Baby Coastal Carpet Not Eating. Please Help

[SWDK]

Baby Coastal Carpet Not Eating...Need Help
Roughly 3 weeks ago I was given a baby Coastal Carpet. It was 3 weeks old when I got it. I got it from a friend of mine who just hatched a clutch. I asked if they were eating and he said he thinks so. He would throw a bunch of pinkie mice in the cage with all the babies and let them have at it. So there was no real way to tell who ate or not. Some were fatter and some were skinny. I picked a fatter one.

In the three weeks I've had the coastal it has not eaten on its own. I've tried live pinkie mice, frozen pinkie mice, live fuzzy mice, frozen fuzzy mice, live rat pup, frozen rat pup and still nothing at all.

I decided to force feed a small pinkie mouse becase I was in fear the snake might die.

Any suggestions on how to get this little guy to eat?

Here's some information about the setup. I have it in a 20g long aquarium, cypress mulch substrate, two cork bark hides (one on hot side and one on cool side), wooden skewers fixed together for higher up perch, uv light, small water bowl and ceramic heater. I tried an under the tank heater, but the snake never went to the warm side. Now that I have the ceramic heater the snake moves about the cage much more.

72-75 on the cool side, 93 directly under the heater, the wooden skewer area hovers around 85-87
*
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/6d8d4223.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/1cb23984.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/3b77dd03.jpg

[SWDK]

Bump...anyone?

[Gungirl]

Don't force feed a snake.. It can go loooong periods of time with no food. With a baby snake you need to offer 100% good husbandry and give it plenty of security. Offer food only once a week no more. The more often you offer food the more you will stress your snake out and the longer it will refuse food. I do not know husbandry on these guys so someone should chime in with help on that part.

[SWDK]

I only force fed because I thought it may die from not eating. This is my first new born snake and I don't know how long they can go without food.

[Terranaut]

Is this your first snake?
Has the snake shed yet?
Carpets are death from above hunters most of the time and perch to hunt. I don't feed mine until they display this behavior.
My JCPs shed after about 4 weeks and then have eaten weekly since. Just to let you know carpets even baby carpets can go a long time without food. Don't worry , carpets are very hardy.


I just saw the pic. Your hides are way to big. The snake should be snug in there. Use something smaller than a small juice glass. Hell a paper cup trimmed would work. Security = feeding.

[SWDK]

Some of your questions can be answered in original post and pics of the snake and enclosure.

This is not my first snake, but it is my first carpet and new born snake.

They have shed once, the day before I got it.

Is this your first snake?
Has the snake shed yet?
What are your temps?
Does the snake have stuff to climb on?
Carpets are death from above hunters most of the time and perch to hunt. I don't feed mine until they display this behavior.
My JCPs shed after about 4 weeks and then have eaten weekly since. Just to let you know carpets even baby carpets can go a long time without food. Don't worry , carpets are very hardy.

[snake man12]

Try putting a live pinkie on a tiny plate over night and in the morning check if it's gone. That is How I got my first boa to eat.

[Tekpc007]

not enough cover , you need something like leafy vines like the flukers 6 ft vines so it can feel safe moving around. tiny snakes like cover , the hides are ok but you need some thing more for it to hide on the sticks and on the ground imho. Temps seems a little high for a baby , mine liked it cooler . i never did get mine to eat so i gave it to someone else who had more experience than me. also try blow drying the pinky so its very warm , pinkies get cold and then the CP won't be very interested.

[snake man12]

How long has it been since you last feeding attempt?

[SWDK]

I can add more leafy cover.

The last time I offered food was on Tuesday. It was a f/t fuzzy mouse.

[millertime89]

Get a scale and monitor weight, only force feed if he's really started to lose weight. One member here went something like three months with his new baby carpet before it started eating regularly, Norm is his name, not sure on his screen name, his carpet is named Jerome.

[Norm66]

Jerome was almost a yearling when I got him though. And it was closer to 3 months.

I second weighing him and not assist or force feeding until he less significant weight. More cover and double check husbandry too.

[SWDK]

Thanks everyone! I had no clue a baby could go that long without eating. I went into panic mode for no reason at all. Boy do I feel stupid!!!!

[SWDK]

I'll ditch the larger hides. That explains why he only hides in the small PVC pipe.

[QUOTE
I just saw the pic. Your hides are way to big. The snake should be snug in there. Use something smaller than a small juice glass. Hell a paper cup trimmed would work. Security = feeding.[/QUOTE]

[Lankyrob]

Shuany had a baby carpet go TEN MONTHS from the egg without eating with no ill effects - relax, and only offer food every 7 days.

[SWDK]

Thanks. Next week I'll try to feed again with live food. I'm going to put it in right before the lights go out. He's definitely much more active at night.

[shaunyboy]

please do NOT force feed the snake again,imo all you will do is stress it out and stop it eating

3 weeks is NOTHING for a snake to go without eating,i've had a hatchling carpet not eat for 10 months,with no ill effects,so please try NOT to worry too much

i noticed you listed 6 DIFFERENT prey items,you've only had him 3 weeks ....

imo that's a little too many feeding attempts,for such a short period of time

let him settle in,give him peace and quiet,only going into his tank,to change his water roughly every 5 days...

offer a heated prey item to him every 7 days

your temperatures look good to me

give him time to settle in,also the force feeding,may have made him a little nervous/stressed,so don't worry if he takes a few weeks,before he starts to feed

i'm NOT being cheeky mate,the above is,just my thoughts on the wee guy

put some fake plants,,etc into his tank,this will give him more places to hide,then he will feel more secure,this will help stop him stressing out

i've found coastals to be very good feeders once they get started

please let us know how you get on

all the best shaun

[SWDK]

Thanks Shaunyboy!

[Gregg M]

I do not agree with some of the advice given. Hatchling snakes NEED to eat. Hatchlings can go down hill rapidly if they do not get their first meal in soon ater hatching. However, I do agree with not force feeding this early on in it not eating.

Baby carpets can be quite tricky to get feeding at times. What has worked well for me is tail tapping. What you do is use long hemostats to hold the mouse and you tap the carpets tail with the mouse. This will eventually trigger a strike. Usually once they have hold of the mouse, they will constrict and eat the mouse. Also, when using frozen/thawed, make sure the mouse is very warm. Small rodents have high body temps. The average body temperature for a living mouse is about 102 degrees f.

I would also try feeding more than just once a week. Basically, each week a hatchling snake goes without eating is a week closer to it being dead. The "stress" you may or most likey wont cause from offering food is nothing compared to it having no nuteients in its system.

[Lankyrob]

I do not agree with some of the advice given. Hatchling snakes NEED to eat. Hatchlings can go down hill rapidly if they do not get their first meal in soon ater hatching. However, I do agree with not force feeding this early on in it not eating.

Baby carpets can be quite tricky to get feeding at times. What has worked well for me is tail tapping. What you do is use long hemostats to hold the mouse and you tap the carpets tail with the mouse. This will eventually trigger a strike. Usually once they have hold of the mouse, they will constrict and eat the mouse. Also, when using frozen/thawed, make sure the mouse is very warm. Small rodents have high body temps. The average body temperature for a living mouse is about 102 degrees f.

I would also try feeding more than just once a week. Basically, each week a hatchling snake goes without eating is a week closer to it being dead. The "stress" you may or most likey wont cause from offering food is nothing compared to it having no nuteients in its system.


Surely sterssing the animal out constantly with food is more likely to turn it away from eating than enyhting else?? As shauny said he has had a snake from the egg go 10 months with no issues. Most snakes including babies in my experience go through a fast as some point in the year anyway.

To the OP - listen to Shauny, he has forgotten more about carpets than most people ever learn :)

[Gregg M]

Surely sterssing the animal out constantly with food is more likely to turn it away from eating than enyhting else??

What are you basing this on Rob? Your personal experience with hatchling carpet pythons that are problematic feeders or what you have heard?

[Lankyrob]

What are you basing this on Rob? Your personal experience with hatchling carpet pythons that are problematic feeders or what you have heard?

Based on readings from this forum and discussions with other keepers.

[shaunyboy]

when i gave my thoughts on feeding,i had NERVOUS feeders in mind....

i have come across 2 types of nervous behavior

1.hatchlings who will repeatedly,aggressively,strike,while all the time retreating,into a corner defensive position,TEASING them can sometimes illicit a feeding response

2.hatchlings who will,shy away completely,avoiding touching the prey at all costs,sometimes imo a look of fear in their eyes and body movements

i have found with,the more nervous of the 2.....

imo and personal experiences,its better to give them complete peace and quiet,imo this allows them ample time to explore and settle in,i've had nervous hatchlings ONLY come out their hides,when it was dark,it took until sub adult hood,for her them to come out during daylight hours

imo if the op puts some fake plants with leaves as cover,it will make the snake feel more secure

if it is a NERVOUS feeder then imo,offering it food,on too many occasions,over a short period of time,will only further stress it out,causing it to shy away from the prey even more

to the op
does your snake shy away/retreat from the prey item when offered ?

if so...
try lay feeding...

just as its getting dark,as quietly as possible,so you DON'T disturb the snake,use feeding tongs to lay the prey up the cool end of its tank,leave the snake alone overnight,then check in the morning to see if the prey has been taken

re braining
heat a frozen thawed prey item with a hair dryer,until its the same temperature to touch as live prey

then you pierce the skull 3 or 4 times,with a pair of scissors,until grey liquid/brain matter,seeps out the puncture holes

give the head another quick heat,then offer on feeding tongs,or put it into the tank,if your lay feeding,sometimes the smell of the brain juice,gets a feeding respons

re picture of your snake
your snake looks healthy and in proper proportion,i would NOT worry about his weight just yet

re hides
imo smaller hides would also benefit the snake,they preffer a nice tight fit,they seem to like to be able to,touch ALL the sides of the hide,at the same time

please let us know how it goes,and try NOT to worry too much,he's a coastal...

coastals have always had,the GREATEST appetites,out of ALL my carpets,i used them as dustbins for any unwanted prey,from my other carpets

cheers shaun

[jaleely]

I'll just chime in, since i'm so awesome.
My experience with carpets is limited to the one I own. She was extremely defensive as a baby. So alert, and always nervous. She would sometimes check prey out, but wouldn't strike...then other times strike right away.
She has a distinct feeding personality compared to the other animals I keep, and i find with her, i really have to pretend the food is alive...i'll wiggle it low...then i *will* perhaps bump her tail...witch makes her coil and begin to strike....then i drag the prey item away from her and she thinks it's getting away...and can't resist striking.
Works every single time, even if she's being fussy or frightened. She can't stand that it might get away from her *lol*
I do that with a couple other snakes sometimes, and it always gets them.
I only feed f/t.
I HAVE fed live pinkies, and fuzzies before. Making the behavior of the dead prety mimic the live has worked many times, and the one snake i had to do live with, i finally transitioned him to thawed by doing this just like the pinks and fuzzies he had been eating had done to him.

Anyway...what i'm trying to get at is that carpets can be very finicky, but also very intellegent. They are hard to trick sometimes...however most of them, when they are *ready* to eat...can be canjoled by appealing to their instincts...moreso than some other species.
For reference, here is my girl when i got her last year:
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n640/jaleely/snakes/IMG1484.jpg
Skinny! I freaked out, too. Was worried that such a small animal hadn't been eating! Persistance, patince, and i gave her a busy environment to explore and hide in to let her feel safe. (Skinny pvc pipes, branches, logs) At the time i had a heat lamp, as well. I put branches and pipe under it so she could sit in the branches (which she did, though if i came to look at her she'd slither off)
Eventually i made a maze of pipes that reached up to the lamp and she spent a lot of time basking in the pipe, under the lamp.
My little trick of luring her where she could see me move around the house and know eventually i wasn't a threat. I like to feel it helped.
Anyway...that was long but there ya go! : )

[SWDK]

Shaun, my snake is a very shy one. When I would offer prey it would hide its head or try to get away. It spends almost all of its time inside the 1" PVC pipe I have in there. It does kind if coil up in a ball so it's locked inside the pipe. I only ever see it out a few hours after dark. Tonight I went down to check on the laundry so I decided to peek on the snake. It was slithering around the cafe checking things out. I watched it for about 10 min with some very little ambient light from my cell phone. It was nice to see it moving about the cage. The large hides are out, but I did not put in ant greenery yet. Ill be getting it tomorrow on my lunch break. Tuesday will be 7 days since my last feeding attempt. I'm gong to put the prey in at night and see how it goes.

[Gregg M]

Based on readings from this forum and discussions with other keepers.

But not based on experience. Thats what I figured. My advice is based on experience. Maybe you should take a step back and learn instead of interjecticting yourself in a subject where you have no experience.

[Lankyrob]

But not based on experience. Thats what I figured. My advice is based on experience. Maybe you should take a step back and learn instead of interjecticting yourself in a subject where you have no experience.


Its an open forum and i will "interject" wherever i like.

[Tekpc007]

oops not my thread lol.

[SWDK]

Thanks jaleely! Very nice little carpet as well.

[Terranaut]

Wow so I have read most of this thread and once again I see a great thread getting personal with the same person driving the bus. I try to be respectful of everyones opinions but please lets stop comparing our manhoods and just help the OP out.

I have 2, 2 month old JCPs which are similar if not the same as coastals ( there is actually a debate about the 2 actually being to similar at the dna level to be seperate but thats another topic). My experience with them is this.

One eats one kinda eats. As said above I have a nervous striker and a hungry killer. The eater will reach right out of the tub to get the rat pinky and has grown quite a bit. The nervous guy strikes and drops the prey. I tried "leaving it where it fell" and he wouldn't eat it. Now I feed the hungry guy as per normal and sneek a small plate with the prey on it into the nervous guys tub. I slide it under him on his perch and close the lid. A few hours later I collect the plate. Carpets have a wide variety of feeding habits and what works for one may not work for another even if they have similar feeding responses. Experiment but be sure not "scare " the snake with the prey. This will just make it take longer to get him to eat. But he will eat. Never heard if anyones carpet refusing to eat until death but I have heard of many eating only a few times a year.
Good luck. Post your results please to add to the information.

[SWDK]

Thank you Terranaut! So far everyones advise seems to be working. Its taken to the smaller hides in the form of PVC pipes. He's definitely more active at night, almost seems to be completely nocturnal at this point. I'll keep at it, but not so much that I add more stress. I now know that this snake will eventually come around, but it will take some time and good snake care on my part.

[Terranaut]

Anytime :)

As your snake ages it's feeding habbits will become more predictable no matter which type of feeder it grows up to be. My adult carpets could not be more different from each other but 99% of the time are predictable for when they will eat and how they take the prey.
My female I am sure has never had live prey even though I got her at 3 yrs old. Why do I feel this way? She has only struck at 1 meal I have given her and it was her first rabbit. Frozen rats she just pulls out of the tongs and starts eating.
My male. Is total death from above and hammers the prey hard coiling it violently throwing his hide or water dish sometimes. Scares the crap out of people. Weird thing is he is my most docile snake.
Moral of the story is each carpet is unique. Each has its own personality. They can go crazy amounts of time without food as long as there is water. So take your time. Learn your snake. Feed your snake on its terms and you will both be very happy with each other :)

[SWDK]

My only other experience with carpets was a 2yr old jungle/coastal cross that my buddy had. It was out in its perch all the time and ate f/t rats no prob. I just thought this little guy would be sorta like his. Again, more ignorance on my part.

[SWDK]

I got some fake green leafy vines today. Hope this helps as well.

[SWDK]

I also got a fuzzy/hopper mouse. It's not quite a full hopper, buts it's larger and more active than a fuzzy. I know I said if try feeding on Tuesday, but the only pet shop that had live was a 20 mile drive one way. So to save on gas I went there right after work since I'm closer.

[MoreliAddict]

I also got a fuzzy/hopper mouse. It's not quite a full hopper, buts it's larger and more active than a fuzzy. I know I said if try feeding on Tuesday, but the only pet shop that had live was a 20 mile drive one way. So to save on gas I went there right after work since I'm closer.
Only offer that snake rats, NEVER MICE. Carpets can get hooked on mice and start to refuse to eat rats, this presents a huge problem for feeding an adult carpet, unless you like the idea of offering it like 15 mice a week.

[SWDK]

Only offer that snake rats, NEVER MICE. Carpets can get hooked on mice and start to refuse to eat rats, this presents a huge problem for feeding an adult carpet, unless you like the idea of offering it like 15 mice a week.

I am very well aware that it should eat rats and that it can be quite hard to switch over. At this point I'm only trying to get it to eat in its own. Not sure if you read over this thread from the beginning, but I'm only following the advise that was given to me. Thanks for your input.

[MoreliAddict]

Not sure if you read over this thread from the beginning, but I'm only following the advise that was given to me. Thanks for your input.
You're welcome, just trying to help you and look out for the snake.

Who said you should feed it mice instead of rats? (not trying to be difficult, but that's inadvisable imo)...

[SWDK]

You're welcome, just trying to help you and look out for the snake.

Who said you should feed it mice instead of rats? (not trying to be difficult, but that's inadvisable imo)...

Oops...sorry moreliaddict. The advise of a hopper wasn't in this thread or even in this forum. Before I found this forum I posted the same question on faunaclassified in their carpet section. It was a moderator who told me to use a hopper because it's more active and more likely to gets the snakes attention and feeding response going.

[SWDK]

Here's the link to my thread there so you can see what the moderator told me.

Baby Coastal Carpet Not Eating...Need Help - FaunaClassifieds (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333367)

[MoreliAddict]

It would help if you knew what the snake ate originially, a rat or a mouse.

If it had eaten a mouse in the first place, maybe we'd get to a point where I'd say "okay, you need to give the snake what it wants, it's starting to look unhealthy and some carpets just won't break the mouse habbit"

BUT, since he wont eat either way, it's really best you just offer rats, so, when it DOES eat, you won't have a snake that will be stubborn and refuse rats. (hint: we already know this snake could be a tough feeder). Trust me, once this snake gets a little size to him, you'll much rather feed one nice rat every couple of weeks than 10+ mice in a single sitting. The mouse thing is alot more expensive too.

I ONLY will buy a carpet that is taking f/t rats, so mice for me is out of the question, just so you know where I'm coming from...

[SWDK]

Thanks again for your help. My friend who hatched them only fed them pinky mice. He hatched 8 total (5f and 3m). He kept all 8 in a 10g aquarium and would throw in 8 pinky mice at once. He never paid attention to what snaked ate or not. He told me that for the two times he fed all the pinkies were gone. IMO that was very stupid of him to feed like that. Like I said, I picked a fatter one thinking it may have been eating.

[MoreliAddict]

Thanks again for your help. My friend who hatched them only fed them pinky mice. He hatched 8 total (5f and 3m). He kept all 8 in a 10g aquarium and would throw in 8 pinky mice at once. He never paid attention to what snaked ate or not. He told me that for the two times he fed all the pinkies were gone. IMO that was very stupid of him to feed like that. Like I said, I picked a fatter one thinking it may have been eating.
That was stupid for a couple reasons:

You don't know which snakes are eating
The snakes who ate are "on" mice


Good luck with whatever you decide to try next. When it gets hungry enough, it will eat for you. Once it does, hopefully it's RAT but if it isn't, we'll help you switch it over to rats when you're ready :). But I really urge you not to give up on trying to get that snake to take a rat.

Keep in mind, there are decent size carpets who have excellent feeding responses but will still be repulsed by anything rat. I know I'm getting repetitive, but this is a common, headache of an issue. I just stress it over and over again because it's completely avoidable.

[SWDK]

We will see what happens tonight. As much as I don't want it stuck on mice, I'd still like to know it eats on its own.

I'll use rat pups from now on and hopefully things will work out.

[MoreliAddict]

That's very understandable, good luck!

[SWDK]

Thank you!

[Terranaut]

Hold out for the rat. Its well worth it!!

[SWDK]

Too late. The lights went out at 7:00. I put the hopper in 15 min ago. I'm not home now so it's up to the snake now.

[SWDK]

Do you think it can eat a fuzzy/crawler rat?

[SWDK]

I just got home and the hopper is gone. I'm so relieved it finally ate on its own. Next time I'll try denting a rat pup with a mouse. I have frozen hoppers and I can cut them open and rub on the rat pup.

[shaunyboy]

Do you think it can eat a fuzzy/crawler rat?

it will take a rat pinkie with no problems

DON'T be alarmed if the poop comes out runny/watery,as theres NOT much goodness in pinks and they tend to cause watery poop

i'm chuffed she ate for you mate

i would NOT handle her until she's ate 4 or 5 feeds in a row

cheers shaun

[SWDK]

Thanks Shaun! I'm super pumped he ate. Thanks for your help

[SWDK]

Now, I'm going to need some advise on the proper way to switch over to rats. Should I offer the rat at night and see what happens? I have frozen mice that I can sent with if need be.

[MoreliAddict]

Now, I'm going to need some advise on the proper way to switch over to rats. Should I offer the rat at night and see what happens? I have frozen mice that I can sent with if need be.
Coastals are usually not too picky.

Try to offer it a rat similar size to the the mouse it took for you. If it still refuses rats after a couple weeks, there's a bunch of things you can try, including:

Scenting the rat with mouse smell (rub a mouse all over the rat you're about to offer)
Put chicken broth on the rat
"brain" the rat (I'll leave this one for Shauny to describe)


The older the carpet, the harder it is to switch over. Once it takes it's first rat willingly, it's usually mission accomplished.

Shaun will have some interesting methods to contribute to this, including sewing chick heads onto rat bodies. :)

Shaun??

[Wildside]

Now, I'm going to need some advise on the proper way to switch over to rats. Should I offer the rat at night and see what happens? I have frozen mice that I can sent with if need be.

If she's only eaten one mouse previously just offer the rat.

[SWDK]

The little fella is looking good. Still has a nice bulge showing from the feeding monday night. He only comes out at night about 45-1hr after the lights go out. Seems to enjoy the leafy perch area much more now.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/3c5ce16e.jpg

[Terranaut]

Excelent. He looks great.

[SWDK]

Thanks Terranaut!

[shaunyboy]

I just got home and the hopper is gone. I'm so relieved it finally ate on its own. Next time I'll try denting a rat pup with a mouse. I have frozen hoppers and I can cut them open and rub on the rat pup.

re braining

heat the thawed rat pup with a hair dryer,until it feels the same temperature as a live rat

puncture the skull 2 or 3 times with a pair of scissors,until grey liquid seeps out,the puncture holes

give the rats head an extra heat

then offer to your snake

re scenting
heat a mouse and a rat

burst the mouse open,and smear the rat with,mouse blood and guts

give the rat another quick heat

then offer to your snake

re chicken broth
i DON'T use that method

imo there is salt and other ingredients in soup,that may NOT be good for your snake

the MAIN thing is,that you do NOT give in and offer mice ever again

be patient,as it can take a few weeks,even months to get them onto rats

cheers shaun

[SWDK]

Thanks Shaun! I'll be picking up rats on Saturday at the reptile show. Would you suggest I feed again on Monday night (7 days since last feeding) or wait a little longer so it's good and hungry? Not sure if that would help make the switch any easier?

[shaunyboy]

Thanks Shaun! I'll be picking up rats on Saturday at the reptile show. Would you suggest I feed again on Monday night (7 days since last feeding) or wait a little longer so it's good and hungry? Not sure if that would help make the switch any easier?

i'd give him a try,as i feed all my hatchlings,once every 7 days

please let us know how you get on mate

cheers shaun

[SWDK]

Will do my friend. I'll let you know how it goes.

[SWDK]

i'd give him a try,as i feed all my hatchlings,once every 7 days

please let us know how you get on mate

cheers shaun

This morning I went to check on the cages as usual. To my surprise the coastal was out in the daytime coiled up in fake vines and looking ready strike. I went up and thawed out a frozen rat fuzzy. I then sented it with mouse pinky brains. I offered it with a the hemoststs and he hammered it!!! It was really cool to watch him eat upside down.

[Terranaut]

Awsome. Good news. The upsidedown thing never gets old. Watching my big female do it with big rats is just as cool as my little ones doing pinkys. Glad its working out.

[MoreliAddict]

Awesome, you're all set. Now it's rats for life.

Enjoy your Carpet!

[SWDK]

Thanks everyone for your help!!

[SWDK]

He's out again today for the 2nd day in a row. He's currently having a good soak in his water bowl. I think he's really starting to get comfortable.

[SWDK]

Rat #2 down with no problems. This time it was not sented with a mouse.

[Terranaut]

That's great news!!

[SWDK]

That's great news!!

It sure is. He's growing like a weed. I'm sure he'll be shedding soon enough.