Which to get? Veiled or Jackson

[Kingsnakechris]

So I'm debating on getting a chameleon but I need to get some real world info. The care sheets and what not on line really aren't trust worth, I really like the jacksons ( I dig the horns) but I was told I should start with a veiled?
Can anyone give me any information on these guys?


Thanks
Chris

[Snickers]

I don't own any chameleons but I hope to get some next year.

With that being said I've being doing a little online research here and there, and from what I gather Jacksons are better for a first timer because Veileds tend to be more aggressive and don't like to be handled.

[Kingsnakechris]

I don't own any chameleons but I hope to get some next year.

With that being said I've being doing a little online research here and there, and from what I gather Jacksons are better for a first timer because Veileds tend to be more aggressive and don't like to be handled.

I read that chameleons in general Dont like to be handled?

[UwabamiReptiles]

I had a few veiled about 6 years ago. For the most part the care for both should be the same if I remember correctly. Veileds are the ones usually said to be the best "starter" cham. But if you like the jacksons, then go with the jacksons. If you do a lot of research and setup an environment that is perfect for them, you will have no problems. Just lots of ventilation and humidity(spray once or twice a day). My veileds hated being held but like you said, I'm pretty sure that goes for all chams, they are pretty nervous animals to begin with.

[Kingsnakechris]

I had a few veiled about 6 years ago. For the most part the care for both should be the same if I remember correctly. Veileds are the ones usually said to be the best "starter" cham. But if you like the jacksons, then go with the jacksons. If you do a lot of research and setup an environment that is perfect for them, you will have no problems. Just lots of ventilation and humidity(spray once or twice a day). My veileds hated being held but like you said, I'm pretty sure that goes for all chams, they are pretty nervous animals to begin with.

Thank you for the info, and thanks for all the replys guys.

[Wildside]

I had two vield's that liked to be held and one that was downright evil. The evil one was female.

[Kingsnakechris]

I had two vield's that liked to be held and one that was downright evil. The evil one was female.

Yeah, looking around online and what I've gathered is that more often than not, chams don't like being held. As far as which type I want to get, I'm really leaning twords a male Jackson, I can't get over how cool their horns look! Also, chameleons require a good amount of effort so I'm going to have to set up a daily routine with either species, so I might as well get the one I want you know? Just gotta learn how to set up the perfect (or as close to perfect as possible) habitat for them.

[Wildside]

Yeah, looking around online and what I've gathered is that more often than not, chams don't like being held. As far as which type I want to get, I'm really leaning twords a male Jackson, I can't get over how cool their horns look! Also, chameleons require a good amount of effort so I'm going to have to set up a daily routine with either species, so I might as well get the one I want you know? Just gotta learn how to set up the perfect (or as close to perfect as possible) habitat for them.

That's right and seeing as how your are not new to reptiles and don't seem to be an idiot I think you'll do just fine :)

[Kingsnakechris]

That's right and seeing as how your are not new to reptiles and don't seem to be an idiot I think you'll do just fine :)

Thanks, I'm def. No expert on reptiles but I have been keeping them for some time. I like to think I'm not an idiot but I have my moments LOL

[Kingsnakechris]

I've decided on a Mt. Kenya Jackson's chameleon. They are the biggest of the jacksons and the most common. (at least what I've read). Now to find one! Also any ideas how to build a terrarium? I don't really want to spend hundreds of dollars on something I can build my self for a fraction of the price. Could I use regular screen? Anything I have to stay clear of? I know that glass is a big NO but is there anything else?

[simpleyork]

make a wood frame with 1/4 welded wire, or wire mesh to cover it (I like the 1/4 inch better because claws are less likely to get stuck when they do climb
Also building one lets you make any size you want

[Kingsnakechris]

make a wood frame with 1/4 welded wire, or wire mesh to cover it (I like the 1/4 inch better because claws are less likely to get stuck when they do climb
Also building one lets you make any size you want

Thank you. Now does the rule about too big of an enclosure causing stress hold true for chameleons as well? I'd like to make a fairly large enlosure but I know with snakes, to big is just as bad as to small.

[UwabamiReptiles]

I think with cage size, it would depend on how much open space it has. A big cage with a lot of open space will most likely stress out a cham. A decent size cage with a lot of plants and perches with cover would be better. Just remember they are shy and nervous and like to hide a lot. Most of their behavior is geared toward mimicking moving leaves in the wind. I wouldn't go too crazy on cage size but you could get away with an adult in a good size cage as long as there is plenty of cover for them.

Think too about what you will feed them and the size wire mesh you will use. If you use crickets make sure the cage is escape proof for the crickets. Crickets running loose in the house is something I don't miss one bit. Like Wildside said, you're not new to reptiles, I'm sure you'll come up with something awesome for the little guy.

[Kingsnakechris]

I think with cage size, it would depend on how much open space it has. A big cage with a lot of open space will most likely stress out a cham. A decent size cage with a lot of plants and perches with cover would be better. Just remember they are shy and nervous and like to hide a lot. Most of their behavior is geared toward mimicking moving leaves in the wind. I wouldn't go too crazy on cage size but you could get away with an adult in a good size cage as long as there is plenty of cover for them.

Think too about what you will feed them and the size wire mesh you will use. If you use crickets make sure the cage is escape proof for the crickets. Crickets running loose in the house is something I don't miss one bit. Like Wildside said, you're not new to reptiles, I'm sure you'll come up with something awesome for the little guy.


Yeah, raising leopard geckos and other MISC. lizards, crickets escaping was one of the first things I eradicated hahah, thank you for the intel. So If I make a cage I can get away with alot of space if I add ALOT of cover? My vision is a big enclosure with a bunch of plants, trees, branches etc. Etc. And a misting system on a timer. Anything else I should consider?

[UwabamiReptiles]

Yea that sounds good to me. I don't want to say clutter the cage, but I'd imagine getting pretty close wouldn't hurt. I just have vivid memories of my guys being stressed over the tiniest things. The plants(preferably live or a mix of live and fake) branches and whatnot will be good. A misting system will make life a lot easier. Too, if you're building your own cage, you could try to think of an easy way to clean the bottom of the cage. I remember always having to take everything out to do a substrate change(I used newspaper). I had big live plants in pots that sat on the bottom of the cage so I would have to remove them every cleaning which meant moving the cham every cleaning.

Maybe coming up with something to alleviate that situation would be easier for you in the long run. Just off the top of my head I'm thinking of a raised floor(2inches or so) and a pan in the bottom so you would just have to pull it out, clean it, and replace it. Like maybe hardware cloth on the bottom where the actual plant pots would sit on. Then all the soiled stuff would just fall through the hardware cloth to the pan. Kind of like a bird cage is set up.

Disclaimer: This is just something that popped into my head while typing this and remembering keeping chams myself. Maybe it will give you an idea for something else. Just try to think of every situation you can have and build a cage to make life easier for you and the chameleon(good choice with the jacksons too, those horns are BA).

[Kingsnakechris]

Yea that sounds good to me. I don't want to say clutter the cage, but I'd imagine getting pretty close wouldn't hurt. I just have vivid memories of my guys being stressed over the tiniest things. The plants(preferably live or a mix of live and fake) branches and whatnot will be good. A misting system will make life a lot easier. Too, if you're building your own cage, you could try to think of an easy way to clean the bottom of the cage. I remember always having to take everything out to do a substrate change(I used newspaper). I had big live plants in pots that sat on the bottom of the cage so I would have to remove them every cleaning which meant moving the cham every cleaning.

Maybe coming up with something to alleviate that situation would be easier for you in the long run. Just off the top of my head I'm thinking of a raised floor(2inches or so) and a pan in the bottom so you would just have to pull it out, clean it, and replace it. Like maybe hardware cloth on the bottom where the actual plant pots would sit on. Then all the soiled stuff would just fall through the hardware cloth to the pan. Kind of like a bird cage is set up.

Disclaimer: This is just something that popped into my head while typing this and remembering keeping chams myself. Maybe it will give you an idea for something else. Just try to think of every situation you can have and build a cage to make life easier for you and the chameleon(good choice with the jacksons too, those horns are BA).

Lol one of the first thoughts that popped into my head was cleaning techniques, I was DEF. Leaning towards the bird cage/bottom pan set up, that just seems to be the easiest way to go about it. Raised floor and a total cage clean out every now an again.

[UwabamiReptiles]

The raised floor would probably be the best way to go. When you start the build, you should do a step by step thread showing how you made everything. Sounds like you're going to have a pretty snazzy cham cage.

[GarterPython]

Ok first of all there are a lot of reasons I would go for a jackson. They just look awesome, they don't get as big as veileds so you can get a little bit of a smaller cage, jackson's are generally nicer as temperment goes, etc..... Secondly, I cannot stand when a chameleon post comes up and everybody starts going , they aren't good for handling..... they are perfectly fine for handling as much as other lizards. They can be a little bit more fragile and get stressed if you don't do it right. I was a member on the chameleon forum and many of the experienced owners said that if you handle them frequently when they are a baby and make sure that they are used to it then you will be fine. I know I am the only one that this bothers but it REALLY bugs me!

Also if anyone wants any help with chameleon care you can pm me because I was very interested about them for a long time and knew pretty much there is to know. I still know most of that stuff and could help you so please feel free.

[Kingsnakechris]

Ok first of all there are a lot of reasons I would go for a jackson. They just look awesome, they don't get as big as veileds so you can get a little bit of a smaller cage, jackson's are generally nicer as temperment goes, etc..... Secondly, I cannot stand when a chameleon post comes up and everybody starts going , they aren't good for handling..... they are perfectly fine for handling as much as other lizards. They can be a little bit more fragile and get stressed if you don't do it right. I was a member on the chameleon forum and many of the experienced owners said that if you handle them frequently when they are a baby and make sure that they are used to it then you will be fine. I know I am the only one that this bothers but it REALLY bugs me!

Hey garter!! It's been a while! I didn't know you were a Cham enthusiast! I'll keep this in mind, thank you for your input! I'll do my best to get my future Jackson handler friendly!

[Kingsnakechris]

The raised floor would probably be the best way to go. When you start the build, you should do a step by step thread showing how you made everything. Sounds like you're going to have a pretty snazzy cham cage.

It may take a month or so to get everything in order to actually get my CHAM, but as soon as the build starts I'll post pics and step by step's the entire time. Thank you again for all of your info, it's helped me make an educated decision on how to go about keeping a happy healthy jacksons.

[simpleyork]

I cup fed my veileds as they were almost free ranging

fixes the problem of the feeders getting away

[mark24]

I'm no expert but from what I've read you could make your own little ecosystem that way you don't have to worry about have to worry about cleaning

[Kingsnakechris]

That sounds nice, but that could take ALOT of time, I'll read up on how to do that though.

[Ryan1976]

Hey KingSnakeChris.... I'm new to this Forum, but I thought I would give a little of my "advice". I currently breed Veiled Chameleons. My best friend also raises Veiled AND Jackson's Chams. We bred his Male Veiled with my Female Veiled, and her eggs are actually hatching at this time.

As far as your choice to go with a Jackson's, that was probably a good idea. They basically have the same temperament as a Veiled Cham. There really isn't a huge difference, other than appearance. Both species are Solitary Reptiles. They should NEVER be housed with another Cham. They absolutely will fight to the death. As far as handling either Species.... I agree with the people that say you CAN handle them. If you get them when they are young, they WILL get used to it. And quite honestly, some of them will WANT to be held. If anyone disagrees with me, I will gladly send you videos of my Chams & my friend's Chams. However, they shouldn't be held by Children unless supervised by an adult. Remember, they are very delicate Reptiles. As far as "bad attitudes".... ALL Chams have bad attitudes from time-to-time. Most Chams will "gape & hiss"... which I'm sure you have already seen. However, most of them won't actually bite you. And if they do bite, it does not hurt. They don't really have a "bite-force". When my Female Veiled gapes & hisses at me, I let her bite me all the time. It seriously makes HER feel better & then she will let me pick her up. I did notice that someone stated that Jackson's Chams do NOT get as large as Veiled Chams.... that's not true. Male Jackson's can get very large!! My friend's Jackson's is about twice the size of my Veiled. Just an FYI.

I didn't notice if you said you got a Male or Female. If you have a Female, then you definitely made a better choice. I'm sure you have done research by now. But, one of the biggest differences between Female Veiled & Jackson's Chams.... is the Egg Laying!! Veiled Chams lay eggs, whether they have mated with a Male or not. They will continue to lay eggs periodically. You HAVE TO provide a place for them to lay eggs, or they will become egg-bound and die. That is why people that get Female Veiled Chams should be able to devote time to them.

On the other hand... Jackson's Chams give Live Birth!! Therefore, the Females are much easier to take care of in that respect. Once they have mated with a Male, and the babies have reached a certain "age", the mother will deposit each individual baby on a branch inside their habitat. The babies are deposited onto the branch in a small, sticky "bubble". It's a clear sac that they leave behind with the baby inside. Then the baby breaks free and begins it's life.

And just one more thing.... HABITATS!! There is no such thing as a habitat that is "TOO BIG" for a Chameleon!! The bigger, the better!! The more branches, limbs, plants, etc. that you can fit in there, the better!! Chams will always, always climb to the highest spot in their habitat.... until bedtime. Then they usually climb further down. But, do not believe anyone that says a habitat is too big for your Cham, please!! I have a 4 foot high habitat for my Veiled, and it's still not big enough for her. Whenever you read anything online, take it with a grain of salt. Even with what I'm saying. There really is NOT very much reliable info out there for raising any breed of Chameleons. Sometimes, it's all about experience, and trial & error. Sorry for the long post & all the info, just trying to help. Good luck to you and your Cham!!

[poison123]

ryan i do disagree with you on the part where you said some want to be held imo (and this gos for most herps) some will tolerate it more then others. Ive gotten my cham to walk on my hand but it was all just for food.

[Ryan1976]

You disagree with me when I say "Some want to be held".... And then YOU say "some will tolerate it".... That's basically the same thing I said. I didn't say "ALL". So, I'm unclear what you disagree with in my post. I have several Chams, and I know people that have several Chams, that actually do WANT to be held. If you open their habitats, they will head straight for your arm or shoulder... No Food Involved. I don't use food to make my animals do anything. So, you can disagree, but I'm basing my advice on Experience & Observation.

[poison123]

Dont get do jumpy ;) from what ive read on the cham forum you have just recently hatched out your "several" chams correct? or did you have several before the babies as well? And when a cham tolerates handling it is not the same as wanting to be handled. By tolerating it the are just putting up with it. I also have friends who keep chams and the ones that walk out onto them took time and food manipulation to do so. everything i say is all just my opinion im not passing it off as fact i may be wrong but until i see it for myself my opinion will stand.

[Ryan1976]

Yes, I do have postings on the Cham Forum. And I have no clue what you mean....

from what ive read on the cham forum you have just recently hatched out your "several" chams correct? or did you have several before the babies as well?

I do have several Chams. What you are reading is in regards to my first FEMALE Veiled Chameleon and her first Fertile Clutch. I'm not being "jumpy" at all. I was just commenting on your response. However, I don't appreciate you "questioning" my experience. You don't even know me. I can guarantee that I do have more experience with Chams than yourself.

I would also like to mention that at the end of my Post to KingSnakeChris, I advised him to take any advice he receives with a grain of salt... INCLUDING my own advice. I'm done arguing my views & opinions with you. My advice was intended for KingSnakeChris. Thank you for your input.

[poison123]

When i am talking to somebody about a living animal i will always question there experience. It helps me sleep at night try not to get offended by it ;) and how do you know you have more experience then me do you even know of my experience? Im not saying you dont have more experience but before you claim to know more then some learn about there experience first.And i didnt consider this an argument i thought it was a fun and mature conversation but i guess some people just dont like to be questioned :/