Day/Night Cycle

[Wildside]

I've been thinking about this a lot and can't quite get my thoughts organized on this, so I thought I'd see what you guys have to say...

Since I joined this forum I've been paying better attention to my husbandry practices. When it comes to the Day/Night cycle mine are getting the full service. By that I mean they have their light/dark photoperiod but they're also getting an ambient temp drop by 5 to 10 degrees. What I'm wondering is if this could be beneficial to the animals as it's closer to what happens in nature? Does anyone else here practice this? While these are the questions at the forefront of my mind I'll accept any sort of feedback on this particular subject.

[snake man12]

I do the same thing as you.

[Wildside]

I do the same thing as you.


Have you noticed whether or not it has been more beneficial than having a stable ambient 24/7?

[Jlassiter]

I think this is the best way to keep captives along with many humidity, temperature and combinations of each options to allow the captive to choose.

Dry/hot
Dry/cool
Damp/hot
Damp/cool
All at the same time.

Along with natural light and dark.....

[CDN_Blood]

Mine get a drop in temperature at night - always have, always will. It's wholly unnatural to have them at constant temperatures or give them constant light. Nature is all about balance - sunny, hot days are balanced with darker, cooler nights :cool:

[Lankyrob]

Mine get day night schedule for light and humidity but i do keep constant temps.

[Gungirl]

I keep my temps the same. They can change from hot to cold side as needed,I feel as if my temps are fine for both situations. The only change mine get is the natural light through the windows.

[shaunyboy]

i give day and night light cycle,and night time temperature drops of 10 to 12 F.

i also give seasonal temperature drops,acording to which season i'm replicating (i also reduce or increase feeding according to the season)

imo the most important temperature and light cycles would be through brumation,this helps to create viable follicles and sperm

cheers shaun

[Lankyrob]

I was gonna ask those that provide heat drops are you all breeding?? I was told that as i never intend to breed drops in temperature were completely unnecessary :)

[shaunyboy]

I was gonna ask those that provide heat drops are you all breeding?? I was told that as i never intend to breed drops in temperature were completely unnecessary :)

i have seen this point debated on other forums (can't remember where :o ) and folk agreed that.....

if your not planning on breeding,then consistant temperatures 24/7 did no harm what so ever

cheers shaun

[Wildside]

There are so many opinions on the subject of ambient temp cycles. Some of the most well known boa breeders keep temps constant throughout the year and don't believe in offering that ambient cycle.

For those of you who do breed and are offering the ambient cycle, have you noticed any differences in the offspring compared to those who keep temps constant?

[Jlassiter]

With colubrids I do...
I don't do boas....sorry

[Wildside]

With colubrids I do...
I don't do boas....sorry

It doesn't matter what species. What differences have you noticed? I'm very curious because my recent change in practice has put all of my animals on a higher level of thriving. Unfortunately I don't have enough snake breeding experience under my belt to be able to determine if this will effect my prospective outcome for the season.

[jarich]

Many of our animals come from places where there isnt a large gradient in temperatures between night and day though. Rainforest temperatures during much of the year stay within a couple degrees of each other, day or night, especially when you are talking down on the ground level. All depends on the animal I think.

[shaunyboy]

It doesn't matter what species. What differences have you noticed? I'm very curious because my recent change in practice has put all of my animals on a higher level of thriving. Unfortunately I don't have enough snake breeding experience under my belt to be able to determine if this will effect my prospective outcome for the season.


imo all you have to get correct is their brumation,so viable follicles and sperm are produced

cheers shaun

[CDN_Blood]

Dropping temperatures at night is not about breeding. It's about giving the animals a more natural life in captivity and that's always been my approach. Breeding has never been on my mind with so many snakes out there already needing homes.

[shaunyboy]

Dropping temperatures at night is not about breeding. It's about giving the animals a more natural life in captivity and that's always been my approach. Breeding has never been on my mind with so many snakes out there already needing homes.

imo,if you don't drop your temps for breeding/brumation,you stand a good chance of getting poor results

although dropping the temperatures to brumate,gives the snake a better chance of producing viable follicles and sperm,my temp drops are NOT all to do with breeding

i try and give my carpets as natural an existance possible,considering they are all kept in little wooden boxes

so i replicate the 4 seasons day and night,whenever possible

take my diamonds for instance...

over the period of 12 months,depending on which season it is,they will have temperature differences ranging from 55F to 90f (winter)

cheers shaun

[Wildside]

I'm just talking about the ambient day/night cycle here. It doesn't matter what part of the world you're in there is gonna be an ambient drop at night. No sun = less heat. I'm wondering if this may be healthier for a gravid female and her babies than going with the "Incubate the whole snake" theory.

[shaunyboy]

I'm just talking about the ambient day/night cycle here. It doesn't matter what part of the world you're in there is gonna be an ambient drop at night. No sun = less heat. I'm wondering if this may be healthier for a gravid female and her babies than going with the "Incubate the whole snake" theory.

re lights
i use 2.0 uvb natural daylight flurescent tubes on timers (length of time,according to the season),along with any natural light coming in the window

imo uvb is important to reptiles

cheers shaun

[Aaron_S]

Dropping temperatures at night is not about breeding. It's about giving the animals a more natural life in captivity and that's always been my approach. Breeding has never been on my mind with so many snakes out there already needing homes.

It's ok. We all know keeping animals in confined spaces, no dirt, no predators, no real prey, no rainy season is ALL natural.

There's no point in worrying about a night drop every night as I think it could lead to an RI for no real reason. I've only ever dropped temps in all my years of keeping and never had an issue. I don't think it's necessary.

[shaunyboy]

It's ok. We all know keeping animals in confined spaces, no dirt, no predators, no real prey, no rainy season is ALL natural.

There's no point in worrying about a night drop every night as I think it could lead to an RI for no real reason. I've only ever dropped temps in all my years of keeping and never had an issue. I don't think it's necessary.

i think you missed a word/words out in your 2nd last sentence Aaron ;) or my fuddled brains missing something :yes:

i agree on there being NOTHING natural about keeping snakes in tanks

re RI's
imo thats a good point mate

i do have some carpets who started showing mild respiritory symptoms when given night time drops...

i just didn't drop the temps as low for those snakes

cheers shaun

[Wildside]

This is not a purposeful drop, just something that I noticed happens in the room. I haven't had problems with RI in about four years.

[shaunyboy]

your correct in sayin at night the ambient temps in a tank drops a little

i honestly don't think it makes all that much of a difference to the snake

cheers shaun

[Jlassiter]

It doesn't matter what species. What differences have you noticed? I'm very curious because my recent change in practice has put all of my animals on a higher level of thriving. Unfortunately I don't have enough snake breeding experience under my belt to be able to determine if this will effect my prospective outcome for the season.


What I provide is the highest thermal and humidity gradient possible...
If I could get 0% to 100% humidity and 50F to 100F temperature gradients I would.....

But with a large collection of over 150 snakes I must make do with what I have readily available and financially feasible. I have to mention I live in an area where it is very hot and very humid....South Texas. Arizona's 119F and dry has nothing on our 100F temps with 80+% humidity....lol

I cool my snake room to 70F to 74F with a window unit......This provides the cool temps cold blooded reptiles (our snakes) need to conserve energy. During the day it does okay in my WELL insulated snake room. It holds the temps below 80F in the day when it is 100F outside. At night the room temps hit 70F. I also provide a hot area with back heat (Cable). This hot area is typically less than 90F but I want it to be around 90F without heating the entire enclosure. This is the toughest thing to achieve. To achieve the best temperature gradient I use deep aspen. The aspen acts as insulation. It isolates the heat to the back of the enclosure and allows the cool air conditioned air to keep the temps cool on the other side of their enclosure.

Okay....what has this done for my snakes and for me as a snake keeper first...

Now I know when to feed instead of feeding every Sunday evening after the 6 o'clock news like most breeders do.....lol I know boas and pythons can be overfed but if kept correctly colubrids cannot. They will refuse prey when full. I feed my kings when they are on the cool side conserving.....

I have learned to understand why my snakes do what they do. They aren't just snakes sitting in a box that do nothing....Like I've seen my snakes act prior to refining my husbandry techniques over the past 20 years. They actually hunt for food at night. Hunt for mates during breeding season. Find the right temps to metabolize. Find the humidity when needed to shed or when they are dehydrating.

With this set up along with a humidity gradient it has been easier for me to get stubborn mexican and montane hatchling kings to feed. I have not seen these montane snakes "shutdown" for the winter like most do, but I do force a brumation on them for breeding purposes.

I've also seen my snakes grow to breeding size in as little as 18 months and no, this is not from power-feeding. It is from feeding them correctly as growing snake use caloric intake to grow and those small meals they eat are metabolized quickly. These young snakes WANT to eat twice and sometimes 3 times a week, typically every 3 days or so. Adult snakes eat larger prey that takes longer to digest and will only want to eat once a week give or take a few days here and there. They do not use all the caloric intake to grow. They use it to sustain.

In years past I've seen double clutches come easier, even when I'm not trying to double clutch a female. It's all about calories and how they use them at certain times in a year and throughout their life. If one sets up with the correct gradients they'll see this....
And...I have many kings that are in their teens, some are over 20 and one is over 30.
This is a reflection on thriving in captivity. I beleive most of the information that say powerfeeding and breeding snakes at a yound age will shorten their life span, stunt their growth and cause egg binding is false. If husbandry is correct none of this happens. These snakes know what they are doing and have been doing it long before we came along and took them out of the wild and made them captives. It is our job to provide them with all the possible options we can think of and let them choose.

Again...Most of my experience is with colubrids. But I don't see why options would not be benificial to any reptile. Letting them choose teaches us what to provide......

[Wildside]

Thank You so much John. Your post help me figure out what it is exactly that I'm trying to ask.

Would a gravid female who is able to conserve more energy because of a 10 degree ambient drop in the day/night cycle remain healthier than the ones who are kept at a constant? Is it possible that because of the conserved energy she could produce more babies and less slugs?

[Jlassiter]

Thank You so much John. Your post help me figure out what it is exactly that I'm trying to ask.

Would a gravid female who is able to conserve more energy because of a 10 degree ambient drop in the day/night cycle remain healthier than the ones who are kept at a constant? Is it possible that because of the conserved energy she could produce more babies and less slugs?


Actually if given the temperature gradient a gravid female will go where she knows is best for her eggs/babies.

A female producing follicles relies on calories to do so. So if fed heavier prior to ovulation the outcome is always better. Then...If a female that has been bred and surely is gravid starts refusing meals it should be offered smaller meals as those calories help with fertilization and overall health of the snake, her eggs or her babies.

Then the next topic is nesting...If provided a correct nest they will not hold onto their eggs (with colubrids) for a long time. Typically the caresheets say they will lay their eggs around 10 days after having their pre egg laying shed. If provided a correct nest they will lay them in less than 5. All the time being fed small meals to keep her healthy. Many keepers stop feeding a gravid female once she turns down her normal sized prey. Then they wait for weeks for her to shed then another 10 days or so to lay eggs...that's almost a month with no food while those eggs are taking a toll on her. So, alot of breeders have skinny snakes that try to lay eggs and get egg bound and/or lay slugs.....Many others know how to provide for a gravid snake and never have this problem.