing what you truly want is hard to figure out lol (well it was for me).

I'll fess up to something I'm fighting with personally right now. I have had my Ackies less than two months and I am already hooked and have decided that I want more monitors. I have decided to go with another dwarf species because I have plenty of room. I have the funds for the appropriate caging, food cost budgeted into my budget and the money to buy another 4. It is killing me to not just do it but I know what most would say is nothing about the species I recently acquired. I barely even know their daily routine for that matter and still can only tell 2 apart from the others. Two are bigger but I can't tell which is which unless they are out at same time. One is smaller than the other three and one is a little bit bigger than the smallest. So I'm rattling this off to show that it would be irresponsible for me to jump into more at this time. What I am doing is when I get burned out reading about ackies I go read about the other species in hopes that when the time comes I will know enough to get a good start.

You should read, read, ask questions, read, questions, read and read then come to a decision. Start buying the appropriate equipment. When you have no money to buy equipment and are tired of reading, start looking through this site for monitor enclosure threads and ask questions about them. Do not ever be afraid to ask something or assume you know the answer... it is not fair to the monitor if you are wrong (which we can all be at times).

In my personal opinion this is a list of things you must have.

- correct size cage for the animal as an adult.
- inferred temperature gun, I personally have two in the case I break one or lose one.
- feeding tongs, both short and long.
- welding gloves.
- multiple supply lines for food.
- a good understanding of all three different types of temperature and how to check them.
- a good understanding of gradient temperature and how important it is.
- HUMIDITY and its importance in the survival of the species you choose.
- DEEP SUBSTRATE and its role in the enclosure.
I know I probably missed a ton of things so feel free to ask and if I can't help you find the answer I know someone in this section will try their best to get you what you're looking for.

Sorry for the long read.
Antonio

[jhinton6932]

lol asian water monitors...ive been working with varanids by myself in MY private collection for 7 years. with my dad and his collection for 15. keep in mind im in my mid 20's. i got my own lizards (bearded dragons,jackson chams. when i was 8. even now, i would not say i'd want to properly house an asian water monitor, simply for these reasons.
1.they ALWAYS require cages with drainage system of some sort.
2.they can easily hit 6ft.
3.LARGE bodied. not slender-ish like your indos/aussies.
4.HUGE caging requirements. specs iv'e seen with priivate collections are like 10x6x6 minimum(most are larger)
5.im guessing your younger, so a 6ft, say 50lb monitor could very easily cause a great deal of damage to you. they are much more dangerous then even a retic or a burm.

i wanted my own collection so badly when i was in my teens but thankfully i wasn't allowed. i waited until i had stable housing, a good source of income, and the experience to do it myself (with help from advanced keepers as well) if your dead set on a monitor, go with an ackie. DO TONS OF RESEARCH. they are an easier species to keep/house but still require a good deal of time and effort. i forget who listed the tools you want to have around for monitors but that was all spot on. aslo, sorry for the lengthy post lol

[justme]

waters grow very slowly

can be extremely reclusive

can go off food at any time for any reason

when young have little tolerance for disease/bad conditions

can be nasty tempered even by monitor standards


still want one?

[justme]

I second Monitor growth rate, 5-7" monthly with my albig.

BarelyBreathing is right, fish tanks are not suited for a monitor in anyway

i read things like these and a little of me dies inside


try 1-1.5" for v.s.x if that

stop comparing these to other species.

[justme]

Do you understand how fast a monitor really grows? my 11" ornate is not 11" inches anymore(he's only a year old) and downs rats every day. And they cost a lot to feed just saying.


an adult runs you 200 a month in water power food, if that. and i live where cages have to be heated around the clock. hows that costing a lot?

food is less than half that bill

[jhinton6932]

an adult runs you 200 a month in water power food, if that. and i live where cages have to be heated around the clock. hows that costing a lot?

this is true with all species. lighting/heating a cage isnt costly assuming your not on welfare. thankyou for mentioning the food cost also. i order all of my frozen feeder from a site i trust. just an example here but i think i pay roughly 50cents per feeder, rats closer to a dollar. add it up, its not that much. just buy in bulk. (not 5 feeders a week from the pet shop) in terms of reptiles overall, yes monitors eat a lot. no need to make 2 posts about an error in growth rate,even though yes it is important when choosing housing for any species. lets help the original poster make an informed/mature decision.

[simpleyork]

You are correct I do not know how fast the typical Asian water monitor grows. Sorry for assuming.
Godzilla might get mad if she caught you calling her anything other then an Ornate monitor though, so please keep from name calling.

[Gatorhunter1231]

Well taken care of waters/salvators do not grow that slow. It seemed like three years ago the forums had several waters/salvators floating around. The ones who listened and got their settup right had 4ft waters in a years time. Not only that, water/salvators have several different localities which have different growth rates, maxium size, etc. I havent seen explosive rates like other monitor species but you can have a large water in 2 years time and they will bulk up heavy for the third year.
Not my pic but one I saved a few years back
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/bobswatermonitor.jpg
most will never be able to house a monitor of that size.
Indo monitors can put it on though
baby hellbound
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/reptiles/babyhellbound.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/hellboundslipped.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/reptiles/hellbound2.jpg
7 months
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/reptiles/reptiles001.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/reptiles/reptiles011.jpg
1 year
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/071.jpg

20inches to 6ft in one year on a species more skittish and reclusive if allowed. I'll go visit the cybersalvator and see what does guys have laying around.

@ Squirtle- a 30 gallon will not work for a water monitor. As stated, they are semi-reclusive when little and need security. You would be looking at an 16x8xheight can vary minium.
My croc cages were 11x15 and 10x13 shed that varied 7-8ft in height. It was still not enough room in my opinion. Water monitors have a larger snout to vent lenght and weigh more. In other words they are bigger then my crocs by physical mass and would look cramped to me.

[justme]

so youve never experienced that mythical growth that you perpetuate as truth? i almost had my hopes up but then i read 4ft in 1 year and smirked. lets leave it at that

im yet to get sustained rate of over 2"/month for males. doubt its them digesting the food overnight thats holding em back you know. females downright crawl in growth....


i havent kept salvadorii (which is whats above) and have no desire to so im not going to ponder on their rates, but is utterly irrelevant to the issue of mythical salvator growth

and frankly after a certain size its easier to convert a room rather than build an enclosure... humidity and water supply are the main hurdles (regular drywall will mold and fail at consistent high humidity so you are looking at redrywalling with wet type)

[infernalis]

If I was going to use a whole room approach, I would tile and grout the whole room like a shower stall at your local fitness gym or ball park.

Then humidity would never be a problem.

[jhinton6932]

I would tile and grout the whole room like a shower stall

which appears to be done in the enclosure above (last pic) personally, i wouldnt tile/grout it, but rather use linoleum or vinyl. much cheaper, easier to work with(i do flooring installs/restorations for a living lol) whoever's croc enclosure that is mad props. also, note the difference in girth from the watermonitor in #1 to the croc in the last pic. still both quite large but waters are more like a mastiff while the croc is like a boxer if that makes any sense?

[Gatorhunter1231]

Sorry wayne no good links of water monitor growth on ssnakess.
here is four month growth rate of a water monitor with pictures hehe
4 months of water monitor growth - Redtailboa.net (http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/monitors/45215-4-months-water-monitor-growth.html)
Cybersalvator is closed as they had lots of pics but I bet they will get me pics on its facebook page for more.
Varanus.nl doesnt allow me to link but I do have a few other examples sitting around.
How about you put up at least a pic or two of your well kept water monitor. For all we know you could just be someone reguratating info you have read and never even touched a water monitor.
easy with the boxer comments. After 7.5ft they bulk up nicely and you will be hard pressed to find many waters bigger then these guys :0. They don't hang out high above ground as much either once they get large. JME also reported this with his almost 9ft male.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/ElDiablo4.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/saintlouis.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/bigcroc2.jpg
"not my pics above"

[Gatorhunter1231]

well one more link
Monitors - Water monitor (http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Monitors/messages/2215210.html)
sexual maturity within 2 years duh duh duh

[Gatorhunter1231]

links to sal talking about his growth rate of monitor pictured above. More importantly it is backed by John A who runs cybersalvtor and probably knows more about water monitor complex then anyone else.Monitors - How fast do Salvator Water Monitors grow? (http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Monitors/messages/2226410.html)

[StudentoReptile]

Kudos for contributing to the thread, but no brownie points for using repticzone as a reference. :P

[Gatorhunter1231]

and redtailboa hehe. Sorry studento but the dedicated monitor forums won't let you link them. Not to mention I can't tell people to check out those sites because they rarely let any newbies in. Just drives me insane how someone who no one has heard can ramble away without ever showing pics of his/her animal or setup and people actually believe them. Goes for many reptile species out there. Heck when I got into croc monitors 10 years ago I was told they hit 6ft max normally and weighed less then 15lbs. Hellbound hit 6ft in one year and 20lbs, 8ft in 3 years and was eating small rabbits. Sources of information is very important (such as John A or Sal in this topic) but people rarely ask about someones sources. So sad we keep spinning backwards sometimes.

[StudentoReptile]

I understand.

You're saying other monitor forums do not allow people to link to their forum? So odd, most forums encourage increased traffic...

[Gatorhunter1231]

try to get on varanus.nl forum and you'll see what i mean (you access website but not forum). Cybersalvator went to facebook is says its a closed forum (I got invited). Varanus.net is a hard forum to follow (like kingsnake forums) and Frank doesn't offer a friendly hand to a newb wanting basic info. He wants to discuss advancements in the monitor world and focus on life events and producing generations.
Very very few us get monitors to live past 5 years. Fewer get eggs and even fewer hatch anything. The few experts get exhausted fighting with the newbs all the time that have had a single animal of a single species of monitor for a year or less and think they can rewrite the book on how it is done. Or they spit up info from others without ever understanding or applying the info they have gathered. Then they dissappear after a year or two. Most are snake people (which is were I started) and snakes are easy for the most part (easy enough to breed in racks) or they are trying to move up from beardies or leos (still easy).

[Gatorhunter1231]

Varanus.nl forum / Info (http://www.varanus.nl/forum1/viewtopic.php?pid=41225#p41225)
try that. Its not salvator related so OT

[Robyn@SYR]

waters grow very slowly

can be extremely reclusive

can go off food at any time for any reason

when young have little tolerance for disease/bad conditions

can be nasty tempered even by monitor standards


still want one?

Is this the "opposite game"?

Cause none of those are true...

[Gatorhunter1231]

LOL Robyn
When are you going to stop by and post some pics of those green trees you guys have ;)
or of JMEs Spinulosis you guys are raising. Quit being so greedy lol.
Cheers

[millertime89]

Is this the "opposite game"?

Cause none of those are true...

I was wondering... That's the exact opposite of what I've been told by quite a few people with years of raising Waters.
I 2nd the call for pics of the GTMs!

[philipniceguy]

and redtailboa hehe. Sorry studento but the dedicated monitor forums won't let you link them. Not to mention I can't tell people to check out those sites because they rarely let any newbies in. Just drives me insane how someone who no one has heard can ramble away without ever showing pics of his/her animal or setup and people actually believe them. Goes for many reptile species out there. Heck when I got into croc monitors 10 years ago I was told they hit 6ft max normally and weighed less then 15lbs. Hellbound hit 6ft in one year and 20lbs, 8ft in 3 years and was eating small rabbits. Sources of information is very important (such as John A or Sal in this topic) but people rarely ask about someones sources. So sad we keep spinning backwards sometimes.

Of topic slightly but I wish I got to grow a salvadorii up from a babie. got mine current two both at 4ft total length they now 6.5ft and growing.

I never had a salvator upto adulthood but I have had 12" babys and within 12 months there 3ft-4ft easyly everytime.

[jhinton6932]

haha those crocs just dwarf most monitors. i dont think i'd be ready to attempt to keep one just because of the size. maybe the mastiff to boxer comparison wasnt the right one but none the less, both of them are a huge species coming in behind KD's if im not forgetting any?

[KORBIN5895]

Thanks to Gatorhunter and Robyn for setting the record straight and providing proof.

[Barlow]

waters grow very slowly

can be extremely reclusive

can go off food at any time for any reason

when young have little tolerance for disease/bad conditions

can be nasty tempered even by monitor standards


still want one?
All the above is very true...............if your husbandry completely sucks!

[justme]

If I was going to use a whole room approach, I would tile and grout the whole room like a shower stall at your local fitness gym or ball park.

Then humidity would never be a problem.
you must still use water resistant drywall and backing below it. ive destroyed quite a few bathrooms till it was done right at my current place.

it adds little to initial cost but retrofitting it is up there and most people dont bother. then we get mold from behind tiles and grout within 2 years.

[justme]

Is this the "opposite game"?

Cause none of those are true...

prove it then.

no random internet forum posts either. ill be here when you rebutt each of the lines you quoted as untrue

[justme]

All the above is very true...............if your husbandry completely sucks!


do elaborate.

no?

[Barlow]

All waters don't grow slowly. I had one grow to 4 feet in 12 months 18 years ago on a diet of 100% day old chicks.

Once they have put on some size and become accustomed to the keeper they are one of the least reclusive monitors I have kept.

Monitors are food eating machines, Going off food is a sign that something isn't right. They eat right up to deaths door!

Little tolerance for disease? They thrive in the slums of asia???

Nasty by monitor standards? Waters can and often become the most docile of varanids in captivity. All of this is well documented.

[justme]

links to sal talking about his growth rate of monitor pictured above. More importantly it is backed by John A who runs cybersalvtor and probably knows more about water monitor complex then anyone else.Monitors - How fast do Salvator Water Monitors grow? (http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Monitors/messages/2226410.html)


re john, are you mixing vss and vsmacro by some chance? the two will not grow at same pace,

NONE of my indo macro imports have come anywhere to what 2-3 people say SOME of theirs achieved in growth rates. and ive even tried the bloody retes method of lights on 24/7 too that he claims does magic :rolleyes:

outside of what ive seen with my batches, the story is pretty much the same - slow growers. once you filter the whole nile monitor = asian water interchangeability

[KORBIN5895]

re john, are you mixing vss and vsmacro by some chance? the two will not grow at same pace,

NONE of my indo macro imports have come anywhere to what 2-3 people say SOME of theirs achieved in growth rates. and ive even tried the bloody retes method of lights on 24/7 too that he claims does magic :rolleyes:

outside of what ive seen with my batches, the story is pretty much the same - slow growers. once you filter the whole nile monitor = asian water interchangeability

So far you are one voice against three ( one of which provided links , one used personal experience and one is very well respected in the hero world) . I recommend you start backing up your posts.

[jhinton6932]

They eat right up to deaths door!
very true.
i know im just coming back to the forum world but this is true around the board in my experiences. (growth rates i have no experience with water monitors) hence i have not commented on it. this is the upside/downside of monitors. you can't judge a monitors health based on food intake. generally speaking they eat until a few days before they die. back to growth rates!

[Gatorhunter1231]

What is your deal with niles to waters comparsion. No one has said they are same here. Now you are breaking down to locality spefic when you made a broad statement on asian water monitors. I have been on forums for around 12 years and seen several people raise waters up successfully. Some made it to 3ft in a year and some went to 5ft with 4ft being around average. I do recognize that many didn't make it to this growth because the keepers did not support their monitors properly. Some took 6 months to get it right or they killed them off. Said story is waters monitors are like savs because they are cheap, available at most pet stores, and throw away monitors-after it dies you can get another.

P.S Rete stacks are mainly made for odataria and work for babies of other species if built correct. Most make there Rete stacks to open and forget to bury half of it.

Jody Pieper has several localties of waters and I never noticed slow rates on his as he posted pics.

Robyn is proexotics- who used to import probably hundreds of salvators through the years so I pretty sure he has a good grasp on them.

Plus Im still waiting on pics of yours and setup because I have more proof but don't want to share with a troll ;)

[StudentoReptile]

So far you are one voice against three ( one of which provided links , one used personal experience and one is very well respected in the herp world) . I recommend you start backing up your posts.

I agree. Practice what you preach.

[philipniceguy]

prove it then.

no random internet forum posts either. ill be here when you rebutt each of the lines you quoted as untrue

do elaborate.

no?

I have to add my part to this as it's sad to see someone with very poor idea of the growth rate (and everything else) of a stunning varanus sp that I had to show my own personal proof also with my most recent 2 salvators NOT NILES.

my most recent two varanus salvators got 04.02.2012 both 12" long as in this picture was taken on the 06.02.2012
http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/311215_296934130412841_1463763770_n.jpg

then the same two dated 24.06.2012
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/165876_258832407556347_1486718131_n.jpg
29.06.2012
http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/554962_261152407324347_1234645212_n.jpg

in just over 4 months they grew from 12" to 22" and 24" when I sold them on :mad:.

Some of my past waters had even faster growth rates. My varanus niloticus is a VERY differant varanus sp but yes they do grow faster (at first) but when they start to slow the waters are still growing strong from my own personal animalsgrowth rates.

That is my input into this varanus salvator salvator growth rate that proof enough for you??????????.

[Gatorhunter1231]

nice post. Love the chicken basket there :)

[jarich]

As always, well done Phillip. (and as always, so jealous!)

[Robyn@SYR]

prove it then.

no random internet forum posts either. ill be here when you rebutt each of the lines you quoted as untrue

We have raised thousands of Water monitors over the last 20 years. I know from direct experience that your claims are not accurate.

And that is working with imported babies.

And while a bit of a stick to the ribs to point out that poor husbandry can produce that type of poor result you posted, that is also true.

I don't post here often enough to know you or your background, so I can't comment on your success, good or bad. I just know that what you posted is completely opposite from our experience, and that of hundreds of other keepers.

If kept properly Water monitors grow very quickly, and if you are truly ready for the largest (mass) captive lizard and the vast requirements, they make a terrific captive lizard, "taming" down incredibly well.

I think the Blackthroats make for a better captive choice in the giant lizard category, but that is a different topic.

I also realize that croc monitors are longer, but not as massive, and that Komodos are more massive, but not available to the captive market.

And none of this matters when it comes to the choice of a Water monitor as (not) the best choice for a new/young keeper that may not be prepared for this kind of undertaking, which was the original topic...

[justme]

I have to add my part to this as it's sad to see someone with very poor idea of the growth rate (and everything else) of a stunning varanus sp that I had to show my own personal proof also with my most recent 2 salvators NOT NILES.

my most recent two varanus salvators got 04.02.2012 both 12" long as in this picture was taken on the 06.02.2012
http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/311215_296934130412841_1463763770_n.jpg

then the same two dated 24.06.2012
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/165876_258832407556347_1486718131_n.jpg
29.06.2012
http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/554962_261152407324347_1234645212_n.jpg

in just over 4 months they grew from 12" to 22" and 24" when I sold them on :mad:.

Some of my past waters had even faster growth rates. My varanus niloticus is a VERY differant varanus sp but yes they do grow faster (at first) but when they start to slow the waters are still growing strong from my own personal animalsgrowth rates.

That is my input into this varanus salvator salvator growth rate that proof enough for you??????????.

Yes this is precisely what i was looking for. Thanks!

[justme]

We have raised thousands of Water monitors over the last 20 years. I know from direct experience that your claims are not accurate.

And that is working with imported babies.

And while a bit of a stick to the ribs to point out that poor husbandry can produce that type of poor result you posted, that is also true.

I don't post here often enough to know you or your background, so I can't comment on your success, good or bad. I just know that what you posted is completely opposite from our experience, and that of hundreds of other keepers.

If kept properly Water monitors grow very quickly, and if you are truly ready for the largest (mass) captive lizard and the vast requirements, they make a terrific captive lizard, "taming" down incredibly well.

I think the Blackthroats make for a better captive choice in the giant lizard category, but that is a different topic.

I also realize that croc monitors are longer, but not as massive, and that Komodos are more massive, but not available to the captive market.

And none of this matters when it comes to the choice of a Water monitor as (not) the best choice for a new/young keeper that may not be prepared for this kind of undertaking, which was the original topic...

Lets not get into the whole "hundreds of keepers" nonsense.

Post your numbers like phillip did, and like i did. Then we can talk about why. But cut the whole argument with no numbers. You spent a lot of effort it seems to disprove something without saying anything of any fact in return.

Here's one i kept track off. Female, bought @ 13.9" in late 2009. Mid 2012 (july), at last measure, 3ft11". I suspect it will even out at 4.5' by the end of 2013. Sheds regularly, fed every day or every other day depending on size of last meal. VERY active (and vicious, but i suppose i should listen to you and expect it to magically tame itself)

The other male: bought at 15.5" in 2008. Grew at ~2" a month for the first 14 months, then he got a bit large to measure regularly (read: eat your fingers). Reached 48" in 2.2 years. Sold him since I got a good offer on him and honestly got tired of his attitude.

Since then, bunch of other guys im raising and moving along trying to come up with a breeding pair that *I* like. Breeding for temperament is ovverated and comical with lizards but it's what keeps ME entertained. So far... nothing really hit the mark. The new clutches are growing slower. If anything, i would like to think that my care has improved. So this either means that the imported stock has gone down in quality of has changed region of origin. they are all just growing slower, period.

Anybody with recent hatches that has kept track, post please. Numbers, don't care for opinions.

[Barlow]

Lets not get into the whole "hundreds of keepers" nonsense.

Post your numbers like phillip did, and like i did. Then we can talk about why. But cut the whole argument with no numbers. You spent a lot of effort it seems to disprove something without saying anything of any fact in return.

Here's one i kept track off. Female, bought @ 13.9" in late 2009. Mid 2012 (july), at last measure, 3ft11". I suspect it will even out at 4.5' by the end of 2013. Sheds regularly, fed every day or every other day depending on size of last meal. VERY active (and vicious, but i suppose i should listen to you and expect it to magically tame itself)

The other male: bought at 15.5" in 2008. Grew at ~2" a month for the first 14 months, then he got a bit large to measure regularly (read: eat your fingers). Reached 48" in 2.2 years. Sold him since I got a good offer on him and honestly got tired of his attitude.

Since then, bunch of other guys im raising and moving along trying to come up with a breeding pair that *I* like. Breeding for temperament is ovverated and comical with lizards but it's what keeps ME entertained. So far... nothing really hit the mark. The new clutches are growing slower. If anything, i would like to think that my care has improved. So this either means that the imported stock has gone down in quality of has changed region of origin. they are all just growing slower, period.

Anybody with recent hatches that has kept track, post please. Numbers, don't care for opinions.
You really do talk crap mate. You completely dismiss other peoples experiences because you don't have the same results yet you won't post photos of your set ups or lizards for comparison. And now the icing on the cake is that you move them on because you are breeding for temperement. Do you even know you have the skills to breed them. Judging by your growth rates I would suggest not! And you move them on at sizes where they are still going to be flighty and defensive. Temperement with waters should be judged at sizes larger than you are raising them to. I feel sorry for your animals. If they be themselves then you move them on. Do us a favour and buy a dog. Maybe you had one but moved it on because it knawed at you as a puppy!!!!

[Robyn@SYR]

Lets not get into the whole "hundreds of keepers" nonsense.

I am no king of the world, but I have been around the block a few times. I've done a couple of things in the monitor world.

Your posts are really, really naive.

But good for a chuckle. Best of luck with your animals.

[infernalis]

Frank is that you?

[KORBIN5895]

Frank is that you?

Good to see you're still here! ;)

I was wondering the same thing but he spells too well to be Frank. Just as arrogant and just a ignorant in actually providing proof.

[jhinton6932]

justme you have done nothing but chat nonsense without any visual evidence or any evidence at all to back anything up. and roughly 2.5 years later you witnessed only ~3ft of growth in a species that easily reaches 6 feet? that is contradicting what varanids are designed to do: get big quickly. neonates and juveniles often are low in the food chain. to grow that slowly wouldn't make sense. even in nature where mother nature does not provide ideal temps/humidity 24/7, they still grow much more quickly.
here is a link containing a wild study on salvator. www.taprobanica.com/download_thasun.php?article=14sig2=Z1sl6LLaz8r1Vji uqJKx-Q it is a pdf file. if it does not work for you please pm me as i will send it to you :)

[Aanayab1]

Frank is that you?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You're killing me over here, my face is actually sore from smiling.

Roughly 2.5 years later you witnessed only ~3ft of growth in a species that easily reaches 6 feet? that is contradicting what varanids are designed to do: get big quickly. neonates and juveniles often are low in the food chain. to grow that slowly wouldn't make sense. even in nature where mother nature does not provide ideal temps/humidity 24/7, they still grow much more quickly.


Exactly what I have been trying my best to logically process....

I'm not tying to get into all this debate but I want to state that I have been reading up on the species due to this thread and everything I find is contradicting to the statements posted involving a "slow growth rate"...

[jhinton6932]

off topic but that whole chopped up chicken in the dish looks so nasty! i'd hate to have it sit in 80F for more then a couple hours haha. did you do that yourself or just buy all the parts?

[infernalis]

off topic but that whole chopped up chicken in the dish looks so nasty! i'd hate to have it sit in 80F for more then a couple hours haha. did you do that yourself or just buy all the parts?

That dish could be 2 days old and stink like zombie vomit, and it would only be appreciated that much more.

[jhinton6932]

especially by asian waters. so the whole little disease tolerance is fiction also. i think it was nova's documentary that showed them clearly living and breeding in and around city water run off ditches. god only knows whats in those over there lol

[crocdoc]

To the original poster: I'm sorry for being blunt, but I think a water monitor is highly inappropriate for someone still living with their parents. These are HUGE monitors that require an enormous amount of space, food, heat/electricity and you'll just be rehoming it in a year or two. You'd be better off getting something that you can keep for a long while.

A few days ago I saw some Malaysian water monitors, Varanus salvator macromaculatus, in the wild for the first time and the thought that immediately struck me was how bizarre it is that these are a popularly kept monitor in the US, where most people would keep them indoors. I've seen a lot of monitors in the wild, but these were second only to Komodo dragons in size. We're talking animals with a 90-100cm snout vent length, weighing 20-25kg at least. There is no way you'll be able to house one of these properly as an adult.

http://www.pbase.com/crocdoc/image/146977735.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/crocdoc/image/146977739.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/crocdoc/image/146978218.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/crocdoc/image/146977732.jpg

[jarich]

So jealous Dave. I looked all over when I was in SA this month and couldnt find any monitors. Found a few burrows and saw one tail as it ran down the burrow, but that was it.

[crocdoc]

South Africa or South Australia?

[Gatorhunter1231]

Dave- didnt you read. He is going to breed for temperment. I'm sure he mastered breeding for size like yesterday :)

[philipniceguy]

off topic but that whole chopped up chicken in the dish looks so nasty! i'd hate to have it sit in 80F for more then a couple hours haha. did you do that yourself or just buy all the parts?

Don't worry about that it would all be gone in around 30minutes of me putting it in there. I buy day old chicks in bulk (for my exotic mammals and other monitors also) defrost a few then I or my partner cuts them up with a sharp pair of scissors, adds to the mix of a growing juv monitor. Leaving every bit in the bowl so like a larger monitor they get all the bits. I do similer for most baby/juv monitors of most sp, as well as the insects so on i feel it's good to get cut up whole larger foods in there diet as well to make them grow better. Items like, rats,mice,chicks and some types of fish that without cutting it up they couldn't handle them. Currently doing the same thing with my young mertens water monitors and spencers monitor.

[infernalis]

I honestly would think that anything less than a 30 foot square concrete paddock with a thousand gallon pond system would be inadequate to properly support such a large lizard.

[jarich]

South Africa or South Australia?

South Africa; amazing place and elusive monitors. Although admittedly I was only there a couple weeks

[Robyn@SYR]

Geez, crocdoc, those pics are terrific : )