Hr511

[Strutter769]

Lps I looked for a forum on legislation, which I thought we had... couldn't find it So, here it is:

HR511 has left the House Judiciary Committee and is now headed for the Senate. They're looking to add Reticulated Pythons, Boas, and other Python species to the Lacey Act.

Fellow hobbyists, we simply cannot afford not to act on this immediately! Please, listen to this short audio clip, share it everywhere you can, and most of all, contact these Representatives by any means necessary.... phone calls, letters, E-mail, smoke signal, whatever....

Please, listen to this audio clip and arm yourself with PERTINENT. information.. and when you reach out to these people, remember, you represent an entire community... Cursing, name-calling, threats, none of that stuff helps our cause. In fact, those are exactly what they expect from us. Be cordial, straightforward, and stick to facts. Those are the things that'll help get our message through.

Thanks in advance to those of you who, like myself, choose to take action.

» The Snake Master Myke Show – URGENT UPDATE Herp Nation Magazine – Reptiles Amphibians Herpetology Husbandry (http://www.herpnation.com/audio/smms-urgent1-092612/)

[millertime89]

HR511 is NOT going to the senate floor. It has to go through the House Natural Resources (HNR) Committee first where it has to go through the same review process that it went through with the House Judiciary Committee and has to receive a favorable vote there. Once that's been done it goes to the house floor for a vote then go to the Senate and go through the same review process there, then get voted on, and provided everything about the bill from both the House and Senate are identical it will then go to the president's desk.

Andrew Wyatt stated in an interview on Herp Nation radio with Dan Krull ( » The Dan Krull Show – Herp Nation Radio Herp Nation Magazine – Reptiles Amphibians Herpetology Husbandry (http://www.herpnation.com/audio/dks-10-2012/?simple_nav_category=audio) ) that he doesn't think its going anywhere and Erika Walsh has asked that we not make calls yet because misinformation might be spread and that USARK is working on this on The HIll.

[Strutter769]

Thanks Kyle. My apologies for the inaccuracy.

This does not change change the need for action to these Reps though, IMHO.

[millertime89]

If this was on the House floor I would agree with you, but right now its still in committee and raising awareness might in fact negatively impact our goals. At this point, I feel its best to take a "wait and see" stance.

[Strutter769]

Interesting viewpoint.

I'll take your advice.

[millertime89]

its something that we're discussing here in NE as well. We want to change the laws in the Omaha metro but with the 3 recent incidents we have to way the possible ramification of our actions.

[Volcom269]

its something that we're discussing here in NE as well. We want to change the laws in the Omaha metro but with the 3 recent incidents we have to way the possible ramification of our actions.


Im sorry this is off topic but what part of Nebraska do you live in??

[StudentoReptile]

Here's USARK blog about the matter: HR 511 ‘Python Ban’ Released By House Judiciary | USARK (http://usark.org/featured/hr-511-python-ban-released-by-house-judiciary/)

I love the moronic redundancy of this law (and others). [/sarcasm] Why would they go to the trouble of listing 4 species of snakes that were ALREADY put on the Injurious Wildlife List of the Lacey Act earlier this year?:rolleyes:

And again....why bother with the DeSchauensee’s Anaconda and the Beni anaconda? A little bit of research would show how rare both species are in captivity period, and virtually non-existent in the pet trade. But noooo, they're anacondas, too and ALL anacondas are giant, monster snakes that could ruin the ecological integrity of our nation! OMG!

Idiots.

[Rogue628]

I know, right?

I still don't understand why they even put boa constrictors on the list.

[Skumbo]

I know, right?

I still don't understand why they even put snakes on the list.

Fixed it for you.

[millertime89]

Im sorry this is off topic but what part of Nebraska do you live in??

Lincoln area

Here's USARK blog about the matter: HR 511 ‘Python Ban’ Released By House Judiciary | USARK (http://usark.org/featured/hr-511-python-ban-released-by-house-judiciary/)

I love the moronic redundancy of this law (and others). [/sarcasm] Why would they go to the trouble of listing 4 species of snakes that were ALREADY put on the Injurious Wildlife List of the Lacey Act earlier this year?:rolleyes:

And again....why bother with the DeSchauensee’s Anaconda and the Beni anaconda? A little bit of research would show how rare both species are in captivity period, and virtually non-existent in the pet trade. But noooo, they're anacondas, too and ALL anacondas are giant, monster snakes that could ruin the ecological integrity of our nation! OMG!

Idiots.

I looked into this, listing the 4(5) species that are already on the list makes it legislation meaning its harder to reverse.

The only logical reason I can come up with for the Beni's is because its nearly impossible to differentiate them from Greens. The DeSchauensee would thrive in the Everglades as it comes from similar habitats in its own native range. That said its also the smallest Anaconda, almost a dwarf Green if you will. But I've never seen/heard of either of them in captivity.

I know, right?

I still don't understand why they even put boa constrictors on the list.

There is an established population of boas in a corner of ENP that has been there since at least the 70s.

Fixed it for you.

werd

[StudentoReptile]

Lincoln area
There is an established population of boas in a corner of ENP that has been there since at least the 70s.


I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong; is there any proof of this? Because nothing I've come across has indicated any other large constrictor besides the Burmese python had actually become established.

Yes, they have occasionally found adult and subadult specimens of Afrocks, green anaconda, retics and BCs sporadically over the years (likely released pets). But nothing compared to the numbers of Burms. Have they ever found gravid females, neonate boas, etc., anything that indicates that Boa constrictor is actually established down there?

I'm not saying its impossible. Bottom line: if they have, I want proof. Not hearsay, not a news article or someone's blog post...but proof. Plus, I got a few contacts in Florida and I'll ask around.

[millertime89]

I'll look, but your challenge is the first one I've heard to that claim. I would be very curious if your contacts know anything because that one, as far as I know, has been taking as fact for quite some time.

[StudentoReptile]

I'll look, but your challenge is the first one I've heard to that claim. I would be very curious if your contacts know anything because that one, as far as I know, has been taking as fact for quite some time.

Well, understand, it's nothing personal or anything...but people say all sorts of things. I have heard a lot of bogus crap over the years. A lot of people think just because only one or two of ____ have been found it means said species has been established...and without further investigation or studies, that really isn't an entirely accurate assessment, now is it?

For instance, we've had a few escaped constrictors loose here in southern Alabama. But despite outlandish claims to the contrary, there are no established populations of any large non-native constrictor in the state of Alabama.

So when you say "that one, as far as I know, has been taken as fact for quite some time," I have to ask where you're getting your information from. If there's proof, we as the collective herp community need to know, before we go around just spouting that Boa constrictor sp has been established in southern Florida and has been for years. If we do so without reliable sources to back ourselves up, then we're no better than the pseudo-journalism and ignorant politicians that are our opposition in all this.

It behooves us to have our facts straight, especially in matters like this.

[millertime89]

I know its nothing personal. I found this site.
William Ripley Mohler III: Exotic Boa Constrictor in Everglades (http://keepinitdirty.blogspot.com/2006/02/exotic-boa-constrictor-in-everglades.html)

Looking for more but every search query I find either quotes the USGS/USFWS or is all about the Burmese pythons in the everglades (and mentions the same USGS/USFWS stuff).

There have been over 50 reported sightings in the Miami area, but who knows if those were actually boas and not just people thinking they saw boas when they actually saw Burms.
common boa (Boa constrictor) - EDDMapS Florida Distribution (http://www.eddmaps.org/florida/distribution/viewmap.cfm?sub=18348&lat=26.209663&lng=-80.991211&zoom=8)

There's a thread on the RTB forum about a boa coming from the 'glades, I won't post the link here but if you search the right terms it should be an early hit.

[millertime89]

The entire article is good, but what you're looking for is under D, second to last point.
U.S. Fish and Wildlife turn blind eye to science, fact (http://axcessnews.com/index.php/articles/show/id/22357)

[StudentoReptile]

Thanks, Kyle.

I have actually read that article before, and I admit I probably glanced over that part, or simply may have forgotten about it (again, because everyone is so focused on Burmese pythons). I'm still curious as to approximately how long that population has been established though.

[Rogue628]

Thanks for the info Kyle. :)

[StudentoReptile]

I know its nothing personal. I found this site.
William Ripley Mohler III: Exotic Boa Constrictor in Everglades (http://keepinitdirty.blogspot.com/2006/02/exotic-boa-constrictor-in-everglades.html)



Regarding this link...

I'm inclined to believe this particular animal was a fairly recent escaped/released pet, due to its large size and girth ("well-fed?") according to the author.

Most of the feral pythons found in the glades are not "fat, well-fed" pampered pets like we're used to seeing in captivity. They are indeed more like wild Burmese pythons, very lean and mean. This is according to Shawn Heflick and Greg Graziani, two of the licensed "python hunters" who go out and have actually put hands on these animals.

Back to the article..I think its interesting to point out that this Florida resident makes this statement:

I suppose people think their are very large numbers of pythons out in the glades, because that is what makes the news. I have been on many Tree islands and this is the first time I have seen a large constrictor or rather any constrictors

[millertime89]

Yeah I saw that comment. I've seen similar ones made by other FL residents as well. I sent Shawn a message asking if they've ever found any boas in the 'glades, waiting to hear back.

Under comments,
FLMNH - Boa Constrictor (Boa Constrictor) (http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/herpetology/fl-guide/Boaconstrictor.htm)

[StudentoReptile]

Under comments,
FLMNH - Boa Constrictor (Boa Constrictor) (http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/herpetology/fl-guide/Boaconstrictor.htm)

Again, thanks for the link. Until now, I was unaware that B.c. sp had established itself anywhere in the states.