Rough Green Snake

[Sadie.bell]

Hi everyone! I recently found an adult rough green snake and what looks like a newly hatched black racer. i was wondering if it would be ok if i put them in the same aquarium? they're both so small that i figured they'd have plenty of space. and on more thing, exactly what do i feed the baby black racer? it's so tiny i thought maybe cutting a pinkie mouse in half lengthwise might make it a tad bit smaller so he could chomp down?

[infernalis]

Black Racers are reptile eaters. That rough green is a meal to the racer.

I raised up 2 black racers, and their first 5 meals each were small anole lizards, baby racers from the south are Anole eaters.

Northern black racers feed on baby garter snakes, milk snakes and Storeria (Dekayi & Red belly)

In other words, Black racers will eat any reptile they can overpower without hesitation.

[infernalis]

Almost forgot, the only way I could coax my racers into taking pinkies was to rub anole scent onto the pinkie.

[TheBoogieDown]

:D Rough Green Snake was the first snake I ever owned. Such a beautiful snake!!

[StudentoReptile]

Ditto on what Wayne said. Keep them separate.

How large is the aquarium?

My advice on the rough green snake: don't treat them like a snake. Set them up as you would a chameleon or an anole. A very spacious, naturalistic terrarium with lots of foliage and branches to climb on. They would also benefit from a UV light, too.

Don't go for the "snake set-up;" i.e. aspen shavings in a glass tank, with a hide box and a water bowl. They will NOT thrive in such an environment.

Green snakes are mostly insectivores. You can try small crickets, waxworms, and moths. I have heard of them eating small lizards, but haven't found concrete evidence. You can always toss an anole or a small Mediterranean gecko in there. If they don't eat, then its got a cagemate.

[infernalis]

I have also read and cannot confirm that spiders are an important element in the diet of green snakes.

[StudentoReptile]

Good way to get rid of wolf spiders in your home!

I had read that, too, Wayne, but didn't suggest it because it didn't seem as a feasible food source in captivity. Of course, I did mention moths...[shrugs]

[TheBoogieDown]

We had our green snake on Zoo Med Eco Earth. He seemed to LOVE it. We also had a log climb that was wrapped in a leafy and green vine. He'd curl up on the climb in that and just chill out.

[infernalis]

We had our green snake on Zoo Med Eco Earth. He seemed to LOVE it. We also had a log climb that was wrapped in a leafy and green vine. He'd curl up on the climb in that and just chill out.

OK, so how long did it live before it went belly up?

(just asking.)

[TheBoogieDown]

15 days. The vet said, about 4 days before he died, that his body was riddled with parasites. I remember it was 15 days because we took him back to where we got him shortly after, and the gave us a nice "Too bad, so sad, not our problem anymore!" 1 day over the return policy

[infernalis]

15 days. The vet said, about 4 days before he died, that his body was riddled with parasites. I remember it was 15 days because we took him back to where we got him shortly after, and the gave us a nice "Too bad, so sad, not our problem anymore!" 1 day over the return policy

gonna get myself in trouble here, but oh well.

Virtually all reptiles have parasites, but it's a symbiotic relationship, parasites don't want their host dead, they need the host alive or the parasite will perish as well.

Correctly supported animals can carry a parasite load and live just fine, and without reintroduction, it has been proven that the parasites themselves grow old and die.

Some years ago a study was done where wild caught imports were tested for parasites, NOT treated, but given optimal husbandry, the parasite load gradually went away.

The problem is that entirely too many people (myself included) still have work to do "perfecting" husbandry of many reptiles.

Since rough greens are considered "cheap, disposable pets" no one is going to invest much in sorting out exactly what optimal husbandry is.

I have tried keeping the Cyclophiops Major twice, both attempts failed.

The cyclophiops Major is the Asian version of our common green snakes.

The next time I find one for sale, I will be getting it, as I want to try keeping it like I do my monitors, hot and humid, just like the jungles they come from.

If that attempt fails, I am done trying.

http://www.reptard.info/edits/Cyclophiops.jpg

[StudentoReptile]

Virtually all reptiles have parasites, but it's a symbiotic relationship, parasites don't want their host dead, they need the host alive or the parasite will perish as well.

Correctly supported animals can carry a parasite load and live just fine, and without reintroduction, it has been proven that the parasites themselves grow old and die.

Some years ago a study was done where wild caught imports were tested for parasites, NOT treated, but given optimal husbandry, the parasite load gradually went away.

The problem is that entirely too many people (myself included) still have work to do "perfecting" husbandry of many reptiles.


I have known this for a while, as well. A lot of hobbyists seem to automatically think all parasites are bad and must be eradicated ASAP, when in reality, what usually ends up killing the reptile is what always ends up killing the reptile: poor husbandry.

Wild specimens live for years in nature with "healthy" parasite fauna in their bodies and do fine. Its when they are brought into captivity, and put into less-than-ideal conditions that they stress out, their immunity levels take a dive, and the internal parasites bloom....causing the health of the animal to decrease.

[TheBoogieDown]

Yeah, I'd have more information on what the guy said but I was, actually underway when my girlfriend noticed he was very lethargic and even when she went to pick him up to take him to the vet he didn't move, struggle, or try to escape from her. I guess it could have been a super huge number of reasons he died... poor husbandry on our part, him being a pet store snake, I'm out of ideas, etc. I do miss him though.

[DragonsEye]

I have tried keeping the Cyclophiops Major twice, both attempts failed.

The cyclophiops Major is the Asian version of our common green snakes.

The next time I find one for sale, I will be getting it, as I want to try keeping it like I do my monitors, hot and humid, just like the jungles they come from.

If that attempt fails, I am done trying.

http://www.reptard.info/edits/Cyclophiops.jpg

What did you feed yours, Wayne?

I do wonder if the worm diet they are generally given in captivity isn't a big part of the problem. (And keeping them healthy does seem to be a challenge for most people I have heard keeping them.) Seem to recall reading that earthworms have a rather low nutritional value. If so, then even though Cyclophiops will much on them with gusto, such a diet may be nutritional deficient. This would then impact their health. Considering the habitat of Cyclophiops, I wonder if slugs and perhaps even leeches might not make up a large part of their diet. (I have read that slugs and snails have a very high nutrient value.) I have heard insect larvae are believed to make up part of their diet in the wild (which again would likely be more nutrient packed than earthworms). Also I have read that some will take pinkies. And if this latter is true, that would make providing food far easier.

Gorgeous snakes! I've been wanting to try one but really would rather wait until I find someone with long term success to share their tips with me first.

[infernalis]

Earthworms are actually very good nutritionally, lots of protein, water and there has to be mineral content in all that dirt inside them.

Even with supplement sprays my snakes lasted about a year and passed.

Now here is where it gets interesting, take them from a rain forest / jungle and then keep them in a box with wood chips.

I feel very confident that the lack of humidity in caging is the key here, the idea never crossed my mind until I learned it from Savannah Monitors.

My green snake cage was "suitable" (so I thought) but it consisted of fake vines, fake limbs, and dry substrate.

so we take an animal out of a hundred degree jungle with 80%+ humidity and cage it in a box at 80 degrees with 20% humidity and failure is imminent.

[DragonsEye]

Earthworms are actually very good nutritionally, lots of protein

Do wish I could remember where I read that they weren't all that good -- that way I could go back and check that source's sources. But, I will take your word for it unless I find something verifiable that says differently. And if I ever should, then I will post it so if it is bogus it can get torn apart, if it is accurate it can be learned from. :)

Earthworms ... there has to be mineral content in all that dirt inside them.

There is that. LOL

I feel very confident that the lack of humidity in caging is the key here, the idea never crossed my mind until I learned it from Savannah Monitors.

Good point. In any event, though I would love to try them, I think I can remain patient until far more experienced herpers like yourself can "get the kinks" in their husbandry worked out. ;)

[infernalis]

the thing is, and don't get me wrong, I am thankful for it, the numbers imported are very small, both times that I bought one, they were from shipments in the single digit numbers.

In a way that's great, it means that there not coming in by the hundreds, or thousands to all die. (like many monitors do)