Fire bellied toads as feeders.

[WhipPoorWill]

Hi everybody,
I recently acquired a young (I assume it's a hatchling) eastern hognose, and I was planning on switching him over to pinkies, but I've decided to stick to feeding him toads/frogs. Seeing as it may be rather difficult to catch wild toads in the winter, I was wondering if breeding firebellied toads for feeders would be a viable decision. Any comments/suggestions?

[GarterPython]

I am guessing they are not because on the wiki page for them it says they carry toxins

[Snickers]

I agree. Amphibians with bright colors are usually a warning that they posses and can secrete toxins. A couple of snakes have developed an immunity to the toxin, but hogs aren't 1 of them.

[WhipPoorWill]

Oh, I was under the impression that all toads were poisonous

[infernalis]

The only issue with feeding wild toads is the parasite loads.

Even though this chart depicts a frog, Toads lay their eggs in the same water, and their tadpoles co-exist with frog tadpoles, and the flukes don't care who the host is.

http://www.varanus.us/parasites/flatworm.jpg

[Gatorhunter1231]

Just because they are toad eaters does not mean they can eat any kind of toad. They do not eat fire-belly toads in the wild. They may not be able to handle fire-belly toad toxins. Somethings can eat toads but die in minutes if they eat a cane toad. I would research toxins either way.

[infernalis]

Just because they are toad eaters does not mean they can eat any kind of toad. They do not eat fire-belly toads in the wild. They may not be able to handle fire-belly toad toxins. Somethings can eat toads but die in minutes if they eat a cane toad. I would research toxins either way.


Many, many Goanna have fallen to the toad.

[WhipPoorWill]

Oh, okay. Sorry for the newbish question. I've never had a snake before.

[Gatorhunter1231]

Better to ask then not to ;)
Makes me want to look up the kinds of toxins fire-bellies have.

[StudentoReptile]

Remember folks, not all toads (or amphibians for that matter) are the same.

There are the common "terrestrial" toads that most of us are familiar with in the Bufo genus (southern, American, Fowlers, cane/marine toads, etc.): i.e. the dry, warty kind with the carotid glands behind the eyes.

Then you have the popular fire-bellied toads (genus Bombina). And there are other genera as well.

It is true that all are toxic in their own way, but not all toxins are the same. For instance, our American hognose snakes prey upon Bufo sp naturally all the time. But the toxic secretions of a fire-belly are completely different. So in agreement with everyone else, indeed you would NOT feed these to any snake.

I recently had a similar discussion on another forum when someone asked if Cuban treefrogs were okay to be eaten by turtles. It happens that the mucus on their skin is mildly toxic. Obviously, this is a little different than the toxins of say, a poison arrow frog which acquires the toxicity from its insect prey.

[DragonsEye]

In their native habitat, firebelly toads are preyed upon by predators that suffer no ill effects from their toxins. American hognoses, not being from that habitat, very well may not have any immunity to those same toxins. As others have said, I would not chance it.

Btw, side note of trivia here, scientifically there is no such thing as a toad ... they are all frogs. :)

[Gregg M]

Oh, okay. Sorry for the newbish question. I've never had a snake before.

For someone who never had a snake before, you sure did pick the wrong species to start with. They ae notorious for not being good captives and even the most experienced hognose keepers do not have an easy time with them.

If you want that animals to live, I would try to get it feeding on pinkies. Use a mashed up green tree frog to scent the pinkies. They are not easy to convert.
You have a hatchling so it will be easier to get it on rodents than it would be to get an adult on rodents.

On to the original question... No, firebelly toads would not be a suitable diet. If you are going to breed toads, why not just breed Woodhouse, Fowlers or American toads? They are actually far easier to breed than firebellies.

[WhipPoorWill]

Well, I didn't necessarily choose this species. My dad caught it, set up an aquarium, and gave it to me. So, I've decided to keep him.

On the subject of pinkies, I've read that they cause liver disease is this species. Is this true?

[jaleely]

Hogs are hard sometimes, but once you get them eating something they like, they are great. You can scent pinkies with frogs, or fish, or other things and offer it to the snake to see what he'll take.
I have one who only wants mice, and one who only wants fish *rolls eyes* lol

[Roadtrash]

I seem to remember that it likes fingers as well.

[Snickers]

Pinkies are high in fat, as long as you give your hog a varied diet he will be fine.

[jaleely]

buwahaha! mine does like fingers, when they smell like frog or fish....lol
our last photo session, i did catch him trying to take a nibble, but know that i know the signs i told him no and he minded : ) It's easy to do when they dont' strike but just open their mouths and nom.

[millertime89]

You should release it near where your dad caught it. You've got 2 things going against you here. The already finicky hognose species, and the fact that wild caught animals can be tough to get feeding in captivity. Do the snake a favor and put him back, then check out a reptile expo near you and find something a little easier to care for and is captive bred and born (CBB).

[Robyn@SYR]

Many Goanna have fallen to the toad.

Sounds like old Eastern philosophy.

And I don't mean Pennsylvania.

[Gregg M]

On the subject of pinkies, I've read that they cause liver disease is this species. Is this true?


That is 100% false. Fatty liver in eptiles is NOT caused by their diets. That is some old, outdated, crap information that some people actually believe to this day.

Fatty liver does not cause death. Reptiles have a fatty liver naturally.

Do not vary a hogs diet once you have it converted over to rodents. Rodents will be all they ever need to eat.

[jaleely]

Gregg...they will eat what they can, in the wild, right? But prefer hairless animals? I have heard that the hair from rodents can "ball" up and cause issues in their digestive tract. I haven't looked that up though and don't know any documentation for or against that. Would like to know what you know, though!

[StudentoReptile]

Gregg...they will eat what they can, in the wild, right? But prefer hairless animals? I have heard that the hair from rodents can "ball" up and cause issues in their digestive tract. I haven't looked that up though and don't know any documentation for or against that. Would like to know what you know, though!

I've heard the same thing said about feeding rats to monitors. I think its all part of that "old, outdated, crap information" Gregg was referring to.

[Gregg M]

Gregg...they will eat what they can, in the wild, right?
Yes, but our job in captivity if to provide better conditions than they see in the wild.

But prefer hairless animals? That depends on locality. In most parts of their range, amphibians make up a bit less than 40% of a western hogs diet.

I have heard that the hair from rodents can "ball" up and cause issues in their digestive tract. I haven't looked that up though and don't know any documentation for or against that. Would like to know what you know, though!

That is not true in the slightest. A hognose snakes digestive capabilities are no different than any other rodent eating snake. Their systems can easily take in rodent hair and pass it just like any other species. That is one of those things that is said but no one can come up with single account of it actually happening.

I think many of these "issues" with digestion, growth rate, and being over weight are the result of improper husbandry from years ago. Most people did not (and some still do not) know how to keep reptiles properly. This hobby has come a long way from even 10 years ago.

Now we know these animals need more than a 10 gallon fish tank and an 88 degree hot spot.

[Skumbo]

You should release it near where your dad caught it. You've got 2 things going against you here. The already finicky hognose species, and the fact that wild caught animals can be tough to get feeding in captivity. Do the snake a favor and put him back, then check out a reptile expo near you and find something a little easier to care for and is captive bred and born (CBB).

I second this.