sick snake?

[SWLewis]

I purchased a ball python from Petsmart nearly 2 months ago for my son's birthday. The snake was near 1 month old at the time of purchase. The snake has not eaten. We've tried small fuzzy's, pinky mice, and even crickets. Not even interested. We have the snake in a nice 55 gal. terrarium with all the accessories. Day time temp. 90*; 50% humidity. Now the snake is flopping his head around, rolling upside down and even lying with his head upside down. My son is so afraid the snake is dying. Can anyone help me with some answers and suggestions? We're at critical stage here. Thanks,.... anyone?

[alessia55]

(Moving this thread to the ball python section)

Welcome to the forum! Please read our sSNAKESs forum rules. (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/new-forum/53647-read-first-forum-rules.html)

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Ball pythons do not eat crickets. How often were you offering the rodents? How were you offering them? Offering food any more often than every 7-10 days can stress the snake out and make it less likely to eat.

Can you show us a photo of the snake's setup? If the snake is only a few months old, a 55-gallon is too much space. Ball pythons like to feel safe and secure, in tight corners and small hides, with little open space.

How are you heating the enclosure? Is the heat source hooked up to a thermostat?

The humidity should never be below 55%. 65% or higher would be better. If you have one of those tanks with a mesh/wire top, it might be difficult to keep humidity up. You might want to cover 3/4 of the top with a damp towel or something to trap humidity in better.

Have you been handling him? Ball pythons need at least a week or two to settle in and adjust before you attempt handling or feeding. Moving to a new home is stressful in of itself.

The head flopping around and the body rolling upside down, or lying wit his head upside down are symptoms of much concern. You may want to consider seeing a vet who works with reptiles.

Feel free to check out my website at the bottom of my signature.

[snake man12]

Hopefully not IBD.

And no crickets period.

Could be your snake is over heating tremendously when on the heater.

[Slcburm]

I don't want to be rude but who told you ball pythons or any snake for that matter eats crickets? Please tell me it wasn't the petco person

[snake man12]

I don't want to be rude but who told you ball pythons or any snake for that matter eats crickets? Please tell me it wasn't the petco person

Spot on....

[jaleely]

I would suggest a vet as well.
Usually any type of upside down action, or head flopping, is a sign of something called IBD...Inclusion body disease. A retrovirus that affects the snakes neurologically. There isn't a cure, unfortunately.
And, I have seen it at petsmart stores before, again, unfortunately.

If the snake is already to that point, it may not last long : (
Also, if it is doing that in response to an overheating incident, it will also not last very long, as it's affected it's brain.
Kind of harsh to read, and i'm so sorry!
I fear the IBD more than the overheating.

: ( Let us know what happens.

[Kaetlinv]

guys I don't think they were told that BP's eat crickets - I believe they panicked and were trying to feed the poor thing whatever they could in an attempt to get it to eat, and weren't sure what it would take. However, i'm not the OP and I may be wrong - just saying, don't jump to conclusions. :)

Some snakes eat small invertebrates, just not pythons.

I hope you can figure out what is wrong with your little BP, SWlewis, I'm sure it's horrifying to watch him suffer. :( Best of luck that he gets better! (also sorry that I don't have advice to offer... I'm letting the experts handle this one. )

[snake man12]

If he has IBD you may need to put him/her down.:(

[SWLewis]

Yes I'm new at this. It was a gift for my son who just thinks it's the coolest thing. Yes the store told me try cricket. I'm almost positive I haven't overheated it. I bought all this set up,...including a thermostat, and timer, etc. We're all sad over here. Thank y'all.

[snake man12]

I would put it down:(

Full cranial destruction with a hammer or a rock.:(:(

[Wildside]

Yes I'm new at this. It was a gift for my son who just thinks it's the coolest thing. Yes the store told me try cricket. I'm almost positive I haven't overheated it. I bought all this set up,...including a thermostat, and timer, etc. We're all sad over here. Thank y'all.


I'm sorry to hear this. I told a story earlier today of that happening in my Pet Shop. At this point the best thing you can do is return the snake to Petco while still alive. That behavior is obviously not normal and they cannot argue with what's right in front of their face. Get your money back and purchase from a seasoned breeder.

[alessia55]

I'm sorry to hear this. I told a story earlier today of that happening in my Pet Shop. At this point the best thing you can do is return the snake to Petco while still alive. That behavior is obviously not normal and they cannot argue with what's right in front of their face. Get your money back and purchase from a seasoned breeder.

This is what I would do too. Explain to your son that the snake is really sick, and that he has to go back to the store (or euthanize it). Then, if you're all still committed to keeping a ball python, get one from a seasoned breeder.

The symptoms your snake is displaying do remind everyone that it might be IBD. IBD is fatal and cannot be cured or stopped. Personally, since vets are so expensive and most aren't versed at all in proper reptile care, I would return it to the store, or euthanize it, and buy a healthier snake from a qualified breeder.

[thesnakeden]

I would bring the snake back and show pet co. And see if they will bring it to there vet a hurp vet is hard to find and large pet stores have vets they use. However i would never buy an animal like this from a large chane. The animal is shiped all over the us to the stores and by time you get the snake it is already stressed and ball pythons are kinda hard to keep calm in a new home. They are good snakes but sometimes can be picky eaters after you bring him home do not hold him for two weeks let him get use to his new home best of luck hope he gets to a vet!

[thesnakeden]

Hello well i have had ball puthons for a long time i would for one like to say please bring him to the vet i had a baby ball python do this not long ago and he passed away. You can try to bring him back to pet co the big chanes have vets they use also it is hard to find a herp vet on your own. Now buying a snake from a place like pet co is no good because there snakes come form a single breeder so there shiped all over befor they get to the store so there stressed out then you bring them home and dubble the stress. When you bring a ball python home put him in his tank and do not tuch or try and hold him for a week then try and feed him after he eats put him back in his tank and dont hold him for a day after he eats or he can through up the food. Im sorry to here your little guy is sick best of luck and dont give up loving that little guy ball pythons are awesome snakes and a good starter snake ive seen ball pythons is worse condition pull through if you need anything pleese contact me thesnakeden@aol.com my name is eric thank you very much!

[Lankyrob]

Return it to petco and get a full refund, clear out the enclosure and sterilise EVERYTHING before contacting a breeder and getting a new snake. Hope your son is ok with it all :)

[shaunyboy]

too much heat can cause neurological issues to start showing

please check the tanks not too hot

please let us know how things go

cheers shaun

[mykee]

The chances of a ball python having IBD is one in a million. Not a concern.
Overheating is a concern.
Your tank is WAAAAY to big for a baby ball pythons; you're stressing him out with so much space and he's not eating because of it. Limit his space to 1/3 of what you have now. Offer a live hopper mouse. Chances are pretty good that if your additional husbandry is spot on (which, no offense, I doubt), it will eat.
Tell us everything you can about the enclosure, heating, furnishings, etc.
Keep us posted.

[SWLewis]

Well, it happened just as most of you said. I got up early this morning to find our snake dead. I took my son on to school without telling him. I plan on taking it back to the store anyway. Don't expect much, but at least they will know. Now I'm looking for a replacement. My son is just fascinated with snakes so I'm not going stop. I'm open to suggestions: Location Atlanta West Side

[alessia55]

That's unfortunate :(
I'm curious to know what the pet store says.

I've PMd you with ball python breeders.

[snake man12]

They will deny and evade any evidence presented to them.

[Wildside]

They will deny and evade any evidence presented to them.


That's why I suggested taking it in still alive

[Lankyrob]

Sorry for your loss, hope that it doesnt dampen your sons enthusiasm and that you find a nice healthy snake for him to love for the next 25+yrs :)

Personally i would discard any substrate you had in the tank and thoroughly clean the enclosure/decorations and then set the enclosure up and keep it running for a while to check that all the temps/humidity etc are stable before getting another one :)

[rmfsnakes32]

I would not buy from any pet store they are often housed together in un sanitary conditions! I to bought a baby ball python from Petco it lived for 1 week found it dead I am fortunate to have a vet that works with every animal known to man so he did a necropsy he found internal parasites. I then took this info and the snake to Petco and demanded a full refund which I got! I dont know what area you are from but I know several BP breeders that ship all over the US and have a health guarantee on them message if interested thanks good luck

[mykee]

Fact: most large pet stores buy their animals from a wholesaler who gets 500 lot of ball pythons directly from Africa in giant oil drums. Most die, but at under $2 a head, it works out for them. These animals are unhealthy to say the least; internal and external parasites, non-feeding and dehydrated to name a few ailments.
Stay away form buying pet store ball pythons at all costs.

[MoreliAddict]

Fact: most large pet stores buy their animals from a wholesaler who gets 500 lot of ball pythons directly from Africa in giant oil drums. Most die, but at under $2 a head, it works out for them. These animals are unhealthy to say the least; internal and external parasites, non-feeding and dehydrated to name a few ailments.
Stay away form buying pet store ball pythons at all costs.
How come I mostly see tiny babies Balls when I go to Petco?

[iBaman]

Hm...how long can a snake live with internal parasites? And can they test for them while alive? I sometimes wonder if that's why oliver is so small....

[Gungirl]

Hm...how long can a snake live with internal parasites? And can they test for them while alive? I sometimes wonder if that's why oliver is so small....

Bring the vet some poo and get a fecal sample done. That should show any issues with parasites.

[iBaman]

Def going to do this next time he poops. It'd be good to know.

[TheBoogieDown]

I would not buy from any pet store they are often housed together in un sanitary conditions! I to bought a baby ball python from Petco it lived for 1 week found it dead I am fortunate to have a vet that works with every animal known to man so he did a necropsy he found internal parasites. I then took this info and the snake to Petco and demanded a full refund which I got! I dont know what area you are from but I know several BP breeders that ship all over the US and have a health guarantee on them message if interested thanks good luck

Same thing happened with a Rough Green I go from PetCo, he died 15 days after purchase and they adamantly refused to give us a refund because the 14 day return had expired. Unfortunately, we found out later that they hadn't cleaned the tank and stuck another snake in that tank and he died shortly after as well.

As for your story, I'm deeply saddened by this, and I wish you the best of luck finding a new one for your son! I wish my parents would have gotten me a snake when I was younger!

[mykee]

Baby balls that you see at a pet store are so small because they likely haven't eaten at all, and definitely not for the three weeks they were in the oil drum on a boat somehwere in the Atlantic.
Independant, smaller pet stores on the other hand, get their normal and morph ball pythons from breeders like me to sell their stuff at wholesale prices to clear out space in their racks.
These animals are always without parasites; both internal and external and most always are established eaters.

[snake man12]

I just saw a breeder selling some adult spider bp's at a little herp/fish store.

[shaunyboy]

How come I mostly see tiny babies Balls when I go to Petco?

most likely captive farmed mate

imo,just as bad and pretty much the same as wild caught

they to are subject to the same transport that our Mykee described

cheers shaun

[iBaman]

I think I got lucky...the petco I went to knew he hadn't eaten for them yet, so she warned me and said that if he didn't eat to bring him back and they'd exchange him. I went to 6 petcos before I settled on him. This was the only store the snakes didn't try and bite at the hands that went in the cage, the cage was clean, and all the reptiles weren't crammed into a tiny space....do ALL petcos get oil drum babies? Or are there exceptions?

[TheBoogieDown]

I think I got lucky...the petco I went to knew he hadn't eaten for them yet, so she warned me and said that if he didn't eat to bring him back and they'd exchange him. I went to 6 petcos before I settled on him. This was the only store the snakes didn't try and bite at the hands that went in the cage, the cage was clean, and all the reptiles weren't crammed into a tiny space....do ALL petcos get oil drum babies? Or are there exceptions?

Sounds like you did. Sometimes those chain stores have diamond in the rough stores (or employees).

[iBaman]

Good to know. I'm still going to test him, but its good to know there is a chance

[Wildside]

When I re-open my shop I'm thinking of listing it as something other than Pet Shop. Maybe like "Specialty Animal Dealer" or something.

[jaleely]

I'm sorry the snake died! : (
I applaud you for keeping with it though. I wish my parents had let me, or i had thought about snakes when i was a kid. I love them soo much! They are so neat, so cute, just everything : )

Just make sure to sanitize everything this snake had touched.

You could look in the pennysaver usa, or heck, even my local pound has snakes for ten dollars...but then you might get a sick one again.

And mykee i disagree! The petsmart i worked at had once had IBD in all of their snakes. it was horrible.
But, you are right in one thing, the came in and shipped that way.

such pointless cruelty.

to the original poster...you could probably get someone on this forum to send you a good healthy normal ball python, or corn snake...even a sand boa (i think) makes a great pet! i hope your son isn't too disillusioned. Good luck!

[SWLewis]

Thanks to everyone for your support and idea's. I returned the snake(dead) to the "super-store". I got the run around. They didn't do anything for me. THey lost a customer for sure. I found a person (actually I knew him but didn't know he had snakes) and bought another ball python. He's already eaten 3 fuzz'y but still only about 3 months old. I completely emptied my tank and sanitized everything. The new snakes is bigger, looks "cool" (according to my son-I'm happy). I was sad about the other but we had a "talk" and he understands. I'm real proud of him. I've got the temp. and humidity right. The snake seems right at home. Thanks again to everyone. I'll post some pictures soon.

Steve

[mykee]

"And mykee i disagree! The petsmart i worked at had once had IBD in all of their snakes. it was horrible."
Determined by a vet via necropsy?

[shaunyboy]

Determined by a vet via necropsy?

IBD is species selective is it not ?

boa's are asymptomatic carriers

carpet pythons die within 4 weeks of being exposed (i only keep carpets as you know,so only researched carpets and IBD)

cheers shaun

[mykee]

Yes Sir Shaun; boas can carry it their entire lives without exhibiting outward symptoms (asymptomatic carriers) while pythons generally get it and are dead within the month. It is SO rare though. Viruses in reptiles are something you read about, but they rarely infect collections. I can count on my two hands in 15 years of collections that have acquired viruses.

[StudentoReptile]

When I re-open my shop I'm thinking of listing it as something other than Pet Shop. Maybe like "Specialty Animal Dealer" or something.

Excellent idea. Avoid terms like "pet" and "store" altogether.

Maybe something like Rainforest Exotics & Specialties.

[mykee]

Shaun, I'll add that back in the day, when all there was were wild caught ball pythons and they were even more disposable than they are now, boa keepers used to toss a ball python into their newly acquired boas enclosures to see if the boas had IBD. If the balls were dead in a month; confirmed.

[Rogue628]

Thanks to everyone for your support and idea's. I returned the snake(dead) to the "super-store". I got the run around. They didn't do anything for me. THey lost a customer for sure. I found a person (actually I knew him but didn't know he had snakes) and bought another ball python. He's already eaten 3 fuzz'y but still only about 3 months old. I completely emptied my tank and sanitized everything. The new snakes is bigger, looks "cool" (according to my son-I'm happy). I was sad about the other but we had a "talk" and he understands. I'm real proud of him. I've got the temp. and humidity right. The snake seems right at home. Thanks again to everyone. I'll post some pictures soon.

Steve


I'm glad to hear you found your son another one and not from a pet store. I'm really glad your son took the talk so well and is happy with his new pet. As far as it eating, remember royals can be finicky eaters, but as long as the animal isn't losing any weight, I wouldn't worry. I wouldn't handle him except to clean his cage and make it brief....until he eats for you. They're easily stressed and sometimes won't eat until they feel safe in their new home.

If you have any other questions or concerns, please ask! We're here to help :)

Can't wait to see pics of the wee one! :D

[Aaron_S]

Stop feeding fuzzies. Feed it "hoppers" or sub-adult mice.

[shaunyboy]

Shaun, I'll add that back in the day, when all there was were wild caught ball pythons and they were even more disposable than they are now, boa keepers used to toss a ball python into their newly acquired boas enclosures to see if the boas had IBD. If the balls were dead in a month; confirmed.

i've heard of importers,tossing a carpet python into a tank full of boa's,then if the carpet was alive 4 weeks later.....

the boa's were deemed not to have IBD

over here on UK forums,everytime a snake looks upwards,theres a bloody IBD thread...

they seem to forget,that star gazing is one of the latter symptoms to show up in IBD cases

threads like.....

my snake keeps looking upwards...dooes it have IBD

pure scare mogering of the highest level :hmm:

then all the so called IBD experts crawl out from under a rock :laugh:
spouting a load of bollocks about the op's snake :sad::wacky:

cheers shaun

[Aaron_S]

I'll just be the echo to what Shaun and Mykee both have said.

It's scare mongering. Yes, IBD DOES exist but does that mean every time a snake looks up we start crying to cull collections? No.

I've been around reptile forums for years in North America and I can literally count on one hand the amount of collection wiping viruses I have read about.

[shaunyboy]

I'll just be the echo to what Shaun and Mykee both have said.

It's scare mongering. Yes, IBD DOES exist but does that mean every time a snake looks up we start crying to cull collections? No.

I've been around reptile forums for years in North America and I can literally count on one hand the amount of collection wiping viruses I have read about.


i'm amazed at the amount of people on UK forums who throw up an IBD thread,if their poor snake looks upwards in any way

thanfully IBD and Paramyxovirus are pretty rare here in the UK

regardless off the amount of silly threads,that get thrown up about them on UK forums

cheers shaun

[StudentoReptile]

Everyone should definitely listen to this podcast if they haven't already: Dr. DeRisi & Mark Stenglein: I.B.D & Beyond - (http://reptilelivingroom.com/2012/08/dr-derisi-mark-stenglein-i-b-d-beyond/)

[mykee]

The neuroses of jumping right to IBD at the slightest inclination of stargazing is akin to someone having a pain in their elbow and immedaitely jumping to thoughts of bone cancer.

[Wildside]

The neuroses of jumping right to IBD at the slightest inclination of stargazing is akin to someone having a pain in their elbow and immedaitely jumping to thoughts of bone cancer.

Yep!

Sometimes snakes look upwards :)

[Aaron_S]

Yep!

Sometimes snakes look upwards :)

That is called "star gazing". Just FYI ;)

[mykee]

Yup, they're waiting for the sky to fall...
LOL!!!

[iBaman]

Ever have those poops you REALLY have to focus on to get out? Maybe they're doing the same thing ;D

(You're welcome for that visual, btw)

[snake man12]

Ever have those poops you REALLY have to focus on to get out? Maybe they're doing the same thing ;D

(You're welcome for that visual, btw)

That was the most disgusting thing I have heard on this forum period.:eek:

[iBaman]

Yeah, I'm pretty good at that xD (nothing phases me. I worked in a hospital, watched an open heart surgery from the head, sucked god knows what out of people's lungs...loved every second of it)

[snake man12]

Yeah, I'm pretty good at that xD (nothing phases me. I worked in a hospital, watched an open heart surgery from the head, sucked god knows what out of people's lungs...loved every second of it)

This comes in second place:eek:

[Aaron_S]

Ever have those poops you REALLY have to focus on to get out? Maybe they're doing the same thing ;D

(You're welcome for that visual, btw)

Women don't poop. How would you know this?!

[iBaman]

well I DO live with a guy. ;D

[Aaron_S]

well I DO live with a guy. ;D

That's unfortunate for the rest of us :P

[iBaman]

bahahaha, he's the only one that can handle the crazy that is me, don't worry ;p

[Aaron_S]

bahahaha, he's the only one that can handle the crazy that is me, don't worry ;p

I doubt that :P

[iBaman]

Bahahhaha, I don't.

[SWLewis]

I never thought a conversation about a sick snake could go so far, but it is entertaining.

[Aaron_S]

I'm awesome like that. You're welcome.

[iBaman]

Oh no you didn't just take credit for my poop post!

[Aaron_S]

Oh no you didn't just take credit for my poop post!

I expanded upon it!

Also, I posted in the thread. That's all it needed in the first place.

[Wildside]

That is called "star gazing". Just FYI ;)

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/015/orly.jpg

[Aaron_S]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/015/orly.jpg

The O RLY? Owl eh?

Don't make me break out the old school face palms...

[Wildside]

The O RLY? Owl eh?

Don't make me break out the old school face palms...

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wrong answer!

The correct response is

http://www.doorsofnight.com/IMOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/o_rly-ya-rly.jpg

[jaleely]

wow. lol

And yes mykee...they had it sent to the vet, and it died a few days later. They did tests, and i finally got it out of the manager that it was "an incurable virus" and the symptoms of the snake were that of IBD.
In the past, they'd had snakes die of respiratory infect. They were shipped to them like that.

This was petsmart, i've seen respiratory infected snakes at the local petco, and really skinny and stuck sheds at the other small petstore in town.
I actually don't even look at the reptile departments anymore, and i disinfect everything brought into my home, from snake supplies to dog food bags...my dog also has a lowered immune system so i don't take chances.

I felt sooo sorry for those snakes. They had housed three baby bally pythons together, that they'd said they had gotten from a different breeder than they normally order from. Wouldn't give me any details on that thought.