I just dont get it, where are they

[RandyRhoads]

I've been doing a ton of traveling and hiking around California (Oh yeah Arizona too...) the last few months. I covered what seems like every habitat. More mountains than anything, but everywhere I go I enquire about snakes, specifically rattlesnakes. I always get an answer similar to "they're everywhere, a big problem for us". I also ask if they're out now and when the last one was seen. Most of the time they repy with just a few days ago. Yet I still have yet to come across one. I thought for sure after my deer hunting trip covering many, many miles in the rocky outcroppings of the mountains last week, I would have got buzzed at least once, but nothing.

I'm so baffled, where I live during spring and fall they are a daily occurence on the road. How come every time I go to other places there's not a single snake in sight? Do I need to be flipping rocks or digging in fallen trees?

[infernalis]

After a while you train to walk looking down, take a hook with you and flip everything in sight.

[alessia55]

You might have to flip things over to find them. They will want to be hiding- not usually in plain sight. So flip over rocks that may have burrows underneath them, fallen tree branches, etc.

[infernalis]

99% of my field herping photos are from flipping things over with only about 1% being chance encounters out in the open.

[RandyRhoads]

Thank you both, i'll start turning things over as gently as I can when I hike. I guess I just assumed they would be out on rocks sunning themselves early morning/late afternoons like they do here.

[infernalis]

When you have the luxury of scoping the terrain, you can figure where the prime basking areas are, but when you are visiting somewhere new, it's a bit tougher.

Basking spots surrounded by cover are best, snakes like to flee quickly, so look for areas with lots of surrounding cover, but little open spaces.

[RandyRhoads]

I must say, no deer or snakes and the view was still worth it.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/randy666rhoads/Woodchuck%20Basin%20Deer%20Hunt/DSCN1878.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/randy666rhoads/Woodchuck%20Basin%20Deer%20Hunt/DSCN1873.jpg

[RandyRhoads]

Ok, how do these look for basking spots, a little too open? There were some more like you described but nothing was out and about there.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/randy666rhoads/Woodchuck%20Basin%20Deer%20Hunt/DSCN1862.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/randy666rhoads/Woodchuck%20Basin%20Deer%20Hunt/DSCN1861.jpg

[infernalis]

too open.

Rattlers prefer cracks in the rocks don't they?

[Roadtrash]

This could be a good place but just go around the areas that are close to edges. Like infernalis said they like to be close to cover so they can hide quickly.

[Kingsnakechris]

Which part of az are you looking in? I rarely see them up in the pines out here but down in the desert where I live I could throw a rock and almost find one every time. Especially if you can find the open desert next to a new housing development, lots of wood piles, brush piles etc. They are amazing burrowers as well. Probe everything with your snake hook and be very careful flipping things over as sometimes they wont rattle at all and you wont know their there untill your headed to the ER.

[Pareeeee]

I haven't gone rattler herping before, but when I go looking for snakes or other critters I usually end up finding them under rocks, fallen trees & logs, etc. The only snakes I ever actually see "out in the open" where I live are Northern Water Snakes.

Also, since rattlers are what you're going for, be sure to have a snake hook. I would also use something to lift the rocks other than your hands...

Like Wayne said, train yourself to look down while walking. You find so much stuff that way! That's how I have always hiked, lol. The definition of a hike, to me, is looking for critters.

[Kettennatter]

I used to boar hunt in CA, and I always wore boots because of possible run-ins with snakes. You will definitely have to turn things over, unless you're into garters. For those you can simply fly into SFO, take the next exit south (92, I think) and walk along the parks by the canals. You'll see them.

[RandyRhoads]

Wayne, Roadtrash - The picture doesn't show it very well but there are many cracks and spaces between rocks.

Chris - This was California, I was in Mohave county in AZ, remember our conversation a few months ago...?

Paree - I normally have a snake hook with me, if not I try to find a suitable one. If I can't i'm not flipping anything or trying to pick one up. I'm pretty surprised to hear about garters and other water snakes being the only ones seen in the open. I see tons of gopher and kings out in the open here.


Kettennatter - When I boar hunt I wear boots and snake gaiters, then really regret it when I get back pouring sweat into my boots and never saw anything. I think i've had my fill of garters, racers, gophers, whipsnakes, and kings.

Have you heard of the rattlesnakes in boar areas not rattling. Some biologist at either DFAG or BLM told me they were adapting for survival by not rattling so they wouldn't give themselves away to the boar and get eaten.

[Kingsnakechris]

yeah, I figured maybe you came back and still didnt find any. I hope you find some soon!

[Jlassiter]

Reptiles, including rattlesnakes come to the surface to regulate their temperature and humidity level.....If the temps are cool they will be out on the Eastern side of any outcropping, hill or mountain in the morning to catch the sun rise. Try checking the western side as the sun is setting.....After rain showers is the best time to "flip" things.

But if you flip anything other than AC (Artificial Cover) please put it back the way you found it. Too many folks that call themselves field herpers ruin natural habitat by flipping flagstone, rocks, boulders even to the point that they carry prybars and sledge hammers to do so.......

[millertime89]

Have you heard of the rattlesnakes in boar areas not rattling. Some biologist at either DFAG or BLM told me they were adapting for survival by not rattling so they wouldn't give themselves away to the boar and get eaten.

I've heard reports of this out of Texas as well. With the wild pigs running rampant out there the rattle snakes less prone to rattle are surviving or so the reports go.

[Jlassiter]

BTW....where's you photos of all the kings you've found and are bored with?
I'd love to see them.

And the non-rattling thing is a "new wive's tale."

[Jlassiter]

Scientists have to justify their funding sometimes.....

[RandyRhoads]

Scientists have to justify their funding sometimes.....

That's why I brought this up. It seems like it would have taken a lot longer than this for selective breeding to come into play and cause this, doesn't it?

Reptiles, including rattlesnakes come to the surface to regulate their temperature and humidity level.....If the temps are cool they will be out on the Eastern side of any outcropping, hill or mountain in the morning to catch the sun rise. Try checking the western side as the sun is setting.....After rain showers is the best time to "flip" things.



But if you flip anything other than AC (Artificial Cover) please put it back the way you found it. Too many folks that call themselves field herpers ruin natural habitat by flipping flagstone, rocks, boulders even to the point that they carry prybars and sledge hammers to do so.......





I've been all over every direction at every time of day and seen nothing, but that's just my luck I guess. I'll start flipping stuff, like I said, gently, putting it all back. I'm never into screwing up the earth.....


BTW....where's you photos of all the kings you've found and are bored with?

I'd love to see them.."



Here's one.



http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/randy666rhoads/Snakes/DSCN0806.jpg



http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/randy666rhoads/Snakes/DSCN0805.jpg



http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/randy666rhoads/Snakes/DSCN0799.jpg

[Kingsnakechris]

Awesome pics! Looks just like mine lol

[Danimal]

I've been all over every direction at every time of day and seen nothing, but that's just my luck I guess. I'll start flipping stuff, like I said, gently, putting it all back. I'm never into screwing up the earth.....

Hey man, I know how you feel. I knew this fella when I was a kid that could grab a hook and a bag, go into the woods for an hour and come out with a bag of snakes and lizards. I saw him do it in the day and at night as well. I couldn't even find just one to save my life. He was a few years older and his dad was the reptile curator at our zoo, I figured he had an advantage. I don't go snake and lizard hunting anymore but I always keep an eye out and see a lot more now than I did then. Water Mocs are probably the easiest to find but I see speckled and common kings all the time when I am just wandering.

[DavethePython]

I feel your frustration . I have had several occasions to explor Arizona and have yet to see a rattlesnake , in the pines or the desert . Spent hours looking when I had chances . Really wanted photos of a wild rattler . Got nothing , not even a Scorpion lol. Oh well , gives me yet another reason to go back .

[Roadtrash]

As someone said earlier, look down. I have seen many rattlesnakes out here while walking around the desert and if they don't feel threatened they don't rattle and you'll just walk by them if you're not looking. The best places I have found for finding them are close to the farm areas. Crops are growing and this attracts mice,etc. and naturally this attracts the snakes. Right now the temps are getting a little cooler at night so riding the roads around the farms is productive as they crawl out to warm on the pavement at night.

[Revenant]

BTW....where's you photos of all the kings you've found and are bored with?
I'd love to see them.

And the non-rattling thing is a "new wive's tale."

Perhaps, but I've only been buzzed by California rattlers when I've taken them by surprise by flipping something. Ones found out in the open much prefer to freeze (if I'm the one moving) or just scoot on by (if I'm still and they've moved out into the open) without rattling a warning. I don't know if it has anything to do with boars, I think it just has to do with most snakes preferring to hide or flee rather than fight or draw attention to themselves. Maybe it is because I usually don't hook them? Why warn something that isn't bothering you, I guess.

[Jlassiter]

Many snakes vibrate their tales......Rattlesnakes just took evolution a step further.
It's not so much a warning, but a defense mechanism.....

My kings vibrate their tails sometimes, but out of all the kings I've found in the wild only a few of them vibrated their tails.....Just like rattlesnakes, they have to be rather agitated or irritated to vibrate their tails......

Some corns vibrate their tails as do ratsnakes......

They haven't changed one bit in our tiny lifespan....LOL

[Jlassiter]

Nice California King Randy!
I'd be happy finding them ALL DAY LONG....lol