View Full Version : my little monitor
so im new member, posted my intro in the new members section and figured it was time to post my monitors intro here now. bought her when she was about 2 months old (as told by the breeder) so shes about 4-6 months now i believe. originally my plan was to fine the komaini, until i researched the monitor species and found out how hard it really is to buy a young black dragon. i was lucky enough to find someone selling a water monitor. he told me this was a nile monitor, but im pretty sure this is ornate water monitor so as me being a first time monitor owner, i figured this would also give me a good chance to get more experienced members input as well... im not entirely sure what the differences are, i do know that she is very skittish when i walk by the cage. she will burrow in the ground section, or run and leap into the water section. i do hold her daily because i feel that you have to make contact with them, and have to let them know your not there to hurt them. when holding she likes to try and get a little flighty, but it lasts 5 seconds then shes just chillin and climbing from hand to hand.
she does not eat from feeder tongs, i think shes still a little to shy, but as soon as i drop the food in and close cage shes in attack mode! Shes currently on crickets, which was another question of when i should start upgading to frozens? when i first got her, (im assuming due to stress in new home) she went 2 days without eating, but soon got over that and now eatin crickets non stop (sadly she made friends with the 2 feeder fish i put in for her)
basically i am a new monitor owner, i am still learning the breed. but am very determined to give her everything she needs, my only problem is finding right information from the numerous sites claiming to give the best info. so with that said if i forgot to mention anything lol i got some vids of her swimming, eating, and some pics of her so hopefully it helps with my assumtion of the sub species she is.
Ps - currently have no name for her as i dont know 100 if shes female/male
forgot a couple vids
swimming half of cage
GjtatT6WG8Y
Eating cricket and fiber substrate half of cage
f746sljcGUg
infernalis
09-17-12, 03:15 PM
Certainly looks like a baby Nile to me.
Breeder? I would bet you have been lied to, they are imported in huge numbers and wholesale for 10 dollars or less each to dealers.
simpleyork
09-17-12, 03:16 PM
varanus ornatus looks like to me, is her tongue pink? if then, it is an ornate which is different then niles or water monitors.
what are you housing it in? these get big fast I have one that his 3 feet by the first year and I've heard they can get 4 feet in a year as well.
they are fun but need a lot of room good luck and lets see more pictures!!
Gatorhunter1231
09-17-12, 03:20 PM
It's not an ornate water monitor or a Nile monitor for that matter. It is an ornate monitor and has been classified as it's own species.
Setup is pretty much the same. I'll double check the pics later when I'm on a computer (on phone right now). There is no such thing as an ornate water monitor btw.
Gatorhunter1231
09-17-12, 03:22 PM
There appears to be 5 bands on my phone which is ornate. Niles have 7-9 Banda of spots if I remember correctly.
simpleyork
09-17-12, 03:25 PM
yup five bands it looks to me as well
that last video showa a pink tongue to me Ithink
Ornate most definitly
Pirarucu
09-17-12, 03:25 PM
Varanus ornatus, previously a subspecies of niloticus, hence the confusion. Not a water monitor though, these guys usually live in forests..
As far as care goes, you will need a 12'x6' cage at the minimum for an ornate, with a moist soil substrate to burrow in. The basking spot should be around 130+ degrees Fahrenheit, keep in mind that is surface temperature, not air temperature. Feed whole prey items such as bugs, worms, crayfish, shrimp, craps, mice, birds, etc.
Don't force handle it. Doing that will just make it hate your guts. the best way to go about it is to let it come to you on its own terms. Keep in mind, it may never do that, and it's quite possible it will be mean throughout it's life, so be prepared for that eventuality.
yeah after countless articles i had come to terms with it as ornate by the bands and the pink tongue... lol i noticed as well i said breeder, that was wrong lol he is a breeder but not of monitors. im currently working on his/her future home as i read they will get 6-7ft plus so i was thinking giving it its own room, im wanting to do everything possible so that when it becomes large and beastly it isnt mean... last thing i want is to have a baby godzilla running around beating up everyone who comes near it
simpleyork
09-17-12, 03:46 PM
Go check out my post of Godzilla the ornate
love the bugger and he hates me lol
infernalis
09-17-12, 03:58 PM
Go check out my post of Godzilla the ornate
love the bugger and he hates me lol
That would be like my Cera..
Can't even get a hand close to that monster without bleeding.
so is there anything i can do to prevent this? i mean its baby now and has never made an attempt to snap, never even opens mouth at me. very calm when holding, very calm really all the time, only time its not calm is when i walk by cage monitor will try to burrow and hide from me lol
Rudiman
09-17-12, 04:20 PM
If kept right, probably not. But you might get lucky.
Scott
infernalis
09-17-12, 04:20 PM
I hate to say it, but generally "calm" means scared out of it's wits.
Most keepers prefer the building trust with time method.
Be it's friend, not it's master.
Rudiman
09-17-12, 04:23 PM
I agree.....but keep your wits (and fingers) about you, they are extremely fast and powerful as adults.
Scott
have u finished ur trust building thread yet? im wanting to try the trust things but like i mentioned there are so many articles out there its hard to tell which ones are going to be actually helpful, and which r jus bs
Rudiman
09-17-12, 04:30 PM
Day to routine maintenance....show it you are always there. No forced handling at all! After some time, you may get to pet or scratch it on its terms. I have a pair of black rough necks, I may have handled them 4 times in the past year and half. They know when I am changing the water or turning the substrate or feeding. They get a little suspicious but don't flee and hide.
Scott
so i have to stop holding it? :( god that sucks lol
Rudiman
09-17-12, 05:04 PM
The forced handling causes stress, which can eventually kill the monitor. If it does not kill it or make it sick, then having a 6ft monitor that is skittish or overly aggressive is not what you want.
What are you housing it in? Temps? Humidity?
Scott
right now i have a terrarium set up sectioned off water and land, spray in cage daily to keep up with humidity, basking temp varies from 90-105, the rest of cage stays usually mid high high 80 to 90
Rudiman
09-17-12, 05:17 PM
How big of a terrarium?
Scott
simpleyork
09-17-12, 05:35 PM
basking temp needs to be at least 130 surface temp
mine likes 160 ish
20-1/2"L x 38"W x 18-1/2"H
she was in smaller, so i figured this would do ok until im finished with her building
and i will pick up another uvb bulb tomorrow then to make sure her heating is more suited
simpleyork
09-17-12, 06:08 PM
I use 45 watt hallogen bulbs. Just move them closer or further away from the basking spot to get the temps you need
ive got a 100 watt red, and i believe 5 watt (purple) on left side of tank where water section is, the 100 watt goes into the dry section as well for some heat there as well... now is the screen top being mesh going to be a problem as well?
Pirarucu
09-17-12, 06:42 PM
ive got a 100 watt red, and i believe 5 watt (purple) on left side of tank where water section is, the 100 watt goes into the dry section as well for some heat there as well... now is the screen top being mesh going to be a problem as well?Ditch those bulbs. The high wattage is just going to dry out the air, which isn't what you want. Use low wattage halogen flood bulbs, they make a much more even basking surface without drying out the air. And yes, the screen top is a problem. No matter how much you mist it, the humidity will just go straight out of the top. Sealed cage with moist dirt and low watt flood bulbs. Done.
Rudiman
09-17-12, 06:43 PM
Screen top is a no no, it will not retain humidity.
Scott
i see, i was originally going to use glass top on a 250 gal aquarium i have, but a friend had told me the bulbs would ruin the top.... so basically its soundin like i need to jujs build it a nice cage now? lol dont have much selection for terrariums here
simpleyork
09-17-12, 07:23 PM
you can coverthe screen where the light is not with some plywood for a quick fix, But lets get a larger enclosure built forthat dude so he wont suffer what so many monitors do.
infernalis
09-17-12, 07:37 PM
you can coverthe screen where the light is not with some plywood for a quick fix, But lets get a larger enclosure built forthat dude so he wont suffer what so many monitors do.
I second that motion.
Glass aquarium/terrariums are not suitable for monitor lizards, ever.
One of the things I appreciate so much about this forum compared to others is the kindness of the people.
I see threads like turn into "scolding the original poster" sessions, but not here.
got it, yea most of my info and his setup originally came from a guy i know on and off who for the most part seems to know his stuff regarding reptiles and amphibs... yet so far u guys have taken this in and made him to looks like a 2nd grader of reptiles lol... so with that said what should i go ahead and make the monitors new enclosure set to? LxWxH specifications?
simpleyork
09-17-12, 08:08 PM
bigger the better
14x8x7 sounds good make sure he has at least two feet of dirt to build a burrow in
mine LOVES to burrow!!! he's got a 18" deep one right now I'll get some photos for you tomorrow
cool appreciate that, i am lookin forward to seein some pics and will start drawing up blue prints for the new cage, how long will this new setup be good for?
size wise
simpleyork
09-17-12, 08:58 PM
it could be a final enclosure unless you have more room to give him
well i have a foundationed shed in my back yard that i just got electricity hooked to, i was thinking about sectioning the top off like 4 ft from the roof, enclosing that part and keeping uvb bulbs and what not there, basically turning it into an entire little fores section... i realize that being a shed would be hard to maintain the humid and temps, but i was thinking i could make it work i dont see why not... really its jus like having a bedroom in the house for one with no ac/heater (can fix that problem by using window unit though)
simpleyork
09-17-12, 09:44 PM
Im in the process of figuring a final enclosure for my ornate and it will be built outside as well insulated and heated/cooled depending on time of year. right now he's in a 4'x6'x4'
enclosure (on my wife's storage room)
yea the shed is pretty much storage room, but its bedroom sized, with nothin in it... figured i cud use it... just dont wanna put the money in it if its no point ya kno?
very excited to see ur ornate and the setup u have going on
simpleyork
09-18-12, 01:16 PM
meet Godzilla
E8DKiu3_GmU
burrow
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af276/simpleyork/P1010575.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af276/simpleyork/P1010576.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af276/simpleyork/P1010577.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af276/simpleyork/P1010579.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af276/simpleyork/P1010586.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af276/simpleyork/P1010584.jpg
man just beautiful!! how is his temper with u btw? do u know length and weight by chance? seeing godzilla is gettin me so excited for mine to grow up lol
On a side note, i decided to try pinkies out today with mine and it was another fail for feeding with tongs, but when i set the pinkie on top of her hide away hut top, closed the top and put lights back on top walked away and turned round to watch... she took the pinkie, but still isnt taking anything from tongs
simpleyork
09-18-12, 04:01 PM
her temper well she's only glad to see me put food in. she likes to be left alone and so I do. length is around 3 feet not sure on weight though. she should be bigger than this but in the early stages of keeping her she had escaped for awhile, had to tear a wall out once I did know where she was.
simpleyork
09-18-12, 04:02 PM
once I got her in the enclosure she is in now she has grown like a weed
Pirarucu
09-18-12, 06:21 PM
She is looking phenomenal!
JayoH, tong feeding will come with trust and size. Very rarely will tiny baby monitors take food from tongs straight away.
Nice little ornate monitor you got there best of luck just be patient and consistent and he will be awesome
okay, well i wont be giving up lol im so excited to see her grab food from the tongs... i was curious about one thing, her being her size what would be the required amount of pinkies to give her? i know the pinkies are very small...
simpleyork
09-18-12, 10:23 PM
as many as she will eat but make sure to vary her diet Mine loved roaches when she was small, still takes dubias like a champ now infact.
we dont have anywhere that i have found here that sells anything past pinkies and fuzzies lol, i know she doesnt do scrambled eggs... but ate ground turkey once or twice then jus stopped touching it, shell take on like 5 crickets back to back though before she goes back swimming
simpleyork
09-18-12, 10:55 PM
try to stay away from egg and turkey, you can order roaches turkistans are great but they do climb
that reminds of as well, do u guys have a site u would refer for food? as well as other supplies? im in west tx and its HELL to try and find her hiding rocks and what not lol
Pirarucu
09-18-12, 11:45 PM
Faunaclassifieds.com and market.kingsnake.com look in the feeders sections.
simpleyork
09-19-12, 12:58 AM
I think there's greg roberts inverts or something like that for roaches
great i will take a look, id love to give her a variety of things to try, the crickets work great. and i jus dropped another pinkie in im gonna be sneaky and see if i can catch her eating it from a distance. feeder fish she just made friends with and they dont seem to ever die so now i have inherited 2 minnow fish lol
simpleyork
09-19-12, 01:24 AM
mine loves fish when i do give them to her
i had read they like fish i even caught some cool vids on youtube of monitors eating fish, i put 2 n there about 2 weeks ago and there still just chillin lol, im guessing there eating the vitamin suppliments i put in the water side for food... non the less i was hopin to see some under water feedin action
dragonfire
09-20-12, 11:56 AM
I had an ornate for about 9 years; got her as a pup. I handled her every day, for at least 15 minutes, and she was flighty and bitey for about 2 years. I would also leave her cage open when we were in the room so she could get used to us. Then one night she was curious about something I was doing, and I showed her the various things I was putting in a drawer next to her cage. After that, she tamed down considerably. She got so tame I could hand-feed her, and she would take treats from my fingers without slowly and carefully, without even touching my fingers! She turned into my demo animal for presentations and shows, and was a hit wherever she went.
You can see pictures of her here:
ISIS (http://dragonfire1.50megs.com/Lizards/Isis.htm)
gorgeous monitor dragonfire, i hate that the whole not handling thing is being told by so many... when i was handling her she was very calm she was flighty for the first couple weeks, but after that i cud pick her up from the water and she wud jus relax on my hand, i wud hold her 10 minutes then after that put her in the cage and she wud walk off my hand when she was ready. she knew after holding it was time to eat and would sit on her dirt side waitin for crickets to be dropped in
simpleyork
09-20-12, 03:20 PM
nice colored monitor, though I would have to say that is a Nile not an Ornate, there are 6 or 7 rows of spots between the legs and a blue tongue. Ornates have 5 rows and pink tongues.
What were the temps you were keeping her at and humidity?
infernalis
09-20-12, 03:22 PM
Cage carpet, no substrate, no humidity.. 9 years was a miracle.
simpleyork
09-20-12, 03:41 PM
picking them up out of the water and them not moving much is usually cause by their body temps is way down from what they normaly need to function like the monitors they are. These are not domestic animals in anyway. In the end it is up to you how you care for your lizard, they should die of old age not from damage to their internal organs because of the lack thereof in their care.
(edited so as to be more specific) Bearded dragons and crested geckos (which are also wild animals)seem to better take the handling on a more constant basis if you want a lizard to handle
infernalis
09-20-12, 03:43 PM
Geckos and dragons are wild animals too.
simpleyork
09-20-12, 03:58 PM
yes I know, just they take better to handling then some wild animals
Of course, she's always in the water though, also I forgot to update I had recently upgraded her basking spot picked up 2 more thermometers the lowest temp in cage on water side is 98, her basking temp is around 108-115. Varies until I can get the screen mesh problem solved. She stays in the water side at the 98 area but I haven't seen her go to the basking side yet. Also bought some fake plants for water side to offer some more hides, she loves them but again isn't going near the basking side hide a way
Pirarucu
09-20-12, 06:14 PM
You need a wider temperature gradient, the cool side needs to be in the low 80's. She's overheated.
Ivanator
09-20-12, 06:27 PM
That's a nice looking ornate you got there. I used to feed mine pinkies twice a week by first putting the pinky in the cage with tongs so that it knew that's where the food was coming from. Then I tried feeding them with the tongs and after a couple tries he started taking them.
I agree with everyone about the not handling part, but it doesn't mean you can't touch it. When I had my nile, I would open the cage everyday to switch out the water and would just let my hand chill in it's cage. This was when it was a tiny baby also, and after a couple weeks of it, it finally got curious and just walked up to my hand and "licked it" I guess you would call it. Then I would just kinda pet it, more like a poke i guess, so that it knew that I wouldn't hurt it, when my hand came towards it. After about a year though, it finally came up and crawled on top of my hand so I slowly moved my hand out with it and it was smooth sailing from there.
I'm not saying that will happen with yours though. Just offering some techniques that worked with me. Mine was just a freak of nature I guess that was calmer than most cuz it never tried to bite me. Whipped at me a lot, but never bit.
I just watched a show on animal planet that said the Nile monitor is the next large invasive species to hit Florida and they are breading like crazy there now.
infernalis
09-20-12, 07:28 PM
I just watched a show on animal planet that said the Nile monitor is the next large invasive species to hit Florida and they are breading like crazy there now.
What show?
What show?
I think it was swamp wars or something they went over the only group of wild boas in the us (also in Florida) the Nile Monitors and a couple other things of that nature.
Nile monitor lizards invaded Florida and they're winning the battle - Tampa Bay Times (http://www.tampabay.com/news/environment/wildlife/article1011745.ece)
Ivanator
09-20-12, 11:19 PM
I think it was swamp wars or something they went over the only group of wild boas in the us (also in Florida) the Nile Monitors and a couple other things of that nature.
Nile monitor lizards invaded Florida and they're winning the battle - Tampa Bay Times (http://www.tampabay.com/news/environment/wildlife/article1011745.ece)
I've seen that show you're talking about. I don't think they said that they were breeding though cuz they aren't as spread out as the Burmese pythons. I think it said that they were mostly released and escaped monitors, but some could be breeding. The population is nowhere near the number of burms though. It potentially could be though
varanus_mad
09-21-12, 12:25 AM
Im inclined to think there not...
I am yet to see a hatchling nile on video/picture etc...
Theyve all been sub-adults to adults...
You need a wider temperature gradient, the cool side needs to be in the low 80's. She's overheated.
her dirt side is in 82-83 degrees.... maybe if i switch the uvblights around and just leave the basking spot on the water side and have a cool side would help then? oviously shes huge on water area lol would that be worth a shot
That's a nice looking ornate you got there. I used to feed mine pinkies twice a week by first putting the pinky in the cage with tongs so that it knew that's where the food was coming from. Then I tried feeding them with the tongs and after a couple tries he started taking them.
I agree with everyone about the not handling part, but it doesn't mean you can't touch it. When I had my nile, I would open the cage everyday to switch out the water and would just let my hand chill in it's cage. This was when it was a tiny baby also, and after a couple weeks of it, it finally got curious and just walked up to my hand and "licked it" I guess you would call it. Then I would just kinda pet it, more like a poke i guess, so that it knew that I wouldn't hurt it, when my hand came towards it. After about a year though, it finally came up and crawled on top of my hand so I slowly moved my hand out with it and it was smooth sailing from there.
I'm not saying that will happen with yours though. Just offering some techniques that worked with me. Mine was just a freak of nature I guess that was calmer than most cuz it never tried to bite me. Whipped at me a lot, but never bit.
thanks for the tips, i will give this a try as well... shes never whipped, and never even showed any type of aggression... i dont know i guess i see vids and pics of people holding there 5-6 ft monitors without gloves or anything for protection and i like the fact that though these are wild animals, im seeing people interacting with them as if they were puppy dogs
Pirarucu
09-21-12, 02:50 PM
her dirt side is in 82-83 degrees.... maybe if i switch the uvblights around and just leave the basking spot on the water side and have a cool side would help then? oviously shes huge on water area lol would that be worth a shotAh, you should be fine then. I misread it and thought you meant that the coolest temp she had access to was the 98 degrees.
StudentoReptile
09-21-12, 03:01 PM
I just watched a show on animal planet that said the Nile monitor is the next large invasive species to hit Florida and they are breading like crazy there now.
Peeyyew! Someone grab a shovel! Animal Planet is at it again!:rolleyes:
Pirarucu
09-21-12, 03:28 PM
Peeyyew! Someone grab a shovel! Animal Planet is at it again!:rolleyes:My thoughts exactly...
Aanayab1
09-21-12, 04:54 PM
Ah hahaha I think ^^^^ that way about the history channel all the time. I just try to take them as they are "tv shows" and look into the topics that really spark an intrest.
Antonio
infernalis
09-21-12, 05:51 PM
I prefer PBS & BBC any day.
No commercials on either as a bonus.
dragonfire
09-23-12, 09:23 AM
@Infernalis: Isis' cage was mutliple levels; you can see that in some of the pictures. The bottom level had a large soak bowl, and Care Fresh about 6" deep. She spent a lot of time in her soak bowl, only sometimes buried in the Care Fresh (usually at night), but when we were home, she preferred the top shelf where she could be with us when we were in the room. That piece of carpet had a kennel heater underneath it, and got her up to the high 90s on top - a bit more if she snuggled herself underneath.
She was also a free-roamer a lot of the time we were home, and we kept our house in around 80 for her. She had the option of being out and being in her cage, and she chose mostly to be out following me around the house. When she was out, she was mostly in the same room as I was - unless she wanted a big soak; then she'd climb up the stairs to the bathroom and climb into the tub and scratch at the spigot to let me know she wanted water. It made a racket you could hear all over the house.
As to the tongue color: the outer half was blue, and the back half was pink. The pictures don't show it - they weren't taken with a very good camera or professional lighting, but the spots on her were the same bright golden yellow as Woodstock, the bird associated with Snoopy. I know she had more rows of spots than 5 - there were 6, actually. I had always thought she was a cross between a Nile and an Ornate. She had an Ornate's markings on the tail. Niles have the ocelli running down the tail; she had the bands.
dragonfire
09-23-12, 09:25 AM
Re TV: Our PBS station is now running commercials. :+( They're not as egregious as the ones on public TV, but they're still ads.
infernalis
09-23-12, 09:38 AM
@Infernalis: Isis' cage was mutliple levels; you can see that in some of the pictures. The bottom level had a large soak bowl, and Care Fresh about 6" deep. She spent a lot of time in her soak bowl, only sometimes buried in the Care Fresh (usually at night), but when we were home, she preferred the top shelf where she could be with us when we were in the room. That piece of carpet had a kennel heater underneath it, and got her up to the high 90s on top - a bit more if she snuggled herself underneath.
She was also a free-roamer a lot of the time we were home, and we kept our house in around 80 for her. She had the option of being out and being in her cage, and she chose mostly to be out following me around the house. When she was out, she was mostly in the same room as I was - unless she wanted a big soak; then she'd climb up the stairs to the bathroom and climb into the tub and scratch at the spigot to let me know she wanted water. It made a racket you could hear all over the house.
As to the tongue color: the outer half was blue, and the back half was pink. The pictures don't show it - they weren't taken with a very good camera or professional lighting, but the spots on her were the same bright golden yellow as Woodstock, the bird associated with Snoopy. I know she had more rows of spots than 5 - there were 6, actually. I had always thought she was a cross between a Nile and an Ornate. She had an Ornate's markings on the tail. Niles have the ocelli running down the tail; she had the bands.
It's not about the temperatures at all.
The animal was breathing less than ideal air.
I will explain.. Please read carefully.
Since reptiles do not have pores, they do not sweat, since they pass Urates as a solid white chalky clump, they do not urinate.
So how exactly does slow dehydration take place?
By breathing dry air, that's how.
To put it in perspective, when we breath outside in the winter, we draw in dry winter air, and when we exhale, you can see your breath, this is because our lungs transfer water molecules to the dry air and we exhale moist air forming condensation, hence the "cloud" we see when we breath.
This same exact principal applies to Squamates (snakes and lizards). when we take an animal that has evolved over millions of years to breath damp tropical air and place it in a box that has low humidity, each and every breath the animal takes will release precious moisture into the air. Now since reptiles breath very slowly and each of those slow breaths only release minuscule amounts of body water, the process takes many months, sometimes years to bring the internal dehydration to critical levels.
This process in turn stresses the kidneys and liver eventually causing them to fail altogether, then the uric acid levels in the blood begin to rapidly escalate leading to Gout. By the time the symptoms of gout manifest and become visible, it's entirely too late to reverse it. (in virtually all cases, maybe with an odd exception)
This is where burrows come into play as a method of water conservation. If you have ever been in a dank basement you can feel the humidity in the air, it's thick. This is why the air in mines and deep basements is so heavy, suspended water molecules in the air add weight to it.
During the hottest parts of the day, droughts and dry seasons, Monitor lizards will retreat to the burrows, shady areas, hollow logs or swamps and not come back out until the conditions are more favorable.
When we keep them in boxes (Or roaming in rooms) that do not have correct humidity levels and also do not provide enough soil substrate for the animal to dig a burrow and retreat, they begin drying out slowly through respiration. (Technical term for breathing)
Misting a poorly set up cage will not prevent this, soaking the lizard in a bath tub will not prevent this, big water bowls do not prevent this, only correct humidity and offering the opportunity to burrow will prevent this. Proper caging is paramount to your lizard's heath, this cannot be stressed enough.
In conclusion, this is why keeping any monitor in conditions that do not support it's basic physiology needs will ultimately lead to failure.
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