Best "friends"!

[Trollbie]

Disclaimer: It is not recommended that you ever place a snake and a lizard together. Furthermore, you should never house them together.

Look at those faces! :D

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll256/Czechish/93D2774E-1321-4F73-94CE-6DDD2BAEAD01-20848-00000DA48069263A.jpg

[Valvaren]

I don't know why you would have risked that, but I guess to each their own.

[marvelfreak]

Cute picture.

[Gungirl]

It is a cute picture but I would recommend keeping them separate just in case.

[snake man12]

Settle down everybody it's just a cute pic.

[Lankyrob]

Settle down everybody it's just a cute pic.

Until the snake tries to eat the lizard :no: :no:

[snake man12]

Until the snake tries to eat the lizard :no: :no:

Oh please they were probably together for no more than 30 seconds.

Also does that snake look like it is in feeding mode?

[Lankyrob]

Anything is "fine" until something goes wrong, just not worth the risk in my mind.

[Hurrok]

Super cute picture :) They both look content with each others company.

To others: Yes, the snake could eat the lizard, and a tiger could eat a dog but you see some pretty neat friendships in the creature realm ;)

[jaleely]

It's still a cute pic. In general i wouldn't suggest people do things like that...but i think trollbie knows her animals enough for a quick pic!

I've shown my dog my "safe" snakes, and my tarantulas. You have to really gauge the behavior of the animal. Same is true for even handling an animal at any time.

[*Don't Mind Me*]

I know the risk is that the snake could maim the gecko, but the lizard has an evil smile, and the snake looks frightened.

[jaleely]

they are probably not too happy. lol
I don't think we need to freak out though.
I really wouldn't suggest anyone just try this, but usually the owner...usually...knows the body language of the animal and can determine safety.

The majority of my pets have been around each other, with no ill affects. I do watch them closely for signs, and remove them apart if i suspect anything other than curiosity.

It's funny, my pets are used to each other...i had a friend visit and was showing her snakes, and there was hissing, speedy getaways, everything. THey completely didn't like her and felt her strangeness. And she wasn't afraid, she has snakes too! It' was weird though. The body language, sounds, actions of each snake was clearly upset.

Anyway, it's just a cute pic. But, of course, animals shouldn't be allowed to roam around or be housed together like that. Trollbie knows that though!

[Lankyrob]

THe problem i see with this is that WE may know it shouldnt be done, and what we do in our own homes with our own animals is our own business but when it is posted on a very well respected forum like this then inexperienced people see it, and unless we point out it is wrong then they wont know the difference.

There isnt much difference to an inexperienced mind from seeing them together for a picture and housing them together............

[jaleely]

I know. i didn't know how to express that. I just didn't want trollbie to feel bad or pounced upon.

i guess that's what i meant by emphasizing that you really have to know your animals, know the situation, and be very confident in the safety of it. I don't think just anyone or any animal should be put together, for sure.

[Aaron_S]

Oh please they were probably together for no more than 30 seconds.

Also does that snake look like it is in feeding mode?

Takes just that lizard to step in the snakes eye and it's gone...

[rmfsnakes32]

I still think its cute I of course would not do that with my milksnake he is a jerk to everyone lol

[Trollbie]

Penelope is the one who came under his arm like that and then they both just sat there and stared at me lol. They weren't forced to pose for the photo, they just did it. They actually show no interest in each other. But like Jaleely said, I know them both enough... But to be honest, I believe that it doesn't make much difference if it's a snake and a gecko or 2 dogs. No animal is fully predictable.

I do realize that this picture could send the wrong message, so I will ask Wayne or Alessia to put a disclaimer in the original post.

[alessia55]

I do realize that this picture could send the wrong message, so I will ask Wayne or Alessia to put a disclaimer in the original post.

PM me with what ou think that disclaimer should be and I'll put it in there for you.

[StudentoReptile]

THe problem i see with this is that WE may know it shouldnt be done, and what we do in our own homes with our own animals is our own business but when it is posted on a very well respected forum like this then inexperienced people see it, and unless we point out it is wrong then they wont know the difference.

There isnt much difference to an inexperienced mind from seeing them together for a picture and housing them together............

Ditto.

It doesn't matter what if the disclaimer is in 72 pt font, bold, underlined bright red text. Newbies will ignore it, and always see photos like this and think its okay. :no:

[DragonsEye]

On the one hand it is indeed a cute picture, Trollbie. On the other, I have to side with Rob -- just not worth the risk. I must admit my first reaction was "Oh sh>>! I hope no one who sees this tries it out! A fast track to a dead gecko."

It doesn't matter what if the disclaimer is in 72 pt font, bold, underlined bright red text. Newbies will ignore it, and always see photos like this and think its okay.

Unfortunately, I think we all have met people who prove the truth of that statement.

[shaunyboy]

Oh please they were probably together for no more than 30 seconds.

Also does that snake look like it is in feeding mode?

a snake needs a lot less than 30 seconds,should it decide to strike ;)

personally i would not have took the chance

to the op
not having a go at you,merely saying i would'nt have done it pal

that said,it is a cute picture:)

cheers shaun

[exwizard]

Ok I'm not arguing with anyone here and the last thing I want is drama. Trollbie already knows all the implications of that pic. Further harping on her takes on more of a sense of condemnation than anything that could be learned from this in a constructive way. It is clear from this going back and forth that this is not the thing to do and I think this should stop now or risk further unnecessary condemnation. That is my opinion on this matter.

[StudentoReptile]

"I know its wrong, but it makes a cute photo so I'm going to do it anyway. Then I'm going to post the photo on one of the most popular and respectable herp forums out there, and hope no one bites me a new one."

I'm sorry, but this is basically the mentality I'm seeing, and nothing personal, but I don't see the rationality behind it. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. I know it seems like everyone is coming down the OP as an attack, but we're just trying to emphasize the gravity of the mistake made. In the blink of an eye, or the time it takes to snap your fingers, or in the span it takes you to say "one Mississippi," that snake could have struck and coiled around that gecko. No photo, no matter how cute it is, is worth the risk IMHO.

Its one thing if you accidentally left a tub open and snake escaped. Oops. We've all had "oops' moments. Its not like they were cleaning out enclosures and accidentally put two animals in the same container. This was a deliberate action where the OP put a predator that naturally preys upon lizards in close proximity with a small lizard.

[exwizard]

She already knows. We all know. Let's beat on this dead horse some more and bring even further condemnation why don't we?! Everyone knows Including Trollbie the gravity of it all.

[shaunyboy]

She already knows. We all know. Let's beat on this dead horse some more and bring even further condemnation why don't we?! Everyone knows Including Trollbie the gravity of it all.

i would'nt say it's condemnation,more forum members concern,regarding newbie's taking it the wrong way,also the lizards safety

i can't see anyone being cheeky/horrible,most folk agreed it was a cute picture,at the same time voiced concern

imo it's just folk giving their vauled opinions on the picture Trollbie posted

i'm NOT having a go,or trying to keep it going,merely pointing out i feel condemnations a bit harsh

cheers shaun:)

[exwizard]

After the fact, it is Condemnation, especially when everyone already knows all the implications of the pic. Theres nothing that can be done about it now except condemn Trollbie even more or delete the thread. Short of that, shes already expressed regret. Theres nothing else she can do. This is why this needs to stop and stop now.

[sherriwat]

thats a really super cute picture. loving it as that a pics not situation....

now i doo what your talking bout though everyone harping on her after she's admitted yes this was bad yes i made a mistake yes i regret it is exactly what turns people off from asking questions on here wanting educated people to help them.
for example this picture and my ted. i posted an update on ted. he techniqually my bf's snake. my bf hates plastic tote and absolutely refuses that as the best course for ted. so teds humidity is a constent battle ted has not yet had a perfect shed. i admitted this but had said i was pleased his sheds had gotten better rather than flaking off in small pieces it now comes off in 2 to 3 large pieces. but i am made to feel liek an absolutely horrible snake owner because i dont do better even though i do everything suggested. wet towl over top misting big water bowl baths ect.. i really cringe when i have questions because i dont want to ask and get harped at or post pictures and get harped at. yes tell me what im doing is wrong explain why but dont go on and on about it to the point that i feel like a bad snake owner from lack of information.
i also understand that theres alot of people come on here and ask questions and they just dont listen and its like banging your head off a keyboard. ok i get that thats frustrating but you know what just cause their being idiots doesnt mean people who actually care arent reading their question and your folks answers and learning something. though with some respondses and attitudes that come through sometimes they might feel apprehensions about asking questions themselves and being made to feel stupid or guilty. than in the end it's that persons snake or lizard that suffers from their fear of asked educated people that are suppost to be there for support and help.
and im just using my self as an example because i dont want to point fingers to other posts, but iv read so many threads from beginners that i though man that person just got chewed right out even after they'v agreed to do whatever changes has been suggested to them and been completely open to advice.
sorry i just had to post this because really guys this is a bit extreme especially to someone who already said she regretted taking the pics and posting it and understood the consequances.

[Trollbie]

I don't regret taking the picture. And I don't regret posting it. I should have thought about it more before I posted it, but I don't regret it. I agree with everyone who says it may send the wrong message to newbies, but like Jaleely said, I've been around my animals long enough to be able to read their body language. Of course there is a chance that they could do something out of the ordinary, but I actually trust Penelope more than I trust my parents Jack Russel terrier...

[exwizard]

I don't regret taking the picture. And I don't regret posting it. I should have thought about it more before I posted it, but I don't regret it. I agree with everyone who says it may send the wrong message to newbies, but like Jaleely said, I've been around my animals long enough to be able to read their body language. Of course there is a chance that they could do something out of the ordinary, but I actually trust Penelope more than I trust my parents Jack Russel terrier...Well I trust your judgment and they are your pets and no one knows them better than you do.

[StudentoReptile]

I've been around my animals long enough to be able to read their body language. Of course there is a chance that they could do something out of the ordinary, but I actually trust Penelope more than I trust my parents Jack Russel terrier...

I'm curious what superior behavioral cues a snake will give you that a canine does not.

Dogs have some capacity of facial expression, which includes muscle movements of the lips, brow, ears, etc. not to mention their hair may stand on end and any sounds they may make, in addition to body posture.

In comparison, a snake has...only body posture?

I can tell you from experience that unless the snake is completely straightened out in a perfect line with no curves, it is capable of biting/striking. It doesn't have to be "hissing" or coiled up in a perfect S-position with the head and neck raised off the ground in order to strike at something. So I don't know what "body language" you think has to take place in order to feel good about the situation, but I assure, the snake doesn't have to offer it. Its practically like saying all rattlesnakes rattle when approached. Its hogwash.

[Trollbie]

I'm curious what superior behavioral cues a snake will give you that a canine does not.

Dogs have some capacity of facial expression, which includes muscle movements of the lips, brow, ears, etc. not to mention their hair may stand on end and any sounds they may make, in addition to body posture.

In comparison, a snake has...only body posture?

I can tell you from experience that unless the snake is completely straightened out in a perfect line with no curves, it is capable of biting/striking. It doesn't have to be "hissing" or coiled up in a perfect S-position with the head and neck raised off the ground in order to strike at something. So I don't know what "body language" you think has to take place in order to feel good about the situation, but I assure, the snake doesn't have to offer it. Its practically like saying all rattlesnakes rattle when approached. Its hogwash.

The snake just never strikes. She doesn't strike at me, she doesn't strike at her prey, and she does not strike when she's startled. She's also not interested in food when someone is around her cage or when she's out of her cage. And she showed absolutely no interest in the gecko any of the times they "met"... As far as body language, she rattles her tail or tenses up. She was just being her curious self around the gecko.

My mom's dog, on ther other hand, holds still and acts like nothing is wrong and then suddenly she snaps out of nowhere. She doesn't growl or show her teeth or anything. No warning at all.

[Trollbie]

But I admit, I can't read my boa as well and therefore I would not trust her near the gecko.

[alessia55]

My mom's dog, on ther other hand, holds still and acts like nothing is wrong and then suddenly she snaps out of nowhere. She doesn't growl or show her teeth or anything. No warning at all.

Correction: you just don't know how to read those warning signs. There is always a warning; it's not always the typical growl/showing of teeth before a bite. ;)

[Trollbie]

Correction: you just don't know how to read those warning signs. There is always a warning; it's not always the typical growl/showing of teeth before a bite. ;)

You need to meet this dog. She gives me and my parents warnings. She does not give strangers warnings.

[alessia55]

You need to meet this dog. She gives me and my parents warnings. She does not give strangers warnings.

Take a video and send it to me. I'm curious.

[Trollbie]

Take a video and send it to me. I'm curious.

Sure, next time I drive up to their house.

[Eddie]

Asome pic:D

[StudentoReptile]

Well, I have nothing else to contribute to this thread other than this. I will admit that the ramifications of this actions are not that dire. After all, the very worst that could happen is that one day, your snake will have a very expensive meal, and you will be down one pet gecko. Your house, your animals; if you're okay with the risk of that scenario taking place, then so be it. Its not as if you are parading down at the local mall with a python around your neck, or dumping non-native herps in the ecosystems of your surrounding areas.

There's always a "first time" for everything.;)

Bottom line: you can never 100% predict what any animal will do at any given time, whether its a snake, dog, horse, bird, etc. All it takes is one second. So you can continue taking photos of your animals as your wish; obviously, no one can stop you. But don't delude yourself into believing you are in control of the situation...because quite simply, you are not.

[exwizard]

Ok I admit to being a bit conflicted. I really want see this dead horse buried once and for all. What to do. We all know your opinion and it's a reasonable one. Now that you've stated it can you please let this go? We really need to move on to something productive.

[Trollbie]

Well, I have nothing else to contribute to this thread other than this. I will admit that the ramifications of this actions are not that dire. After all, the very worst that could happen is that one day, your snake will have a very expensive meal, and you will be down one pet gecko. Your house, your animals; if you're okay with the risk of that scenario taking place, then so be it. Its not as if you are parading down at the local mall with a python around your neck, or dumping non-native herps in the ecosystems of your surrounding areas.

There's always a "first time" for everything.;)

Bottom line: you can never 100% predict what any animal will do at any given time, whether its a snake, dog, horse, bird, etc. All it takes is one second. So you can continue taking photos of your animals as your wish; obviously, no one can stop you. But don't delude yourself into believing you are in control of the situation...because quite simply, you are not.

I know I'm not in control. And like you said, you can never fully predict what any animal will do. But I don't see any one getting lectured on taking a picture of their dog and cat.

But I'm not encouraging anyone to do this and I'm not claiming that's it's okay to do this. To me this is kind of like when someone tries to tell me that feeding pre-killed is bad for my snakes or that I shouldn use newspaper or that fake grass carpet thing instead of aspen bedding for my milksnake that loves bury herself. What works for some people and their pets may not work for others.

And it's not like my pets all hang out together all the time. I took this picture when my boyfriend came home for the weekend from Army AIT. So this was a special occasion since my babies were meeting their "daddy" for the first time. The times my pets were in contact with each other was when each animal was held by a different person...

I get what everyone is saying... And I knew it before I even posted this thread. I don't mind that it was pointed out because I do agree that newbies should be aware of the consequences. I don't think I did anything wrong, but if anything bad happens, I'll gladly own up to my mistakes...

[Trollbie]

Ok I admit to being a bit conflicted. I really want see this dead horse buried once and for all. What to do. We all know your opinion and it's a reasonable one. Now that you've stated it can you please let this go? We really need to move on to something productive.

I'm not sure if this is directed at me or someone else, but I agree either way. I thought this thread was done yeaterday

[exwizard]

I directed it to the Reptile Student. I'm really sorry you had to be subjected to all of this continued abuse Trollbie. You're right. This should've all been done and over with yesterday.

[Lankyrob]

I know I'm not in control. And like you said, you can never fully predict what any animal will do. But I don't see any one getting lectured on taking a picture of their dog and cat.

But I'm not encouraging anyone to do this and I'm not claiming that's it's okay to do this. To me this is kind of like when someone tries to tell me that feeding pre-killed is bad for my snakes or that I shouldn use newspaper or that fake grass carpet thing instead of aspen bedding for my milksnake that loves bury herself. What works for some people and their pets may not work for others.

And it's not like my pets all hang out together all the time. I took this picture when my boyfriend came home for the weekend from Army AIT. So this was a special occasion since my babies were meeting their "daddy" for the first time. The times my pets were in contact with each other was when each animal was held by a different person...

I get what everyone is saying... And I knew it before I even posted this thread. I don't mind that it was pointed out because I do agree that newbies should be aware of the consequences. I don't think I did anything wrong, but if anything bad happens, I'll gladly own up to my mistakes...

Comparing Putting two undomesticated animals together with having two domesticated animals together is ridiculous. Whilst we all know dogs that hate cats and cats that hate dogs they have lived together for hundreds of years and are both tame creatures, nothing like reptiles in any way.

[exwizard]

Comparing Putting two undomesticated animals together with having two domesticated animals together is ridiculous. Whilst we all know dogs that hate cats and cats that hate dogs they have lived together for hundreds of years and are both tame creatures, nothing like reptiles in any way.
Trollbie, as long as you continue to try to explain yourself to people who won't listen, you will continue to be subjected to more condemnation and abuse. It's sad but true. Just a heads up. That's all.

[Trollbie]

Comparing Putting two undomesticated animals together with having two domesticated animals together is ridiculous. Whilst we all know dogs that hate cats and cats that hate dogs they have lived together for hundreds of years and are both tame creatures, nothing like reptiles in any way.

Perhaps. Until something happens... ;)

My friend has 2 dogs who got along great for years. Until the bigger one almost killed the small one by biting it and causing it major brain damage...

[Trollbie]

Trollbie, as long as you continue to try to explain yourself to people who won't listen, you will continue to be subjected to more condemnation and abuse. It's sad but true. Just a heads up. That's all.

Yup... Thank you!

[Lankyrob]

Perhaps. Until something happens... ;)

My friend has 2 dogs who got along great for years. Until the bigger one almost killed the small one by biting it and causing it major brain damage...

How did it happen? Were they unsupervised?