Thinking of starting a snake breeding business.

[Zeusophobia]

Well, everything I read says the idea won't be profitable, but the numbers just don't add up.

I want to rent a 1200sqft warehouse with central AC, and breed bulk regular snakes to sell to petshops.

The key factor in keeping this afloat would be I breed my own prey items.

I've been having a lot of success with my current snakes, keeping the room temperature warm and not using a heating pad. Here in FL, I don't think they're necasary unless you keep your house extremely cool.

So essentially 90% of the overhead would be water, electricity (which wouldn't be too high), and rat/mouse/rabbit food.

If for instance, I could sell retics for $50 a piece at a low end average of 50 snakes per clutch, and had 2 retics that I bread every other year. That's $2500 a year for two females and a male.

I plan on breeding little bit of everything, pythons and boas.

The way I see it, if I had a couple hundred snakes, big and small going every other year, I could make some pretty decent cash flow.

The main reason I want to do this is because I'm crazy about snakes. I may be trying to shoehorn a business into an area where there shouldn't be one, but if I gotta go to work 8 hours a day, I want to be hangin around snakes.

This is something I'm planning on starting in 3 years, so I can build up my breeder collection now.

Is there something I'm missing when it comes to the overhead? I don't see this as a high overhead business if you're breeding your own prey items, but some seriously profit can potentially be made selling snakes in bulk.

[Jlassiter]

Unless you produce what is new and high end and you can find buyers it is very difficult to make a decent living breeding snakes......

The "petshop variety," low end wholesale type snake cannot keep a business afloat because you will not find enough buyers.......

One cannot get rich off of something someone else has gotten rich off of....you must produce some first of their kind morph or breed something every one else isn't.....

Just my two cents after 20 years in the business.....and I still have a great paying day job....lol

[Wildside]

Pet Shops are not gonna buy retics at $50 a piece

[Zeusophobia]

Pet Shops are not gonna buy retics at $50 a piece

Why not? My local petshop is selling them for $130, and I've seen ads on kingsnake selling normal retics for $70.

[Kingsnakechris]

Breeding snakes is more of a hobby that when done correctly can pay for its self, but I don't know anyone who has quit their day job breeding snakes, I'm sure a few people on here have done just that but its a big investment right off the bat. Not trying to bash your idea but its very difficult to make a living doing this. I recently got into it and have no plans of getting rich, I simply have a passion for snakes and enjoy working with the different morphs.

[Skumbo]

If you go into breeding snakes hoping to make money, you either never will, or you barely will. The only people who seem to make any real money on it started breeding for the love of it, rather than for money, as its extremely hard work for not a lot of money and you're responsible for many lives, unlike many other small business endeavors which may fail, you'll be stuck with a lot of baby snakes, especially at first where you dont have an established name/customer base.


If you're really adamant about it, start small. Do one clutch and go to an expo, and see how hard it really is to breed snakes, then multiply that by a thousand for a full sized one.

Also - If you think you're going to make a profit at $50/retic, you need to rethink your finances..

[Wildside]

Why not? My local petshop is selling them for $130, and I've seen ads on kingsnake selling normal retics for $70.


Why not just open your own shop?

[Skumbo]

Also - if you plan on having that many snakes, it wont be "8 hours per day" it will be far more than that. Keep in mind paperwork as well, businesses are a lot more than "give me some money ok heres a snake"

Look at the people who move "lots of snakes", they have multiple employees, tons of overhead costs, etc etc.

[Aanayab1]

Do you know anyone who has a breeding business? If so talk to them and see what they say. If you do not perhaps you could try to contact an established business owner and tell them about your interest and intentions in their field and see if they might talk to you about the ups and downs. I personally know very little to nothing about breeding but if my plans were to venture into any field I was unfamiliar with that is how I would approach it, almost as if writing a senior thesis on the topic. That way you will get first hand accounts of how the inner-workings of a breeding business works.

[StudentoReptile]

Most breeders are lucky (and content) if they stay in the green (i.e. break even). There may be occasions where you'll make some extra coin here and there, but like others have said, do not expect this to become means of substantial income. Those that have crossed that threshold into a fulltime "business" have invested countless man hours and a lot of their own money to get things started. Its not going to happen overnight.

And Wildside is right. This is more than a fulltime job. You will CONSTANTLY be cleaning cages, building cages, feeding animals, inspecting new animals, caring for sick ones, etc. This is not a "get rich quick" endeavor where you put snakes in a rack, feed them and change their tub once a week and expect money to pour in.

[rmfsnakes32]

I have to agree I know 5 different BP breeders in my area and they are fighting for tables at the expos to try to move these snakes plus they are also advertising and shipping out of state. Good luck to you!

[StudentoReptile]

I have to agree I know 5 different BP breeders in my area and they are fighting for tables at the expos to try to move these snakes plus they are also advertising and shipping out of state. Good luck to you!

But ask them what it took for them to get to there.;)

[Kingsnakechris]

And breeding rodents isint as simple as a male and female rat. You have to pay attention to them as well, in the case of having as many snakes as you would have you would need quite a few but not too many, just another aspect in the big scheme of things

[Jenn_06]

Start small. Breed a few things than get bigger over time. Most pet stores buy from importers its cheaper then buying from breeders.

[mykee]

You have a LOT to learn before you jump into this venture.

[Wildside]

You have a LOT to learn before you jump into this venture.

Such as how you will make rent in the off season?

[Kingsnakechris]

day jobs lol

[Aanayab1]

I think the OP may have decided not to return.....

[Kingsnakechris]

I don't see why, no one was rude and his question was answerd promptly

[Skumbo]

People don't like thinking that they were wrong or something they want to do isnt going to work. But the reality is, it's going to cost him tens of thousands to get this going, and making it up through pet store sales isn't going to happen any time soon. Ive gone into a lot of local pet stores, and most of the reptiles are still there week to week.

[millertime89]

Knowing several breeders who do this for a living and several more who do it on top of their regular jobs (for one it IS his regular job during the winter when construction isn't exactly do-able here in NE) it is a LOT of work. Something that the aforementioned breeder who also owns his own construction company said to me really sticks in my mind, its a full time job and he only has about 4 dozen breeders and holdbacks. So during the summer he works 2 full time jobs along with some volunteer help from friends and family. The guys who are making good money off of breeding are lucky (another friend got the Trick gene from two snakes that he was sold as not having said gene) and are in it for the love of the animals, not the money. If you want to see what happens to the people that are in it for the money go search some of the other boards, stories abound with people in it for the money, they get in, they realize how much work it is, and get out, often taking a loss. If you really want to do this, find something that not many people are working with that you like and work with them, there's enough ball python, corn snake, and single gene retic breeders out there.

And no, pet stores won't buy normal retics off of you for 50 bucks, they sell normal ball pythons for 70-100 when they're buying them for less than 10 a piece. And PLEASE don't wholesale retics to pet stores, there's enough bad owners out there who buy them because they're cute hatchings and get scared when their 24" baby retic turns into a 12 footer after 2 years and don't know what to do with it. We don't need any more of those stories and unfortunately that's what we get from pet-store sold retics all too often.

[Robyn@SYR]

"The easiest way to make a million dollars in the reptile market is to start with 2 million, and work your way down."

(Stolen from Aaron at IHerp. But that just about captures it.)

[millertime89]

"The easiest way to make a million dollars in the reptile market is to start with 2 million, and work your way down."

(Stolen from Aaron at IHerp. But that just about captures it.)

Hahahahahaha, that's fantastic.

[Kingsnakechris]

Hahaha that's awesome

[MIReptiles]

Few noteable things missing here. BILLS! I do this for part/majority of my living and its not just get 100 snakes, spend 8 hours a day working with them, and sell them to the millions in line to get them.

Even if you breed your feeders which is a BIG pain in the A@@ (smells, good amount of time clean up, moving males after females birth, CO2 to euthanize $, decent feed $, bedding $, breeding racks $$, storage site $$$) then you have snakes (caging/racking $$$, Flexwatt $$$, thermostats $$, freezers $, incubators $, hides $, bedding $) but wait theres more!!! ProExotics lost everything in a fire. Really Sad. Shout out to a hell of a company by the way! So your gonna need to have insurance cause you have no idea what it would be like to grow to what your talking and lose everything! Rent, taxes, the GOV, licensing, water, and the electric bill will be MUCH higher then you think it will with even 50 snakes...Wait theres more. Marketing! $$$$$$! Shows (gas $, signage $$, show equip $$$) Shipping (boxes $, bags $, cool/heat bags $) What happens when part of your colony gets sick or infections? ($$$) Misc offices supplies $$$. And that was just a part of my daily bills LMAO. By the way, if you think your going to get 50 eggs from each female retic with 1 male and 100% success rate, you done lost before you started.

Believe in your dreams, always do what your passionate about...unless what your passionate about you can't afford. Keep a job. Find a few great animals you love and invest and take good care of them. Then just HAVE FUN.

[Morti]

"The easiest way to make a million dollars in the reptile market is to start with 2 million, and work your way down."

(Stolen from Aaron at IHerp. But that just about captures it.)

Aaron stole it from me... but that's ok because I stole it from Kevin at NERD. ;)

[Terranaut]

You have a LOT to learn before you jump into this venture.

All I can say is Yup!!!

[mykee]

From some one who routinely sells a lot of his lower end "newbie" stock to multiple pet stores, as a breeder, you get about 30% of their retail for your stock. Pet stores won't even look at you for the most part as well if you aren't selling ten lots or more.

[HerpVenue]

How much is electricity for your house?
How much will it be for a big warehouse?
What about essentials of breeding? Enclosures for breeders and neonates, thermostats, heating, thermometers, tape, shipping boxes, snake bags, incubators, cage liners or whatever you will use, Insurance, Rent, Water, Electricity, Security System, gas, sewer, trash. What about website, advertising, classified memberships.

Sure money can be made. But you have to start out small unless you have lots of money to burn. Small so you can figure out all the ins and out and iron out all the details.

Do you want the feeders to pay for themselves? How are you going to do that? Sell at wholesale to stores? Sell to the public so every Tom, **** and Harry knows where your place is and can rob you?

[Skumbo]

My financial goal for when I start breeding would be "break even" and I'd be ecstatic if I do so, and that would be without investing hugely into a separate facility or super high end breeding stock.

[Robyn@SYR]

I know we are just piling on at this point, but sometimes the expense of running a live reptile business really does get nutty.

We had a 10,000 sq. ft breeding facility, and in the Colorado winter, public service each month ran $3000. Rent itself over $7000. That is an incredibly steep hill to climb, and represents only two of the dozens of recurring monthly expenses.

Our monthly paper towel bill alone is enough to gag a rhino...

Breeding snakes is much more enjoyable as a hobby, as opposed to a sustaining business. In my experience.

And yet there are quite a few folks that have made a nice living at it.

[Robyn@SYR]

Aaron stole it from me... but that's ok because I stole it from Kevin at NERD. ;)

Actually I might have got it from you Morti : )

Either way. Brilliant : )

[iballpythons]

While I recognize the overwhelming factors in doing this for a living... I say fly it up the flagpole and see who salutes it kid. The only people who tell you that you can't do something are the people who didn't do it themselves. Be ready for a hard road, but maybe you'll come up with a new way of doing things that someone hasn't thought of yet. Good luck to ya... but do some research first.

[Robyn@SYR]

I think your best bet to start a "breeding business" is to start in a spare room. One or two pairs of reptiles that you REALLY LIKE working with. A baby rack for production, and no grand plans.

Little overhead, def no rent, utilities or employee costs, just start easy and slow. If you make money for three years running, consider expanding from there.

[knox]

I think your best bet to start a "breeding business" is to start in a spare room. One or two pairs of reptiles that you REALLY LIKE working with. A baby rack for production, and no grand plans.

Little overhead, def no rent, utilities or employee costs, just start easy and slow. If you make money for three years running, consider expanding from there.

Best advice I have read in this thread.

[rmfsnakes32]

All very good points I hope we didnt shut his dream down he sounds sincere and could make a go of it!

[DeesBalls]

I think your best bet to start a "breeding business" is to start in a spare room. One or two pairs of reptiles that you REALLY LIKE working with. A baby rack for production, and no grand plans.

Little overhead, def no rent, utilities or employee costs, just start easy and slow. If you make money for three years running, consider expanding from there.

This is what I am doing. Just to start off. Great advice.

[RobsCornField]

I've got a room with 40 snakes right now. I breed a couple clutches a year for fun. At the moment, I've only got cornsnakes breeding. Yeah, they're not the biggest market out there, but I got the pleasure this year of saying that I produced two morphs that were the first ones in the world. To me, that's what makes it worth it. Heck, even just watching the eggs pip makes it all worth it to me! It's not about the money, and never has been. Yeah, it's nice to be able to put that towards the expenses, or purchase of a new animal, but there's nothing more awesome than looking into an incubator and seeing a baby poke it's head out of the egg for the first time. One of my lifetime goals will come in about a year and a half from now when I pair my 100-Flower rat snakes for the first time. Watching those eggs pip will probably make me faint, and be one of the most memorable moments of my life. So I'll echo what quite a few other people have said so far: don't do it for the money. Do it because it's something you love.

[shaunyboy]

imo you really need to produce,high end top quality snakes,also imo you need to try and work out,which type of snake will be " the in thing " next year,then the year after,then the year after,etc,etc

then even if you manage,to produce the next big thing,the prices will drop relatively slowly for the first 3 years,then after that,imo the prices plummet down really fast,with the snakes costing a mere fraction,of what they did 4 years previously...

take the Zebra Jungle Carpet Python Morph,hatchlings were around
£2200 3 years ago,£1200 2 years ago,£750 1 year ago,now you will get one for around £400,so it don't last long...

then you need the next big thing....

if you want to breed straight away,then you would have to buy,the much more expensive,sexually mature adults,that or wait 4 years on hatchlings getting up to size,but by then its 4 year later and the hatchlings they would produce are now dirt cheap

if you want to get into higher end Morphs,then adults of rare Morphs command crazy prices,i once saw a royal python (ball python) Multipule Gene Morph,go up for sale at £32,000,but that snake most likely have took 12 or more years to create

then there's things like,snakes who don't produce,snakes that get ill,people lose interest in those particular snakes,a few people produce the exact same type of snake flooding the market,etc,etc

i remember a few years ago,another Carpet Keeper i regard as a good friend and my mentor,brought the price of Bredl Pythons down,from £150 to £200 each,to £85 each.....

this was achieved with,one large clutch of Bredl that he produced,then simply dropped his price,he believes that when he sells them cheap,they become more accessable,so more can keep them and maybe go on to breed more beautiful Carpet Pythons

if he makes enough money from hatchlings,to buy another couple of snakes,to add to his already impressive Morelia Collection,then he's happy...

if he also makes enough to cover his hobby,then he's bloody exstatic,but as said it's all about the snakes with him,imo in the last 2 years he has become one of the top,if not thee top,producer of top end,high class Morelia in the UK,imo he's catching up to Europe,this year he sold the cheapest Zebra's i've ever seen,he also produced Zebra Diamond Jungle Jag's,Zebra Jag's,etc

that breeding season just past,he most likely for the first time ever,made a good few thousand,which is great,but next year he won't have much too breed as he rests his females,then after a year off,they next time they are bred,the prices will have dropped,because more people are breeding them each year,as their snakes become sexually mature.

he bought some Albino Carpets this year,but will have to wait 2 years on them maturing,so hopefully he will get another bumper year,before things start dropping in price,there will also be more people with the same aged Albino's,who may produce for the first time,the same as my friend

so imo there's a lot of ups and down's financially,also there will be a lot of educated guesses going on

survive all that and you may just make it

sorry for all the doom and gloom,i only want you to go into this venture,with your eyes wide open,imo if you know what your up against,then you know what you have to do,in order to get through it

i sincerely wish you all the best,should you precede with your venture

cheers shaun

[Desert]

"The easiest way to make a million dollars in the reptile market is to start with 2 million, and work your way down."

(Stolen from Aaron at IHerp. But that just about captures it.)

Or, he can start with nothing, and work a million hours. ;)

[HerpVenue]

Started in my living room. Moved it to a bedroom. Moved it to the larger part of a three car garage.

[red ink]

The only real profitable breeding business in the reptile industry is breeding rats and mice....

[Skumbo]

BTW guys he hasnt logged on since he posted this thread, lol.

[Aaron_S]

... If you really want to do this, find something that not many people are working with that you like and work with them, there's enough ball python, corn snake, and single gene retic breeders out there...

I really dislike when people say this type of stuff. It's the snake snob-i-ness coming out I suppose ;)

Just because it's not something everything is working with doesn't mean it's automatically going to make you a ton of money. For example, no body really works with the rubber boa but that doesn't mean you'll make money hand over fist breeding them. There's still limited people who can or want to keep them. Especially with the more difficult to keep animals.

The reason people breed those animals en masse is because there's a large demand for them and because it's SO easy to keep them. There's always a beginner out there but there's not many people who can handle white lipped pythons on a day-to-day basis.

[Jay]

There is a great animated video that you should see.

[rmfsnakes32]

BTW guys he hasnt logged on since he posted this thread, lol.
He must not have been happy with the responses. He was probably expecting people tell him what he wants to hear

[Strutter769]

This thread is awesome! Fantastic advice as always from this group.

So, since you all "scared away" the OP (kidding), I'm going to pretend I started it. :-)

As some of you may remember, I recently asked for name ideas for a name for my small breeding endeavours and am currently working with a designer on a logo. I do plan to get or share a table at shows, FB page connected to a couple domains etc, So I really take all this advice to heart.

Thank you and keep the feedback coming! I'm "all ears (eyes)!"

[mykee]

"The only real profitable breeding business in the reptile industry is breeding rats and mice.... "
This is a load of bullshyt.
There is a tonne of money to be made breeding snakes if you keep your overhead down, and focus your attention on one species.
Though there is a trillion dollars out there to be made breeding and selling the food that ALL of our reptiles eat, breeding snakes can and is still a very profitable venture.
I had $4800 in expenses last year: water, electricity, paper towels, bedding, rodent food, frozen rodents, disposable water cups, Post-Its, sticky labels, shipping supplies, etc.
I made over 20 times that last year alone.
This year is even better and I consider myself a mid tier breeder, I don't even do this full time.

[millertime89]

I really dislike when people say this type of stuff. It's the snake snob-i-ness coming out I suppose ;)

Just because it's not something everything is working with doesn't mean it's automatically going to make you a ton of money. For example, no body really works with the rubber boa but that doesn't mean you'll make money hand over fist breeding them. There's still limited people who can or want to keep them. Especially with the more difficult to keep animals.

The reason people breed those animals en masse is because there's a large demand for them and because it's SO easy to keep them. There's always a beginner out there but there's not many people who can handle white lipped pythons on a day-to-day basis.

That comment of mine was directed towards 2 things, even the people shooting for 2, 3, 4, etc. gene animals (I think BHB hit a possible 7 this season) still produce 1 gene and normal animals; and I've seen a bunch of BP breeders at shows recently that have a table full of balls and then a few dozen baby retics. I've spoken to a few of them and they view the retics as "easy money" because you can have 1.2 and still make several thousand off of 50 dollar babies because you get so many of them and I've started seeing a crazy number of baby hets/poss hets, albinos, tigers, and sunfires at shows and other retic people have noticed it as well.

I think I admitted in another thread I've turned into a reptile snob, if not I admit it here. Its not that I don't like seeing new ball pythons and corn snake morphs, its just after seeing 70% of breeders in a room with nothing but them I just want to see some variety. There are so many awesome species out there that people are having success breeding that don't even have any morphs that you just don't see at expos and it saddens me. I don't get why there's a demand for one species and not for some others. I know not everyone likes the other stuff but I just don't get the draw of ball pythons. Heck I just picked up a Savu python and a Vietnamese Blue Beauty at the last KC expo because of my affinity for the weird and uncommon. That and I've been looking for them for a while and got a decent deal on them.

[red ink]

This is a load of bullshyt.
There is a tonne of money to be made breeding snakes if you keep your overhead down, and focus your attention on one species.
Though there is a trillion dollars out there to be made breeding and selling the food that ALL of our reptiles eat, breeding snakes can and is still a very profitable venture.
I had $4800 in expenses last year: water, electricity, paper towels, bedding, rodent food, frozen rodents, disposable water cups, Post-Its, sticky labels, shipping supplies, etc.
I made over 20 times that last year alone.
This year is even better and I consider myself a mid tier breeder, I don't even do this full time.

Fair enough... but you must take into consideration how long you have been at this for and the stock you keep. Yes I can turn around a tidy profit from snakes if I invest 100k in the latest high end stuff (all adults and breeding). Starting off maybe not so much of a profit.

The OP or any new reptile mogul would not have that luxury... cages to build, animals to acquire (knowledge to acquire) etc etc ect... As with any new business venture investment in the capital is the key.

[Skumbo]

95K after expenses isn't a bad deal, lol. What volume of snakes are you moving though? Mostly mid-high end morphs profit wise?

[Aaron_S]

That comment of mine was directed towards 2 things, even the people shooting for 2, 3, 4, etc. gene animals (I think BHB hit a possible 7 this season) still produce 1 gene and normal animals; and I've seen a bunch of BP breeders at shows recently that have a table full of balls and then a few dozen baby retics. I've spoken to a few of them and they view the retics as "easy money" because you can have 1.2 and still make several thousand off of 50 dollar babies because you get so many of them and I've started seeing a crazy number of baby hets/poss hets, albinos, tigers, and sunfires at shows and other retic people have noticed it as well.

I think I admitted in another thread I've turned into a reptile snob, if not I admit it here. Its not that I don't like seeing new ball pythons and corn snake morphs, its just after seeing 70% of breeders in a room with nothing but them I just want to see some variety. There are so many awesome species out there that people are having success breeding that don't even have any morphs that you just don't see at expos and it saddens me. I don't get why there's a demand for one species and not for some others. I know not everyone likes the other stuff but I just don't get the draw of ball pythons. Heck I just picked up a Savu python and a Vietnamese Blue Beauty at the last KC expo because of my affinity for the weird and uncommon. That and I've been looking for them for a while and got a decent deal on them.

It's rather simple when you come out of the clouds and realize what truly makes these animals desirable in one's collection. It does have to do with the colour and patterns you can get but also there's plenty of people with just normals as this forum can attest too. It's based on the care, space and requirements for these animals.

We'll take your savu and blue beauty as examples. They both have a reputation for being nippy and not easy to handle. (yes there are exceptions but with ball pythons nippy ones are the exception and not the "rule") The blue beauty can get up to 7 feet and that's no easy snake to handle or deal with when it's musking you and trying to bite you daily.

I get what you're after. You want to be "different" for the sake of being different. Do you not like woma pythons? They were 2k a snake 10 years ago (before your time I'm sure) and now they can be had for nothing. I bet you don't like them because they aren't "weird or uncommon" anymore.

I'll say it, and mean it, get off your high horse and realize basic animals in this hobby aren't just for the beginner or the money-maker, it's for everyone. They are amazing animals in their own right and you need to not look down your nose at them or those who keep them. One day, you're "weird and uncommon" snakes will have their day and you'll probably sell them or say "I was into them before they were popular." Who cares? Enjoy them for the sake of enjoying the way the species is or looks (and savus are wicked cool as babies) and not because you can feel superior as a keeper because you aren't "mainstream".

[millertime89]

I prefer blackheads to womas, the eye-brow effect from the black marks over their eyes on that yellow head looks weird IMO, but I don't dislike them. Definitely before my time, I wish I had 2k when I was 13 period. Not weird or uncommon? Hardly, maybe Canada is different but I still rarely see them.

Yes my VBB and Savu are nippy (Savu got me the day I bought him and the VBB got me on the first day of feeding, neither broke the skin and they'll be coming out tonight so I can clean), but I didn't buy them to handle them. I bought them because they're another species that fascinates me. The parents of the VBB weren't nippy either (I'll gladly concede they were the exception here). Here's mom btw.
http://www.1320video.com/img/album392/MG_1263.sized.jpg

Basic? I think you're missing the part where there are loads of other "basic" animals, ones that are far more basic than BPs. There are plenty of other species of manageable size and temperament out there. Take your pick of any number of other colubrids. Children's and Stimson's pythons are great too. I'm not saying that BPs aren't great, they have their place, sure, but the sheer volume of them has become boring. I realize corn snakes and boas have both gone through this phase, and still are to a lesser extant than BPs, carpets are headed that way I think. I don't care if the weird ones that I have get popular, if they do, great, that means that other people will see the strange species for what they are and will get to experience the same fascination with them that I do.

I like my high horse, I wish more people would get up here.

[Wildside]

Why don't the latest morphs fit into your category of weird and uncommon?

The shear volume of BP's becoming boring is why morphs are so desired. That and each time a BP, Boa, or Cornsnake throws out something amazing and never before seen it refreshes the market for that species. Not only that but puts on an amazing display of endless possibility regarding genetics and evolution throughout the animal kingdom.

[millertime89]

Why don't the latest morphs fit into your category of weird and uncommon?

Just more yellow and brown. I seldom see a BP morph I like. I can appreciate the work that goes into getting them, but I just don't get excited about them.

[Aaron_S]

We'll talk basic then. No animal beats the corn snake at size, temperment, price, ease of care, forgiving of keeper mistakes and not only that plenty of colours and mutations for anyone! Colours for anyone who likes it.

The ball python comes second due to it's feeding issues.

With all this it makes it simple that they're aren't more basic animals than this.

go look in the right places and you can find these "weird and uncommon" animals. You just obviously aren't looking in the right spot.

[mykee]

"What volume of snakes are you moving though? Mostly mid-high end morphs profit wise? "
Everything ranging from free normals to $5000+ quint genes.

[Gregg M]

mykee,
I agree with everything you said but this one sentence.

and focus your attention on one species.


I have noticed that since I have branched into other species, I have made a considerable amount more than when I was breeding just one or two species. You could be correct in general but my experience tells me otherwise.

[mykee]

Gregg, I have found that those who were successful with their initial focus of one species and made their mark with them, then decided to branch out do well. It is imperative that you make your mark with your "signature" species prior to branching out.
Mark Mandic did it (balls, then boas), Corey Woods did it (balls, then burms, boas and bloods) Me (balls, then KSB) and on a faaaaar lesser scale; Aaron (balls, then Rough Scales).

[Wildside]

Just more yellow and brown. I seldom see a BP morph I like. I can appreciate the work that goes into getting them, but I just don't get excited about them.


More Brown & Yellow? U srs?

[Gregg M]

Gregg, I have found that those who were successful with their initial focus of one species and made their mark with them, then decided to branch out do well. It is imperative that you make your mark with your "signature" species prior to branching out).

That I can agree with as well. Good point.

[red ink]

Everything ranging from free normals to $5000+ quint genes.


Nice!... not only for the obvious financial return but also the possibilities you can create with an animal like that, just exciting mate.

[Corey Woods]

If you average everything over the year my expenses are about $10,000/month and I do it out of my house.

Your hydro and feed bills will be lower (because you probably don't have 1000 snakes like I do) but your rent will be higher.

[Aaron_S]

If you average everything over the year my expenses are about $10,000/month and I do it out of my house.

Your hydro and feed bills will be lower (because you probably don't have 1000 snakes like I do) but your rent will be higher.

Do you enjoy bringing up old threads Corey? lol :D

[mykee]

There's nowhere else for him to go, that is.....unless he reopens his old site with two built-in Mods and a financial backer..nudge nudge wink wink Corey Woods!!!!

[KORBIN5895]

Now this was an entertaining read.

Can I just say that for my six boas (of which I have a moonglow litter coming) I have lost maybe $300 last year. That includes feeders, a custom built cage( which cost me $200), and the acquisition of a female breeder albino het anery, a breeder ghost het albino, a breeder dh snow( who is for sale) and a female hypo Abby ghost jungle. I did not figure in power cost but it is really cheap.

[mykee]

Don't expect to actually make money until your 5th or 6th year in business.

[Aaron_S]

Now this was an entertaining read.

Can I just say that for my six boas (of which I have a moonglow litter coming) I have lost maybe $300 last year. That includes feeders, a custom built cage( which cost me $200), and the acquisition of a female breeder albino het anery, a breeder ghost het albino, a breeder dh snow( who is for sale) and a female hypo Abby ghost jungle. I did not figure in power cost but it is really cheap.

I have a really good write up for such a thing. It's for ball pythons though. I'm sure with some modifications it could work with almost any species.

[shaunyboy]

reptile shops in my area will tell you,they make their solid weekly money,from selling,frozen prey,live prey,also reptile accessories like,vivariums,thermostats,heat mats,etc

selling people reptiles,makes them have to spend a large amount initially,then weekly money comes in from the new keepers,weekly reptile needs

imo you would have more chance of making money breeding prey,to sell to the masses...

a snakes gotta eat

cheers shaun

[Aaron_S]

I'll do it as a seven year thing to show money can be made with breeding purely snakes.

We'll take into account that the rack system has been built and the tools are all set to make it a bit more simple. I have a 50 bin adult rack and 100 bin baby rack. I spent $3000.

I thought about this and want to invest. I've saved up and now ready to buy my animals. I buy 3 morph females. R, S, T, All co-dom animals.

Feeding per year per animal: baby $50
yearling $75
2 year+ adult $125
Prices based on the average that I personally pay currently.

[Aaron_S]

Year 1:
I buy 5 baby female morphs of R for $1000 each for $5000 total
I buy 5 yearling female morphs of S for $1500 each for $ 7500 total
I also buy 5 yearling female morphs of T for $1500 each for $7500 total

Now I need to feed all these for a year. $50 dollars for each baby and $75 dollars for the yearlings each. $1000 total for the year.

Profit: $0
Debt: $24000

Year 2:
I buy two yearling males of morph U for $2000 each for $4000 total.
I buy 5 new females of morph V for $1000 at $5000 total.
I keep raising everything for another year.

Feed bill: 7 yearlings at $75 a head for $525
10 adult snakes at $125 a head for $ 1250
5 babies at $50 a head for $250 total

Profit:$0
Debt: $35075

Summary: Historically this is usually where the “quick buck” people get out as they realize it isn’t going to happen. I may produce babies in year 3 but I won’t be reducing my debt by much.

Year 3:
This is the start of breeding for me!
First I buy 5 more females of morph W for $1000 each total $5000.
I breed my male U morphs to the 10 females of morph S and T.
3 of each go and give me an average of 6 eggs each.
I get a breakdown of the 36 eggs as:
9 normals $25
18 single morphs $400
5 morph US $1000
4 morph UT $1000
I holdback a 1.3 of each double cross of US and UT.
The rest of the feeding bill is after holding them all the for sale animals for 4 months: $448
Sold total: $8425
Total collection: 35 animals of various sizes.
Rat feeding for year: 13 babies at $50 a head for $650
22 adults at $125 a head for $2750
Total rat bill: $3400

Profit: $8425
Debt: Year 2 + 5000 + 3400 – 8425 = $35050

Summary: Year 3 was good. My animals paid for my entire collection to eat and most of my new investment! Pretty good start to my first year of production plus I have lots of holdbacks!

Year 4:
I breed everything again this season including the morph R girls.
3 Morph R.
2 Morph S.
2 morph T.
I get average 6 eggs again and 42 total.
Depreciation: 10 normals $25 each
21 single morphs $200 each
6 double moprhs $650 each
5 UR (new) morphs $650 each
I hold back 1.3 morph UR
Again I feed them all for 4 months $608 feeding bill before they sell.
Sold total: $9000
Collection and feeding: 4 babies $50 a head $200
13 yearlings $75 a head $975
22 adults $125 a head $2750
Total food $4533

Profit: $9000
Debt: year 3 + 4533 - $9000 = $ $30583

Summary: Year 4 saw some similar sales but animals were held back and I cut into my Year end debt with my sales only after TWO seasons of production. Everything is still going into the business though.

Year 5:
I do not buy anything new. I just breed. My holdback UT and US males are ready to breed and breed the 15 adult females again. The proven morph U males breed with the 5 now adult morph V’s for 20 total. 3 of each go and give me a total of 12 clutches of 6 eggs for 72.
3 of the V breeders go producing 18 eggs.
4 normals $25
5 U morphs $100
4 V morphs $200
5 UV morphs $650
I keep 0.3 UV and sell the rest:$2700
3 each of the other girls go with the double males with 6 eggs each.

Morph R breakdown: Morph S breakdown:
3 UTR morphs $1000 3 USS morphs $1000
11 double morphs $400 8 double morphs $450
2 single morphs $100 7 single morphs $100
2 normals $25 I sell everything for: $7300
I keep a male UTR. This group sells for: $5450

Morph T breakdown:
2 UTS morphs $1000
8 double morphs $400
4 single morphs $100
4 normals $25
I holdback the 1.1 UTS and sell everything else for: $3700
Selling total: $19150
Collection and feeding bill:
64 babies fed for 4 months: $1024
6 babies for a year: $300
4 yearlings for a year: $300
35 adults for a year: $4375
Total: $5999

Profit: $19150
Debt: year 4 + $5999 - $19150 = $17432

Summary: Woohoo! I’ve overcome my yearly expenses by a lot and cut into my overall debt. Still not in the black but longevity will show the real money. Bare with me a bit longer.

Year 6: I again don’t buy anything but breed 31 females this year. I get 19 females go 6 eggs average for total 115 babies. End of season I sell off my proven male U morphs for $200 each.
3 Morph R girls produce: 3 Morph S girls:
1 USR $650 3 UTS morphs $650
12 double morphs $200 9 double morphs $200
4 single morphs $75 5 single morphs $75
Total: $3275 after selling everything. 1 normal $25
Total: $4150 after selling them all.

2 Morph T girls: 3 Morph V girls:
2 UTT morphs $750 4 URV morphs $1000
8 double morphs $200 6 double morphs $200
4 single morphs $75 3 single morphs $75
2 normals $25 total: 0.2 triple morph holdbacks. $3425
Total: I hold back the triples. $1950

3 Morph W girls: 2 Morph UT girls:
4 UW morphs $400 1 UUTT morph $1500
10 single morphs $100 2 triple morphs $800
8 normals $25 4 double morphs $200
Total: I hold 0.3 UW morphs. $1600 1 single morph $75
Total: I keep the UUTT and sellfor: $2475

2 Morph US girls: 1 UR girl:
2 UUSS morphs $1500 1 UUTR morph $2000
2 triple morphs $650 3 triple morphs $650
7 double morphs $200 2 double morph $200
3 single morphs $75 1 single morph $75
Total: I sell everything: $5925 Total: I hold the UUTR &rest: $2475
1 UR girl:
1 UUTR morph $2000
3 triple morphs $650
2 double morph $200
1 single morph $75
Total: I holdback the super and sell the rest for: $2475

Total: $25675
Feeding for all sale babies is for 4 months = $1728
Collection feeding:
7 babies $350
6 yearlings $450
39 adults $ 4875
Total: $7403
Profit:$25,675
Debt: Year 5 + 7403 – 25675 = $ -840

Summary: Into the black we go! It isn’t much but I’ve got holdbacks and lots of females this season to produce!

Year 7: I breed everything again. My females are great again and this looks to be a good season with 24 females of the 39 breed! I get 151 babies.
My triple males are now breeding with my 3 double males as well.
My morph R girls produce: My S morph girls produce:
2 UTRR morphs $1500 4 triple morphs $400
7 triple morphs $400 8 double morphs $150
6 double morphs $150 6 single morphs $ 50
3 single morphs $50 6 single morphs $ 50
I hold UTRR and sell the rest: $3850 6 normals $25
I sell everything for: $3350

My T morphs girls produce: My V girls produce:
3 UTTS morphs $1500 1 UTRV morph $1250
5 triple morphs $400 5 triple morphs $400
2 double morphs $150 3 double morphs $150
3 single morphs $50 2 single morphs $50
I hold 1.1 UTTS and sell others: $3950 5 normals $25
I sell all of these for: $3925

My W girls produce: My UR girls produce:
1 UTSW morph $1000 2 quad morphs $1500
7 triple morphs $400 6 triple morphs $400
4 double morphs $150 2 double morphs $150
9 single morphs $50 6 single morphs $50
3 normals $25 I sell everything for: $6000
I keep UTSW and sell the rest: $3925

My US girls produce: My UV girls produce:
4 quad morphs $1000 2 quad morphs $1200
2 triple morphs $400 3 triple morphs $500
1 double morph $150 1 double morph $200
4 single morphs $50 6 single morphs $50
I sell all for: $5150 I sell these all for: $4400

My UR girls produce: My UT girls produce:
1 UURTS morph $3000 1 UUTTR morph $3000
3 quad morphs $850 3 quad morphs $900
4 triple morphs $425 2 triple morphs $500
2 double morphs $175 3 double morphs $250
1 single morph $100 1 single morph $100
I keep the quint and sell rest: $4700 I keep UUTTR and sell the rest:$4550
Sold total: $43,800
Feed bill for sale babies is: $2336
Rest of collection:
Babies 5 for $50 a head $250
7 yearlings for $75 a head $525
45 adults for $125 a head $5625
Total: $8736
Profit: Year 6 + 43800 – 8736 = $35,905
Summary: FIVE years. All it takes is FIVE years of some moderate investments.

[Aaron_S]

Technically, you can achieve these profits in a much shorter time if you have no issues with going into debt to get your seed money at the start or at any point throughout the process. I did this without any personal debt or loans taken, so from day one, I was essentially debt free and didn’t owe a single person any money in any way.
Total profit over 5 full seasons of breeding: $62954 after taking into account all the food the 2 additional investments of 5,000 each.

This would mean that with an investment of $24,000 and in 7 years more than double it. That doesn’t take into account all the holdbacks and the next breeding seasons. Also, I could double my racks and buy more morphs that are higher valued.

[KORBIN5895]

I actually may have made money last year but my record keeping kinda went to pot around October. I'm not really sure what my last quarter profits were.

[Strutter769]

I'm expecting to kick-off Next Generation Boas with a litter that will blow away what I've ever pictured would be my first. Couldn't be more excited!

[jimmy62alan]

if you can cut down the heating and fuel costs this could be a great saving, if you can get into wind, solar and recycled fuel this in its self can save a fortune every year.
I don't mean pay a company to fit a wind turbine, solar panel or solar water heaters but make them your self. If you actually delve into making the systems your self you can again save a lot of money, I've been using recycled fuel for years this can be cooking oil or motor oil the process is very similar for both oils. The cooking oil is smelly and smells of fishshop but I worked on a making that better and now it has a citrus smell and I don't get tailbacks of people following me in my van now because of the smell lol.
My future plans are to move to France and set up a ECO-REPTILE HOUSE, it will take a **** load of planning but in the long run it will be a very economical way of living and have reptiles as part of it as well lol
ALAN
Sheffield, England S25 2RN

[stephanbakir]

Saw this and had to share

[snakeman879]

Start small take your time and all the best to you good luck