Getting Ackies Need Advise and Suggestions

[Aanayab1]

Sorry but this first post will be wordy, I promise to keep it as concise as possible.

I have decided to get a trio of Ackies... So let the learning truly begin.
Few things I need to put out there before beginning this.
I take constructive criticism very well. I also take every bit of help offered and research it so I can come to an informed/slightly educated decision of my own, I will of course, post the decision I come to and see if I have learned the point the helper was trying to get across(I may also include questions to better understand what the poster meant). Actual experience with the species at hand, be it good or bad will help me learn greatly.

Before starting this thread I read the monitor enclosure in this section... unfortunately not much useful information was retained do to confusion caused by all the bickering between the posts, but I think I got the important points. I got out of it; deep substrate, large cage a must, babies can be either housed in the full adult cage or a temporarily housed in smaller cages as long as the adult cage is truly built and not just a mythical object. Humidity and all three types of temperature are detrimental to the health of my animals.

Here are my plans as of now. I will be going with their permanent home.

I will be using the tub style monitor setup that ProExotics uses with some modification. You can see pictures of them on the web site in their photo gallery.

The dimensions will be 4'x2'x4' (if someone has had long term success with something else please chime in).

It will have 18- 20" of substrate (Still researching mixes and looking for what works well at that depth).

I will be insulating the bottom of the cage as I saw infernalis has done on his cage. Still debating doing the sides and top as well...

I will be incorporating a drainage and closed loop circulation system for 4-6" of water I plan to keep at the bottom of the cage... The Idea behind this stems from my experience keeping dart frogs with this type system.
If I keep water at the bottom in some LECA balls the water will wick its way up into the bottom of the soil without over soaking it. It will keep the humidity more stable(in theory) just as in a frog tank. The point behind it is keeping the water that settles from going stagnant via aeration and circulation, it keeps air even at the bottom of the soil so there is no way for the decomposing poo/urine/food scraps to go anaerobic. I will be able to drain the water to remove the nitrates, ammonia and nitrites and add fresh water. This way once a week I will be able to simulate rain fall, drain off the excess and keep the water at a constant depth. The purpose of the rain fall simulation is to rinse the soil without having to disturb the tunnels/burrows. I will explain more later(if asked) and provide drawings to help better explain.

I apologize for being so lengthy. Please chime in with any and all thoughts.

Antonio

[Gatorhunter1231]

Its late here so I will give you a better reply tomorrow with pics.
120-150f basking temps (surface temp), use halogen flood lights
I had success with 13-18in of sandy dirt with adults. babies only need about 6in.
baby ackies are tiny and I would suggest using temporary cages as they grow.
They do well on crickets and roaches.
Cage size sounds good
Dustin

[Aanayab1]

Gatorhunter: Thank you for your reply and pointers. I'm looking forward to the more detailed post as well.

I have decided to not do the drainage and closed loop system on this setup due to my lack of experience with monitors and go with what is proven to work. I will instead build a second cage with the closed loop system. I will not house anything in the cage and simply use it test/experiment with the idea. If it works like I think I will, I will then come to a decision if it is usable with monitors.

[Gatorhunter1231]

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/reptiles/100_0096.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/reptiles/100_0097.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/reptiles/tristis-ackie.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/IMG_0796.jpg
I don't seem to have any good pics of my adults setup which is a bummer. I had a big fire about 2 months ago and lost everything but my female ackie so my current cage is nothing to look at for now. I do have pics of my varanus tristis tristis cage which my ackie cage was similiar to other then I gave my ackies a foam wall to climb and my ackie cage was only 4ft high instead of 6ft.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/DSC00294.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/DSC00295.jpg

[Aanayab1]

This helps tremendasly!!! Thank you Gatorhunter1231.

I hope other owners chime in as well.

Antonio

[varanus_mad]

Captive husbandry of Varanus acanthurus, aka The Ackie.

Ackies are a member of the monitor family (varanus) and are classed as a dwarf monitor (odatria).
They rarely exceed 24 inches in length and make good and rewarding captives if provided with good husbandry during their lives. I would like to address what constitutes good husbandry here, and would like this to become a place to discuss our experiences and success with these amazing lizards as they seem to be growing in popularity recently. I must stress that I am not a fan of care sheets and that here I am merely trying to point people in the right direction.

Enclosure
I feel the minimum size enclosure for a single, or group of ackies is a 5x3x2. They are active lizards and appreciate a decent sized enclosure. The 3 feet of height is recommended as you need to provide at least a foot of substrate. Ackies like to burrow and will also nest in deep substrate. The enclosure can be made from wood but it is important to reinforce the bottom plinth section as a deep substrate puts a lot of pressure on the sides of the enclosure and the reinforcement is needed to prevent the wood from bowing and warping under such pressure.
It is also very important to seal the inside of the enclosure to protect the wood from the damp substrate and high humidity levels from within. I have used melamine in the past and have not had a single enclosure last more than 18 months before taking on water and blowing out. I have found plywood to be much better when coated with something like yacht varnish (minimum of 7 coats), a 2 part epoxy resin such as garage floor paint or a boat builder’s epoxy and I know people who have had success with blagdons V8 pond sealer.
Heating
Before going into how to heat the enclosure I’ll take a look at how ackies use temperatures and what they need to be successful.
Ackies, like all monitors require very high basking temperatures to be able to metabolise properly. A good basking site should have a minimum surface temperature of 135F. Personally I have used temperatures of up to 160F but slightly lower is recommended, especially to newcomers to monitors. It is important to recognise the difference between surface temperatures and ambient temperatures. Ambients are the temperature of the surrounding air, and surface temperatures are the temp of the actual objects surface. When an ackie basks it flattens and spreads its whole body on the basking site to soak up as much heat as possible. Therefore it is these surface temperatures that are important to us. A lot more important than the ambient temps. So it is essential to be able to accurately take readings of these surface temps and the best thing to do this with is an infra-red temperature gun. This is the single most important piece of equipment that a monitor keeper can own. They are quite cheap and readily available from ebay or maplins electronics stores. I don’t use any thermometers in my enclosures, however I take readings from my temp gun daily.

The best type of bulbs to use for the basking site are par38 halogen floodlights. These create a really wide beam of light which is important as the basking spot should at the very minimum be the SVL of the ackie. Ideally you are aiming for the total length of the monitor, and it is usually necessary to use 2 smaller wattage bulbs side by side rather than one higher wattage bulb. I should state that these bulbs are not run on a thermostat so you must choose wattages that will not overheat the enclosure. The best way to make fine adjustments to the basking site temperatures is by using a porcelain bulb holder hung by a chain from the top of the enclosure. You can then lower or raise the bulb to the basking site until you reach your desired temperatures.
There must be a gradient of temperatures within the enclosure and again I use the infra-red temperature gun to take readings, although thermometers are sufficient for this purpose. What you are aiming for in any monitor enclosure is a good range. You need to be able to offer the ackie multiple choices of temperatures so it can pick one to suit it’s needs. Ambient temps between 95F and 75F are ideal. While on the subject of choices, an ideal basking site for ackies is a “Retes Stack”. This is a stack of plywood boards or slate tiles that offer many layers of tight spaces under the basking spot. Each layer on the stack gets cooler the further away from basking lamp and this gives the ackies choices of many different temperatures to bask at.
Additional heating can be provided by a ceramic heat bulb or ceramic tube via a pulse stat. I do not use any additional heating as I keep my basking lights on 24/7 and choose bulbs that maintain the desired temperatures throughout the enclosure. I’ll discuss the advantages of 24/7 basking further on.
Lighting and UV
Lighting the enclosure can be done via fluorescent tubes or compact fluorescent bulbs. I have used both and prefer the tubes as they are less bulky and give a better spread of light. I have recently switched over to the new T5 type tubes which have a much higher light output for the same wattage than the conventional T8 tubes. Ambient lighting is provided via a 16/8 day/night cycle.
I do not use any form of UV in my enclosures. Monitors simply do not need it to thrive. I have raised babies I have hatched to healthy egg laying adults without it. I have maintained older reproducing adults without it. There are some minor benefits to using UV such as it increasing the colours of your ackies and enabling them to see a greater range of colours but they do not require it for a healthy life. I know this is a heated topic and I am not recommending you to not add it to your enclosure. The choice is yours but they will do fine with or without it.
Deep Substrate
A deep substrate is an absolute must for ackies. They are a burrowing species and enjoy a minimum of a foot of substrate to create their burrows and tunnels in. Females will also nest their eggs in the substrate. A mix of sterilised topsoil and playsand can work well as can a sandy loam type dirt if you can find anywhere to go dig it up. Ackies come from areas that contain a Xeric soil. That is a soil that contains little to no decaying plant matter. Whatever substrate you use, you must dampen it down enough so that it will form a burrow well without collapsing.

Humidity
Another advantage of deep substrate is it holds a good humidity in the enclosure without the need to regularly mist. I never mist my ackies enclosures and just simply add water to the dirt if it looks like it is drying out. It is important to keep a relatively high humidity in the enclosure and I do not use vents at all in any of mine. I simply do not see the point of going to all the trouble of heating and humidifying the cage just to let it all out again. The gap between the glass along with the daily opening of the doors for maintenance is more than adequate for fresh air exchange. I also do not use hygrometers. As long as I can feel the heat and humidity hit me in the face when I open the doors then I’m happy. Kind of like when you step off a plane into a hot tropical country and the heat and humidity is almost overwhelming.
Diet
Ackies have voracious appetites and will consume a wide variety of prey. A diet made mostly of invertebrates is recommended, with crickets, locusts and cockroaches all making a good staple feeder item. Ackies eat a lot and it is well worth maintaining a cockroach colony to save on feeding costs. Mice can be given once a week as can chopped up day old chicks. I am personally not a fan of supplementing the diet with items such as egg or turkey mince. I feel it is important that every meal should consist of whole prey food items. That way the monitor gets a good range and ratio of nutrients. In the wild ackies will always consume whole prey apart from the odd chances they get to feed on carrion. Whole prey contains a range of nutrients, amino acids, soluble and insoluble fibers that are present in a ratio that the lizards have evolved to digest and thrive upon. In single item foods such as turkey mince that range is substantially less and the bioavailability of the nutrients offered is reduced. For those reasons I feel whole prey is superior and I believe it should be given for every feed.
I feed my ackies as much as they can eat every day. A few smaller feedings several times a day is much better than one large daily feeding. With good temperatures and humidity your ackies will not get fat. Hatchlings and juveniles will put all energy into growth, and sexually mature monitors will put all energy into reproduction. Please bear in mind that I am a breeder, and if I were keeping a solitary animal as a pet then such a high feeding regime would not be needed and a feed every two days would probably suffice although I must admit I have never kept a lone ackie.
2 days a week I add Nutrobal to their feedings with all the other feedings dusted in 100% pure calcium carbonate.
Ackies rarely drink but a small water bowl with fresh water changed daily should be present in the enclosure at all times.

[varanus_mad]

Breeding
Breeding ackies is relatively straightforward providing your husbandry is at a good enough level to support sexually reproductive individuals. Obviously to stand a chance at breeding you need animals of either sex. The best way to do this is by raising up a group of hatchlings together. This way the monitors are used to one another and can form quite strong bonds with one another. Mixing and matching adults together is hit and miss at best, and the results experienced are not even comparable to adults that have been reared together.

Sexing
Ackies start to develop secondary sexual characteristics when they are around 5 months old if supported well by good husbandry. That’s around 12 inches total length. Males have a broader head, neck and shoulders to females as well as more muscular front limbs. Their feet are also a lot larger in proportion to females. The dorsal patterning on males is usually a lot more defined and pronounced. Males also have a thicker tail base and the spurs located either side of the vent are hard to the touch and larger than a females which will feel quite soft in comparison. Males are also a lot more bold and will be out and roaming the enclosure a lot more frequently than females who tend to hide a lot more. It must be said that the only 100% accurate way of determining a female is by having one lay eggs for you. Dominant males are easy to tell but less dominant males can take on a female appearance. Sexing monitors is tricky at best, especially females.
Cycling
Providing that you give your ackies enough food and heat then it is inevitable that the females will cycle and produce eggs. Females will build up fat reserves mainly around the base of the tail and the tail itself. If a female has adequate reserves of fat then she begins a process called vitellogenesis. This is when the female uses her fat reserves to produce yolk in her ovum (undeveloped eggs). When this occurs the female will noticeably swell around the abdomen. Females can and will undergo this cycling regardless of the presence of a male. If a male is present then they will be fertilised, if not she will have non viable ova but she must still be given the opportunity to lay them like viable eggs because if she reabsorbs them it can be hazardous to her health. This is why I feel that female ackies do not make great pets if kept alone. It is far better to keep a single male ackie.
Copulation
Once a female has swollen up with unfertilised eggs she will emit pheromones to signal to any males present that she is ready to have her eggs fertilised. This is when true copulation is witnessed. True copulation (also called mating or locking up) is a rather gentle affair. I have never witnessed any biting and it starts with the male following the female all around the enclosure. He will take particular interest in her sides and the base of her tail, often stopping to nudge and tongue flick these areas. The male will also make jerky, almost robotic side to side head movements. Eventually the female will allow the male to lay beside her and the male will use his hind feet to gently scratch her tail base in an attempt to persuade her to lift her tail and allow him to insert one of his hemipenes. Once they are locked up they can remain so for hours at a time, often falling asleep together in the position. Such mating will occur regularly for between 2 and 5 days while the female is still producing pheromones. She will then stop producing these and copulation will cease.
True copulation as has just been described is not to be confused with “mock mating” which is a dominance thing. “Mock mating” can occur between any sexes. Males will mate males, females will mate males and all the options in between. This is just a way for individuals to assert dominance over one another to establish a natural pecking order.

Nesting
Once a female has successfully copulated with a male and her eggs have been fertilised she will allow the eggs to develop inside her for 14 to 30 days after last copulation before seeking a place to lay them. The amount of time between last copulation and oviposition (laying of eggs) is a good indicator of her approval of the nesting options you have provided her with. If a female lays the eggs more than 30 days after last copulation then this is a sure sign that your nesting options are inadequate. Prolonged retention of the eggs is harmful for the female. The eggs start to decompose inside the uterus which causes infection, uterine rupture and peritonitis (infection of the abdominal cavity). In worse case scenarios this infection spreads throughout the body leading to death. This is the most common cause of death to female monitors in captivity and highlights how important it is to make available good nesting options.
So what is good nesting?
A good question and one that in my opinion can probably never be answered in full; let’s look at the basics first. Ackies like to lay their eggs buried deep down in soil. They are seeking a place that is roughly in the mid 80’s F. The soil must be damp enough so that it holds a burrow well. The nesting substrate can consist of a topsoil/sand mix but the keeper must pay close attention to the amount of time the female holds her eggs after last copulation. If after the safe 30 day period then it can pay to experiment with the ratio of soil/sand to reduce the amount of time the female holds the eggs for.
To explain this a little better I will draw on a past experience of mine with a particular female ackie.
This female ackie had nested her eggs well for me in a topsoil/sand mix for a few clutches after she had come into my care as a 3 year old adult. However one clutch was laid 33 days after last copulation whereas it had been an average of 18 days for her previous clutches. I was not happy with those results so added some more sand to the mix, making the ratio slightly sand heavy. She returned to the normal 18 days for the next clutch after this but again results deteriorated. I then went to the extreme of hauling kilos upon kilos of a sandy/gravelly dirt from a gravel pit that I fish and filled her enclosure with this. Again results returned to the 18 day norm and continued to stay there until I parted with her.
This example also demonstrates how females can become more fussy of their preferred nesting as they get older. Females nesting for the first few times are easy to cater for but as they get older they seem to become more specific in what they are looking for in a potential nesting site.
Although I know a lot of people have success with nesting boxes I am personally not a fan. I feel providing them with a good 12” or more of substrate throughout the length of the enclosure is not only superior, but also allows for a greater margin of error on the keepers part. Having a small nest box means that the conditions the keeper is making available must be perfect. Again, this is more important with older females and I would like to hear from anybody who has an old (7 years plus) reproductive female who has only ever had access to a nest box as I doubt any exist.
Incubation
Once the eggs have been laid they must be removed from the enclosure and artificially incubated. My preferred method for this is to place the eggs in a container filled with perlite that has been mixed with water to a ratio of 0.8:1 (perlite:water). Incubated at 85F the eggs take an average of 105 days to hatch. My preferred containers are 7.5 litre Tupperware containers with the lid on and just three or four 2mm holes drilled in the sides to allow the pressure in the egg box to be the same as in the incubator. I know of people who did not provide these holes who have had their eggs pop when they opened the lid and the pressure rapidly changed. I use large egg boxes as the larger the mass the more slow any variations in temperature and humidity will be. Ackie eggs should never be rotated during incubation and it is necessary to place them in the incubation box in the same position as they were when dug up. Some breeders choose to mark the top of the eggs with a graphite pencil to show the correct orientation. Once the eggs are placed in the incubator it is essential that they are left alone other than opening the lid every 2 weeks for a couple of minutes to allow for fresh air exchange. The more the eggs are left alone the better the chance of them hatching becomes.
Rearing the hatchlings
Rearing hatchlings is simple. Once they have hatched I place them into another Tupperware container with damp paper towels as a substrate and keep this in the incubator until the umbilical wound has healed. This usually takes around 24 hours. I then place them in an enclosure that is set up exactly the same as the adults, only on a smaller scale and with a lower basking surface temperature of 125F. They feed on crickets, locusts and cockroaches of suitable sizes as well as chopped up pinkies. Supplementation is the same as for the adults. They can be raised in groups but squabbles can occur and smaller, less dominant individuals may be bullied away from food and basking sites. This is where 24/7 basking comes in to play.
24/7 Basking Lights
When keeping ackies in a group whether they are adults or juveniles, providing them with access to a basking site at all hours is advantageous. It allows the less dominant individuals to come out when the dominant ones are asleep and feed and bask as normal. Ackies are really clever lizards and they will soon work out a pattern that suits them within the group. With 24/7 access to basking group growth rates are a lot more even and it is far less likely to have an individual die from being bullied.

Hope this helps.

Written by a good mate of mine

[Aanayab1]

varaanus_mad: I can not thank you or your mate enough for this wealth of information. With permission I would like to print these off so I can keep them in a folder of all the useful information on Ackies I am finding. Again Thank you. One quick question on the dimentions of the cage size he spoke of, 5x3x2. Is that LxHxW? I have not assembled my adult cage yet and was planning on 4'x4'x2' (LxHxW) so I could very easily do 5'x4'x2' or 5'x4'x3' (LxHxW).

Antonio

[Barlow]

Hi. I wrote that guide and I meant 5Lx3Hx2W as a bare minimum. You can print off and do whatever with the guide. I wrote it because I was seeing so many ackies here in the Uk being kept in poor conditions and wanted to help educate people. I'm not after kudos or anything similar so please share it as much as you can.

Regards, Chris.

[Aanayab1]

Barlow: Thank you and I will share it as much as possible. I start building my enclosure tomorrow, and will be going with 5'Lx4'Hx2.5'W. I will be posting the enclosure and brief how to in another thread titled "Varanid enclosure thread(picture based)" If you have any other info you may think would help me or people just starting out please post it here or in the other thread I mentioned.

Antonio

[Gatorhunter1231]

That is a good caresheet chris. Covers ackies pretty well. I would only suggest multiply basking spots to help with the bullying. I generally do not do 24/7 lights on larger adults do to they will start being more active at night. Then they will spend the day in their burrows.

[Barlow]

I have never seen the need for multiple basking spots while using 24/7 basking. I don't see the problem of them coming out at night. They can use what they want, when they want. Photoperiods have proved totally useless to me with monitors. Thankyou for your kind comments regarding my write up. I try not to call it a care sheet as I despise such things lol.

[Aanayab1]

I had spoke to a man at proexotics the other day who said they also had stopped using the 24/7 light cycle as well and unfortunately our conversation drifted elsewhere before he explained the reason they stopped using that light cycle... While on the topic, what is a good light cycle? 12hrs on, 12 hrs off or should it be different?

Antonio

[Aanayab1]

Oh I have been wondering if there is any type of heating mat I should be getting to put under the tank to heat the substrate so it will hold a constant temperature? I was thinking that in nature soil probably stays (I have found no evidence written about this it is just an assumption) an even temperature for the most part due to the sheer volume of it but in an enclosure that only has 4'x2'x2' it will probably drop quite fast if the lights are not on 24/7, providing a constant heat source.

Antonio

[Barlow]

I insulate the bottom and sides of my enclosures so the soil keeps a good temp.
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x383/BaitrunnerBarlow/IMG_2990.jpg
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x383/BaitrunnerBarlow/IMG_2992.jpg

[Aanayab1]

Thats great! I was thinking of doing that on mine but was not sure how effective it be. I suppose I will do the same as well. It obviously cant hurt to try.

Antonio

[Aanayab1]

This is now going to turn into "My Ackie Cage build" thread hahaha, let the building and pictures begin!

The tub below is a cattle water trough with the dimensions of 53"Lx37"Wx20"D.

It is actually 5" longer, 13" wider but 4"shallower than the original galvanized tub I had planned to use. I figured the extra width and length would in a way make up for if not be better than the additional 4" depth. Also will admit that it was 20$ cheaper than the galvanized so that played a big part in my decision as well. :D

It will be filled completely with substrate and probably have an additional 2" or so above the rim so it will be completely hidden. The pictures to come will show that in more detail.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0273.jpg

[snake man12]

I wouldn't use galvanized metal as it is coated in zinc oxide. If burnt it could cause a condition called "Metal Fume Fever"

[varanus_mad]

I wouldn't use galvanized metal as it is coated in zinc oxide. If burnt it could cause a condition called "Metal Fume Fever"


What temperatures does the material start to decompose?

[snake man12]

Not that it would ever get to this temp but it is around 1300 degrees kelvin. Now thst I think of it that post was pretty useless. I just tend to stay away from galvanized because I am into knife making and it is dangerous with zinc.

[varanus_mad]

Not that it would ever get to this temp but it is around 1300 degrees kelvin. Now thst I think of it that post was pretty useless. I just tend to stay away from galvanized because I am into knife making and it is dangerous with zinc.



So in other words your house would be burning down for it to be a problem... LOl (well actually a couch fire or furniture fire would do it in the corner of the room)

I like it :D

Knife making eh wood/bone handles to?

Never could get the hang of it try as i might.

[infernalis]

I am sure glad my cage never gets over 100 degrees Fahrenheit, I used galvanized hardware to prevent rust.

if it starts getting over a thousand kelvin, I'll have to move my lizards.

[snake man12]

So in other words your house would be burning down for it to be a problem... LOl (well actually a couch fire or furniture fire would do it in the corner of the room)

I like it :D

Knife making eh wood/bone handles to?

Never could get the hang of it try as i might.

I am using stag handles as well as my own milled and routed ones. I should start a knife thread:)

[Aanayab1]

Ok so I got a late start this morning and did not get as much accomplished as I had hoped. Here is the start of the bottom half which will only be holding the tub of substrate. I am having to build the cage in two halves so I can fit it through the tiny doors (built in the fifties) of my current house.

Framing of the base.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0275.jpg

Corner blocks to attach the vertical framing.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0276.jpg

R-30 non-backed attic insulation installed.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0277.jpg

Flooring the actual tub will sit on.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0278.jpg

Beginning of vertical framing.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0279.jpg

I will be getting up early tomorrow to finish up the build and hopefully begin the painting and sealing.

[Pirarucu]

Question about the galvanized troughs: For the future I was thinking of using them as water areas in larger monitor cages, but I recently heard that they can leach zinc into the water. Does anyone know if they make similar tubs out of other materials that would not cause problems like this? Also, if they leach zinc into water, and you keep the soil moist.. Is it possible the soil could become filled with zinc over a long period of time? I've heard of a lot of keepers using them as the base for their monitor cages, but I'm starting to wonder if it's not such a good idea.

[Gatorhunter1231]

The plastic tub Antino is using would solve all your worries. These plastic tubs are just as large as most galvanized tubs.
BTW nice progress on the enclosure. Can't wait to see it finished. Remember to water proof things.

[infernalis]

I always love it when a great cage comes together!

[Aanayab1]

I am gonna try the Drylok extreme. It has worked long term for me on houses and barns, both wood and concrete applications. All the damp substrate will be contained in the tub so all I need to worry about is RH and water spills... in theory... now worst case scenario, I am wrong and will get to build another soon :) I love building things!! Oh but before I apply the drylok I will silicone all the seams as well.

[Pirarucu]

The plastic tub Antino is using would solve all your worries. These plastic tubs are just as large as most galvanized tubs.
BTW nice progress on the enclosure. Can't wait to see it finished. Remember to water proof things.There are some sizable ones out there, but I have yet to see a 10' circular one. My idea was to take two of the ten foot circulars and place them side by side, then build a box around them. Fill one with dirt and the other with water.
Nice progress on the cage, can't wait to see the end result.

Edit: Nevermind, I just found some. Polyethylene doesn't leach toxins, correct? Now there's the question of how much more are they? LOL

[Gatorhunter1231]

I have never finished an adult cage. Im always tearing down or rebuilding. I like watching them explore new things.

[Aanayab1]

Pirarucu: What lucky creature will be getting a house that big? My opinion on the Galvanized is this. You can buy water troughs that are meant for cattle to be used for human consumption, so the leaching of zinc if any must be minimal. You can find astounding amounts of information on the internet about galvanized products. The reason it is not used in human food preparation is because the acids in human food cause rapid deterioration of the zinc coating, and other weird(in my mind cool) chemical reactions. As long as you use a non acidic substrate in theory you should be ok but then again you may need to have your substrate tested for PH level every so often to be sure the waste, decaying food and decomposing wood does not add acidity. I suppose the PH of the water you use may be a concern as well but I would think not.

[Pirarucu]

The big guys. Waters, niles, albigs, etc. For the less water inclined species such as the albigs, I would just fill both of the circulars with dirt, and put a smaller trough of water inside one of them. I am a firm believer in extra large caging for monitors... LOL.
For now though, I'm aiming for a group of ackies like you are.
Thank you, that's good to know. Overall, I'll probably go with the plastic ones now that I know they're available in big enough sizes. Partly just because they'd only be half the weight. I'm in Texas luckily, so I should be able to just pick them up myself when I start up, no need for shipping.

[Aanayab1]

Day two progress...

Sides on frame of bottom half.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0282.jpg

Tub inside frame. A great fit as well!
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0283.jpg

Checking to be sure my top fits, and it did like a glove.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0284.jpg

Corner braces for the plywood that separates the two halves.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0285.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0286.jpg

Silicone to help create seal between tub and plywood.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0287.jpg

Forgot to take pictures during a few steps. But I attached the plywood to tub and corner braces. then covered it all in silicone to waterproof and fill in around screws to prevent water seepage and the possibility of them rusting.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0288.jpg

Again forgot some steps... finished up the top half framed out where the 3/8th glass will be.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0289.jpg

Sooooo... I took off tomorrow so I can build the fully removable top and paint/waterproof the inside of the top half. Then I will be able to move it to the permanant place in the house finish assembly, put trim on and paint the outside.

[infernalis]

love it..

May I use those photos??

[Aanayab1]

Yes, of course you may. Do you mind if I ask what for?

I'm super excited about my progress, and can hardy wait to build another. Deciding what species will take a while though because I still am so focused on the ackies and will no way be done reading on them soon.

[Gatorhunter1231]

Looking good Antino. You got a lot done today.

[infernalis]

Yes, of course you may. Do you mind if I ask what for?.

Hmmm.

savannahmonitor.net, savannahmonitor.co, varanus.us, varanid.us, varanuspark.com...

I am working on a page to guide people in building cages suitable for varanids.

this is A. simple, B. practical & C. cost effective.

I also think it would be great for apartment dwellers.

your design is sound, and I am impressed by it.

[Aanayab1]

Awesome, That is quite the complement to me, Thank you very much Infernalis.

Well my neighbors should love me this morning because I'm on my way out to finish up all I can today... Power tools Plus 8am never makes anyone happy.... well oher than the person using them haha

[Aanayab1]

Got the lids put together, two coats of primer on the inside, framed out what will hold the glass in place. Now I'm off to lowes to pick up light bulbs, trim and corner molding. Then walnart to get light fixtures. I will get some more pictures up later tonight.

[Pirarucu]

Looking awesome!

[Gatorhunter1231]

What kind of door setup are you doing?

[Aanayab1]

So I got a bit frustrated getting the supplies I mentioned earlier. By the time I got home I just wanted to eat dinner and relax so here is what got done, didn't take any of the primed inside but I'll get one or two before I paint tomorrow.

Bottom of lid left side.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0291.jpg

Bottom of both lids.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0292.jpg

Lid on and I couldn't ask for a better fit.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0293.jpg

Seam where the two lids meet in center. A piece of trim will cover the 1/8" gap you see.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0296.jpg

More random shots of how the lid is assembled and fits.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0294.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0295.jpg

I decided to go with this two piece, completely removable lid for a few well thought out reasons.

1) Because from working under the hood of cars my whole life I have come to hate hinged lids. It seems like no matter how hard you try to avoid it the brace holding it open always gets in the way, knocked out so the hood slams down on you or the place you need to get to would be a lot easier to get to if the hood itself was not in the way.

2) I can open only the side I need to access and in theory keep a little more heat from escaping compared to propping the whole thing open(key word was THEORY lol).

3) I'm not tall enough or have a long enough reach to grab an ackie who thinks it is gonna make a run for it 53" away but I may have a chance if the crazed sprinter is only 30" away.

4) Half sized lid is half the weight.

5) If warping does come into play it should not be as drastic on the smaller halves as it would be on one larger lid.

As an added bonus I just thought of I will be able to put things on the lid that is in place so I have both hands free to work with and not be attempting to balance things on the corners.

The lid will be held in place at all four corners of each half with the stud and cotter pins you see on race car hoods(they are aluminum so no issues with rust).

[Gatorhunter1231]

lighting ideas
I like these. Dual fixture
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/DSC00295.jpg
duals
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/reptiles/027.jpg
bank lights (several porclein fxtures mounted to 2x4). Dome light is also in pic but mainly for heating dirt for nesting.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/DSC00306.jpg

banks
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/reptiles/030.jpg

sunlight :)
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/Gatorhunter/reptiles/hellbound2.jpg

Many ways to skin a cat. Most people like banks of lights, some like domes, some screw porclein fixtures into cage, etc. I have found the outside dual lights to be very efficient. They can be adjusted to point in different angles and built to run two bulbs. Some are weather tight and built to handle moisture.

[Aanayab1]

Okay........ so I hate caulk/silicone!!! but it is all done where need be and I began painting the outside today. I wont have the chance to pain the rest for a few days but I will get pictures up asap.

This is the glass silicone in place and trimmed out. Cant paint though until the silicone dries dang it!
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0299.jpg

[simpleyork]

looking good

[Aanayab1]

There has been a lot done on the cage but been doing it sporadically and forgetting to take pics. This is some of todays progress and I am taking a break from filling with substrate now, not so easy moving 1200lbs of substrate with a shovel and 5gal buckets....

The substrate I am using. I will explain what exactly it is later this evening when I have more time.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0313_zpse237f3ff.jpg

Cage in its permanent place.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0314_zps6ffc8288.jpg

The joints where the two halves met up got silicone.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0315_zpsd65f9383.jpg

I will be posting more later tonight

Thanks for looking.
Antonio.

[infernalis]

very nice (in Borate tone with two thumbs up)

[simpleyork]

looks nice,
I hear yah on the 5 gallon buckets and dirt, I really wish I had a door to the backyard everytime I need to fill my cages up.

[infernalis]

looks nice,
I hear yah on the 5 gallon buckets and dirt, I really wish I had a door to the backyard everytime I need to fill my cages up.


That's why I love my truck.

The soil vein I get my dirt from is 1600 feet from the door.

Next trip back, I am screening some sand from the creek, to let my cage soil breath a little better.

[simpleyork]

I have a truck . . . though be a waist to try and take it in the back yard talk about a 12293 point turn just to get it arond the shed. And I sure don't think my wife would be okay with my backing it down the stairs . . .lol

[infernalis]

I have a truck . . . though be a waist to try and take it in the back yard talk about a 12293 point turn just to get it arond the shed. And I sure don't think my wife would be okay with my backing it down the stairs . . .lol


I just laughed at my screen for real...:cool:

[Aanayab1]

Ok so I sold one of my salt water setups and they showed up today randomly to get it... lost a lot of valuable time!!!

This is the point I hated the substrate!!!
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0316_zps54694ac0.jpg

This is the point I wished I had hired someone else to move the sand for me...
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0317_zps6959f0e2.jpg

Finally its all in there... yay!
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0318_zpsdeddfab0.jpg

So the sand is red high end masonry sand. It is pulverized red river rock. Silica based with a moderate iron oxide content, as close to the Australian soil I could get. It holds a nice burrow the depth of my arm so I am hoping it will be to the ackies liking.

Antonio

[Aanayab1]

Oh I am waiting to spread the substrate out and add hides and stuff until the silicone cures(48ish hours).

[infernalis]

coming together impressively.

[simpleyork]

much agreed there

[infernalis]

I see monitor husbandry in general improving rapidly.

Glad to see people paying attention (including myself)

[varanus_mad]

Im not a fan of builders sand its sharper than the natural stuff none of the edges get polished off.

[infernalis]

Im not a fan of builders sand its sharper than the natural stuff none of the edges get polished off.


Makes a good point there Shane.

Desert sand gets blown around forever rubbing grains, and beach sand gets tumble polished by waves.

It's like comparing crushed stone gravel to natural gravel.

Now the question is, effects on the monitors?

[varanus_mad]

Makes a good point there Shane.

Desert sand gets blown around forever rubbing grains, and beach sand gets tumble polished by waves.

It's like comparing crushed stone gravel to natural gravel.

Now the question is, effects on the monitors?

Bosc's eyes have been irritated by it in the past.

Childrens playsand best stuff to use...

Anyway see how it goes.

[infernalis]

Bosc's eyes have been irritated by it in the past.

Childrens playsand best stuff to use...

Anyway see how it goes.

I can easily understand that statement Shane, scratches on the cornea have to be bothersome.

The nictitating membrane wiping sharp bits over they eye sounds painful.

[varanus_mad]

I can easily understand that statement Shane, scratches on the cornea have to be bothersome.

The nictitating membrane wiping sharp bits over they eye sounds painful.

Ive scratched a cornea with a pair of sunglasses agony only lasts a few days though

[infernalis]

Ive scratched a cornea with a pair of sunglasses agony only lasts a few days though

But we have tear ducts and soft eyelids..

[Gatorhunter1231]

Not all playsand is equal either. I have lived in several different states and it varies by state. Some has pebbles, some soft, coarse grains and fine grains. Lowes in Florida had great sand but in Oklahoma it is the worst I have found. Same bag and all. K-mart is good here.

It appears Antino has a nice starting point to work from. May need some topsoil but only time will tell.

[Aanayab1]

I considered that as well. While reading through the Biawak journal, speaking of the one reporting on the ackies spotted mating in the open wild. It says that the ackies tend to burrow around rock outcroppings. They use the areas where the rock breaks off in slabs and tiny particles to burrow. That gave me the impression they do not use the open sand that has blown around to where down the edges, it is simply the broken or crushed fragments of rock. It would seem that being an animal that digs and has eyelids it would be a natural behavior to close the eye while digging, much like an alligator or shark closes theirs while feeding, self preservation is a strong survival instinct of any species. From the Biawak articles and the others it seems they are not an open desert species like the perentie and others. They are rock monitor for the most part from my understanding, using the near by xeric shrub lands for hunting. Now I very well could be wrong. I will watch and inspect the eyes often and watch for signs of irritation. At the first sign of irritation I will change to something else and take the little to my vet if needed.

Antonio

[Pirarucu]

I considered that as well. While reading through the Biawak journal, speaking of the one reporting on the ackies spotted mating in the open wild. It says that the ackies tend to burrow around rock outcroppings. They use the areas where the rock breaks off in slabs and tiny particles to burrow. That gave me the impression they do not use the open sand that has blown around to where down the edges, it is simply the broken or crushed fragments of rock. It would seem that being an animal that digs and has eyelids it would be a natural behavior to close the eye while digging, much like an alligator or shark closes theirs while feeding, self preservation is a strong survival instinct of any species. From the Biawak articles and the others it seems they are not an open desert species like the perentie and others. They are rock monitor for the most part from my understanding, using the near by xeric shrub lands for hunting. Now I very well could be wrong. I will watch and inspect the eyes often and watch for signs of irritation. At the first sign of irritation I will change to something else and take the little to my vet if needed.

AntonioYou are correct, from my understanding they can even come from forests and savannas. In "Lizard Kings" There is a brief shot of an Ackie on a rocky outcropping overlooking what looks almost like a rainforest.

http://www.monitor-lizards.net/karten%20jpg/acanthurus.jpg

[Gatorhunter1231]

Against what most would think, they do very well with high humidty 60% or so. Bet it's 80% in tunnels. Babies dehydrate extremely easy which is a hint that they are not out in open hot, dry air. I keep rocks scattered and in piles in the enclosure. Same with logs. I also toss in leaf litter to trap humidty. Tunnels usually start under rocks or logs.

[Aanayab1]

Yes they do require 55% or higher from what I have read. That makes perfect sense to me because around rock outcroppings you have to take into consideration the water run off around the outcropping causing the sand/soil to become more moist. In theory the piles of rock slabs, chunks and debris would shade the ground from direct sunlight causing a slower evaporation rate resulting in a slightly higher yet steady humidity level than in the surrounding xeric shrub-lands.

I just spoke with one of the geology professors at the university I attend E.T.S.U.. I asked about the sharp verses round sand and the idea of kids play sand, beach sand or silica sand damaging an eye. At a microscopic level no sand is round, it may feel that way or look that way to the naked eye but is in fact just very small geometric shapes in most, if not all cases. Some are rounder than others but not "round". Quartz (silica) sand is most likely to be "rounder" because it breaks down a lot easier than most other minerals or rocks. Beach sand or "kids play sand" will be highly in consistent in both size and shape due to the fact that it is made up mostly of decomposed and/or broken coral skeletons and sea shells down to the microscopic level. The pieces that are actually round are what we refer to as silt, the stuff washed out of the sand through rinsing it... The quote that got me was "if I had to chose any type sand to get in my eye, I would chose the silica based because there is less potential of cuts, scrapes or small particles breaking off in my eye".

Now I am a scientifically minded person. If there is no visual evidence or reproducible results in a study or experiment I simply can not bring myself to believe it. That being said this information was only given to me by one professor and it is only his educated opinion. I will take this information and research it further to compare his opinion to studies of sand I can find.
I will add that I tend to lean to the side of believing him due to the fact he does have a doctorate in geology. If I find any evidence that supports anything other than the information he provided I will post it and ask any others to please do the same.

Antonio

[infernalis]

thinkers.. love it.

Keep those brains in motion guys.

[varanus_mad]

I can only comment on what Ive personally come across... Get him to look at some of your stuff i suspect it was larger grain stuff that caused the issues with the boscs i mentioned.

What sort of ackies are they?

[Aanayab1]

They are V. a. acanthurus is the species I am getting if I am not mistaken.

Small monitor stack... check. Although this one is only 14"x14" so I am sure they very well may need one that is more along the lines of their adult size when the time comes.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0332_zps1bdd0d87.jpg

Some rocks I gathered today to attempt mimicking the natural environment....
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0333_zps37002b2c.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0334_zps5acec852.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0335_zps42bbf6dc.jpg

I believe they are slate and sand stone but not really sure.
giant slabs are every where around here, the hard thing is finding them more along the lines of these sizes to not look awkward in the cage yet still natural.

Antonio

[Aanayab1]

Now that all the silicone is completely cured, it's back to the fun. I will be needing replies to how the rocks are setup though. I have tried to place hide spots the entire length of the enclosure to provide hides in all temp gradients. After I post this I'm heading to pick up some light fixtures and will get them installed tonight hopefully.

Leveled out sand.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0356_zpsa43eb28e.jpg

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0357_zpsb8f36f82.jpg

Front view.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0358_zpsdb15af0d.jpg

Looking from above left side.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0359_zps6d6b4a77.jpg

Looking from above right side.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0360_zps4aa4fb30.jpg

Looking from directly above.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0361_zpsb64990bf.jpg

I want to add some nice stick/logs but have had no luck finding any that don't fall apart with rot when I pick them up. Is it ok to just go cut some from the oak trees in my back yard? Should I add more rock to add height to the existing stacks?

[infernalis]

Yes it is perfectly fine to cut from a tree. The log in my Sav enclosure was standing tall until I went crazy with my chain saw.

Be really careful with the rocks, monitors in general are busy landscapers, and I would hate for the rocks to fall on one while they are digging under them or climbing on them.

[Aanayab1]

Ok cool, I will pick and cut one tomorrow or two.

About the rocks, I see your point but what is a good way to prevent the collapse if there is one?

[infernalis]

Good epoxy.

[Gatorhunter1231]

I agree with Wayne. Rocks that are stacked have to be perfectly stable or epoxied together. Liquid nail glue would work too. My first croc monitor actually rolled a huge log onto to himself and broke his neck. Crazy how stong monitors can be. They can be busy bees. My ackies have made large rocks dissappear before from digging under them or burying them.
Need to do some shelves, logs or something on the back wall. Add a little more cage room to it and it will make it not look so open. I cut branches and logs up all the time. I'm going to attempt to make rock walls using concrete/mortar mix sometime soon. Looking good and is almost there ;)

[infernalis]

That's why I drilled and bolted my log in place with 3/8 steel and heavy washers.

[Aanayab1]

Thanks Gatorhunter1231, I will glue the rocks together. Also I will be getting logs in and I'll figure out some way to do shelving with either logs or cork bark or perhaps the artificial rocks that are super light. I'll think on it over night.

Thanks

[Gatorhunter1231]

All good ideas Antino. More then one way to skin a cat or so they say ;)

[Aanayab1]

I found an awesome log today I will get it cut and in cage by tonight. I placed a temp and humidity gage in yesterday and the humidity is 80%.... How do I lower it?

[Gatorhunter1231]

Let it run for a week before trying to solve humidty issues. The heat from the lights will start to dry it out and I bet it will get on down to 60% in a few days.

[Aanayab1]

Gotcha on the humidity issue. Surface temps in the basking spots are at 115-120 with 50watt floods. The ambient temp in middle is 81 and cool side 77.... so not sure if I should try out the 75 watt floods or wait that out a bit as well.

Can't cut my log and put it in tonight cause my friend has my chainsaw dang it! I'll go get it in the morning though.

Antonio

[infernalis]

can you lower the bulbs an inch?

Makes a big difference.

[Pirarucu]

can you lower the bulbs an inch?

Makes a big difference.Or raise the basking spot an inch, that works too.

[Aanayab1]

Well I actually got to looking at how the lights were shining on the basking spots at an angle and thought that may have something to do with the heat distribution. Ran to lowes and picked up these nifty things...
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0363.jpg

Installed
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0364.jpg
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/Aanayab1/Ackie%20cage%20build/IMG_0365.jpg

This way the light is from directly above and can be easily adjusted for height.I'll give it over night to let the temps stabilize and check them again.

You can see the fixture the lights were in and estimate how much closer they are now. It looks like quite a bit to me.

[infernalis]

those adjustable socket things are awesome looking.

[Aanayab1]

I thought the same. They are rated for up to a 100 watt flood or spot bulb. Wet areas and can be painted... Cost 17ish bucks each but super handy it seems.

[Pirarucu]

Those look like a great product! The one thing is that I would make sure they can't reach the base, as they could then climb over and potentially come into contact with the bulbs. Yours looks fine, but I though I would put that out there for anyone who is looking into these.

[Little Wise Owl]

This looks awesome. I'm getting such great ideas for my tegu enclosure from monitor owners. lol

[Gatorhunter1231]

You may have to try the 75 watt just to get your ambient up a tad more. My ackies tend to not want a whole lot to do with temps in 70s. Low 80s get used a little, mid 80s often but then like the 90's most of the time.
Love the light extensions. How durable are they and do they move when touched? YOu can't keep monitors off of anything.

[infernalis]

YOu can't keep monitors off of anything.

True....

http://www.varanus.us/outlet/outlet4.jpg

[Aanayab1]

Gatorhunter1231: The extensions are super ridged, to the point that when I was trying to adjust them I had to hold the sockets on the fixture because they were beginning to bend. Then resorted to roommate holding fixture while I adjusted the extensions. They wiggle when bumped but return to place. The hard part was the weight of the extension plus the bulb weight was a bit much for the adjustable fixture. If you look close at the fixture and where it normally adjusts from you can see I turned it on its side so it would not fall, the other had to be pointed almost vertical for the same reason. If I had the ceramic fixture this would be less of an issue I'm sure.

[Aanayab1]

I am dealing with a bit of frustration with temps right now and need a little input, please.

The basking area(basking area is about 2.5'x2') has solid temps ranging from 115 on the outermost area to 151 where the basking lights shine in same area. The majority of the basking area is 128-135. The hot spot is on a branch of a log and if I put my hand on it for 10 seconds then check the temp where my hand was it drops to 140-143. The cool end of tank peeks at 91 day 84 night. The hot end is 101 day 89 night.

Now the next issue is humidity..... Holy cow its humid as it can possibly get in there.... Literally 99% day 74% on cool end, middle is 85ish% day 70ish% night, hot end 70% day 67% night.... now I have no clue what to do to lower it a bit. I tried opening the cool end for 24hrs with lights on and it worked but then less than 2hrs after closing it was right back sky high...

Any input on the situation will be greatly appreciated.

Antonio

[infernalis]

how many watts are the bulbs again??

My have to go a little smaller and move them a little closer.

seems like it's boiling the moisture right out of your sand.

[Aanayab1]

There are two 75watt halogen floods and two 50's. I tried two 50's only at first but the cool end would not get above 71 and the bulbs were 2" from the basking spot to get 130ish. So I tried one 50 and one 75 and brought ambient up a few degrees and moved the light another 1" up, still to close for comfort. Then tried two 75's... got basking area right temps and light high enough away but cool side still only at 78-80. Added the next fixture put in the two 50's and we have the issue that I posted at 4:36 today just above. I have now removed one of the 50's to see what temps are but I will have to wait 8ish hours to let things balance out and get any type of real reading... I think.

The humidity has been nuts through out all the different combos.... that is what is blowing my mind. with just the two 50's it was cool side 88% day, 70% night. Did not check hot side at that point...

[Gatorhunter1231]

I have used many combinations. Last time I was using two 50's and a 75 watt (50s on one side and 75 in middle) The hotter it is the more humidty it will pull from the top few inches of substrate but it will steady out within two weeks and start giving you true readings. I usually have water dripping off lids in new cage setups because of the humidty swings. You are headed down the right track by trying things out and seeing the results. 78-80 is a little cool but it is acceptable for sure.

Trying to get my 10'x13'x8' foot shed to right temps while maintaining 80% humidty was a real nightmare.

[Aanayab1]

okay so this is normal ish for a new set up. I was thinking there was a possibility some type of cycling, like when setting up a fish tank, may be the issue but this is a first for me so I was unsure. I will stick the two 75's and a single 50 to see what temps it will bring for tomorrow.

[Pirarucu]

Any updates on these guys?

[Aanayab1]

Yes, sorry I have been so absent. I had a home burglary that cleaned me out of all electronics, a lot of personal belongings and even a 550lb safe containing a large sum of cash and valuables. I am using a friends computer at the moment because There are more important things to be replaced before gadgets and toys.

All four of the monitors are doing AWESOME!!! Seems like you can watch them grow week to week. There are two that are now in the 14" range and the other two are smaller and more skittish so I have not measured but a guess is 9ish" I do believe I have either 2 pairs or 3 females one male. The biggest is always out and bold to the point of approaching me while doing daily tasks to see whats up. The other three keep their distance and stay hidden quite often. The social interaction is more than I know how to explain well but I will try. Seems they communicate with head bobs and tail wagging. Their stance at times seems to either intimidate or invite the others to approach. I have definitely noticed a pecking order that has changed now over the last few weeks. I had been keeping a weekly weight gain/growth chart on all four of them to attempt to get an average weight to length ratio but all of the info was on one of the computers that was stolen.... It was very interesting to say the least. They seemed to grow a steady rate in length but would gain weight sporadically in relation to length. I also had feeding charts as to what was fed, how often and at what times through out the day. With that I was going to compare the data sheets once one year of data was collected to see if there was a notable pattern of any type. BUT sadly that is all gone now and I started to keep records again in a note pad which I will transfer to digital once I acquire a new computer. The new data started being collected 11-26-12 unfortunately it will be missing the data from the first two months or so I had them. The good side to that is I will be doing it all again with some hold backs from the first successful clutch I have.

I will get back on here later this evening but for now it is time for the christmas dinner!!!

Antonio

[Pirarucu]

Dang, sorry man, I feel for you. Fingers crossed you get it all back. Good that the monitors are ok though, and great to hear about the interactions!

[Aanayab1]

Thanks, I will be getting a computer the beginning of Jan. if everything goes right. I will post recent pictures at that time because I am a mac guy and Trying on this PC will most likely ruin my good spirits for the evening lol. Yea I am super excited about the interactions of the social group. It blows my mind day to day. Happy holidays to everyone and I'll become an active member again soon.

Antonio