Sick Crotalus

[RandyRhoads]

Yesterday I noticed one of my normally healthy NorPacs (other than being a light eater) upside down. I instantly thought it was dead but after a closer look I noticed it "swimming" upside down in the substrate. Almost like it was trying to rub it's nose to shed. I flipped it over and misted it. It seemed ok all day but I just found it doing this again.

What are some diseases that effect Crotalus species? Some sort of neuro issue i'm guessing, should I put it down?

[Gungirl]

I am unaware of medical stuff but I would Quarantine it away from all of you other snakes. Double check your heat source and do a good clean to the viv.

[RandyRhoads]

Done. Thanks. Anyone else?

[RandyRhoads]

Wow. No one. Ok then...

[Gungirl]

Sorry I wish I could be of more help but I am clueless... Have you seen any change in behavior? good or bad..

[shaunyboy]

too much heat as in the snake overheating,can cause neuro issues Randy

other than that,a brain tumour etc,etc

upside down imo sounds like a neuro issue,as you said mate

cheers shaun

[RandyRhoads]

I'm guessing either way it's best to put her down then?

[shaunyboy]

I'm guessing either way it's best to put her down then?

if she's permanantly upside down,then i would,but thats just me

i thought more people,would have had something to say on your thread mate

cheers shaun

[RandyRhoads]

i thought more people,would have had something to say on your thread mate


Uhh yeah me too. :suspicious:Thank you both for taking the time to give what advice you can and at least saying something.....

[Gungirl]

I had a few people in mind that I figured would have been all over this thread... Odd.

what is the hot spot you offer to your crotalus?

[Becky Goings]

I don't have any advice, just wanted to say I'm sorry to hear this.

[RandyRhoads]

I had a few people in mind that I figured would have been all over this thread... Odd.

what is the hot spot you offer to your crotalus?


The light goes off at sundown and hits the low 70's. When I get up in the morning I turn it on and by noonish it climbs to 85. When i'm not home blasting the AC it hits closer to 90, but never above that.

Here's a video of what she looks like. She still tracks me if I move in front of her, but when she's upside down she can't right herself, and sometimes she'll slither upside down.

Sick Crotalus - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDYcdcLb9VQ)

[shaunyboy]

personally i would give her 1 fast hard blow to the head with a lump hammer (imo the most humane way to euthanise a snake)

its like the neurology that controls balance and movement is fried...!!

when you right her and she tracks you she looks fine,so imo her jacobson organ is working,its like she's had a type of stroke ?

cheers shaun

[snake man12]

:sad::sad:That was the saddest video I have ever seen.

[Gungirl]

Ugh that is heart breaking to see. I would do as Shaun said and just wack her one good one. Putting her out of her misery is the humane thing to do.

[RandyRhoads]

Yeah it is sad. Wonder why out of nowhere it just happened after having her for so long. Guess I better go what needs to be done . :(

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/randy666rhoads/oldyeller.jpg

[shaunyboy]

Yeah it is sad. Wonder why out of nowhere it just happened after having her for so long. Guess I better go what needs to be done . :(

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/randy666rhoads/oldyeller.jpg

i'm thinking a stroke ?

cheers shaun

[RandyRhoads]

I never thought of a snake being able to have a stroke, but I guess there's no reason it couldn't. I asked her to close her eyes, hold her hands out and say "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" but all she did was stare at me.

[cobrakeeper05]

Against my better judgement I am forced to agree. Crack it upside the head and kill it instantly. No need for it to suffer any further. I would however take the skin and create some sort of hat band or something to that affect. Not that I condone the inocent killing of snakes just for a hat band but if its going to be dead anyway then whats the problem.

[snake man12]

And if you made a trinket like a band or hat you would always remember it.

[iBaman]

Poor baby...she almost looks like a rubber snake...=[

[Evolieno]

For some reason I can't pull up the video... But then again from the sounds of it, I don't know if I wanna see it :/

[RandyRhoads]

Against my better judgement I am forced to agree. Crack it upside the head and kill it instantly. No need for it to suffer any further. I would however take the skin and create some sort of hat band or something to that affect. Not that I condone the inocent killing of snakes just for a hat band but if its going to be dead anyway then whats the problem.

Oh trust me nothing will go to waste. I will cook the meat and tan the skin. May even try to save the skeleton. Guess you haven't seen my work. http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/members-lounge/92075-taxidermy-thread.html

[shaunyboy]

Randy i would NOT eat the meat of any sick animal,but thats just me mate

the rest of your idea's regards the skeleton is a cool idea :)

cheers shaun

[RandyRhoads]

Yeah I thought about that, but people hunt and eat snakes all the time, and i've never heard to having to look out for anything other than seperating the head and cooking it good. So any issues should be resolved with heat i'd assume. But maybe not plenty of time to figure it out while its' frozen.

[shaunyboy]

Yeah I thought about that, but people hunt and eat snakes all the time, and i've never heard to having to look out for anything other than seperating the head and cooking it good. So any issues should be resolved with heat i'd assume. But maybe not plenty of time to figure it out while its' frozen.

what if you end up only being able to lye face down ;)

sorry mate i could'nt resist that (my bad)

cheers shaun:)

[Will0W783]

Randy, sorry I didn't see this thread earlier...I've been out of commission with an infection from a wisdom tooth extraction. Unfortunately the behavior you described could be IBD/BOID. This virus has been found in crotalids. You need to have the body tested. I'm sorry; it is horrible to lose a pet, but you need to be strong and make sure the rest of your animals will be safe. Until you have the testing done and can confirm that no IBD was present, you need to exercise strict quarantine between every cage- no tools shared between cages before being sterilized in a bleach solution and wear a new pair of rubber gloves for each cage. Best of luck- let's hope it is not anything contagious.

[jaleely]

okay randy, you are So weird. lol
Seriously, taxidermy is one thing, but these critters have been your pets and you want to eat them. Bit of a mental weirdness there bro.
Plus, you shouldn't eat animals you know are sick. Mad cow anyone?

[shaunyboy]

Randy, sorry I didn't see this thread earlier...I've been out of commission with an infection from a wisdom tooth extraction. Unfortunately the behavior you described could be IBD/BOID. This virus has been found in crotalids. You need to have the body tested. I'm sorry; it is horrible to lose a pet, but you need to be strong and make sure the rest of your animals will be safe. Until you have the testing done and can confirm that no IBD was present, you need to exercise strict quarantine between every cage- no tools shared between cages before being sterilized in a bleach solution and wear a new pair of rubber gloves for each cage. Best of luck- let's hope it is not anything contagious.

^^^^^
really good info Kimberley

can they still test for IBD if the bodys been frozen ?

i really hope it's NOT IBD Randy (had no idea they could carry it)

cheers shaun

[RandyRhoads]

Thanks Kim, I had no idea IBD could be present in them. :(
Is this a relatively inexpensive IBD test only or full blown necropsy? And as Shaun said did freezing her mess anything up?

None of the others, even the ones she was housed with show any signs, and i will not cross tools with my burm. I just hope the others aren't infected.

but these critters have been your pets and you want to eat them. .

Plus, you shouldn't eat animals you know are sick. Mad cow anyone?


Hots aren't "pets" remember?

Mad cow? Do you know of a prion that infects snakes? If so please share...
The whole eating thing was more of a quick thought of not wanting to waste anything.

what if you end up only being able to lye face down ;)

sorry mate i could'nt resist that (my bad)

cheers shaun:)
Shaun!:wacky::wacky::bouncy::wacky::wacky:

[RandyRhoads]

Ah bummer. UCD wants $1,600.00 for a necropsy to test for IBD. Guess all I can do is watch the others now and hope?

[Gungirl]

My fingers are crossed for your other snakes to be well...

[Will0W783]

Ugh, $1600 is insane for that test!! When Baby my SD retic passed from neuro issues, it was $350-something for euthanasia, IBD, Ophidian virus, paramyxovirus, and West Nile testing. I wouldn't spend $1600 on it.

I think your best bet is to exercise strict quarantine for a solid 4-6 months. Don't bring any new animals into that room or sell/trade any from your room. I think the chances of it being IBD aren't terribly high, but I would treat it like a suspicious circumstance until you know otherwise. I think if after 3 months, no other snakes have been showing signs of illness, you're probably fine. Another possibility is a parasite overload, if the snake was wild caught, or paramyxovirus. PMV has a very fast onset, and the animal can go from alert and normal to showing neuro signs and dying within a week. It's what my vet thought Baby had, but she tested negative. If it was PMV, it is spread through mucus and air....so the same quarantine procedures for IBD apply, but you'll know in a month. PMV is very quick to spread and short incubation time.

Have you brought any new snakes into the collection recently? Changed bedding types? Feeder source? Any new cleaning chemicals used recently? Have you been using no-pest strips or other pesticides? (just trying to find an answer to help you)


For now, take all the caging, cage furniture and any tools that may have come into contact with that snake and soak them in 10% bleach solution for several hours, then rinse very well and let dry. Anything that is porous, just throw away.

Best of luck, I'm rooting for you and your snakes!

[infernalis]

Ah bummer. UCD wants $1,600.00 for a necropsy to test for IBD. Guess all I can do is watch the others now and hope?

That is why the only tests I ever had done was Chomper. I needed to know where I went wrong.

[jaleely]

I think it's an acceptable "waste'" Randy *lol*
And that price is insane for a necropsy.

I'd search around, maybe there's a place you could ship it to.

and it's just a general rule that you shouldn't injest something that could be contaminated in any way. We don't really understand many of those kinds of things, in the world or reactions. It's better to be safe than sorry.

Plus, just...eww! LOL
It just struck me as EW! LOL

Besides i think you and i have different types of attachment to our animals. I'd definitely see hots as cuddly pets, even if i couldn't cuddle them. I'd want to! that counts, to me lol

[RandyRhoads]

Kim- There's no possible way of me paying that. Even if I felt it that necessary to find out that bad, coming up with that amount of money is not going to happen for many months. No worries on new animals, due to the financial situation I got rid of everything but my burm and Crotalus. I'll do some reading on PMV, I guess on the plus side if it is i'll know shortly.


Wanye- Very understanble situation, if I was in your boat I would have had to have paid for that with Chomper.

Jaleely- Hey! Snakes good, don't knock it till ya try it! The whole pet thing is different between us. My family raised livestock here and there. Chickens and pigs were cuddly "pets" until the time came for bacon n eggs! Just because you liked them as a pet before doesn't mean you can't utilize them fully later on, minus the disease issue.

[Will0W783]

I didn't suggest for a second that you pay that. I think it's ridiculous for them to charge that much on a test. I certainly would not pay that much for it. I had to downsize for financial reasons not too long ago; it sucks and it hurt and it was a terribly hard decision. I understand where you're coming from. I think you can just read and hold tight and keep an eye on your other snakes. I can't believe anyone would charge $1600 for IBD testing...how do they expect anyone at all to afford that???

[Will0W783]

Oh, I definitely would not eat the snake meat. Paramyxovirus can cause problems in humans, like respiratory viruses and even measles.
Paramyxovirus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramyxovirus)

I know you don't want to waste anything, but I wouldn't want you to get sick. :)

[RandyRhoads]

Eek thanks for that. I wonder if cooking kills it or not. Makes me worried about any snake meat taken from the wild. I have no idea about the price, I asked her what kind of people shell out that money for a necropsy, but she seemed to just be a receptionist passing the message from the vet.

[botis]

Sorry for your loss. The thing is, those type of symptoms can arise from a number of issues, from disease to chemical exposure, ect. Short of having a necropsy performed, all anyone can do is speculate. Like everyone else said, practice a strict quarantine procedure for the foreseeable future, and hope for the best. If you haven't frozen it yet, I would try to contact someone in the biology/life science/veteranary medicine department at a local university. They may use it as an educational tool, and perfom a necropsy for free, as a teaching aid.

[jaleely]

The Culinary Herpetologist - Ernest A. Liner - Google Books (http://books.google.com/books?id=KuPdm0uvwV4C&pg=PA357&lpg=PA357&dq=draining+snake+scent+gland&source=bl&ots=CgoaJ6025g&sig=q6jb6MGbru7pmPMBaQuzGwVTN68&hl=en#v=onepage&q=draining%20snake%20scent%20gland&f=false)

[RandyRhoads]

AHAHAHA! Awesome! Right up my alley, i'm buying this as soon as I can, thanks Melissa!

[shaunyboy]

thats very very expensive Randy

i would'nt do the test either at that price

i'll have my fingers crossed its not anything that can spread,to your other snakes mate

all the best shaun

[Wildside]

If it makes you feel any better at all, I had a clutch of BP's that did that, when I had my shop. Every single one of those snakes flipped upside down and died long slow deaths :( There were 4 of them. Two of them I had already sold. The problem came right after they ate. It couldn't have been the food though because none of my other snakes in the shop did this. Just that one shipment of BP's. They had eaten once before ( I never sold anything until it ate for me). I never could find any answers as to what happened either. But none of my other snakes that were exposed to these BP's ever had any problems so I think your collection is probably safe.

[millertime89]

Now 3 snakes that have been in your possession have died from strange symptoms in the past months, I think its time you get the full range of tests done so you know what's floating around your collection.

[millertime89]

btw, its illegal to possess this species in the state of California according to California Code of Regulations Title 14, Section 671 C-7-E which is available here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CCoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnrm.dfg.ca.gov%2FFileHandler.ashx %3FDocumentID%3D28427&ei=ZEk-ULN1iPisAbyIgdAO&usg=AFQjCNE4B6WQKg_LNyUKGhV8lWH0PHKEGw)

[RandyRhoads]

Looks like despite my many phone calls and discussions with fish and game officers regarding capturing and possesing these species, you're right; I have one of the only native species not on the list you can keep. Thanks for being such an uber super trooper and going through all of my state laws to find something i'm doing wrong. You rock my world super hero. Please, next time you feeling like saying anything to me, don't.

Guess I better call DFG tomorrow and ask what they want me to do with this situation, which I can almost guarantee will end in we really don't care, that's the least of our concern, like almost all of the rest of conversations with them.

Edit: Just went back over the law, it's legal to hunt and take this species, just not posses live, provided this document is even current since they changed the law last year. I guess that means by law I have to kill them. Thanks Kyle, good catch.

[Trollbie]

Looks like despite my many phone calls and discussions with fish and game officers regarding capturing and possesing these species, you're right, I have one of the only native species not on the list. Thanks for being such an uber super trooper and going through all of my state laws to find something i'm doing wrong. You rock my world super hero. Please, next time you feeling like saying anything to me, don't.

Guess I better call DFG tomorrow and ask what they want me to do with this situation, which I can almost guarantee will end in we really don't care, that's the least of our concern, like almost all of the rest of conversations with them.

Edit: Just went back over the law, it's legal to hunt and take this species, just not posses live, provided this document is even current since they changed the law last year. I guess that means by law I have to kill them. Thanks Kyle, good catch.

If the law changed after you already had them, you're good regardless right?

[RandyRhoads]

If the law changed after you already had them, you're good regardless right?

According to DFG yes. I haven't seen written copy of this revised edition of the new law they told me about. But according to them you used to be able to posses 2 of each California native species. C oreganus is a native species. The last time I talked to them they said this law was changed and there is now no limit on live possesion. I'll find out tomorrow. Or try, like I said, they rarely seem to care. I have to prod them to find out just so I can be completely legal and legit, regardless if they care or not.:hmm:

[Trollbie]

According to DFG yes. I haven't seen written copy of this revised edition of the new law they told me about. But according to them you used to be able to posses 2 of each California native species. C oreganus is a native species. The last time I talked to them they said this law was changed and there is now no limit on live possesion. I'll find out tomorrow. Or try, like I said, they rarely seem to care. I have to prod them to find out just so I can be completely legal and legit, regardless if they care or not.:hmm:

I'd be surprised if they cared. Especially since you practically live in the wild yourself haha

[shaunyboy]

Looks like despite my many phone calls and discussions with fish and game officers regarding capturing and possesing these species, you're right; I have one of the only native species not on the list you can keep. Thanks for being such an uber super trooper and going through all of my state laws to find something i'm doing wrong. You rock my world super hero. Please, next time you feeling like saying anything to me, don't.

Guess I better call DFG tomorrow and ask what they want me to do with this situation, which I can almost guarantee will end in we really don't care, that's the least of our concern, like almost all of the rest of conversations with them.

Edit: Just went back over the law, it's legal to hunt and take this species, just not posses live, provided this document is even current since they changed the law last year. I guess that means by law I have to kill them. Thanks Kyle, good catch.

^^^^^
thats nuts Randy.....

you can kill em,eat em,just don't dare keep them alive and feed them:shocked:

your laws,are as nuts,as UK laws mate :laugh:

cheers shaun

[millertime89]

Relax, I'm currently dealing with someone local who was illegally keeping snakes and had them confiscated. That law is current from what I found, revision date 4/8/11. I'm trying to keep you from getting in trouble with the law here, if you choose to ignore it, so be it. The web is awash with stories of people who were told one thing by the people who should know the laws but then were prosecuted because the laws actually say something different. Its not like its difficult to find these laws either.

You think I'm annoying? Consider how you look first. Almost mauled by your Burm, breeding sick snakes then selling the mate and the lone surviving offspring who could have contracted whatever killed off the female and possibly infecting their collection considering the male died a few months later while an illegal rattlesnake in your collection dies with similar symptoms. I'm pointing out the way things look, definitely looks like a contagious disease is manifested in your collection, others that I've spoken to agree and think its a virus based on the rapid deterioration of the animals condition after the onset of symptoms.

And yes Shaun, laws in the US make no sense. But its still our responsibility to know them and obey them, something some people in the reptile community fail to comprehend. This one seems to take the cake though. I couldn't believe it myself when I first read it, especially since its listed as a species of least concern.

[RandyRhoads]

You think I'm annoying? Consider how you look first. Almost mauled by your Burm, breeding sick snakes then selling the mate and the lone surviving offspring who could have contracted whatever killed off the female and possibly infecting their collection considering the male died a few months later while an illegal rattlesnake in your collection dies with similar symptoms. I'm pointing out the way things look, definitely looks like a contagious disease is manifested in your collection, others that I've spoken to agree and think its a virus based on the rapid deterioration of the animals condition after .




:laugh::laugh::laugh: Consider how I look first.... Yeah my mistakes don't justify or counteract you're annoying ignorance. I may have made some mistakes (which you're list of mine I find very entertaining) but I've learned from them and corrected them. Whereas what i've seen and heard of you, well that speaks of your CHARACTER.


Almost mauled by my burm? You mean the only one time in two years she actually stuck at me? Sold the mate and lone surviving offspring? Nope gave them away to a good home after explaining the situation. The mate never showed any signs and was in great health when he left. But he had the exact same symptoms as the male that never had symptoms? OK. I'd love to know the others you've spoke to that agree, because quite the opposite has been heard by me and her from others. But your little record of in correct information you seem to be keeping on me is only half the reason I find you to be ignorant and irritating. If you were trying to help and keep me out of a trouble a simple PM might have worked letting me know you found a law that doesn't make sense, letting me try to figure out how to handle it on my own instead of making it known to everyone here.

Even if all had to do was google "CA illegal rattlesnake" and not search massive law documents, the fact you went out of your way to see if I'M legal, well, :blink::blink::blink:

[Trollbie]

Relax, I'm currently dealing with someone local who was illegally keeping snakes and had them confiscated. That law is current from what I found, revision date 4/8/11. I'm trying to keep you from getting in trouble with the law here, if you choose to ignore it, so be it. The web is awash with stories of people who were told one thing by the people who should know the laws but then were prosecuted because the laws actually say something different. Its not like its difficult to find these laws either.

You think I'm annoying? Consider how you look first. Almost mauled by your Burm, breeding sick snakes then selling the mate and the lone surviving offspring who could have contracted whatever killed off the female and possibly infecting their collection considering the male died a few months later while an illegal rattlesnake in your collection dies with similar symptoms. I'm pointing out the way things look, definitely looks like a contagious disease is manifested in your collection, others that I've spoken to agree and think its a virus based on the rapid deterioration of the animals condition after the onset of symptoms.

And yes Shaun, laws in the US make no sense. But its still our responsibility to know them and obey them, something some people in the reptile community fail to comprehend. This one seems to take the cake though. I couldn't believe it myself when I first read it, especially since its listed as a species of least concern.


I was fully aware of the situation when I took the snakes on. So if anything were to happen to my collection, it would be my mistake... Randy was very upfront and honest with me. I know he was being sincere and just wanted his snakes to go to a good home.

Luigi was healthy. Remember I took him to the vet because I thought he may be sick? The vet said she doesn't see anything of concern. When he died, I took him back for a necropsy, and the vet couldn't find any tissue damage or anything that would indicate an illness. He died within 2 days after he started showing symptoms. It happened very fast. As far as I know, most illnesses take longer to kill a snake. The vet said he was in overall good health and appeared properly cared for. I even asked her about IBD and other crazy things and she said that none of Luigi's symptoms matched the typical symptoms of crazy things like IBD. She did not seem too concerned about my other snakes. Anything is possible, but this is a really great exotic clinic with very qualified vets and I have no reason not to trust them. I haven't heard a single negative thing about them yet. Also, from what I read, most crazy illnesses are much more aggressive in juveniles. So if anything was wrong, wouldn't Xena be showing symptoms already? She is 5 months old and a healthy little firecracker.

As far as Xena's mom goes, she was sick and it was obvious. Luigi never showed any of her symptoms. And neither has Xena.

I do not agree that Randy's rattler and Luigi had the same or even similar symptoms. Luigi was very weak, yes, but he was not ever laying upside down or anything. When I flipped him over, he was able to correct himself despite his limpness. Even at the very end. The vet thinks that his heart might have just given out...


I understand and appreciate your concern, and I am watching my other snakes very closely, but after talking to the vet that did the necropsy on Luigi and also to some of the experienced and established members here, I feel fairly confident that Luigi's case, Xena's mom's case, and now the rattler's case are all unrelated. The chance that they are related is pretty small in my opinion, and it would be a very rare case because each of the 3 snakes had very different issues.

Randy is keeping me updated on how the other rattlers are doing and like I said, I'm watching the rest of my snakes closely and using as much caution as I can. I'm prepared to take any or all of them to the vet if anything comes up, and as soon as I have a bit of extra money I'll probably take Xena to get tested since she was in contact with both the mom and Luigi.

Randy has made some mistakes, but who hasn't? He recognized them, owned up to them, and is doing his best to fix them. That's more than most people would do... I personally saw how he keeps his snakes. All the essentials of proper husbandry appeared to be met. He was being very cautious when he showed me his snakes and even prepared me for the worst case scenario if things went wrong while taking the burm out. Based on what I saw, Randy genuinely cares about the well being of his animals and is doing the best he can to care for them properly.

I'm not trying to take sides... Both of you guys are my ssnakess buddies and I respect you both. But because I met Randy in person and saw the conditions his snakes are kept in, and because I'm the one who took the 2 boas and had to watch and deal with Luigi dying (:hmm:), I feel like calling Randy out like this is super unnecessary. Please don't be offended, Kyle, I'm just trying to straighten out facts and tell it from my perspective...

[Trollbie]

But I think both of you should stop with the going back and forth... It's silly and unnecessary!

[infernalis]

But I think both of you should stop with the going back and forth... It's silly and unnecessary!

That's where I am at here....

XRGd0gD0QNE

[jaleely]

Trollbie i didn't know luigi died! : ( Super sad face : (
I'm sorry!
I guess i missed that post or something. aww : (
My condolences!

Just keep an eye out for anything with your other critters. I hope all those cases were unrelated : (

[Trollbie]

Trollbie i didn't know luigi died! : ( Super sad face : (
I'm sorry!
I guess i missed that post or something. aww : (
My condolences!

Just keep an eye out for anything with your other critters. I hope all those cases were unrelated : (

I didn't post about it. I've been busy and my laptop charger was broken, and I was pretty devastated so I didn't want to think about it :( it happened like 3 weeks ago...

Thank you though!

[RandyRhoads]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/randy666rhoads/DFG.jpg

After over a 100 mile trip, I came back exactly where I was before. Perfectly legal, with no limit on how many you can posses, as long as it's CA native. Issue resolved with no more of anything in question. She highlighted the law that adresses reptile capture and possesion in the DFG manual and gave me it.

[Jay]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d86/randy666rhoads/DFG.jpg

After over a 100 mile trip, I came back exactly where I was before. Perfectly legal, with no limit on how many you can posses, as long as it's CA native. Issue resolved with no more of anything in question. She highlighted the law that adresses reptile capture and possesion in the DFG manual and gave me it.
You don't need to prove yourself.

[millertime89]

Care to share which law?

[Jay]

btw, its illegal to possess this species in the state of California according to California Code of Regulations Title 14, Section 671 C-7-E which is available here (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CCoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnrm.dfg.ca.gov%2FFileHandler.ashx %3FDocumentID%3D28427&ei=ZEk-ULN1iPisAbyIgdAO&usg=AFQjCNE4B6WQKg_LNyUKGhV8lWH0PHKEGw)

Lol, why are you doing p.i ?

[RandyRhoads]

Lol, why are you doing p.i ?


Ahahahaha :smug::smug::smug::smug::smug:

[jaleely]

Trollbie! Since randy found possible parasites in his autopsy, it's an idea that since he's going to treat his snakes for worms, you should treat yours too!
: )

[RandyRhoads]

Trollbie! Since randy found possible parasites in his autopsy, it's an idea that since he's going to treat his snakes for worms, you should treat yours too!
: )

No, don't just go treating for worms without knowing if they do or not. If you're concerned you could get a fecal test done, which is probablly cheaper than the meds anyway.

And those were wild caught, I knew the possibility of them having parasites and kept them seperated from all my others.

[jaleely]

ah, okay.

And panicur or whatever it's spelled, isn't that harsh on the animals. Was talking to a guy who frequently catches garter snakes and he treats them all for parasites as soon as he gets them no matter what.

*shrug* i have considered doing it to my snakes just to make sure. usually you can get clues on if they have them, from their feces...but i always feel like they may have some and since i'm not like, micro-scoping their poo i wouldn't know about it.

I haven't done it yet, but for piece of mind i have considered it. just seems like it's so hard to tell when something is wrong with these guys (i mean at least a dog or cat will cry or whine if too upset).

[RandyRhoads]

I was about to treat all mine just in case. But it was brought to my attention Panacur and other deworms don't kill all worms, some need specific drugs for specific worms. And i'm not sure about how harsh it is on other snakes, but Kim was telling me that it's really hard on Crotalids so maybe it's different for others. But even if it is safe, with the price of both the test and med taken into considerationyou might as well just get the fecal test and know specifically.

[Trollbie]

Trollbie! Since randy found possible parasites in his autopsy, it's an idea that since he's going to treat his snakes for worms, you should treat yours too!
: )

They didn't find anything during Luigi's necropsy so I think my snakes are safe. But I will get them tested as soon as I get some extra money. I also need to find a good reptile vet around Long Beach now that I moved...

[Will0W783]

Panacur is generally regarded as the safest dewormer available for snakes, at a dosage of 50-100mg/kg. However, there is documentation of crotalids (pit vipers) dying after a single dose...something about the vipers makes them more fragile and susceptible to bad reactions I guess. I really don't know why, and I can't get an answer out of anyone about it.

However, Panacur will not treat ALL parasites. It is good for nematodes (whip worms and roundworms), but it won't touch giardia or cryptosporidiosis. I dont' advocate blanket treating snakes if there are no symptoms....any medication can be rough on their system and in CBB snakes the chance of parasite infection is very low. I think treating with medicine where it's not going to help is probably not a good idea. Panacur wouldn't hurt boas though, so if you're concerned go ahead. It's really only the viperids that you have to be concerned with. You can also have fecal tests run on your snakes. They are quite inexpensive and take only minutes.

[millertime89]

Lol, why are you doing p.i ?

Cuz I'm sick of seeing people in this hobby getting busted for their own stupid mistakes and reflecting negatively on the rest of us at a time when that's about the last thing we need. I usually check for hots legislation if I'm not sure about it.

[qnrvzyro]

sorry,i cannot do anything

[RandyRhoads]

Cuz I'm sick of seeing people in this hobby getting busted for their own stupid mistakes and reflecting negatively on the rest of us at a time when that's about the last thing we need. I usually check for hots legislation if I'm not sure about it.

If it's so important for you to play law enforcement officer with me, contact Dianne at Fish & Game Department
7329 Silverado Trail, Napa, CA
(707) 944-5500

You can speak to her yourself since this is such a major deal in your life. :bouncy:


If multiple calls and driving over 100 miles to "turn myself in" and to find out in person that it WAS legal would be considered a stupid mistake on my part, I must be a damn ignorant inconsiderate fool with no respect for this hobby.