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AjaMichelle
10-11-12, 12:47 PM
Hi Everyone!

Liam's transition to her new enclosure has been pretty smooth. We've had a few hiccups but I've really tried to use her behavior to gauge changes I need to make, and so far, it looks like the enclosure is functional (i.e. she's using all of the resources available). I'm happy about this because I did have that worst-case-scenario concern that she was going to disappear into a burrow and refuse to bask or swim or eat, as she's lived in her previous enclosure since day one. However, she appears to welcome change and I've been successful in my endeavors to help her feel safe! :)

I have taken all of the information I've gathered over this last year on herpcenter and applied it! :) I've found that once the enclosure was up and running, everything worked out almost perfectly! Amazing! How often does that happen, right?!

The enclosure is 95% finished. I still need leaf litter, climbing branches, to tweak the substrate temperature slightly, and to make use of the space above her pool.

Description:
So her new enclosure is 8 feet long, 4 feet wide, and 5 feet tall. It's made up of two pieces: the base which includes the substrate and pond, and the top which includes the door and basking platform. Each half is light enough such that I can lift and carry it with the help of one other individual. I did this because I'll be moving a lot over the next few years and wanted to make sure that Liam's enclosure could be moved easily.

It's a wooden enclosure, sealed with Minwax polyurethane (oil-based), satin finish. The base of the enclosure is lined with FRP (fiber reinforced plastic), to protect it from Liam. The joints of the FRP are sealed with silicone. The sliding door is tempered glass and locked.

The enclosure includes a 20 gallon pool to which Liam has access. This pool drains into a 20 gallon freshwater sump tank via a gravity siphon. The water is pumped out of the sump and filtered before being returned to the pool in the enclosure. So there's a total of 40 gallons. The sump is planted of course, and includes shrimp and fish. The pool in the enclosure sits on a shelf that is built into the frame, so she is unable to dig underneath it. The water temperature is about 80*F.

I included a rocky drainage layer, complete with an outlet, to prevent the soil from becoming swampy and stagnating. The substrate is made up of over 1,000 pounds of a sandy-clay loam from my backyard. I put mulch on top of the sandy-clay loam, and then the soil from her last enclosure on top of the mulch. All of the substrate is tamped down, and 2.5 feet deep in the background of the enclosure, then 2 feet deep in the foreground. Substrate temperatures currently vary from 90*F to 80*F. The dig pit is 6 feet long, and 4 feet wide.

The basking spot is a slab of flagstone heated to a solid 120*F by two 45 watt halogen flood bulbs which are spaced such that the 120*F temp is consistent across the flagstone. The ambient humidity in the enclosure varies from 60% to 70% at ground level and increases to 80% at night when the fluorescent lights are off.

I have two 40 watt linear fluorescent UVB bulbs in the enclosure. An Exo Terra 10.0 and 2.0, mostly for full spectrum lighting and for the plants.

The enclosure is currently planted (we'll see what happens over the next few weeks) with wheat grass and blue grama grass (Bouteloua gracilis). The grama is a bunch grass native to New Mexico that is drought-tolerant, and does well with high humidity and in soils with adequate drainage. The grass in the enclosure was taken from my front yard and already has new growth. Grama is also often used with cattle so it can really take a beating. It's pretty hard to kill.

---------------------

Liam's reaction!

I regularly made changes to Liam's last enclosure, and when doing so, kept her in her carrier. She's fairly comfortable in there, so she hung out in the carrier with one foot tucked and chin-resting, watching me, while I shoveled all of her substrate into the new enclosure.

Then it was time!!! :) And she was apprehensive! We tried to lure her out with food to no avail. She would steal it and retreat into her carrier. At first I thought trying to touch her might be overwhelming, but decided to act normally so she'd be more comfortable. I put my hand him, another worm was offered, and she came right out! Once she was out she was exploring and started walking around with a night crawler hanging out of her mouth. :)

Sav Emerging from Carrier into New Enclosure - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=)

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rmfsnakes32
10-11-12, 12:57 PM
Very nice enclosure
AjaMichelle
10-11-12, 01:29 PM
Thank you! :)
AjaMichelle
10-11-12, 01:31 PM
I had set up some hides beneath the basking platform so she could hide immediately. The hide was pieces of cork bark sunken partially into the soil. The mouth of the hide was in line with the carrier. This way, she would have a safe place to go immediately. This was her favorite hide in the other enclosure. However, instead of entering the hide through the mouth, she dug through one of the sides. *sighs* :)

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/6736C75B-4123-48BF-AB02-612AB5A1A3AA-1737-000000D85AE5EFA5.jpg

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AjaMichelle
10-11-12, 01:34 PM
This hide beneath the basking platform was then established as a "home base" of sorts, and she returned to it after exploring each new area of the enclosure.

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor/CDA70165-C420-4C3D-95F5-0DD0A3811294-1737-000000D7AF4D94F9.jpg

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iiPink
10-11-12, 01:36 PM
do u call um like u would a dog and do they really come when u do that?
AjaMichelle
10-11-12, 01:40 PM
Then explores the rest of the basking platform... And she's trying to crawl through a nook in the grape wood.

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA060769.jpg

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Exploring the intermediate step

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA060754.jpg
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AjaMichelle
10-11-12, 01:42 PM
do u call um like u would a dog and do they really come when u do that?

Hi! She comes to me when I whistle but it's likely because she's expecting food. :) I don't think she would come over if food wasn't associated with the whistling.
AjaMichelle
10-11-12, 01:48 PM
Exploring the basking platform!
She takes the most difficult route when climbing, of course!

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA060768.jpg

g9lN7COw4EM

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA100080.jpg
Gungirl
10-11-12, 01:53 PM
Looks great!
iiPink
10-11-12, 02:01 PM
Hi! She comes to me when I whistle but it's likely because she's expecting food. :) I don't think she would come over if food wasn't associated with the whistling.

haha thats so crazy and cute at the same time if i was her i would love the new enclosure it looks wonderful!
AjaMichelle
10-11-12, 02:03 PM
Looks great!

haha thats so crazy and cute at the same time if i was her i would love the new enclosure it looks wonderful!

Thanks very much! :)
AjaMichelle
10-11-12, 02:05 PM
I still have some changes I need to make. Her basking platform isn't as accessible as I'd like it to be, the surface seems a little slick. So I'm going to texture it so she can use it more easily. :)
AjaMichelle
10-11-12, 02:12 PM
She tried without success to make several burrows and seems stressed so I started one for her and she went in immediately! :)
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http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA100003.jpg

Once her burrow was in place, she started acting normally again. She was no longer defensive.

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA100006.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA100052.jpg
simpleyork
10-11-12, 04:10 PM
looking good there.
Pirarucu
10-11-12, 04:21 PM
You want to up the basking temperature a bit, 120 is a bit low. You want 130-150 degrees.
AjaMichelle
10-11-12, 05:15 PM
looking good there.

Thanks! :)

You want to up the basking temperature a bit, 120 is a bit low. You want 130-150 degrees.

Well the readings received on the temp gun are relative to the albedo, or reflectivity, of the material that makes up the basking platform. Had I chosen black or grey flagstone instead, my readings would be upwards of 200*F because the darker flagstone would absorb more, and thus reflect less, of the radiant heat. I chose this red flagstone specifically to achieve 120*F belly heat, as this is the standard ventral heat experienced by terrestrially basking reptiles on rock. The temperature readings taken from her back are 130*F to 140*F at this distance. :)

She also had several spots to choose from in her previous enclosure and her preference was always 120*F belly heat and 140*F on her back. :) So that's what I replicated here.
infernalis
10-11-12, 05:17 PM
Thanks! :)



Well the readings received on the temp gun are relative to the albedo, or reflectivity, of the material that makes up the basking platform. Had I chosen black or grey flagstone instead, my readings would be upwards of 200*F because the darker flagstone would absorb more, and thus reflect less, of the radiant heat. I chose this red flagstone specifically to achieve 120*F belly heat, as this is the standard ventral heat experienced by terrestrially basking reptiles on rock. The temperature readings taken from her back are 130*F to 140*F at this distance. :)

She also had several spots to choose from in her previous enclosure and her preference was always 120*F belly heat and 140*F on her back. :) So that's what I replicated here.

Impressive, I mean it.
Pirarucu
10-11-12, 05:35 PM
Well the readings received on the temp gun are relative to the albedo, or reflectivity, of the material that makes up the basking platform. Had I chosen black or grey flagstone instead, my readings would be upwards of 200*F because the darker flagstone would absorb more, and thus reflect less, of the radiant heat. I chose this red flagstone specifically to achieve 120*F belly heat, as this is the standard ventral heat experienced by terrestrially basking reptiles on rock. The temperature readings taken from her back are 130*F to 140*F at this distance. :)

She also had several spots to choose from in her previous enclosure and her preference was always 120*F belly heat and 140*F on her back. :) So that's what I replicated here.Very interesting, thank you for the input!
AjaMichelle
10-11-12, 05:44 PM
Impressive, I mean it.

Thanks Wayne! That means a lot! :)

Very interesting, thank you for the input!

Thank you for your input! :) If you see anything else that needs changed, please let me know!
Pirarucu
10-11-12, 05:57 PM
Nope, it all looks good to me. The only other thing is that you may want to secure some of those cork pieces and branches. Monitors seem to have a habit of hurting themselves if they can. If she burrows under something heavy or makes something fall on her, she could get injured. The cork on the basking area come to mind, though those are probably light enough that they wouldn't cause harm.
infernalis
10-11-12, 08:08 PM
Nope, it all looks good to me. The only other thing is that you may want to secure some of those cork pieces and branches. Monitors seem to have a habit of hurting themselves if they can. If she burrows under something heavy or makes something fall on her, she could get injured. The cork on the basking area come to mind, though those are probably light enough that they wouldn't cause harm.

Along those lines.. I put a huge flat rock in the bottom of my enclosure (it's under the platform) with this in mind, I cribbed it in place with treated 2x6 planks before I covered it all in dirt.
Pirarucu
10-11-12, 08:46 PM
Along those lines.. I put a huge flat rock in the bottom of my enclosure (it's under the platform) with this in mind, I cribbed it in place with treated 2x6 planks before I covered it all in dirt.That is exactly what I have been thinking would be the best option for stuff like this.
Gatorhunter1231
10-11-12, 08:50 PM
Looking good. Very good observation with the temps. I also kicked my surface temps down some on my large monitors. My croc monitor could hit 170 on her back on a 120 basking area. Big difference when the lizard is only an inch thick to when they are 6in thick.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/DSC00306.jpg
Pirarucu
10-11-12, 09:21 PM
I like where this thread is going. Oftentimes I have attempted to explain to people that it's the monitor's temp that really matters, and not so much the surface it's sitting on. This applies more in captivity than in the wild, as the difference in heat over a few inches is increased.

I was explaining to someone a few months ago that surface temperatures of 130+ are quite common in nature and will not fry their monitor. I informed them that if they were to gun a piece of stone or wood that has been out in the sun, it would be surprisingly hot.
Their return argument was that Savannah Monitors live in grassy savannas, where apparently there are no rocks or pieces of wood to bask on, so the monitor could not get to temps that hot. Sigh..
AjaMichelle
10-11-12, 09:38 PM
Nope, it all looks good to me. The only other thing is that you may want to secure some of those cork pieces and branches. Monitors seem to have a habit of hurting themselves if they can. If she burrows under something heavy or makes something fall on her, she could get injured. The cork on the basking area come to mind, though those are probably light enough that they wouldn't cause harm.

I definitely agree! The flagstone is siliconed to the shelf so she can't push it off, and any other pieces of stone I put on the shelves will also be in fixed positions. I put the cork bark around just to make it smell like home, and wasn't intending for the pieces to stay where they were. She's effectively moved them all lol :) Everything else is also fixed. She can't knock the branches over and there aren't any heavy rocks on the surface. :) She intentionally pushes the cork bark around too. It was a game in the last enclosure. She would wait until feeding time, every time.

Along those lines.. I put a huge flat rock in the bottom of my enclosure (it's under the platform) with this in mind, I cribbed it in place with treated 2x6 planks before I covered it all in dirt.

What is the flat rock for? :)

Looking good. Very good observation with the temps. I also kicked my surface temps down some on my large monitors. My croc monitor could hit 170 on her back on a 120 basking area. Big difference when the lizard is only an inch thick to when they are 6in thick.

Thanks so much! :) I've definitely noticed she has an obvious preference. We've done branches with surface temps varying from 120*F to 140*F, cork bark, varying heights, plywood, and rocks of varying albedo. She had the choice in her last enclosure among a black piece of slate that was 140*F, a piece of granite that was 120*F, and a piece of cork that was 140*F. Her preference was the granite which was the same temp as her flagstone.

I'm going to try a piece of black slate on the next shelf down. The surface temp should be the same but her surface temp should be lower.

I may also need to include a radiant heat panel in the enclosure. I think I'm going to need the substrate to be a little warmer under the basking platform.

I like where this thread is going. Oftentimes I have attempted to explain to people that it's the monitor's temp that really matters, and not so much the surface it's sitting on. This applies more in captivity than in the wild, as the difference in heat over a few inches is increased.

I was explaining to someone a few months ago that surface temperatures of 130+ are quite common in nature and will not fry their monitor. I informed them that if they were to gun a piece of stone or wood that has been out in the sun, it would be surprisingly hot.


That is too true! I've been doing field surveys over the last few summers and the ground (dirt) reaches surface temps upwards of 130*F, while the wood and rocks stay much cooler. And terrestrially basking reptiles use it all! :)

Their return argument was that Savannah Monitors live in grassy savannas, where apparently there are no rocks or pieces of wood to bask on, so the monitor could not get to temps that hot. Sigh..

That must be in the same area where savannah monitors live in a dry grassy savannah and don't need high humidity. :)
infernalis
10-11-12, 11:26 PM
The flat rock WAS Chomper's basking platform, Now there is another platform over it, so it's a basking stack with a stone bottom layer.

The mass of the solid stone also retains heat for many hours after I turn off the basking lamps at night.

http://www.chompersite.com/2011pics/hotrock.jpg

http://www.reptard.info/Paddock/rock1.jpg
AjaMichelle
10-12-12, 05:18 PM
Wayne that's awesome! :)
AjaMichelle
10-12-12, 05:30 PM
More Videos! :)

Liam has overcome her fear of the door! :)

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA100063.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA100056.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA100041.jpg

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Climbing into my hand!
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Terranaut
10-12-12, 07:03 PM
So how did you come up with "her" name. Liam is one of my sons name it's Irish Gaelic for William. Not your typical girl name.
I have to see the videos at home. Not working here at work :(
jhinton6932
10-12-12, 08:57 PM
i clap my tongs and my sav comes out :) my melinus stopped tong feeding when i added a new female but im working to re-establish tong feeding with the group. enclosure looks awesome btw!
AjaMichelle
10-15-12, 03:51 PM
So how did you come up with "her" name. Liam is one of my sons name it's Irish Gaelic for William. Not your typical girl name.
I have to see the videos at home. Not working here at work :(

Well when I purchased her, "she" was supposed to be a "he" lol :) I knew there was a chance that she was actually female, as juveniles can't be sexed reliably, but I was hoping for a male as they grow larger, and don't produce eggs! :)
Unbeknownst to me, she was very ill when I brought her home. She regurgitated everything and proper husbandry wasn't correcting the issue. I had to take her to the vet, and the vet required a name for her, so I chose Liam Neeson! :) and it stuck! :)

i clap my tongs and my sav comes out :) my melinus stopped tong feeding when i added a new female but im working to re-establish tong feeding with the group. enclosure looks awesome btw!

Thanks! And that's awesome!!! I almost purchased a stunning melinus this summer but decided to get another savannah instead. I prefer to have groups instead of lone individuals, if possible. :)
infernalis
10-15-12, 04:05 PM
Thanks! And that's awesome!!! I almost purchased a stunning melinus this summer but decided to get another savannah instead. I prefer to have groups instead of lone individuals, if possible. :)


I must agree, the behaviour is fascinating. The things I am seeing, makes it great from my standpoint, and as a REAL plus, they are never bored.
Kaetlinv
10-15-12, 04:15 PM
beautiful animal, i'm awestruck. She's gorgeous!! And that tongue.. good lord. O.o

I don't think I'll ever have the space / funds required for such a large lizard, but maybe one day I can get something smaller. :)
AjaMichelle
10-17-12, 06:58 PM
I must agree, the behaviour is fascinating. The things I am seeing, makes it great from my standpoint, and as a REAL plus, they are never bored.

That's most of the reason why I want a male! :)

beautiful animal, i'm awestruck. She's gorgeous!! And that tongue.. good lord. O.o

I don't think I'll ever have the space / funds required for such a large lizard, but maybe one day I can get something smaller. :)

Thanks so much! She's my special little lady! :) Ackies are a great smaller monitor! :)
AjaMichelle
10-17-12, 07:00 PM
Before:
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA100083.jpg

Modifications made to the basking platform. I used clay, but it's not tacky. She seems to really enjoy the texture of the clay. I find her on the some element of either shelf regularly now. I've also added another piece of flagstone.
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA170095.jpg

My grass is starting to grow! And new burrow! I started this one for her but she's quickly expanded on it--- shaping it with her cheeks. It's a nice fit for her and at least two feet deep.
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA170093.jpg

The sides are perfectly smooth!
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA170101.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA170096.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA170097.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA170098.jpg

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA170099.jpg
AjaMichelle
10-17-12, 07:01 PM
And she's gone!
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA170100.jpg

Until I have a nightcrawler!
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA170107.jpg

New burrow combinations... So the left burrow is her home now, and I believe the burrow on the right is more of a hide. She was using it, but never dug any deeper than about 8 inches, and then she added an exit hole right next to the cork bark.
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r544/_AjaMichelle_/Savannah%20Monitor%20Enclosure/PA170110.jpg

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infernalis
10-22-12, 12:22 PM
awesome!......................
Little Wise Owl
10-23-12, 12:06 AM
This is amazing. You're doing a fantastic job.

Are you just using soil from outside? How deep is it?
AjaMichelle
10-26-12, 08:49 PM
awesome!......................

This is amazing. You're doing a fantastic job.

Are you just using soil from outside? How deep is it?

Thanks so much! :)

I'm using soil from outside. The soil I have available to me is a clay-sandy loam so I don't really need to add anything to it, but I did use mulch (top soil) on top. And will be adding leaf litter when the leaves drop. :)

It's 2.5 feet deep in the back half, and 2 feet deep in the front. :)