Savannah Vomitting.

[desert_savage]

I've been fostering a friend's Savannah for a few months now and all has been well until this week. Yesterday I heard a few sneezes and a strange whine sound, and when I went to check on him I saw what I thought was an extremely watery BM. I he seemed fine otherwise so I fed him as per usual, he scarfed his meal down (ground turkey), and resumed wandering around his tank for a bit before he went in his log and went to sleep.

As on this morning I checked his tank and he's thrown up in several spots in his tank. First off obviously I need to get the mess cleaned up before he tries to consume it, and secondly I'm thinking constipation. I've looked around his tank and I don't see any evidence of a BM from his previous meal. I don't have the money to take him to the vet (I'm between jobs and actually going for an interview in about two hours), so I'm wondering what course of action if any I can take to solve this problem before it gets any further.

Regards,
Chris

[MoreliAddict]

Pretty sure monitors eat invertebrates, not turkey. We have some monitor experts on this site so we'll see...

Here's a great caresheet:

Savannah Monitors (http://www.savannahmonitor.co/)

[infernalis]

Ground turkey is bad, bad.. bad.

These animals need whole prey, meaning guts, bones and all. Ground meat lacks the nutrients.

Secondly we really need to know what conditions the lizard are being kept at, Temperatures of the coldest spot in the cage and the temperature of the basking spot.

Also need to know the humidity reading inside the enclosure, what are you using for an enclosure and how much dirt is in the bottom of the enclosure??

Vomiting is not a good sign, it's cause for real concern actually, because when my last sav started puking, he was dead 2 days later.

At the bottom of my post is a link to savannahmonitor.co, please read that site over and see if your conditions are anything close to the published information there.

[desert_savage]

Ground turkey is bad, bad.. bad.

These animals need whole prey, meaning guts, bones and all. Ground meat lacks the nutrients.

Secondly we really need to know what conditions the lizard are being kept at, Temperatures of the coldest spot in the cage and the temperature of the basking spot.

Also need to know the humidity reading inside the enclosure, what are you using for an enclosure and how much dirt is in the bottom of the enclosure??

Vomiting is not a good sign, it's cause for real concern actually, because when my last sav started puking, he was dead 2 days later.

At the bottom of my post is a link to savannahmonitor.co, please read that site over and see if your conditions are anything close to the published information there.


I already know my conditions are less than ideal, essentially his owner has him in a roughly 3'x2'x2' standard terrarium (think iguanas at the pet store), temps are unknown because she doesn't have a temp gun and my budget leaves no room for picking up extras for him, humidity is questionable, I live in Oceanside California and ambient humidity down here is usually 50-70% (down to 56% today) this summer so I assume between that and frequent misting his humidity should be around or above ambient even with lights. His substrate is that dirt and wood crap people use as garden filler and at it's deepest point it's probably 6".

The reality of it is my friend got him as a rescue, before she could really set up a proper home for him her sister(whom she shares a house with) got engaged and turned into bridezilla leaving her unable to keep Monty until after the wedding and the extraction of bridezilla. I offered a shelf for his tank to sit on while they sorted all this out and to feed him.

[infernalis]

That is sad.. I wish I could wave a magic wand, but without proper husbandry, that lizard is doomed.

[varanus_mad]

Seal up all the vents.

Thatll help prevent the little guy from dehydrating scrap the turkey mince or offal or out similar...

Mice, rats, fish, whatever so long as Wayne says its got its guts in and bones brains...

Of course there is a real chance its organs are already naffed and the damage is done.

if you cant get a temp gun assuming you have a digital thermometer id aim for 80f cool end 90f got end and a basking spot temp of 120 - 125f

[crocdoc]

The reality of it is my friend got him as a rescue.

You mean your friend got him as a cheap pet, not a rescue. A rescue is when you take an animal from poor conditions and put them into better conditions.

It sounds to me like the monitor doesn't have access to enough heat. Without a hot enough basking spot, they can't metabolise their meals properly and start regurgitating. It usually happens when the meal is something tricky to digest - for example, an adult rat. Rats have thick skin which takes a while for the stomach acids to digest if the monitor isn't hot enough, so by the time the acids get through the rat has already bloated with gas from decomposition and the monitor may regurgitate it. When a monitor starts regurgitating ground turkey, which is like pablum/baby food for monitors when it comes to digestion, you're in real trouble.

Sort out that animal's husbandry as soon as possible. Get a temperature gun or some other means to find out what the temperatures are, give it a hot basking spot, seal the vents so it has more humidity etc.

[alessia55]

You can get a temperature gun for as little as $15-20 on amazon.com. A good instrument that both you and your friend should want to invest in, since it could help save the monitor's life.

[desert_savage]

You mean your friend got him as a cheap pet, not a rescue. A rescue is when you take an animal from poor conditions and put them into better conditions.

It sounds to me like the monitor doesn't have access to enough heat. Without a hot enough basking spot, they can't metabolise their meals properly and start regurgitating. It usually happens when the meal is something tricky to digest - for example, an adult rat. Rats have thick skin which takes a while for the stomach acids to digest if the monitor isn't hot enough, so by the time the acids get through the rat has already bloated with gas from decomposition and the monitor may regurgitate it. When a monitor starts regurgitating ground turkey, which is like pablum/baby food for monitors when it comes to digestion, you're in real trouble.

Sort out that animal's husbandry as soon as possible. Get a temperature gun or some other means to find out what the temperatures are, give it a hot basking spot, seal the vents so it has more humidity etc.

As far as I know that was her intent, she was originally talking about building something for him in the spare room.

I'll see what I can do with a temp gun, there's a Harbor Freight not too far away and I've been keeping a dense blanket on top of the mesh to keep heat and moisture in. I'm just waiting to hear back from my local herp shop to see who in my area is a decent herp vet and we'll go from there. I don't want to see Monty suffer and I really don't want to see him die due to poor conditions, but I don't have the money for huge vet bills if it's something that's going to require surgery.

[infernalis]

As far as I know that was her intent, she was originally talking about building something for him in the spare room.

I'll see what I can do with a temp gun, there's a Harbor Freight not too far away and I've been keeping a dense blanket on top of the mesh to keep heat and moisture in. I'm just waiting to hear back from my local herp shop to see who in my area is a decent herp vet and we'll go from there. I don't want to see Monty suffer and I really don't want to see him die due to poor conditions, but I don't have the money for huge vet bills if it's something that's going to require surgery.


That is the wonderful thing about monitors, if you get it nice and toasty it will begin to "heal" very quickly.

I hate to say it, but 90% or more of the veterinarians out there do not know as much about Varanids as they do dogs and cats.

Even an "exotics" vet has very little training in Monitor lizards, so there is a strong chance (more like a strong likelihood) that the vet will misdiagnose or just give Baytril without any real understanding about what is wrong.

So before you fork over $100 to a vet, I would use that same money on correcting the animal's environment.

[desert_savage]

That is the wonderful thing about monitors, if you get it nice and toasty it will begin to "heal" very quickly.

I hate to say it, but 90% or more of the veterinarians out there do not know as much about Varanids as they do dogs and cats.

Even an "exotics" vet has very little training in Monitor lizards, so there is a strong chance (more like a strong likelihood) that the vet will misdiagnose or just give Baytril without any real understanding about what is wrong.

So before you fork over $100 to a vet, I would use that same money on correcting the animal's environment.

Alright, in that case I'm going to snag a temp gun in the morning and some new substrate and see if I can find an affordable barometer for his tank at LLL Reptiles. Would you recommend holding off on feeding for a bit or should I just go ahead and snag some roaches/mice while I'm out and feed him tomorrow?

[infernalis]

I would hold off on feeding for a couple days, Let his system clear out.

You can get a decent Hygrometer at Wal Mart for about $12...

http://www.chompersite.com/LF/again.jpg

You can set the probe on the basking spot and set the unit on the other end of the cage, it will tell you the basking temp (outside) and the ambient temps (inside) as well as the humidity.

Don't leave it in there with the monitor. These lizards are curious and it would probably get ruined if left in reach of the lizard..

I mounted mine up high on the enclosure wall.

[desert_savage]

I would hold off on feeding for a couple days, Let his system clear out.

You can get a decent Hygrometer at Wal Mart for about $12...


You can set the probe on the basking spot and set the unit on the other end of the cage, it will tell you the basking temp (outside) and the ambient temps (inside) as well as the humidity.

Don't leave it in there with the monitor. These lizards are curious and it would probably get ruined if left in reach of the lizard..

I mounted mine up high on the enclosure wall.

Good info, thank you. He is a prime example of their curious nature, he spent a good 10min intently watching me vacuum this evening before he wandered back to his log so I definitely wouldn't dare leaving anything in his tank. That just leaves finding a new choice of substrate.

[infernalis]

Good old fashion dirt.. best substrate ever, They dig like gophers, so they need dirt to tunnel in.

This is also an essential health issue, They thermo regulate and maintain hydration with burrows.

http://www.varanus.us/SitePic/burrow.jpg

http://www.varanid.us/july/pipe2.jpg

This hole on the surface is quite small, I set the cam on macro and shined a flashlight down the hole to get these.

http://www.varanid.us/LF/hole.jpg


http://www.varanid.us/LF/hole1.jpg

The tunnels connect and I can often hear them hissing down under the surface.

[desert_savage]

Good old fashion dirt.. best substrate ever, They dig like gophers, so they need dirt to tunnel in.

This is also an essential health issue, They thermo regulate and maintain hydration with burrows.

This hole on the surface is quite small, I set the cam on macro and shined a flashlight down the hole to get these.

The tunnels connect and I can often hear them hissing down under the surface.

I've heard of some people doing soil+sand mixtures to make "dirt" for their enclosures, what is your dirt of choice? I can only assume when you say dirt you don't actually mean dirt from the local field (risk of chemical and parasite exposure) and sand wont hold a burrow on it's own, so I'm at a loss.

[infernalis]

I harvested my dirt from a creek bank.

If you must buy dirt, purchase untreated topsoil, mix in a little sand and you are good to go.

http://www.chompersite.com/cage_files/dirt.jpg

[desert_savage]

I harvested my dirt from a creek bank.

If you must buy dirt, purchase untreated topsoil, mix in a little sand and you are good to go.

http://www.chompersite.com/cage_files/dirt.jpg

Unfortunately in California the idea of safe dirt is a lost concept, most developed areas are close to businesses and the like so you can never know for sure what's in the soil. I'll have to grab a tub and some sand and soil and mix it up. He's looking much better today so I'm guessing throwing the extra lamp on all night last night brought the temp up to somewhere he's happier.

[infernalis]

Yes, they do like it hot....

[desert_savage]

Yes, they do like it hot....

So I'm aware, I was apparently under the faulty assumption that I had it hot enough, but really without an accurate means of measuring the temp that was a foolish assumption.

[infernalis]

So I'm aware, I was apparently under the faulty assumption that I had it hot enough, but really without an accurate means of measuring the temp that was a foolish assumption.

Wait till you see the changes in behaviour..

I mistakenly kept my first sav at less than optimal temps, He was always so "mellow" (later learned Lethargic was more accurate)

This time around I have been keeping tight control over the environment of the enclosure, these two are on meth compared to the last one.

[crocdoc]

...these two are on meth compared to the last one.

Lol. Love it. I'm always telling people that the difference between monitors kept sub-optimally and those that have access to adequate basking temperatures is that the latter look as though they are on speed.

[infernalis]

Lol. Love it. I'm always telling people that the difference between monitors kept sub-optimally and those that have access to adequate basking temperatures is that the latter look as though they are on speed.


Someone recently commented on one of my videos that they never knew Savs could jump so high...

Amazing what proper husbandry can do.

[DiscoPat]

Yeah, I was feeding steve a pinky the other day, I had to lure him out of his burrow but after he realized that it was food he bolted all the way across the cage and jumped to get it, he got it off the tongs much before I expected him to.

[desert_savage]

My closest hardware store had crap for soil selection so I picked up burrowing soil from my local herp supply store, as it turned out 40lbs of burrowing soil basically filled one corner of his tank so I'm going to have to go track down a bigger/better soil supply on payday to fill out the rest of his tank. Having trouble getting his temps up where I want them, but according to the temp/humidity gauges we're keeping a consistent 60-70% and the temp hasn't dropped under 100* after some adjusting. His activity level has changed completely and after giving him a few days for his system to settle I tossed a few 1"/1.25" roaches in there and he bolted them down and after investigating his tank end to end a dozen times to see if there were anymore he's settled down and he's basking. No sign of vomiting or discomfort.

[infernalis]

. No sign of vomiting or discomfort.


This is good news.

[varanus_mad]

My closest hardware store had crap for soil selection so I picked up burrowing soil from my local herp supply store, as it turned out 40lbs of burrowing soil basically filled one corner of his tank so I'm going to have to go track down a bigger/better soil supply on payday to fill out the rest of his tank. Having trouble getting his temps up where I want them, but according to the temp/humidity gauges we're keeping a consistent 60-70% and the temp hasn't dropped under 100* after some adjusting. His activity level has changed completely and after giving him a few days for his system to settle I tossed a few 1"/1.25" roaches in there and he bolted them down and after investigating his tank end to end a dozen times to see if there were anymore he's settled down and he's basking. No sign of vomiting or discomfort.


Google it... find a company that delivers it by the ton... over here its around £60 a ton.

[desert_savage]

Google it... find a company that delivers it by the ton... over here its around £60 a ton.

Well I think by the ton might be a little excessive, I figure the tank needs roughly another hundred pounds or so to fill out. I wouldn't know where to store the other 1900lbs in an apartment.

[jarich]

I suppose the difficulty is that it seems likely your friend will not know where to put it either, and that is the amount of soil a sav requires. I really do wish I had better news for you, but these animals require a huge amount of space, dirt, time and money, to name a few things. If your friend hasnt been able to provide those things yet, its unlikely she will be able to in the future. Im really not trying to be mean about it, its just that many people take these animals in without knowing the extent of what it takes to keep them healthy. Monitors are not like other lizards. It might be time to think of a back up plan.;)

[DiscoPat]

I took one in without knowing any real ways to take care of them, I thought I knew because I read a book and several care sheets as well as found many websites, unfortunately this was not one of them.

I started him in a 4x2x2 enclosure with a 150W bulb and reptile carpet, even at this time I knew he would get huge and need at least an 8x4x4 which I planned on building once the lease is up on my smallish apartment now (the end of august) he seemed normal to me then, very calm. I now know he was probably very sick. The next day I found an amazing book titled "The Truth About Varanus Exanthematicus." It informed me about how they need dirt, humidity and the ability to burrow. So I went out and got 3 bags of topsoil and 2 bags of playsand. mixed them up and filled his enclosure, this made it about 6 or so inches deep, I also wet the dirt with spray bottle so it would have humidity, He almost immediately seemed more active with the dirt.



A day later he was sitting in his water bowl a lot so I decided to search google and I found this website, where people seemed to know what they are doing.
I posted my conditions, thinking they were good but not the best, A 150W bulb still and a screen top cage.
I was told that they do this when there is not enough humidity and that the screen top had to go as did the bulb because it was drying up the air, Wayne recommended a piece of plywood as a temporary fix. And to get a cluster of lower watt bulbs so they don't dry up humidity. After all this he became way more active and started becoming more defensive to being touched. Which is a good thing, I was told it is a sign that he is in better conditions.

Since then I raised his basking spot closer to the bulbs by putting more dirt/sand in one side to make kind of a bank, raised the dirt up to about 9-12 inches on one side and 7-8 on the other. I planted grass on the lower side and put moss around his water bowls to keep humidity better.

I feel I have the best conditions currently possible for me and in august I am going to be building him a 10x5x4 or a 12x6x4 depending on the size of the garage that is in the house. insulated on all sides and based on Wayne's cage blog with a little adjustments.

I got my first paycheck last Wednesday so I did all of this while basically being poor so it doesn't take too much money, and in my opinion it will most definitely be worth every penny. If you really commit yourself to it even if you started uninformed you can dig yourself out of the whole and you should try because in reality that lizard would be way worse off in almost any pet store because most have absolutely no idea what they are doing/selling, and just being on this forum and listening to the people here, especially Wayne, you will be more informed than someone else who would probably buy the lizard.

tl;dr
If you commit to making a good environment for the lizard and make your friend do the same you can save it and give it a good life. Also if I can do this as a broke college student then most people who try should be able to do this.

Then again I may find it easier to commit to spending a lot of money on my savannah monitor and making sure he has the best conditions I can provide because I have loved reptiles, especially lizards, ever since I can remember. But since you/your friend already have one you are kinda obligated to provide the best conditions you can.

[desert_savage]

infernalis I have a question/concern. He's vastly more active, he's eating readily and aggressively, he hasn't vomited since the incident that I reported, but I still haven't seen a BM from him this week. He had 5 1-1.25" roaches on the night I mentioned them above, and last night seeing as my herp store was closed I picked up 20 large crickets which he went through in minutes. Is there anything I can do/give him that would help/encourage him to have a BM? I know some animals can be given a small amount of olive oil or mineral oil in their food to aid in passing things through, I was wondering if there was something I could do or give him to have the same laxative effect.

[infernalis]

Please don't.. After all the vomiting, your lizard is just now getting it's digestive tract "replenished"

You can expect a poop sometime soon enough.

Remember, the food has to stay down to pass out the other end.

Sometimes they hide their poop too, mine go along the back wall of their pen.

[DiscoPat]

I rarely see Steve's. Unless it is in one of the water bowls which I change every day.

[desert_savage]

Good to know, that's why I figured I'd come here and ask. I'm going to stop by Home Depot and load up on sand and soil this week to finish out his tank and see if I can get to my herp store and grab him some more roaches before they close. He's eating readily and enthusiastically so I'm curious as to feeding schedule and quantities. He's about 28" long and fairly stout so I'm trying to make sure he's neither starved nor gorged.

[desert_savage]

Also my fiance pointed out that when she was home with him all day he didn't move from his log that he sleeps under and he basically slept all day, since I've been home he's poked his head out and watched me a bit, and then returned to his log. Any thoughts?

Honestly I've read a lot of the material you guys have recommended, but I feel there's no better source than directly questioning people who live with and care for these animals actively rather than scrolling through pages trying to interpret.

[infernalis]

current temps??

[desert_savage]

97 on the cool side and right about 100 on the "hot" side. I haven't been able to get the temps above 100-105, still trying to figure something out to get his temps up until I can get his substrate raised and his top sealed better.

[infernalis]

Can you sit a piece of plywood over the top??

Many times, if you can stop the warm air from rising out of the cage, it will go up several degrees without doing anything else.

[desert_savage]

Can you sit a piece of plywood over the top??

Many times, if you can stop the warm air from rising out of the cage, it will go up several degrees without doing anything else.

That then leaves me to the question of heating (which I really need to put more research into). I've got two heat lamps on top of the screen and under the blanket that covers his tank. I can probably get a piece of 1/4" plywood and cut it to fit, in this scenario I would cut two ports into said plywood to allow light/heat through to continue heating his tank, but is there a better route to go in the mean time while I'm waiting for a few paychecks to come in?

[infernalis]

Salvage the plywood, people throw small pieces away all the time.

[desert_savage]

I would but I fear the risk, you never know what that wood may have been exposed to. That and in a beach town like this you don't have a lot of little neighborhoods where people just toss (useable) things out. I just don't want to bring some parasite or pesticide ridden piece of lumber home to Monty.

[desert_savage]

What kind of feeding schedules do you guys use and how do you determine feeding quantity?

[infernalis]

I feed my babies every day, an adult I would feed 3 times a week, with some earthworms as snacks in between.

[desert_savage]

I feed my babies every day, an adult I would feed 3 times a week, with some earthworms as snacks in between.

And what about quantity? I figured I'd stop and pick up some more roaches for him Thursday after I finish removing the last of the bark and finish out his sand, I'm just torn as to quantity. 10 roaches seemed like a lot, until I saw him bolt 5 down and then stare at me with that excited/hungry smile followed by digging around in his substrate and pacing the tank. I'm torn between 10 and 15 next round.

[infernalis]

A whole pile of roaches will hardly satiate a Savannah Monitor.

But, by not feeding until full, you are essentially putting the lizard on a diet, and considering what it's been through, a diet is good for it.

So I take it that food stays down now?

[Jay]

Try raising the basking area to the heat source.

[infernalis]

Try raising the basking area to the heat source.

That was already done. ;)

[jarich]

Did we already hear how old/big this one is? It will make it easier to give you an idea of how much to feed.

[desert_savage]

A whole pile of roaches will hardly satiate a Savannah Monitor.

But, by not feeding until full, you are essentially putting the lizard on a diet, and considering what it's been through, a diet is good for it.

So I take it that food stays down now?

His last two meals have stayed down, he hasn't shown any signs of discomfort, and his energy level and enthusiasm when feeding is off the charts compared to previous feedings.

[desert_savage]

Did we already hear how old/big this one is? It will make it easier to give you an idea of how much to feed.

Last time I measured him he was roughly 28" long, that was a few weeks ago though. I'll measure him when I pull him out for tank work and feeding Thursday.

[jarich]

Oh so he is pretty big already, Im guessing that would make him somewhere around two years old (Im guessing he is a little smaller than normal based on past poor husbandry) In that case I would say, yes probably three times a week. Once you get that basking spot up to 130 or more, then I would think he should be able to handle normal size meals. Mine eats about 20-30 large roaches and 3 full sized crayfish in a feeding. I give him some earthworms, hornworms or snails on the off days as a snack.

[desert_savage]

Oh so he is pretty big already, Im guessing that would make him somewhere around two years old (Im guessing he is a little smaller than normal based on past poor husbandry) In that case I would say, yes probably three times a week. Once you get that basking spot up to 130 or more, then I would think he should be able to handle normal size meals. Mine eats about 20-30 large roaches and 3 full sized crayfish in a feeding. I give him some earthworms, hornworms or snails on the off days as a snack.

Hefty appetite, good to know thank you. I had another question, I noticed in the past that he's ingested the bark crap in his substrate a few times and now that I try to keep his feedings on the sand he ingest small amounts of sand in his aggression grabbing prey. At his size will this cause issues? I still haven't seen a BM from him and I've dug around his substrate so I'm concerned that the substrate he's ingested in the past is causing constipation.

[jarich]

It should not be an issue, no. Mine regularly ingests substrate with his favorite food, crayfish. I just toss them in all wet, so they sometimes get covered in dirt. There habit with eating is to crush things into the ground and grind them in to kill prey, so dirt is a pretty common thing to ingest. The problem I think would come from a dehydrated animal or an animal with too low a basking temp. Either one of those things would not allow the animals digestive system to function properly and could therefore lead to problems.

How are your basking temps and humidity?

[desert_savage]

It should not be an issue, no. Mine regularly ingests substrate with his favorite food, crayfish. I just toss them in all wet, so they sometimes get covered in dirt. There habit with eating is to crush things into the ground and grind them in to kill prey, so dirt is a pretty common thing to ingest. The problem I think would come from a dehydrated animal or an animal with too low a basking temp. Either one of those things would not allow the animals digestive system to function properly and could therefore lead to problems.

How are your basking temps and humidity?

His temps and humidity are still a little low, I'm hoping that the increase in substrate depth will help with both as well as our mod's recommendation of using plywood for a lid. As it stands temps are currently holding steady around 100* as previously noted, the biggest inconsistency is humidity, I moisten his tank and mist it daily, twice daily frequently, but during the course of my work day it goes from 80-90% humidity in the morning post misting and drops down to 60% or so by the time I get home. Again hoping that the plywood lid holds moisture better and solves this problem.

[desert_savage]

I dumped the burrowing clay out (mainly because 45lbs of it only filled one corner of his tank with a depth of probably 4" and rapidly solidified into a concrete like block) and dumped in two bags of top soil and a 50lb bag of play sand for a total substrate depth of about 1'-14" and cut and cleaned up a piece of 3/8 plywood to replace the screen top. Humidity seems to be holding, the glass is too steamed up to read the barometer and the glass is finally honestly warm to the touch from the exterior so I'm looking forward to seeing what the temps and humidity levels are like when I peak in in a few hours. He did finally have a BM btw in the tub while he was waiting for me to fill his tank and finish his lid.

[infernalis]

Things should look up from here.. good job.

[desert_savage]

Thank you, he initially seemed upset when I returned him to his tank, but I assume that's because his environment has changed several times over the last few weeks/month while trying to get his temps and humidity right. On a positive note after his initial hissy fit he did promptly burrow down to find his hiding log that I partially submerged in his soil. Now I'm just waiting to let him settle in a bit and then hoping to feed him tomorrow or the day after.

[Rogue628]

The only thing I know about savs is what I've learned from Wayne and a couple of other more experienced sav keepers. I know there's alot of misinformation about them. It's really great to see someone who really wants to give an animal of this magnitude the best possible environment get the right help they need and use those recommendations.

I guess I just wanted to say kudos to the OP for going to such lengths for an animal that's not exactly theirs and a big thanks to those that are helping the OP. It's really great to see some positive things happening here. :)

[desert_savage]

Well thank you for the kind words, and he may end up becoming mine fulltime at this rate. My friend that I've been caring for him for isn't sure she can keep up his care and recomping me for the money I've spent on him since taking him in would cost her a week's pay so I think at this point she's going to help me track down a larger enclosure or at least help fund the materials for me to build him a larger enclosure. A boy this size needs more than a little 36X16X24.