Dangerous pet products that should never be used for pets

[BarelyBreathing]

I'm getting very frustrated with the amount of threads I see all over the internet about issues. It starts with something along the lines of "what's wrong with my pet"? and upon digging further, I see some of the most dreadful things they use in their enclosures for their reptiles. So, let's make a list of products marketed towards reptiles that should never actually be used. I'll start:

1: Calci-sand- This innocent enough looking bag of substrate may actually be the number one cause of non-health related impaction (meaning the animal is otherwise completely healthy). It even comes in fun colors! Why is it dangerous? First and foremost, Calci-sand is made of calcium. When an animal is low on calcium, it will be tempted to actually eat the substrate. Secondly, even if an animal is completely healthy, an animal will in some point of its life accidentally ingest its substrate. This can happen when it's hunting, eating greens, drinking, digging, or even just walking around. Calci-sand binds when it gets wet. Basically, it turns to glue in your animal's digestive tract. If your animal ingests this substrate, unless emergency medical care is sought soon after, it is likely that your animal will die an extremely painful death.

2: Heat rocks- Heat rocks are marketed as a great way to achieve a source for belly heat. Why are they dangerous? In the past, and even sometimes presently, they experience internal wiring shortages. When this occurs, instead of shutting off, the heat rocks will get so hot that they have actually been documented as causing third degree burns on reptiles.

3: Care fresh/ pet fresh/ recycled newspaper pellet bedding- These products are made for ease of cre when cleaning your pet's enclosures. They were made for animals that make large messes, such as rabbits, ferrets, hamsters, girbils, mice, and rats. Unfortunately, some of this bedding ends up in the reptile side of the pet hobby as well. To be honest, I'm not even a fan of using it for mammals. Why is is dangerous? Similarly to the first substrate, this type of bedding is ultra absorbant (exactly as it's advertised to be). If it's ingested, and it will be if you use it as a substrate with no barrier in between, it will actually absorb digestive fluids while in the digestive tract, causing impaction. This substrate also sucks humidity straight out of the environment, and can actually suck humidity out of your pet through skin contact if your pet is directly exposed to it for long enough periods.

4: Excavator Sand- Now this product is actually quite cool if used correctly. It's basically a molding sand. Get it wet, and you can build some very intricate landscapes. Why is it dangerous? Exactly the same reason that makes it so cool. If the slightest amount of water comes in contact with this sand, it will stick itself to whatever is wet. For example, if you use it for your bearded dragon and your bearded dragon walks through its water bowl and then walks onto the substrate, he will have a thick layer of Excavator Sand coating his feet and toes. There are documented incidents of this happening and the reptile involved will have open sores that can get infected, and in some cases lose limbs. This product should ONLY be used on the few desert reptiles that never need water bowls provided to them in their enclosures, such as uromastyx.

Alright folks, add your own dangerous pet product.

[StudentoReptile]

Expanding on heat rocks....Its funny that the further we (the collective reptile industry) got from what these animals get in the wild, the more we screwed things up. Not only is a heat rock hazardous, its completely redundant! If you are trying to provide a basking spot for a lizard or snake, or even a small tortoise, just use a REAL flat rock placed directly underneath the basking lights. This more naturally replicates what the reptile is going to experience in the wild, the rock or slate will heat up just as much, but there's no cords running into the enclosure, no concerns about a real rock overheating or short-circuiting.
----------

5.) Compact Fluorescent Bulbs for UVA/UVB (spiral-shaped, coil-shaped, etc.)
- These bulbs are basically an answer to hobbyists who wanted a UV bulb that would mount into an incandescent fixture. However, many reptile keepers (notably in the tortoise & bearded dragon communities) have claimed that these bulbs are too bright & intense, causing blindness in their animals. One thing to note is that these bulbs are designed to be mounted sideways in a horizontal fixture, NOT a standard dome fixture that points the bulb straight down. This could be a factor in some of the blindness cases, yet many keepers state that even when mounted correctly, the bulbs still cause blindness. Official studies on these bulbs are pending, but it is the general consensus of the herp community to avoid them. Stick to the traditional tube florescent bulbs or mercury vapor bulbs.

[StudentoReptile]

6.) Turtle Lagoons
- Often sold by Lee, these tiny, plastic turtle pools come in a variety of shapes (usually round or kidney-shaped) and are pretty inexpensive. Why are they dangerous? This shallow little lagoon is a horrible habitat for an aquatic turtle for a number of reasons. It is too shallow and too small to provide any adequate swimming space. There is no way to provide heating (the thing is made of cheap plastic!). There's also no way to provide shelter for a baby turtle. Yet because of its cheap price, the turtle lagoon lures many ignorant new turtle keepers into believing that this is a great home for a baby turtle. Genuine turtle hobbyists call these lagoons "baby turtle death traps" and the name is fitting; many hatchling red-eared sliders and related turtle species languish in these shallow little pools for months with no heat, gradually losing energy, getting respiratory infections, refusing food, etc...until they eventually perish.

[infernalis]

Cedar bedding!!

Indirectly or directly.

Favored for it's "nice" aroma, people will house their feeder rodents in it.

Rich in toxic terpenes. (The same chemical turpentine is made from)

[BarelyBreathing]

StudenttoReptile, do you mind if I repost those two on the other threads I have made? Wayne, I will re-word that post and post it as well. I can't believe I forgot cedar(and pine)!!

[infernalis]

just be careful, I have seen people panic and try to avoid common lumber for cage building.

Kiln fired pine is safe, raw pine is not.

[BarelyBreathing]

I'm speaking only on bedding there. :)

[BarelyBreathing]

Garden mulch- Cypress "mulch" type reptile substrate is fine, however the word "mulch" is a bit misguiding. Often times keepers will see large bags of actual garden cypress mulch available for a much cheaper price at a garden or home improvement store and purchase it without looking at the ingredients. Why is it dangerous? Garden mulch often contains chemicals that are not wanted in your reptile's enclosure. Pesticides and fertilizers are not uncommon. Even organic mulch contains "organic content from inorganic materials" and animal waste.

Analog thermometers and hygrometers- Cheap and popular, this seems to be the standard for checking the environment. Why are they dangerous? Analog meters are known for being very inaccurate, as well as having the tendancy to get "stuck" on a specific reading. Knowing the exact temperatures and humidity levels is essential to keeping reptiles. If your instruments aren't reading properly, it's very possible to over or underheat your reptile, or dry them out or give them too much humidity.

[StudentoReptile]

StudenttoReptile, do you mind if I repost those two on the other threads I have made? Wayne, I will re-word that post and post it as well. I can't believe I forgot cedar(and pine)!!

That's fine.

[snake man12]

Glass Aquariums
They don't hold any humidity or temperature, they can be escaped easily unless the proper clips are purchased.
Also cleaning is a problem because of the weight of the glass and they are very fragile. Also they offer almost no security for the reptile.
They are mad for fish not reptiles, Don't use them, either buy a tub or make a custom enclosure.

[casey15]

Heat Caves- same problem as heat rocks

[StudentoReptile]

Analog thermometers and hygrometers- Cheap and popular, this seems to be the standard for checking the environment. Why are they dangerous? Analog meters are known for being very inaccurate, as well as having the tendancy to get "stuck" on a specific reading. Knowing the exact temperatures and humidity levels is essential to keeping reptiles. If your instruments aren't reading properly, it's very possible to over or underheat your reptile, or dry them out or give them too much humidity.

Funny...I actually wrote a blog about this one back in May: Have Reptiles? Get a Temperature Gun! « Student of the Reptile (http://studentofthereptile.wordpress.com/2012/05/10/have-reptiles-get-a-temperature-gun/)

[casey15]

Glass Aquariums
They don't hold any humidity or temperature, they can be escaped easily unless the proper clips are purchased.
Also cleaning is a problem because of the weight of the glass and they are very fragile. Also they offer almost no security for the reptile.
They are mad for fish not reptiles, Don't use them, either buy a tub or make a custom enclosure.

Right on, and normally they are what new owners use to house their animals in, without knowing the need for temps/humidity

[snake man12]

Heat Caves- same problem as heat rocks

I wouldn't even look at one...

[StudentoReptile]

I wouldn't categorize glass tanks as "dangerous products" per say. They're just not as suited for some herp species as others. Kinda like you wouldn't use a humidifier on a bearded dragon or a 10.0 UVB bulb on an amphibian, or use sand for frogs or damp moss for Uromastyx, etc. None of those products are "bad;" they just have their specific functions for specific species.

I believe this thread is devoted to products that are just universally bad or hazardous across the board for any or all herps.

[BarelyBreathing]

That's fine.


Thanks!


Glass Aquariums
They don't hold any humidity or temperature, they can be escaped easily unless the proper clips are purchased.
Also cleaning is a problem because of the weight of the glass and they are very fragile. Also they offer almost no security for the reptile.
They are mad for fish not reptiles, Don't use them, either buy a tub or make a custom enclosure.


I'm in the center of this one. While I agree that they are horrible for most species, some animals do alright in them when set up properly.

[infernalis]

wow this thread is picking up some steam.

Great posts everyone.

[infernalis]

I'm in the center of this one. While I agree that they are horrible for most species, some animals do alright in them when set up properly.

Glass aquariums are perfectly fine for things like garter snakes, milk snakes, corns, Anoles, geckos, and such.

I have a dedicated reptile room, so "traffic" in front of the cages is minimal, and I use plywood to make tops for escape artists.

The whole room is climate controlled, so holding in heat is no issue here, and they do look good when set up on shelves.

[snake man12]

I would say they are dangerous to most reptile species save for a few exceptions. They should never be used for snakes or lizards with very specific requirements. My 0.02

[Hannibalcanibal]

Sand for beardies and geckos

[infernalis]

I would say they are dangerous to most reptile species save for a few exceptions. They should never be used for snakes or lizards with very specific requirements. My 0.02

Now that much I agree on.

And not everyone has a heated reptile room to put them in.

I specialize in Thamnophis (Rare Garter snakes) that can live from central America to Alaska, so the tanks work fine for them.

However, when I see tropical/rainforest animals in fish tanks, it infuriates me.

[BarelyBreathing]

There's nothing wrong with actual sand (not Calci-sand) for certain species of reptiles. Sand alone doesn't cause impaction. Dehydration does.

[Hannibalcanibal]

certain species, like uros and desert iggies, but not leo geckos, beardies, or even desert snakes.

[snake man12]

Now that much I agree on.

And not everyone has a heated reptile room to put them in.

I specialize in Thamnophis (Rare Garter snakes) that can live from central America to Alaska, so the tanks work fine for them.

However, when I see tropical/rainforest animals in fish tanks, it infuriates me.

That was what I was try to get at, thanks

[BarelyBreathing]

Leopard geckos, bearded dragons, and some species of snakes do VERY well on it. Wayne, may I post an RF link?

[Hannibalcanibal]

Leopard Gecko Sand Impaction X-rays (http://www.herpcenter.com/reptile-articles/leopard-gecko-sand-impaction-xrays.html)
Xray of sand impaction in a bearded dragon | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/olatheanimalhospital/4228517026/)

i'm going to have to disagree with you. it may not happen often, but it still happens.

[shaunyboy]

pine tree sap or any type of pine oil etc can be harmfull to carpet pythons

also i have personally found and read on,morelia dedicated forums,that aspen can sometimes cause mild respiritory issues,folk think it may be down to,the high dust content in the aspen,available here in Scotland

cheers shaun

P.S.sorry if this was a lizard only related thread

[BarelyBreathing]

Again, sand itself doesn't cause impaction. Dehydration causes it. A perfectly healthy, hydrated bearded dragon can swallow and pass sand without complication because sand, when wet, doesn't bind. It breaks up. This is purely fact.

Shaun, this is definitely not a lizard only related thread. Thanks for sharing! I don't use aspen simply because it molds so easily.

[millertime89]

However, when I see tropical/rainforest animals in fish tanks, it infuriates me.

When done right, its not an issue. I kept my BRB in a glass aquarium for several months with no issue. I'll agree it shouldn't be recommended to anybody but it can serve well in a pinch when set up correctly and sealed.

[iBaman]

I use a tank for my bp...as long as i put a towel on top and have a heat lamp set on super low, it keeps heat and humidity just fine. Just gotta know how to work with it ;D

[ra94131]

I think the biggest problem with glass tanks is that they are frequently marketed/sold as the primary means for housing reptiles when in fact they are just a less desirable alternative to a number of more appropriate choices. They do work for certain animals in certain situations, but even then usually require some modification. They are definitely not the best choice for a new owner or one that doesn't understand their limitations.

[RandyRhoads]

Great post, any thoughts on that "prevent a mite"? I know it's not entirely legal here because of FDA regs...

[iBaman]

I think the biggest problem with glass tanks is that they are frequently marketed/sold as the primary means for housing reptiles when in fact they are just a less desirable alternative to a number of more appropriate choices. They do work for certain animals in certain situations, but even then usually require some modification. They are definitely not the best choice for a new owner or one that doesn't understand their limitations.

Exactly. It was my first snake, but I did oodles of research before I got him. After building my retic enclosure, I'll work on one for him...but for now, he does great (he's just a little small for his age, which I don't think is tank related xD)

[BarelyBreathing]

Great post, any thoughts on that "prevent a mite"? I know it's not entirely legal here because of FDA regs...


Prevent A Mite, when used correctly, can be a blessing. However, many keepers fail to read/follow the directions all the way through, thus subjecting their reptiles (and themselves) to toxic fumes.

[RandyRhoads]

Ahh good. So just follow the directions removing all water dishes, wait the correct amount of time and it's all good. Glad to hear. Much easy than buying mite treatments. I've had the same can last me for over a year.

[jarich]

I have to disagree with both the negative sand posts and the glass tank posts.

There is nothing about a plastic tub, in and of itself, that holds either heat or humidity better, or makes for a better enclosure. (It might make for an easier enclosure, but that is a different story altogether) The heat retention and humidity you are referring to is the common solid top on the tub, instead of a common screen top on a glass enclosure. Nothing to do with the glass enclosure itself, but the lid. The same holds true for the security of the reptile in glass enclosures. This has to do with the hides and 'furniture' present in the enclosure, and little to do with the glass.

As for the sand causing impaction, this makes little sense either. These animals do not live on tiles and paper towels in the wild; they regularly ingest substrate there. That picture with the impaction shows an unhealthy, obese animal, which at a guess likely means all insects and no vegetable matter. A common malpractice which can lead to a dehydrated animal. Small particulate impactions are usually caused by dehydration or inappropriate heating.

[StudentoReptile]

I have to disagree with both the negative sand posts and the glass tank posts.

There is nothing about a plastic tub, in and of itself, that holds either heat or humidity better, or makes for a better enclosure. (It might make for an easier enclosure, but that is a different story altogether) The heat retention and humidity you are referring to is the common solid top on the tub, instead of a common screen top on a glass enclosure. Nothing to do with the glass enclosure itself, but the lid. The same holds true for the security of the reptile in glass enclosures. This has to do with the hides and 'furniture' present in the enclosure, and little to do with the glass.

As for the sand causing impaction, this makes little sense either. These animals do not live on tiles and paper towels in the wild; they regularly ingest substrate there. That picture with the impaction shows an unhealthy, obese animal, which at a guess likely means all insects and no vegetable matter. A common malpractice which can lead to a dehydrated animal. Small particulate impactions are usually caused by dehydration or inappropriate heating.

Ditto.

Again, I would like to reiterate that I believe this thread is devoted to products that are just universally bad or hazardous across the board for any or all herps.

For example: heat rocks, compact florescent bulbs and turtle lagoons. All are products that are hazardous even when used properly per the instructions of the manufacturer. Using a turtle lagoon as a longterm baby turtle habitat is hazardous. Using a heat rock as a supplemental heat source is hazardous. Using compact florescent bulbs is hazardous. Period.

In comparison, things like whether or not sand is good for desert lizards or glass tanks being good enclosures is simply a difference in opinion and subjective to a hobbyist's unique situation. Using either in the right conditions isn't going to kill a herp.

Bottom line: I would use glass tanks for some species. I would use sand for some species. On the other hand, I would NEVER use a heat rock for anything. I would NEVER use a compact florescent bulb or a turtle lagoon for anything.

[Wildside]

Prevent A Mite, when used correctly, can be a blessing. However, many keepers fail to read/follow the directions all the way through, thus subjecting their reptiles (and themselves) to toxic fumes.

This is why I dislike it. It's too potent! The ivomec formula I use is gentle enough to be used daily for serious infestations. That combined with a good, thorough cleaning will get rid of the mites. Sometimes in this industry diligence is required. A mite infestation is one of those times.

My ivomec mixture is 1cc diluted in 32 oz. of water.

[Snakeboy32]

is this ok?

Temperature Gun Infrared Thermometer w/Laser Sight | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Temperature-Gun-Infrared-Thermometer-w-Laser-Sight-/190567584963?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5eb694c3#ht_1999wt_1059)

[StudentoReptile]

is this ok?

Temperature Gun Infrared Thermometer w/Laser Sight | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Temperature-Gun-Infrared-Thermometer-w-Laser-Sight-/190567584963?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5eb694c3#ht_1999wt_1059)

I don't see why not.

[franks]

StudenttoReptile, do you mind if I repost those two on the other threads I have made? Wayne, I will re-word that post and post it as well. I can't believe I forgot cedar(and pine)!!


Pine is a HUGE one!! Cedar is bad, but I think it is generally understood by the reptile community as toxic. However, many substrate manufactorers use pine and sell it as reptile safe substrate. I was in a pet warehouse today to find a natural bark type of substrate for a carpet python and out of 5 different bags only found one (cypress mulch) that did not contain pine.

[KORBIN5895]

Did you actually read this thread Frank?

[franks]

Are you refering to the one titled "Dangerous pet products that should never be used for pets?"

[KORBIN5895]

just be careful, I have seen people panic and try to avoid common lumber for cage building.

Kiln fired pine is safe, raw pine is not.

Pine is a HUGE one!! Cedar is bad, but I think it is generally understood by the reptile community as toxic. However, many substrate manufactorers use pine and sell it as reptile safe substrate. I was in a pet warehouse today to find a natural bark type of substrate for a carpet python and out of 5 different bags only found one (cypress mulch) that did not contain pine.


Are you refering to the one titled "Dangerous pet products that should never be used for pets?"
Uh, yeah. Hence me saying this thread.

[franks]

Lol Korbin your unprovoked belligerence is amusing. Up front, I want you to know, no offense taken since this is all in the spirit of forum discussion. With that said, since you so respectfully asked me to explain myself:

I build and sell custom enclosures, so I understand lumber is safe AFTER IT IS SEALED. The fact that it is pine is part of the reason we seal it btw.
I understand that kiln dried pine is safe, it has no oil. The bags that I was referring to all explicitly stated “Not kiln dried to help substrate retain humidity.”
Hope this helps.

[KORBIN5895]

Lol Korbin your unprovoked belligerence is amusing. Up front, I want you to know, no offense taken since this is all in the spirit of forum discussion. With that said, since you so respectfully asked me to explain myself:

I build and sell custom enclosures, so I understand lumber is safe AFTER IT IS SEALED. The fact that it is pine is part of the reason we seal it btw.
I understand that kiln dried pine is safe, it has no oil. The bags that I was referring to all explicitly stated “Not kiln dried to help substrate retain humidity.”
Hope this helps.

Ummm... no I didn't.

One thing you have to learn is this. I am just like mykee but without all of the experience and I am not so smart. Other than that you just have to learn how to take me. I not always intentionally rude I just lack the natural filters others seem to have and I don't particularly care to try too hard sometimes. If I come off rude its nothing personal... I just didn't take the time to filter my thoights ans just fired away. Sometimes I reread stuff and have to edit my whole post or ask a mod to remove it.

Wait! You build custom cages? Sweet! Post some pics! I just built a 4'x2'x2' enclosure a couple of months ago. I love dyi enclosures.

More questions! How would non kiln dried pine shavins be better for humidity retention?

[Pareeeee]

This is a great thread!! I e-mailed some people that were selling heat rocks in the classifieds and told them they should throw them away because they are very dangerous. I never got a response...

Glass Aquariums
They don't hold any humidity or temperature, they can be escaped easily unless the proper clips are purchased.
Also cleaning is a problem because of the weight of the glass and they are very fragile. Also they offer almost no security for the reptile.
They are mad for fish not reptiles, Don't use them, either buy a tub or make a custom enclosure.

This I disagree with - it is all relative to the type of reptile you are trying to keep. I would not keep a Ball Python in a glass terrarium, for instance, since they are shy snakes with high humidity requirements.

My Rosy Boa, Boaz, does well in his glass terrarium since he is a desert-dweller who needs a dry environment. All you have to do is black out the sides and back with bristol board, or if you feel like something more permanent, paint them. I also have one of those metal tops that clicks into place around the plastic edging on the top of the tank. It doesn't budge...not with a *small* snake like Boaz, anyway.

[Wildside]

Ummm... no I didn't.

One thing you have to learn is this. I am just like mykee but without all of the experience and I am not so smart. Other than that you just have to learn how to take me. I not always intentionally rude I just lack the natural filters others seem to have and I don't particularly care to try too hard sometimes. If I come off rude its nothing personal... I just didn't take the time to filter my thoights ans just fired away. Sometimes I reread stuff and have to edit my whole post or ask a mod to remove it.

Wait! You build custom cages? Sweet! Post some pics! I just built a 4'x2'x2' enclosure a couple of months ago. I love dyi enclosures.

More questions! How would non kiln dried pine shavins be better for humidity retention?

It's better for humidity retention regarding plants, still dangerous for reptiles.

[Wildside]

This is a great thread!! I e-mailed some people that were selling heat rocks in the classifieds and told them they should throw them away because they are very dangerous. I never got a response...



This I disagree with - it is all relative to the type of reptile you are trying to keep. I would not keep a Ball Python in a glass terrarium, for instance, since they are shy snakes with high humidity requirements.

My Rosy Boa, Boaz, does well in his glass terrarium since he is a desert-dweller who needs a dry environment. All you have to do is black out the sides and back with bristol board, or if you feel like something more permanent, paint them. I also have one of those metal tops that clicks into place around the plastic edging on the top of the tank. It doesn't budge...not with a *small* snake like Boaz, anyway.

I don't think glass aquariums should be in this thread at all. While we can all agree that they're not "the best" for every reptile they certainly are not "Dangerous"

[Evolieno]

Analog thermometers and hygrometers-Cheap and popular, this seems to be the standard for checking the environment. Why are they dangerous? Analog meters are known for being very inaccurate, as well as having the tendancy to get "stuck" on a specific reading. Knowing the exact temperatures and humidity levels is essential to keeping reptiles. If your instruments aren't reading properly, it's very possible to over or underheat your reptile, or dry them out or give them too much humidity.



Not to mention, new reptile owners don't always realize the adhesive used to stick them to the inside of the enclosure doesn't stick well to glass, etc. Especially when the reptile requires humidity. However, it does unfortunately stick TOO well to a reptile's scales. I found that out the hard way with my first snake years ago. And it is all too common. It can be a pain To remove from the reptile, and depending on how severe the damage is, aid in or cause scale rot. I was so scared when this happened to me, and it had never crossed my mind when I purchased them back then! I felt so terrible that I had to learn this the hard way and seemed like even after all the research I had done for my snake, that I was a terrible owner.

[LORDOFDARKNESS]

i recommend aspen bedding, always works for me.

[jhinton6932]

pressure treated plywood. unless you line it with FRP board or another plastic board, PT plywood contains loads of things that can be harmful. easier to avoid it all together.

[Wyldrose]

Heres on that bothers me: Hermit crab bling kit. Hermit crabs are all wild caught so putting glitter and glueing pompoms onto them is inhumane... http://www.petco.com/Assets/product_images/8/838081200022C.jpg

For the furry critters, Hartz flea and worm meds(actually a lot of pet meds sold in grocery and petshop fall into this too). One slight miss calculation and your animal is having seizures and/or dying from an over does. You Vet is the best place to buy these usually without them having to see your animals.

A note to add to the yesterdays news and other paper pellets. They can contain up to 10% of floor sweepings. Which can be bits of plastic, staples, glass etc. I use to use it for mice until I had to pick things out of it.

[KORBIN5895]

Heres on that bothers me: Hermit crab bling kit. Hermit crabs are all wild caught so putting glitter and glueing pompoms onto them is inhumane... http://www.petco.com/Assets/product_images/8/838081200022C.jpg

For the furry critters, Hartz flea and worm meds(actually a lot of pet meds sold in grocery and petshop fall into this too). One slight miss calculation and your animal is having seizures and/or dying from an over does. You Vet is the best place to buy these usually without them having to see your animals.

A note to add to the yesterdays news and other paper pellets. They can contain up to 10% of floor sweepings. Which can be bits of plastic, staples, glass etc. I use to use it for mice until I had to pick things out of it.

The fact that hermit crabs are wild caught has nothing to do with how humane glue pompoms to their shell is.

This thread is about things truly harmful not things that are harmful because of misuse.

[Snickers]

I've used carefresh with no problems.

[EmbraceCalamity]

I've used carefresh with no problems.Same. I used tons of Carefresh for my rat and never had to pick anything out of it. I'd tried some other things, but she really loves it. Now I only use a little just for her bed since she's been moved into a converted bookcase though.Heres on that bothers me: Hermit crab bling kit. Hermit crabs are all wild caught so putting glitter and glueing pompoms onto them is inhumane... http://www.petco.com/Assets/product_images/8/838081200022C.jpg
How exactly is that inhumane? I don't know anything about hermit crabs, but is it really gonna bother them having something on the outside of their shell?

~Maggot

[BarelyBreathing]

I specifically stated why Care Fresh was horrible for reptiles. It was made for rodents, that is why it's on the list.

[EmbraceCalamity]

I specifically stated why Care Fresh was horrible for reptiles. It was made for rodents, that is why it's on the list.I'm not sure who you're talking to, but people were replying to this:A note to add to the yesterdays news and other paper pellets. They can contain up to 10% of floor sweepings. Which can be bits of plastic, staples, glass etc. I use to use it for mice until I had to pick things out of it.So I'm not sure the point you're making.

~Maggot

[jausi]

is this ok?

Temperature Gun Infrared Thermometer w/Laser Sight | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Temperature-Gun-Infrared-Thermometer-w-Laser-Sight-/190567584963?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5eb694c3#ht_1999wt_1059)


I bought me a temp gun for my ATB enclosure, that will work fine, but I say go to your nearest local hardware store, you can get one for less money

[Cor8et]

is this ok?

Temperature Gun Infrared Thermometer w/Laser Sight | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Temperature-Gun-Infrared-Thermometer-w-Laser-Sight-/190567584963?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5eb694c3#ht_1999wt_1059)


Great product, i`v been using them for a bit now in all my vivs and the cat loves playing catch the dot.

[smy_749]

Same. I used tons of Carefresh for my rat and never had to pick anything out of it. I'd tried some other things, but she really loves it. Now I only use a little just for her bed since she's been moved into a converted bookcase though.How exactly is that inhumane? I don't know anything about hermit crabs, but is it really gonna bother them having something on the outside of their shell?

~Maggot

Its inhumane because its embarrassing. What if the crab is a boy and you sent him to hang out with the other crabs in a pink shell with pom poms?

[Pareeeee]

I just hope kids don't try gluing them on the crab's body :(

[possum]

Ok I'll add one: never use any kind of tape to hold furnishings, probes, thermometers, paper substrates (etc) in place in the cage with a snake. The humidity makes it come unstuck, but for some reason it readily re-sticks to the snake who then lays over the UTH to "permanently" cement it in place.... (I was a noob once upon a time too, LOL)

[ErikBush97]

Expanding on heat rocks....Its funny that the further we (the collective reptile industry) got from what these animals get in the wild, the more we screwed things up. Not only is a heat rock hazardous, its completely redundant! If you are trying to provide a basking spot for a lizard or snake, or even a small tortoise, just use a REAL flat rock placed directly underneath the basking lights. This more naturally replicates what the reptile is going to experience in the wild, the rock or slate will heat up just as much, but there's no cords running into the enclosure, no concerns about a real rock overheating or short-circuiting.
----------

5.) Compact Fluorescent Bulbs for UVA/UVB (spiral-shaped, coil-shaped, etc.)
- These bulbs are basically an answer to hobbyists who wanted a UV bulb that would mount into an incandescent fixture. However, many reptile keepers (notably in the tortoise & bearded dragon communities) have claimed that these bulbs are too bright & intense, causing blindness in their animals. One thing to note is that these bulbs are designed to be mounted sideways in a horizontal fixture, NOT a standard dome fixture that points the bulb straight down. This could be a factor in some of the blindness cases, yet many keepers state that even when mounted correctly, the bulbs still cause blindness. Official studies on these bulbs are pending, but it is the general consensus of the herp community to avoid them. Stick to the traditional tube florescent bulbs or mercury vapor bulbs.
I use a Fluker's 5.0 UVB bulb for my Ball Python. It's spiral shaped, as you specified. Is this safe? The bulb in this picture isn't the same as mine. Just found it on Google to use as an example. The wattage is different

[Lankyrob]

You dont need a uv bulb for a ball python?

[smy_749]

You dont need a uv bulb for a ball python?

Thats correct. Thanks for asking lol

[Concept9]

I'm getting very frustrated with the amount of threads I see all over the internet about issues. It starts with something along the lines of "what's wrong with my pet"? and upon digging further, I see some of the most dreadful things they use in their enclosures for their reptiles. So, let's make a list of products marketed towards reptiles that should never actually be used. I'll start:

1: Calci-sand- This innocent enough looking bag of substrate may actually be the number one cause of non-health related impaction (meaning the animal is otherwise completely healthy). It even comes in fun colors! Why is it dangerous? First and foremost, Calci-sand is made of calcium. When an animal is low on calcium, it will be tempted to actually eat the substrate. Secondly, even if an animal is completely healthy, an animal will in some point of its life accidentally ingest its substrate. This can happen when it's hunting, eating greens, drinking, digging, or even just walking around. Calci-sand binds when it gets wet. Basically, it turns to glue in your animal's digestive tract. If your animal ingests this substrate, unless emergency medical care is sought soon after, it is likely that your animal will die an extremely painful death.

2: Heat rocks- Heat rocks are marketed as a great way to achieve a source for belly heat. Why are they dangerous? In the past, and even sometimes presently, they experience internal wiring shortages. When this occurs, instead of shutting off, the heat rocks will get so hot that they have actually been documented as causing third degree burns on reptiles.

3: Care fresh/ pet fresh/ recycled newspaper pellet bedding- These products are made for ease of cre when cleaning your pet's enclosures. They were made for animals that make large messes, such as rabbits, ferrets, hamsters, girbils, mice, and rats. Unfortunately, some of this bedding ends up in the reptile side of the pet hobby as well. To be honest, I'm not even a fan of using it for mammals. Why is is dangerous? Similarly to the first substrate, this type of bedding is ultra absorbant (exactly as it's advertised to be). If it's ingested, and it will be if you use it as a substrate with no barrier in between, it will actually absorb digestive fluids while in the digestive tract, causing impaction. This substrate also sucks humidity straight out of the environment, and can actually suck humidity out of your pet through skin contact if your pet is directly exposed to it for long enough periods.

4: Excavator Sand- Now this product is actually quite cool if used correctly. It's basically a molding sand. Get it wet, and you can build some very intricate landscapes. Why is it dangerous? Exactly the same reason that makes it so cool. If the slightest amount of water comes in contact with this sand, it will stick itself to whatever is wet. For example, if you use it for your bearded dragon and your bearded dragon walks through its water bowl and then walks onto the substrate, he will have a thick layer of Excavator Sand coating his feet and toes. There are documented incidents of this happening and the reptile involved will have open sores that can get infected, and in some cases lose limbs. This product should ONLY be used on the few desert reptiles that never need water bowls provided to them in their enclosures, such as uromastyx.

Alright folks, add your own dangerous pet product.

I agree with this entirely. But regarding heat rocks, Zoo Med has changed there's so if they short or fail they now do so in the off position.

FYI.

[ErikBush97]

You dont need a uv bulb for a ball python?

You don't NEED one, but it is good for them.

[KORBIN5895]

You don't NEED one, but it is good for them.

No it's not. Do you know anything about their habits in nature.

[Lankyrob]

You don't NEED one, but it is good for them.

Am interested in this, can you show me how it is good for them?

[infernalis]

You don't NEED one, but it is good for them.

??? for a nocturnal snake?? how so??

[ErikBush97]

Am interested in this, can you show me how it is good for them?

It provides vitamin D. As I said. It's not needed but it is good for them.

[brandonh]

why would vitamin D help a nocturnal snake ? i don't know thats why i am asking :)

[ErikBush97]

??? for a nocturnal snake?? how so??

My Ball is active 50-80% of the day. he's anything but nocturnal. And even if he's asleep, he still benefits from the Vitamins and UV Rays that are put out by the UVB. I don't know why everything needs to turn into an argument on this forum.

[ErikBush97]

why would vitamin D help a nocturnal snake ? i don't know thats why i am asking :)

Even if the snake is asleep during the day, he will benefit from vitamin D and UV rays. Give ANY animal some extra vitamin D and it'll improve their health. :)

Edit: My snake hardly sits still.. or lays still I should say :) So I don't see how he's nocturnal! I mean... If it's a fact, it's a fact. My Ball just doesn't stay still long enough for me to think he's asleep. Also... If the snake is nocturnal, the UV rays/light from the UVB could help the snake to sleep if you think about it... To a nocturnal snake, light = sleep - dark = no sleepy sleepy. so as long as I turn that light off when I go to bed, the snake has a guide line as to when it's bed time.

[brandonh]

Even if the snake is asleep during the day, he will benefit from vitamin D and UV rays. Give ANY animal some extra vitamin D and it'll improve their health. :)

Thanks :) i was just wondering

[ErikBush97]

Thanks :) i was just wondering

No problem, man :)
Again... You don't necessarily NEED a UVB, but it's good for them and for their bones. (UVB's also help prevent some bone diseases)

[Terranaut]

Your Royal does not need a uvb light. Here is why.
Your snakes behavior is way more active than it will be a year from now. They are much more likely to have daytime activity when young. Royals eventualy (always at least one exception but the other 99%) become little hermits. They sit inside their hide and sleep all day but after dark they will come out and tour around a bit. So if the snake is inside the hide and does not come out while the uvb is on how can it help ? Other snakes might benefit from uvb ,but not royals. Sorry :(
Now if you think its good to have the light on during the early behavior then sure it might help and for sure isn't harmful so why not.
But I have heard those bulbs are to intense and can harm your herps eyes. (I did not read all of the last page so if someone wrote that alreadyI am sorry )

[Lankyrob]

This^^^^^^^^^^

[ErikBush97]

Your Royal does not need a uvb light. Here is why.
Your snakes behavior is way more active than it will be a year from now. They are much more likely to have daytime activity when young. Royals eventualy (always at least one exception but the other 99%) become little hermits. They sit inside their hide and sleep all day but after dark they will come out and tour around a bit. So if the snake is inside the hide and does not come out while the uvb is on how can it help ? Other snakes might benefit from uvb ,but not royals. Sorry :(
Now if you think its good to have the light on during the early behavior then sure it might help and for sure isn't harmful so why not.
But I have heard those bulbs are to intense and can harm your herps eyes. (I did not read all of the last page so if someone wrote that alreadyI am sorry )

I wouldn't want to harm my Ball's eyes.. Would you recommend ditching the light or waiting until it stops producing Vitamin D (In about 2 and a half months).

[infernalis]

The light is not producing any vitamins. The light assists in metabolism of vitamins, in reptiles that need it.

Recent studies have shown that python regius has eyes very sensitive to UV light, they can see the urine trail of rodents, WE on the other hand need a black light to see a urine trail.

A lot of activity from your snake during the day could also very well be an indicator that the snake is unable to find a "sweet spot" inside your enclosure, meaning that if the entire cage is an unsuitable environment, the snake will appear "active" when really it's desperately seeking an area to be comfortable.

[KORBIN5895]

Here is an article about UV lighting. It is mostly aimed at turtles but it explains what UV actually does and what happens when an animal doesn't get what it needs.

Articles: ATP's Guide to UV-B Lighting (http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/Articles/guidetolighting.htm)

[jarich]

While its true that ball pythons are nocturnal, they are not exclusively so. In the wild you will still see balls coming out sometimes to bask. Since the temperatures at which they digest do not make this absolutely necessary, there seems to be something to the fact that this might be related to the light instead. Reptiles do seem to instinctively bask more when their blood Vit D metabolite levels are low, so it is very likely that this could be the case for such exposed basking in the wild. By not having a UV light, you are again taking away an option that they might need. Not saying they absolutely need it, but rather that by not having it you are reducing the options open to them. I have read enough articles about animals that supposedly didnt need UVB and the improvements in health that is not visible as a result to have now changed all my enclosures to having a UVB light. Just because you cant see it, doesnt mean it isnt having an effect. Another thing to consider is that rodents are not the most amazing source of Vit D either...

As for hurting its eyes, that shouldnt be a problem. As long as it has hides to escape the light when it wants, and as long as the light is placed correctly, then there is no need to worry about eye issues. Those problems happen when the light is too close, or when it is placed on the side of the enclosure instead of on top. Animals are adapted to dealing with the sun, so a light placed in the same position is not going to be a problem.

I agree with Wayne though that if your ball is moving all the time, its a possible indicator that it is not feeling secure enough. They usually do this when you move them to a new home, or dont have enough hides, or its too warm, etc. Even youngsters should settle down for most of the day.

[ErikBush97]

While its true that ball pythons are nocturnal, they are not exclusively so. In the wild you will still see balls coming out sometimes to bask. Since the temperatures at which they digest do not make this absolutely necessary, there seems to be something to the fact that this might be related to the light instead. Reptiles do seem to instinctively bask more when their blood Vit D metabolite levels are low, so it is very likely that this could be the case for such exposed basking in the wild. By not having a UV light, you are again taking away an option that they might need. Not saying they absolutely need it, but rather that by not having it you are reducing the options open to them. I have read enough articles about animals that supposedly didnt need UVB and the improvements in health that is not visible as a result to have now changed all my enclosures to having a UVB light. Just because you cant see it, doesnt mean it isnt having an effect. Another thing to consider is that rodents are not the most amazing source of Vit D either...

As for hurting its eyes, that shouldnt be a problem. As long as it has hides to escape the light when it wants, and as long as the light is placed correctly, then there is no need to worry about eye issues. Those problems happen when the light is too close, or when it is placed on the side of the enclosure instead of on top. Animals are adapted to dealing with the sun, so a light placed in the same position is not going to be a problem.

I agree with Wayne though that if your ball is moving all the time, its a possible indicator that it is not feeling secure enough. They usually do this when you move them to a new home, or dont have enough hides, or its too warm, etc. Even youngsters should settle down for most of the day.

Well, I did switch enclosures recently but he's got two hides, one side is 85-90 degrees, the other is about 70-75 degrees. So I don't think it's that.

[Cor8et]

Here is an article about UV lighting. It is mostly aimed at turtles but it explains what UV actually does and what happens when an animal doesn't get what it needs.

Articles: ATP's Guide to UV-B Lighting (http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/Articles/guidetolighting.htm)


Thanks for that :)


Excellent thread guys.

[Ourobouros]

Not to mention, new reptile owners don't always realize the adhesive used to stick them to the inside of the enclosure doesn't stick well to glass, etc. Especially when the reptile requires humidity. However, it does unfortunately stick TOO well to a reptile's scales. I found that out the hard way with my first snake years ago and all too common. It can be a pain To remove from the reptile, and depending on how severe the damage is, aid in or cause scale rot. I was so scared when this happened to me, and it had never crossed my mind when I purchased them back then! I felt so terrible that I had to learn this the hard way and seemed like even after all the research I had done for my snake, that I was a terrible owner.

Anything stuck to the glass in my tank I have to pry off with my nails very carefully under hot water over the course of several minutes..... I thoroughly washed and picked the tank clean and customized it for my snake and I have no issues with anything brought up about glass tanks. Granted humidity suffers from the heat bulb but periodic misting and a plastic cover over the other half of the screen lid fixes that.

I definitely plan on a nicer, acrylic tank that I can spoil my snake with but while she's a baby the tank I have is great. I watch the humidity and temps like a hawk and always will. The best thing for any pet owner is vigilance because even if one makes a mistake, knowing is half the battle. The other half is taking responsibility to address any problems.

[andcad]

good stuff, thanks for the info!

[suz1000]

Thank you for the post I was unaware of the problem with heat rocks I threw mine in the trash this morning.

[suz1000]

I use a glass enclosure but being a former refrigeration and heating guy I did quite a few modifications to it. It has locking lids. R24 insulation covers most of the exterior glass (its not fiberglass its doubled up bubble wrap with appropriate spacers) ((as I have it I would guess is the enclosure has around an R40 value)) it keeps up to 80% humidity and now that I changed the light arrangement it keeps his basking spot 130 and the cool side sits between 75 and 80. I have (as of yesterday when I cleaned the cage) 14 inches of eco earth lining the bottom. etc. With the scoopers I made out of sheet-metal I have no problem clearing and cleaning the enclosure. Takes longer to soak the eco-earth than it does to clean the cage.

[Mhawk151]

I have heard on numerous occasions that cedar bedding is toxic to reptiles. But I recently started thinking about the food items that they ingest on a regular basis almost always lives in cedar bedding. It is not a substrate that I use for my pets but the local pet store does. I've not known any problems with them at all although the mice and rats bury themselves in it and must certainly have it in their fur and skin. Just curious, Hmmmm?

[Starbuck]

I have heard on numerous occasions that cedar bedding is toxic to reptiles. But I recently started thinking about the food items that they ingest on a regular basis almost always lives in cedar bedding. It is not a substrate that I use for my pets but the local pet store does. I've not known any problems with them at all although the mice and rats bury themselves in it and must certainly have it in their fur and skin. Just curious, Hmmmm?

i think the issue with cedar is the oils found in the wood; they can produce contact blisters on the snake, as well as cause respiratory issues. I think lots of commercial mouse and rat breeders actually don't use cedar anymore either, but rather shredded paper, aspen, and wood blends, as it is cheaper (though there may still be some cedar present to help control odor).
I was actually thinking about this the other day as well…
I believe many small animal keepers follow the current dogma that the oils in cedar can actually be harmful to their pets as well, with smaller animals like mice being more at risk than say, a rabbit.

[Awaiting Abyss]

Cedar is extremely harmful to any small animal and should never be used. They will develop respiratory infections. Sometimes it will kill them and sometimes it will just cause them issues for the rest of their lives.
A while back I had a really bad mite issue that I couldn't get rid of and I was afraid to use my regular mite treatment on my mice so I put them on cedar bedding for a week... Those two mice (I only had two at the time) had issues the rest of their lives and their lives were shortened.

Pine is only safe for small animals if it is kiln-dried. I use kiln-dried pine with all of my rodents since I am allergic to aspen.

[stevenrudge]

Anything by Hagen,lethel

[mistersprinkles]

I use a Fluker's 5.0 UVB bulb for my Ball Python. It's spiral shaped, as you specified. Is this safe? The bulb in this picture isn't the same as mine. Just found it on Google to use as an example. The wattage is different

Your ball python can't benefit from UV at all. Remove the light. :cool:

Anything by Hagen, lethal

Not true. For people on the turtle/amphibian side of the hobby, Hagen makes great products via their "Fluval" and "Aquaclear" brands. Good filters and heaters.

[michiganman83]

hello everyone!

new to this forum but not new to reptiles! but I got a question? what does everyone think about using (100% cypress mulch) that I have located at Lowes improvement store! it says there is no pesticides or chemicals in it! now im asking because I have over 35 snakes that I wanna switch back to from newspaper and paper towels. I was buying bedding from LLL Reptile and the locale pet stores but I live 6 states away and they are killing me with shipping cost! let me know what ya guys think!!!! thanks.:suspicious:

[jarich]

Your ball python can't benefit from UV at all. Remove the light. :cool:


Not true at all actually, and I think I fairly clearly discussed why above. For Erik, Id recommend getting a better UV light though as those coil ones are pretty useless and much harder to keep inside a snake enclosure.


As for your question about cyprus mulch, michiganman83, yes, you can use the stuff from Lowes. Its the same thing, just different packaging really. Like a lot of reptile products, the second a reptile brand packages it, it gets about four times as expensive. Make sure it is free of dyes though too, sometimes for the garden stuff they dye it a uniform colour.

[kelzerman]

hello everyone!

new to this forum but not new to reptiles! but I got a question? what does everyone think about using (100% cypress mulch) that I have located at Lowes improvement store! it says there is no pesticides or chemicals in it! now im asking because I have over 35 snakes that I wanna switch back to from newspaper and paper towels. I was buying bedding from LLL Reptile and the locale pet stores but I live 6 states away and they are killing me with shipping cost! let me know what ya guys think!!!! thanks.:suspicious:

I would check that it is also 100% cypress. I have seen a lot of cypress "type" mulch around here that is really pine.

[michiganman83]

yeah when I go to check the mulch out im gonna read it and im gonna call the manufacturer and ask them what is put into it!

[blackviper108]

My glass aqurium is too hot

[ZARTASHA54]

This is really scary.......

[Juan 8]

Is pine bark mulch safe?

[Akuma223]

Is pine bark mulch safe?

Avoid any pine as much as possible, it isn't good for any animal as it is naturally toxic.

[Casp1r]

I would never use heat rocks

[shaunyboy]

Is pine bark mulch safe?

pine sap is lethal to snakes mate

i use dry pine as perching shelves in my viv's with no issue

as long as there is no pine sap/oil then its ok

if your mulch has the slightest chance of having wet pine sap then steer clear of it


cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

I would never use heat rocks

^^^^^
i have heard they are notorious for over heating and burning reptiles or worse


cheers shaun

[CosmicOwl]

pine sap is lethal to snakes mate

i use dry pine as perching shelves in my viv's with no issue

as long as there is no pine sap/oil then its ok

if your mulch has the slightest chance of having wet pine sap then steer clear of it


cheers shaun

I wouldn't use pine as a bedding, because if probably isn't kiln dried and the dust would be a problem. That being said, a snake isn't going to die from coming into contact with any kind of pine. Snakes hide in pine trees/under pine bark in the wild, so they have to have some tolerance to the oils.

[shaunyboy]

I wouldn't use pine as a bedding, because if probably isn't kiln dried and the dust would be a problem. That being said, a snake isn't going to die from coming into contact with any kind of pine. Snakes hide in pine trees/under pine bark in the wild, so they have to have some tolerance to the oils.

the problem with pine is the phenols in the sap - its this that is toxic.
Out in the wild they're in a big open space and not in a tiny box with tiny vents in someones house where theres no escape from it.

cheers shaun