Reptile expo expansion [Archive] - sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum

Kettennatter

07-05-12, 11:28 AM

Never realized how hard it is to follow the subtitles when the audio is about something altogether different. ;)

Based on what I see at my local pet store it seems that ball pythons sell. (No matter that gorgeous corns are available at the same place.) Nevermind that I can pick up a "free" ball on Craigslist if I pay $75 for the setup. I don't claim to understand.

MoreliAddict

07-05-12, 11:40 AM

I agree. Too many ball pythons in general. Maybe it's just me, but I prefer animals that actually do stuff.
There's alot of ball pythons because of the demand. It may be just the overwhelming majority, but they prefer pets that don't bite...

hellosugaree

07-05-12, 12:58 PM

I remember the first time I went to a reptile show. I was all excited, expecting to see all kinds of cool stuff. I got there and within 5 minutes I was thinking "WTF is this? They should call this a ball python show."

Kettennatter

07-05-12, 01:23 PM

There's alot of ball pythons because of the demand. It may be just the overwhelming majority, but they prefer pets that don't bite...

Then, why do people keep on getting cats? If I had a ball python for each time I got clawed or bitten by a cat, I'd be at those expos for sure. ;)

StudentoReptile

07-05-12, 01:50 PM

Kettennatter

07-05-12, 06:13 PM

One thing I just realized today...one reason ball pythons are so stinkin' popular is because PARENTS like ball pythons. Think about it: most parents cringe at the thought of their child having a pet snake, but can be persuaded by the motionless sphere of scales that only a baby ball python be. How many pet store clerks have used the line, "See? It just sits there..." LOL, can't say that about most other snakes, can ya?

That's somewhat sad, but you might be onto something. Many people don't like the "slithering" aspect of a snake. It's easy to cup your hands and place that ball of a snake into it; very non-threatening.

P.S.: It also seems that every store clerk seems to recommend a BP as the first snake.

RandyRhoads

07-05-12, 06:34 PM

I pee'd a little. Where's Mykee :D

jaleely

07-05-12, 07:06 PM

that was pretty funny actually...lol too true, too.

hellosugaree

07-05-12, 08:24 PM

Where's Alessia?

StudentoReptile

07-05-12, 08:24 PM

That's somewhat sad, but you might be onto something. Many people don't like the "slithering" aspect of a snake. It's easy to cup your hands and place that ball of a snake into it; very non-threatening.

P.S.: It also seems that every store clerk seems to recommend a BP as the first snake.

...and why do you think that is? Might be because its an easy sale....who knows? Makes one wonder, though...

I'll be honest, back when I worked at my LPS, if I was trying to get someone to just HOLD a snake (not even to necessary sell one), the baby BP almost always won them over. Any other snake was too active, but I open up the BP cage, take one out and stick it in the kids hands, parents are like, "...Huh, well THAT's not so bad..."

Kettennatter

07-07-12, 05:06 AM

...and why do you think that is? Might be because its an easy sale....who knows? Makes one wonder, though...

I'll be honest, back when I worked at my LPS, if I was trying to get someone to just HOLD a snake (not even to necessary sell one), the baby BP almost always won them over. Any other snake was too active, but I open up the BP cage, take one out and stick it in the kids hands, parents are like, "...Huh, well THAT's not so bad..."

I think holding a snake is like test driving a car: The chances of purchasing an item after that go up tremendously. And a ball is not very intimidating to pick up.

Donnie

07-07-12, 05:38 AM

Great video, made me giggle and so true :)

exwizard

07-07-12, 07:36 AM

Yeah I think its hilarious as well. There were so many points made in this video that hit the nail on the head and thats why I thought it was so funny.

I know there are so many of BPs because people are buying them but I still say the supply far outnumbers the demand as high as it is. Why else can you get one for $20? Yeah Corns go for this price as well but IMO Corns are a much better snake.

There are people who prefer to work with BPs and Im ok with that. Its just not for me.

Jlassiter

07-12-12, 08:41 PM

There are a ton of people that work with BPs because they think they can make it rich following a recipe set forth by those before them.....

A lot of the newbie BP breeders know nothing about the snakes natural history or habitat, but they surely know exactly how to produce a mutant spinner blast caramel clown ball....lol

And hardly none of those $20k BPs are ever actually sold but they are traded for 200 amels, clowns and spiders that sell to newbs.....

I've been to many shows across the nation and I see tons of BPs......but the BPs on breeders tables are never hatchlings but usually 1 to 3 year old snakes.....to me that means they aren't selling that easily.....

I doubt the novelty will wear off soon....because in this day and age keepers do not want to learn for themselves.....they'd rather follow a cookie cutter recipe and be told exactly how to do things.......thank those pioneers that figured it all out and thank the Internet fir sharing it all.....

My two cents
They are a novelty snake that are great for beginners.......but one cannot get rich off something others have already gotten rich from......

Btw the video was hilarious.....

alessia55

07-12-12, 08:45 PM

LMAO Maybe I'm just WAY too tired and in a giggly mood, but I laughed all the way through that :laugh:

StudentoReptile

07-13-12, 08:10 AM

A lot of the newbie BP breeders know nothing about the snakes natural history or habitat, but they surely know exactly how to produce a mutant spinner blast caramel clown ball....lol

LOL...I remember an interview with Tom Crutchfield, where he said that during a conversation with another "breeder" he asked him if he even knew what countries ball pythons came from. The other fellow replied, "Africa." Tom was stupefied. He said, "Did you say Africa the country?"

Sadly, I have also witnessed this level of understanding regarding other common mainstream herps. Not only do many of these winners know jack squat about the animals they keep and breed, they also know frighteningly little about basic geography.

Aaron_S

07-13-12, 09:34 AM

....I doubt the novelty will wear off soon....because in this day and age keepers do not want to learn for themselves.....they'd rather follow a cookie cutter recipe and be told exactly how to do things.......thank those pioneers that figured it all out and thank the Internet fir sharing it all.....

The sad part is that those pioneers are never thanked. They should be. They made fricking rain chambers to first breed ball pythons!

Aaron_S

07-13-12, 09:35 AM

...I know there are so many of BPs because people are buying them but I still say the supply far outnumbers the demand as high as it is. Why else can you get one for $20? Yeah Corns go for this price as well but IMO Corns are a much better snake....

I can get corns for $3 bucks....

It is just your opinion that a corn is a better snake and that somehow justifies they're oversupply but not the ball python.

Both snakes have their merits and quite honestly, I recommend corns as first time snake owners.

StudentoReptile

07-13-12, 09:46 AM

Both snakes have their merits and quite honestly, I recommend corns as first time snake owners.

Ditto.

Hatchling corns are rather squirmy and young children (and their parents) are often turned off by that. But as far as husbandry, and feeding, they do not present as much difficulty as ball pythons do.

A lot of it goes back to the whole "glass tank" approach. Most of these "first time snake owners" start out going to the pet shop and can get almost the same exact set-up and advice for corns as they would for BPs from the pet shop staff. Everything they're told typically works for the cornsnake. They often run into issues with BPs (heat, humidity, non-feeding, stress, etc.).

THAT's why I always push them towards a colubrid.

Aaron_S

07-13-12, 09:49 AM

I would too. Cornsnakes just are bullet proof to anything really. Ball pythons are really close to it and I know that's part of the appeal but sometimes I wish they were a little more difficult to care/breed.

Kettennatter

07-13-12, 10:01 AM

Sometimes I also wonder if for the new snake owner it is also about bragging right: "Dude, I have a python at home!" It just doesn't sound the same if you substitute "python" for "corn snake".

There is only drawback to corns: You can never have just one corn. They are so much fun, are inexpensive, and are easy to keep. So, what's another one?

StudentoReptile

07-13-12, 10:13 AM

Sometimes I also wonder if for the new snake owner it is also about bragging right: "Dude, I have a python at home!" It just doesn't sound the same if you substitute "python" for "corn snake".

That could be part of it. Pythons are definitely more "exotic" both in appearance and by name.

But in my experience, that mentality is only a fraction of the new snake owners. Many are just looking for something easy and inexpensive. Then its just a matter of what feels right in their hands and what visually appeals to them. Some go for a CA kingsnake as opposed to a cornsnake. Some people like the squirmy active colubrid compared to the laidback boa or python.

There is only drawback to corns: You can never have just one corn. They are so much fun, are inexpensive, and are easy to keep. So, what's another one?

I think that can be said for a lot of species! Definitely ball pythons, leopard geckos, ratsnakes, etc. Its soooo not just a cornsnake thing!

Kettennatter

07-13-12, 10:28 AM

That could be part of it. Pythons are definitely more "exotic" both in appearance and by name.

But in my experience, that mentality is only a fraction of the new snake owners. Many are just looking for something easy and inexpensive. Then its just a matter of what feels right in their hands and what visually appeals to them. Some go for a CA kingsnake as opposed to a cornsnake. Some people like the squirmy active colubrid compared to the laidback boa or python.

A CA kings can be tricky because of their quirks or antics. Beautiful snakes, for sure. I don't think anybody recommended one when I was looking for my first snake.

I think that can be said for a lot of species! Definitely ball pythons, leopard geckos, ratsnakes, etc. Its soooo not just a cornsnake thing!

I'm not saying that other snakes are not addictive. But they are not as inexpensive and trouble-free as the corn (or rat snake, I give you that).

StudentoReptile

07-13-12, 10:45 AM

A CA kings can be tricky because of their quirks or antics. Beautiful snakes, for sure. I don't think anybody recommended one when I was looking for my first snake.

Other than their reputation for being aggressive feeders, what quirks or antics are you referring to? How is caring for a CA king (or desert, speckled, mexican black) any more difficult than corns?

I'll concur that prices may vary, but really in most situations, we're talking about differences of $10 or less.

[mind you, I'm not talking about greybands or anything that has issues converting to a rodent diet]

I'm not saying that other snakes are not addictive. But they are not as inexpensive and trouble-free as the corn (or rat snake, I give you that).

Those two factors together (inexpensive and trouble-free), its hard to beat a corn. But again, most kingsnakes are a close second.

mykee

07-13-12, 10:46 AM

I'm here, just saw the video, almost peed my pants, that was hy-larious!

".......but one cannot get rich off something others have already gotten rich from......"
That comment couldn't be farther from the truth.

Awesome thread, fun read.

Kettennatter

07-13-12, 11:05 AM

Other than their reputation for being aggressive feeders, what quirks or antics are you referring to? How is caring for a CA king (or desert, speckled, mexican black) any more difficult than corns?

I'll concur that prices may vary, but really in most situations, we're talking about differences of $10 or less.

[mind you, I'm not talking about greybands or anything that has issues converting to a rodent diet]

It starts with them being agressive feeders. On one hand it makes them very easy to feed, but you never know when (or what) they are trying to feed on next. The startle response of the kings I've held was also rather well developed. Chances of getting musked while holding them should be considered. Then there is just odd behavior. Mine absolutely loves to crap on me, even when roaming free. This is pretty hilarious on one hand, but the snake scares my wife to no end.

Those two factors together (inexpensive and trouble-free), its hard to beat a corn. But again, most kingsnakes are a close second.

From what I've seen, and my experience is limited, some kings may just be too much to handle for a beginner. (I personally love the entertainment factor.) They are easy to keep and very robust, I give you that.

StudentoReptile

07-13-12, 11:41 AM

It starts with them being agressive feeders. On one hand it makes them very easy to feed, but you never know when (or what) they are trying to feed on next. The startle response of the kings I've held was also rather well developed. Chances of getting musked while holding them should be considered. Then there is just odd behavior. Mine absolutely loves to crap on me, even when roaming free. This is pretty hilarious on one hand, but the snake scares my wife to no end.

From what I've seen, and my experience is limited, some kings may just be too much to handle for a beginner. (I personally love the entertainment factor.) They are easy to keep and very robust, I give you that.

I dunno...the crapping thing, I can pretty much attribute to almost any colubrid: western hogs, corns, kings, milks, garters, etc. Although in my experience, its mostly been with hatchlings or WC specimens. Subadult and adult kings that have been handled a little seem to grow out of it. But thats just me, I suppose.

I don't know about the "startled thing" but the strong feeding/aggression is really something I've only seen with CA kings. All the desert kings, speckled and easterns I've had were some of the calmest colubrids I've owned, although ironically, they get larger than the CA kings.

Kettennatter

07-13-12, 11:59 AM

I dunno...the crapping thing, I can pretty much attribute to almost any colubrid: western hogs, corns, kings, milks, garters, etc. Although in my experience, its mostly been with hatchlings or WC specimens. Subadult and adult kings that have been handled a little seem to grow out of it. But thats just me, I suppose.

I don't know about the "startled thing" but the strong feeding/aggression is really something I've only seen with CA kings. All the desert kings, speckled and easterns I've had were some of the calmest colubrids I've owned, although ironically, they get larger than the CA kings.

I got "my" king as a subadult. (My wife bought it, got scared, and it became mine my default.) None of my three corns crap on me. I guess it also has to do with the fact that king is very active. (It's a Yuma King, by the way.) Anything that will move into his enclosure will get struck, may it be hand, mouse, thermometer or cardboard box. Fortunately he tries to escape, so I simply grab him on his way out when I need to handle him.

I've handled the snake a lot, it was a whole lot of fun, simply because the snake was so active. At the stores the kings seemed rather active, also. I personally like that, but I'm not sure if everbody does.

I might try speckled and eastern, and see what they are like.

I

StudentoReptile

07-13-12, 12:15 PM

Jlassiter

07-13-12, 12:21 PM

Any getula (common kings) makes a great first snake......Very hardy and bulletproof.....
In my experience corns are harder to get feeding than any getula, but that is a problem for those of us that breed snakes not for those that just keep pet snakes.......

Mexican and Montane kings take a little finess & alot of experience to keep and breed and to get feeding....lol

The only BP I ever had went off feeding for months at a time......That was 17 years ago when there were no mainstream morphs.....I think I got mine for $12 and 3 years later it was a "black back"....LOL
I sold it for $100.......hahahahaha

Kettennatter

07-13-12, 01:15 PM

Yeah, I personally like the eastern L. getula sp over the western subspecies...except maybe the Mexican black (who doesn't like a jet black snake?). They just seem to be more laidback, especially compared to CA kings.

I have handled Mexican King Snakes before. They are gorgeous. Mine must have been lively one, but it was still rather young.

infernalis

07-13-12, 03:40 PM

One thing I just realized today...one reason ball pythons are so stinkin' popular is because PARENTS like ball pythons. Think about it: most parents cringe at the thought of their child having a pet snake, but can be persuaded by the motionless sphere of scales that only a baby ball python be. How many pet store clerks have used the line, "See? It just sits there..." LOL, can't say that about most other snakes, can ya?

This is exactly why Royal Pythons are not quite my cup of tea.

Give me a hyperactive, inquisitive and diurnal colubrid any day.

My black racer is a favourite... and I have only touched him with my hands 4 times in the 3 years that I have been caring for him.

I never have to check under his hide to see if he's still alive, he senses footsteps and will be pacing the cage looking for food.

Kettennatter

07-14-12, 02:13 PM

I got "my" king as a subadult. (My wife bought it, got scared, and it became mine my default.) None of my three corns crap on me. I guess it also has to do with the fact that king is very active. (It's a Yuma King, by the way.) Anything that will move into his enclosure will get struck, may it be hand, mouse, thermometer or cardboard box. Fortunately he tries to escape, so I simply grab him on his way out when I need to handle him.

The plot thickens: I found the original breeder. He kept the snake and hoped to find a female for it, but never did. The snake exhibited the same odd antics, but his wife made him give it up. After the Yuma King started swallowing her thumb, her disposition toward the snake changed.

I was wondering why I was able to pick up a subadult slightly uncommon king at a reasonable price. ;)