My new king, Pretzel

[Tango]

I adopted a new 3' king snake from a local animal shelter last week. LOVE this snake!!!

From what the guy at the shelter said, he had been neglected and living in a plastic shoe box size container. However he was kept, he is in really good shape.

Well, when I first went to the shelter to get him, they had him in a 15 gallon habitat that was pieced together with whatever they had available to them. For example, his hide was two small half logs and a ceramic water dish that were kind of stacked together to make a hide to accommodate his size. As I disassembled the contraption to have a look at him, I could see that look in his eyes. He was ready for a new visitor!

Despite the cage aggression, he is a GREAT snake. I distract him from the front and pick him up him from behind to get him out, and I haven't been bitten yet. Once he's out, he tries to crawl up my sleeves and is a real sweetie.

However, when someone walks past his cage, he flies out of his hide with his mouth open. Is this a behavior that will change over time now that he is in a proper habitat with regular feedings and frequent handlings? It's not something that bothers me, but it may be intimidating to certain friends.

[Jlassiter]

What kind of "king" is it?

[Tango]

California King:

[Kettennatter]

Sounds like normal and healthy CA king behavior to me. Mine also rushes out of his hide, but he wants to feed. (It makes for easy 15 sec. feeding sessions.) It takes him about a minute to get out of feeding mode, otherwise.

A CA king can be oddly intimidating, not only because they are the larger kings, but they are often feisty and may move very quickly.

Just out of curiosity: Have you fed him yet?

[Tango]

Just out of curiosity: Have you fed him yet?
Yes. Over the weekend, I gave him a f/t adult mouse.

It's so good to know that they can be feisty and that he's normal. I read so much that said they are ideal for beginners because they hardly ever bite, and they are such calm and docile snakes. Not Pretzel!

He is so great to watch and interact with. What a fantastic addition to my home.

Thank you for comments, Kettennatter.

[Kingsnakechris]

Yes. Over the weekend, I gave him a f/t adult mouse.

It's so good to know that they can be feisty and that he's normal. I read so much that said they are ideal for beginners because they hardly ever bite, and they are such calm and docile snakes. Not Pretzel!

He is so great to watch and interact with. What a fantastic addition to my home.

Thank you for comments, Kettennatter.

I have a pair of california kings, and from experience with other kings, they are NOT the friendly cuddly snake the Internet claims lol. My male Is HUGE and I've tried everything I could to tame him down but he still loves tasting my hand or any other part he can reach... My female is a "musk" machine. I've had ONE kingsnake that was ok attitude wise, but he was an old man and was held very very often... I'd say you new buddy is perfectly normal. Is he brown with yellowish bands or black n white? Hard to see the pic on the cell phone lol but my male is brown n yellow, NASTY ATTITUDE...

[Tango]

Is he brown with yellowish bands or black n white?

Brown and yellow.

Yeah, everyone at the shelter that interacted with him had been bit. I've been lucky so far, but I'm sure I'll get it eventually.

LOL - I dont know why I google things. Forums are a much better source of info. THANK YOU! :D

[Kettennatter]

Don't worry about getting bitten. The last time I got bit by a new king snake it didn't hurt enough to stop handling him. Overall I got bit by kings maybe 3-4 times.

They are not "cuddly" in the sense that they are very calm. But they are playful, and I cannot count the times they made me laugh.

Give him some time to get used to you and establish handling and feeding patterns, and you may be just fine.

[Jlassiter]

Yep..normal
Feed him when he's hungry and give him plenty of choices and he will be fine...

If you must handle him do so before feedings.

[Kingsnakechris]

Don't worry about getting bitten. The last time I got bit by a new king snake it didn't hurt enough to stop handling him. Overall I got bit by kings maybe 3-4 times.

They are not "cuddly" in the sense that they are very calm. But they are playful, and I cannot count the times they made me laugh.

Give him some time to get used to you and establish handling and feeding patterns, and you may be just fine.

DEF. Good advice, he just needs time, California kings are goof balls once they make themselves at home. And getting bit by them really doesn't hurt. It's more of a shock than anything else "Oh $h!t" I just got bit!!" after the first few times it's nothing, you'll actually start waiting for him to let go and finish biting you at HIS leisure LOL. Have you ever been musked on?

[Tango]

Have you ever been musked on?

Oh gosh, no. I dont even know what that is, but it sounds like something that I'd definately know if it happened!!!

*googles* Er, I mean... *searches forum* :o

[Kingsnakechris]

Oh gosh, no. I dont even know what that is, but it sounds like something that I'd definately know if it happened!!!

*googles* Er, I mean... *searches forum* :o

Haha yes you would know! It's a defense tactic they deploy very often lol it's a very very nasty smell and it gets all over you! They "spray" you with it. in my experience it's mostly the females but thats just what I've seen, males do it as well but it takes a little more to get them nervous enough ( not like that's a bad thing LOL) but it's a very distinct stink.. They USUALLY grow out of it with frequent handling but my female gets "moody" sometimes and let's me know it LOL

[Kettennatter]

I have two males, and I have yet to experience musking. When I had to clean a nasty enclosure while one was in shed I just saw tail rattling for the first time.

IHMO you are far more likely to get pooped on.

[Tango]

Haha yes you would know! It's a defense tactic they deploy very often lol it's a very very nasty smell and it gets all over you! They "spray" you with it. in my experience it's mostly the females but thats just what I've seen, males do it as well but it takes a little more to get them nervous enough ( not like that's a bad thing LOL) but it's a very distinct stink.. They USUALLY grow out of it with frequent handling but my female gets "moody" sometimes and let's me know it LOL

Yep, that's what I was thinking it was. LOL! I'll be prepared, and I'm actually thinking I'd prefer the bite!

Well, I dont know if mine is male or female. I dont ever intend to breed, so I dont care really. I get him out every day and so far, he's lunged at me through the glass, hissed and did the tail rattle. He has never struck at me, either.

The shelter told me the previous owner said he is eight-years-old. I dont know if that is true.

[Kingsnakechris]

I have two males, and I have yet to experience musking. When I had to clean a nasty enclosure while one was in shed I just saw tail rattling for the first time.

IHMO you are far more likely to get pooped on.

Every kingsnake I have ever owned rattled their tail. It's funny to see my male do it just because of his size, He's so big, his tail doesn't go that fast but he tries!! Lol

[Tango]

I have two males, and I have yet to experience musking. When I had to clean a nasty enclosure while one was in shed I just saw tail rattling for the first time.

IHMO you are far more likely to get pooped on.

Well, that's good to hear!

LOL - my corn poops on me all the time. I think he saves it up as a present.

[Kingsnakechris]

Yep, that's what I was thinking it was. LOL! I'll be prepared, and I'm actually thinking I'd prefer the bite!

Well, I dont know if mine is male or female. I dont ever intend to breed, so I dont care really. I get him out every day and so far, he's lunged at me through the glass, hissed and did the tail rattle. He has never struck at me, either.

The shelter told me the previous owner said he is eight-years-old. I dont know if that is true.

He seems a bit small to be 8. My female is 2 1/2 years old and she's pushing 4 ft. Or so, she's thin but healthy. My male just turned 4 years old and he's a fatty, he outgrew mice and I have to get him small adult rats. He's pushing 5 ft. And his temper is pushing 20 ft LOL

[Kettennatter]

Yep, that's what I was thinking it was. LOL! I'll be prepared, and I'm actually thinking I'd prefer the bite!

Well, I dont know if mine is male or female. I dont ever intend to breed, so I dont care really. I get him out every day and so far, he's lunged at me through the glass, hissed and did the tail rattle. He has never struck at me, either.

The shelter told me the previous owner said he is eight-years-old. I dont know if that is true.

Three feet seems small for and adult king. I would expect around 4' and up. But it is possible, king snakes show a lot of variation. Mine (yumensis) has to be pushing 5' and he still seems to be growing. Oddly enough I've never heard him hiss. He only has a very strong feeding response.

[Tango]

He seems a bit small to be 8.

They told me that it was because he was kept in a small enclosure, but that isn't true for snakes, right?

It was a dog and cat shelter, so I'm just happy they helped the snake. I completely understand that their knowledge wouldn't be at the level it is here.

[Kingsnakechris]

They told me that it was because he was kept in a small enclosure, but that isn't true for snakes, right?

It was a dog and cat shelter, so I'm just happy they helped the snake. I completely understand that their knowledge wouldn't be at the level it is here.

Yes, at least they took him in, as far as growing in relation to enclosure size I'm not sure. I have never kept one in an enclosure that was to small lol.

[Kettennatter]

Every kingsnake I have ever owned rattled their tail. It's funny to see my male do it just because of his size, He's so big, his tail doesn't go that fast but he tries!! Lol

I misses out on the hissing and the musking. Lol My other king (Greeri) is actually calmer than my corns, and I just got him.

[Kettennatter]

Yes, at least they took him in, as far as growing in relation to enclosure size I'm not sure. I have never kept one in an enclosure that was to small lol.

It is my understanding that the caloric intake determines the size more than the enclosure. Something that Jlassiter would know for sure.

[Kingsnakechris]

I misses out on the hissing and the musking. Lol My other king (Greeri) is actually calmer than my corns, and I just got him.

I've had ONE corn. Mean mean mean! I didn't think corns had a nasty attitude but that's a perfect example of snakes not all being the same regardless of species lol

[Tango]

give him plenty of choices

Like both mice and small rats in a rotation?

[Kingsnakechris]

It is my understanding that the caloric intake determines the size more than the enclosure. Something that Jlassiter would know for sure.

Yeah, Ive read about that but I haven't really put to much thought into it lol. My snakes are all growing nicely and they have room to spare in their tubs. I use the clear tubs and UTH's. Very inexpensive, easy to modify them, and very quick cleaning. They are also very spacious and for the price you can't go wrong!

[Kingsnakechris]

Like both mice and small rats in a rotation?

He may be a little small for small rats just yet, some never get big enough for them, I usually see them get big enough to eat big adult mice but that's about it. My male is the first one I've had thats big enough to eat rats. I'm going to start incorporating chicks to his diet soon, You can always try feeding him feeder lizards and what not, if he takes to them.

[Jlassiter]

Like both mice and small rats in a rotation?

No....mice all the time is fine.

Choices are humidity and temperature gradients, many places to hide (Deep Aspen).

Never force it to be at one temp or one humidity level.....
Provide him choices and he will choose where to be when he needs to....

[Jlassiter]

It is my understanding that the caloric intake determines the size more than the enclosure. Something that Jlassiter would know for sure.

You are correct.....Caloric intake and husbandry techniques.
They will outgrow an enclosure....unlike goldfish.....lol

[Kettennatter]

He may be a little small for small rats just yet, some never get big enough for them, I usually see them get big enough to eat big adult mice but that's about it. My male is the first one I've had thats big enough to eat rats. I'm going to start incorporating chicks to his diet soon, You can always try feeding him feeder lizards and what not, if he takes to them.

My male also started on mice. I realized that he was ready when he would inhale a mouse in under a minute and seemed to be ready for more, stopping after three of them. He seemed noticeably more mellow after switching him to rats.

As long as Pretzel eats mice, he should be good to go at this stage.

[Kingsnakechris]

My male also started on mice. I realized that he was ready when he would inhale a mouse in under a minute and seemed to be ready for more, stopping after three of them. He seemed noticeably more mellow after switching him to rats.

As long as Pretzel eats mice, he should be good to go at this stage.

Yeah, he started on mice but he will not under any circumstances eat F/T or fresh killed...he only eats live period. Well, he was starting to "pop" the mice when he constricted them so I figured (on top of hue big he was getting) it may be time to take the prey item up a few sizes. He loves the rats, he gets very exited when he's about to get it, I love it when he gets perfectly lined up and holds absolutely still and gives that stare right before the strike... Very cool to see him in feeding mode. I'd prefer F/T (less risk) but he won't touch em.

[Kettennatter]

Yeah, he started on mice but he will not under any circumstances eat F/T or fresh killed...he only eats live period. Well, he was starting to "pop" the mice when he constricted them so I figured (on top of hue big he was getting) it may be time to take the prey item up a few sizes. He loves the rats, he gets very exited when he's about to get it, I love it when he gets perfectly lined up and holds absolutely still and gives that stare right before the strike... Very cool to see him in feeding mode. I'd prefer F/T (less risk) but he won't touch em.

The breeder fed my yumensis live mice, and it took me forever to turn him on f/t. At one point he constricted my lower arm, looking for a place to strike. Once he was that hungry I used tongs to animate a warmed f/t, and he finally took it. Even since then he is the easiest snake to feed. My greeri fell more easily for the same trick.

F/t is not only less risk, it's so much more convenient and cheaper, at least from my point of view.

[Kingsnakechris]

F/t is not only less risk, it's so much more convenient and cheaper, at least from my point of view.

agreed. My female will take fresh killed but even with tongs she won't touch F/t. I would rather go F/t but neither of them ate for a few months. Ohhh well tho, sometimes you just can't get a comprise from your snakes lol

[Tango]

I'm so glad my snakes all take f/t. I used to keep white mice as pets until they died off, and I dont know if I could do it. I know it's the circle of life, but ugh!!!

[Tango]

As long as Pretzel eats mice, he should be good to go at this stage.

Thanks. Yeah, I always have adult mice on hand for my ball python so I figured I'd try that. It will be nice to have two snakes that take the same size.

[Kingsnakechris]

I'm so glad my snakes all take f/t. I used to keep white mice as pets until they died off, and I dont know if I could do it. I know it's the circle of life, but ugh!!!

Be very thankful for that lol, and your right, it is the circle of life but it's safer to feed F/t and eliminate the risk of bite wounds and what not. Apparently it's cheaper too lol

[Blaze Mcsmith]

congrats -im not lucky enough to find something like that
every time i go to a shelter they never have snakes maybe a lizard or two but their usually spoken for anyways.

[Kingsnakechris]

congrats -im not lucky enough to find something like that
every time i go to a shelter they never have snakes maybe a lizard or two but their usually spoken for anyways.

Use google to search the different shelters in your zip code and call a few of them (if you haven't already) sometimes you gotta drive a little bit but it's totally worth it when you adopt a snake in need of rescue :)

[Blaze Mcsmith]

I'l give it a try thanks.
hey do you have any mountain kings?

[Kingsnakechris]

I dont, im looking to get some but live in az and its illegal to own az mountain kings so those are out.

[Jlassiter]

I dont, im looking to get some but live in az and its illegal to own az mountain kings so those are out.
Then get California Mt. Kings....L. zonata

[Tango]

Use google to search the different shelters in your zip code and call a few of them (if you haven't already) sometimes you gotta drive a little bit but it's totally worth it when you adopt a snake in need of rescue :)

Also Pet adoption: Want a dog or cat? Adopt a pet on Petfinder (http://www.petfinder.com).

Search terms "scales, fins and other".

[Kingsnakechris]

Then get California Mt. Kings....L. zonata

Yeah, I'm getting a few different animals soon, a few more paydays and ill start building my list of reptiles lol

[Tango]

No....mice all the time is fine.

Choices are humidity and temperature gradients, many places to hide (Deep Aspen).

Never force it to be at one temp or one humidity level.....
Provide him choices and he will choose where to be when he needs to....

Well, after realizing my setup from care sheets I read was wrong, I took your advice. I put Pretzel in another container and redecorated his whole enclosure. One end has very deep aspen and I tapered off the aspen on the other end where his water bowl is.

After he was returned to his enclosure, I tossed in a F/T adult mouse, which he ate for the first time in front of me rather than dragging it into his hide to eat. Then he borrowed into his substrate and went all over the enclosure - in and out of the aspen. He finally settled in a new favorite spot, never to be seen again.

I'm super, super, super appreciative for the enclosure advice, Jlassiter. He is obviously a happier snake now. And, I have that pic I took to remember what he looks like. ;)

[jaleely]

he's cute! good job on getting him!
and i so prefer bites to musking most of the time lol

try to feed him the biggest food it looks like he can eat, and you will be golden. i love his name, too!

[Blaze Mcsmith]

I dont, im looking to get some but live in az and its illegal to own az mountain kings so those are out.

that sucks! i find more adds for az mountains though.

[Blaze Mcsmith]

Then get California Mt. Kings....L. zonata

where can you get those from-they seem a hell of a lot harder to get than az mountain kings?

[Jlassiter]

where can you get those from-they seem a hell of a lot harder to get than az mountain kings?

They are harder to find and more expensive.....

Home - Magnum Opus Zonata (http://www.jerrykruse.webs.com/)

[Kingsnakechris]

Thanks. Yeah, I always have adult mice on hand for my ball python so I figured I'd try that. It will be nice to have two snakes that take the same size.
Your BP will soon outgrow mice tho, lol. Do you have breeder mice??

[Tango]

Your BP will soon outgrow mice tho, lol. Do you have breeder mice??

I get F/T at the reptile show.

[Kingsnakechris]

Nice, yeah thats the best way to do it

[Blaze Mcsmith]

They are harder to find and more expensive.....

Home - Magnum Opus Zonata (http://www.jerrykruse.webs.com/)

magnum opus zonata -every time i went there there was nothing new
and everything listed was a year older if not more.:pissedoff:

[Jlassiter]

magnum opus zonata -every time i went there there was nothing new
and everything listed was a year older if not more.:pissedoff:

Time to get on the waiting list then.....lol

[Blaze Mcsmith]

Time to get on the waiting list then.....lol

didnt know there was one! is it on the site?

[Jlassiter]

didnt know there was one! is it on the site?


Use the contact on the site and tell Jerry that you want to get on the list for next year. Tell him I sent you.

[Blaze Mcsmith]

cool man -thanks a lot!

[Jlassiter]

I think we should apologize to Tango for hijacking her Pretzel King thread.....
Sorry.

[Tango]

I think we should apologize to Tango for hijacking her Pretzel King thread.....
Sorry.
LOL! I dont mind! :)

[Blaze Mcsmith]

I think we should apologize to Tango for hijacking her Pretzel King thread.....
Sorry.

yeah your right -sorry tango
hows pretzel?

[Tango]

yeah your right -sorry tango
hows pretzel?

No worries! The thread had run its course anyway. :P

Well, I took Pretzel outside yesterday to try to get a pic of his 'ittle, 'ittle face. My current phone takes horrible indoor pictures (the outdoor ones aren't so great either). Anyhow, Pretzel was in good spirits. We were outside for fifteen minutes or so until he finally swung around and struck at me. Oh, Pretzel. :rolleyes: He still hasn't got me, though!!!

[Kingsnakechris]

Very cool. He looks just like my male lol I like the brown n yellows a lot.

[Blaze Mcsmith]

well glad your doing well with em
next week hopefully i'll be able to post a pic of my new snake when i get her

[Kingsnakechris]

has his attitude improved any??

[Tango]

has his attitude improved any??
Oh HECK no. Chris, this is the most fun I've had with a snake though! Love the element of surprise!

[TheBoogieDown]

Oh HECK no. Chris, this is the most fun I've had with a snake though! Love the element of surprise!

Oh me too... Which is exactly what I get every time I open my roommates snakes cage (Mexican Black King)... that sucker goes from hidden in substrate to out and investigating in 2 seconds when he hears that lid coming off.

[Kingsnakechris]

Gotta love it. The element of surprise is always fun untill he gets a good hold and wraps you up lol my kings really tamed down tho, a few bites and a little determination and their all good lol

[Snakeman8]

ever been musked by a garter? its terrible! the smell is horrible.

[Kingsnakechris]

Cant say i have.. but musk in general is FOUL...

[Kaetlinv]

I've been musked by a garter. Thankfully the musk landed on the ground, not on my biking gloves. >.>